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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26772750 times)
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JayJuanGee
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July 29, 2016, 03:24:21 AM


Any news about wtf is going on with scaling?


This could hardly be a serious question.  Oh yeah, I forgot, it's fatty typing.  She wants to push buttons about non-issues.





Any thoughts on Bitcoins lacklustre performance lately?

Define "lately."  Oh, you mean the fact that bitcoin prices have been flat for about a month, you call that lackluster?   or are you talking about bitcoin prices floating in the $360 to $460 price territory for more than more than 4 months and then moving to the $600s, oh?  that kind of lack luster?

Or are you more selectively focusing on bitcoin prices going to the upper $700s and then retracing back to mid-$600s, so therefore that must be lackluster because the price should be going up further, rather than staying in a kind of flat zone?

Kind of vague points that you are making, no?  and without really a context?   

I would hardly characterize bitcoin's "lately" price performance as a kind of "lackluster," unless I was trying to plant some kind of ideas that bitcoin is broken?  Oh, maybe that is what fatty wants to suggest here?  Bitcoin is broken, oh?






Actually should figure that fatty would chime in with a bit of her white knighting.    Kiss

After that round of cornholing the only one who needs a white knight is you.


Probably, you need to refresh yourself on the definition of white knighting.  White knighting is when a little pussy like you comes in to defend someone who is well able to defend themselves, but instead, you feel some kind of social justice need to stand up for the poor lillie thingie.  You do frequently seem inclined in a kind of white knighting mode, and I suppose the Pseudo anonymous nature of this thread kind of enables you into such pussy practices.   Roll Eyes
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July 29, 2016, 03:31:20 AM


Any news about wtf is going on with scaling? Any thoughts on Bitcoins lacklustre performance lately?

https://bitcoinfees.21.co/

Scaling is so "bad" that in the last 24hr

125 txs were conducted with zero fees
48k txs were conducted with 1-10 satoshi /byte
11.5k txs were conducted with 11-20 satoshi /byte
19.5k txs were conducted with 21-30 satoshi /byte

If there was a capacity issue the above would be impossible at such dirt-cheap levels.

Furthermore, the attempt to pin "scaling" and "price" together has failed at levels like 200-300-400 etc when people were saying "oh it will never go beyond 200 because ...scaling".... and then the same at 300, 400, etc.


I didn't ask whether it was a problem. I'm asking how it's going with the solutions.

Of course the chain won't stay saturated forever. Nobody "needs" Bitcoin now.

When it doesn't work properly people stop using it.

Hence the price.

Have you noticed that what is happening is exactly what Gavin said was going to happen?


I just wanted to quote this. That is all
In other news, development of prosthetic wings for sharks is right on schedule
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July 29, 2016, 04:08:13 AM


Any news about wtf is going on with scaling? Any thoughts on Bitcoins lacklustre performance lately?

https://bitcoinfees.21.co/

Scaling is so "bad" that in the last 24hr

125 txs were conducted with zero fees
48k txs were conducted with 1-10 satoshi /byte
11.5k txs were conducted with 11-20 satoshi /byte
19.5k txs were conducted with 21-30 satoshi /byte

If there was a capacity issue the above would be impossible at such dirt-cheap levels.

Furthermore, the attempt to pin "scaling" and "price" together has failed at levels like 200-300-400 etc when people were saying "oh it will never go beyond 200 because ...scaling".... and then the same at 300, 400, etc.


I didn't ask whether it was a problem. I'm asking how it's going with the solutions.

Of course the chain won't stay saturated forever. Nobody "needs" Bitcoin now.

When it doesn't work properly people stop using it.

Hence the price.

Have you noticed that what is happening is exactly what Gavin said was going to happen?


Yeah, I noticed that you probably have been reading R/btc too much... with such ongoing nonsense implications as if there were actually some kind of thing wrong with bitcoin beyond the fantastical and idiotic musings of bigblockers, such as yourself.

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July 29, 2016, 04:13:17 AM


NO....


Soon is going to be soon. TM

Don't you know that is the standard answer, and it should be accepted? Roll Eyes  NO more questions regarding when we are gonna get there, please.   Wink
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July 29, 2016, 04:15:25 AM


NO....


Soon is going to be soon. TM

Don't you know that is the standard answer, and it should be accepted? Roll Eyes  NO more questions regarding when we are gonna get there, please.   Wink

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July 29, 2016, 04:39:27 AM

JayJuanGee are you almost done slowly selling little bits of coin at this "new price level"?


Maybe I can feel a little bit honored that you are continuing to troll me even though you frequently seem to intentionally mischaracterize my bitcoin trading activities and my trading positions?  then after I seem to have clarified various matters then at issue, you do it again...  Cry

Just to restate, I buy on the way down and sell on the way up but there is a lot of stagnation in recent weeks, so I am not doing too much - yet the amount of my BTC holdings is less than 1% from it's all time high level.... so yeah, I am selling small amounts as the price goes up, an buying as it goes down.. but I would not call us exactly in an up trend, except maybe a baby uptrend, even though we moved down from $684, but then up from mid $640s.. hard to do a lot with small movements (so kind of stagnant in these times and HODLing, no?)






just wondering when you and the other million newbies ( i guess we can't call you newbies anymore when you start grabbing profits... )

If you are kind of trying to be patronizing because you have been in bitcoin a bit longer, you are being a bit goofy about it. People have all kinds of experiences that they can bring to the table besides how much they have studied bitcoin and whether or not their portfolio is "in profits." 

You are coming off as a bit butt hurt in terms of hearing the perspectives of others, and I preached a lot of the same thing when my portfolio was in the negative as compared with now when it is in the positive.  I did gain some additional experience after I began to trade, and I am still attempting to hone those skills, share some ideas, maybe brainstorm a bit with folks on this forum, and likely I still have quite a bit to learn about these matters, even though I feel that I have very decent techniques in place and also a few different experiments, too.








Jr. are done "balancing their portfolio".


I've been balancing for a long time, and I came into bitcoin with over 30 years of personal investing experience - at least dollar cost averaging with various index funds and a few other experimental investments that seem quite different than bitcoin, because I think that I was not really able to personally interact and move funds with the same level of activity as what seems available in bitcoin... and the 24/7 nature of bitcoin, also seems to bring an additional dynamic to the whole incorporation of such bitcoin experiences.




you're gonna be at it for months aren't you....



I have already explained this before, I am not really planning on getting out of bitcoin. I have no idea how bitcoin prices are going to play out, and maybe even if i change some of my approaches to my plans to buy or sell.  So for example, if bitcoin were to shoot up to $5k in a matter of 2 or 3 months, I may well choose to sell only 60% of my holdings, even though others may sell a higher percentage than me.  I have tentative plans, but really those plans can also be tweaked if prices shoot in one direction or another in a much faster or slower pace than previously anticipated.




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July 29, 2016, 05:20:36 AM

JayJuanGee are you almost done slowly selling little bits of coin at this "new price level"?


Maybe I can feel a little bit honored that you are continuing to troll me even though you frequently seem to intentionally mischaracterize my bitcoin trading activities and my trading positions?  then after I seem to have clarified various matters then at issue, you do it again...  Cry

Just to restate, I buy on the way down and sell on the way up but there is a lot of stagnation in recent weeks, so I am not doing too much - yet the amount of my BTC holdings is less than 1% from it's all time high level.... so yeah, I am selling small amounts as the price goes up, an buying as it goes down.. but I would not call us exactly in an up trend, except maybe a baby uptrend, even though we moved down from $684, but then up from mid $640s.. hard to do a lot with small movements (so kind of stagnant in these times and HODLing, no?)






just wondering when you and the other million newbies ( i guess we can't call you newbies anymore when you start grabbing profits... )

If you are kind of trying to be patronizing because you have been in bitcoin a bit longer, you are being a bit goofy about it. People have all kinds of experiences that they can bring to the table besides how much they have studied bitcoin and whether or not their portfolio is "in profits."  

You are coming off as a bit butt hurt in terms of hearing the perspectives of others, and I preached a lot of the same thing when my portfolio was in the negative as compared with now when it is in the positive.  I did gain some additional experience after I began to trade, and I am still attempting to hone those skills, share some ideas, maybe brainstorm a bit with folks on this forum, and likely I still have quite a bit to learn about these matters, even though I feel that I have very decent techniques in place and also a few different experiments, too.








Jr. are done "balancing their portfolio".


I've been balancing for a long time, and I came into bitcoin with over 30 years of personal investing experience - at least dollar cost averaging with various index funds and a few other experimental investments that seem quite different than bitcoin, because I think that I was not really able to personally interact and move funds with the same level of activity as what seems available in bitcoin... and the 24/7 nature of bitcoin, also seems to bring an additional dynamic to the whole incorporation of such bitcoin experiences.




you're gonna be at it for months aren't you....



I have already explained this before, I am not really planning on getting out of bitcoin. I have no idea how bitcoin prices are going to play out, and maybe even if i change some of my approaches to my plans to buy or sell.  So for example, if bitcoin were to shoot up to $5k in a matter of 2 or 3 months, I may well choose to sell only 60% of my holdings, even though others may sell a higher percentage than me.  I have tentative plans, but really those plans can also be tweaked if prices shoot in one direction or another in a much faster or slower pace than previously anticipated.

so your not positioning yourself in a more comfortable % in, and you will Hodl like us 'experts' well, i'm glad to hear that, would've thought you'd be bit of a seller right now.

I figured you kinda overbought when bitcoin was going lower and lower down the rabbit hole and you were now "rebalancing", i still think thats what your doing, but you're just extremely careful/slow about it. I suspect most "Jr" bitcoiners are in the process of slowly rebalancing their overbought positions, and thats whats keeping price from moving up. Its not so much the idea that Jr. are adding to much selling pressure, more like other are patiently acquiring the "Jr" sells and will milk that tills its completely done (which i imagine is soon...) before moving higher. why buy at 800 when there are still people selling in the 600's. this is after all a high price looking at YTD.

ya i dont mean to say you have more or less knowledge about bitcoin when i say "jr" i mean you're relatively new in terms of having acquired a comfortable long term position in the market.
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July 29, 2016, 06:40:04 AM

Your explanation about "overbought" positions might be true: I was thinking of something similar lately even though not in these terms.
I will keep a closer eye on the market to check on your thoughts.

I'd add one thing: this particular season (summer) is well known to slow down everything.

Let us see
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July 29, 2016, 07:04:56 AM

[edited out]
so your not positioning yourself in a more comfortable % in, and you will Hodl like us 'experts' well, i'm glad to hear that, would've thought you'd be bit of a seller right now.


I still think that on an ongoing basis you kind of read into my position and practice kind of what you want to read into it.


I will admit that I have been a very prolific writer in these forums, and I have done a lot of prognosticating about prices, and even made a lot of disclosures about my own bitcoin buying practices - but even with a lot of my disclosures, I probably have held back enough that no one really knows my exact quantities of buys etc.

I have been holding back information mostly for the purpose of maintaining some personal privacy (just in case I meet people in the real world who have seen my forum posts), and I am not trying to really withhold material aspects of my strategy.

I think that I have been consistent throughout to buy on the way down and to sell on the way up.... the only problem between about late 2013 until mid 2015, there really was not much of any up.. so we only had down down down.. .. so in that regard, I never really had any meaningful opportunities to sell on the way up.

O.k... maybe there is a bit of a contradiction in my statement because we did experience some small uptrends in between late 2013 and mid 2015 - however, I really considered that I had not accumulated enough BTC, and I really had not established any kind of selling strategies during that period of time because I considered that I was still accumulating BTC.

I only accumulated BTC with my spare funds, I did not leverage and I did not invest any money that I needed for living expenses or anything like that. 

So I believe that I never did over invest.

Anyhow, my beginning to put my selling into practice, starting in late 2015, was not really to rebalance in any kinds of global ways, but only to help to offset some of the downside volatility risk of BTC... so currently, I am about 95% bitcoin and about 5 % cash, and the most that I have gotten down to in my selling is about 92% bitcoin and 8% cash... I do not consider these to be major rebalancing or selling off, but only selling off very small parts of my portfolio and then buying back on dips.

There is another way of thinking about rebalancing, and that is if I were to rebalance my total quasi-liquid investments.  My initial goals around late 2013 was to work towards investing about 10% of my quasi liquid assets into bitcoin, and probably to stop around that 10% level... I had largely achieved those 10% overall investment into asset allocation in late 2014, so when prices began to rise, my allocation rose to nearly 30%, and I have not diversified out of bitcoin in terms of completely cashing out (not yet), and since my BTC holdings became a higher percentage of my assets based on price appreciation rather than my personal investment, I feel that I can let it ride to higher levels before I rebalance the total of my holdings.. I may even allow it to go into the 60% to 80% territory before I begin to feel too lopsided in terms of bitcoin holdings.





I figured you kinda overbought when bitcoin was going lower and lower down the rabbit hole and you were now "rebalancing", i still think thats what your doing, but you're just extremely careful/slow about it.

I think that you are reading too much into my supposedly having had overbought and my supposedly feeling any kind of need to rebalance the totality of my finances based on having had overbought.  I personally am not in that kind of a situation.  I have no urgency in needing any funds that I have invested into bitcoin, yet I have invested enough that I will profit considerably from some kind of exponential growth period, if one comes.



I suspect most "Jr" bitcoiners are in the process of slowly rebalancing their overbought positions, and thats whats keeping price from moving up.

There could be some truth to what you are saying, but i think that you are attempting to simplify too much.  I think that there is a lot of variation in what kinds of holdings people have and whether they believe that they are investing for the long term and whether they feel some kind of urgency to cash out some of their stash.  Of course, there are going to be all kinds of folks in each category.. people who began investing in 2010 or 2011 but have not built up a stash and people who have and all levels between.. and then the same is true for folks who may have begun investing 2012 2013 or 2014, there are going to be lots of categories of folks.

You recognize that there have been a lot of good developments in bitcoin, and you should also know that since 2013, there have been a lot more big players coming into bitcoin plus tools to short bitcoin, which are all probably much better explanations of various bitcoin price actions rather than trying to describe various investors like me as causing the price to stay down because that is nearly pure nonsense.






Its not so much the idea that Jr. are adding to much selling pressure, more like other are patiently acquiring the "Jr" sells and will milk that tills its completely done (which i imagine is soon...) before moving higher. why buy at 800 when there are still people selling in the 600's. this is after all a high price looking at YTD.


More tools for shorting have caused additional price dynamics besides merely looking at mass adoption abilities to speculate only upwards.  For both bubbles in 2013, it was much more difficult to short bitcoin, and those tools are now available along with some bigger players manipulating BTC prices (or at least attempting such - and that is not me or the likes of me).


ya i dont mean to say you have more or less knowledge about bitcoin when i say "jr" i mean you're relatively new in terms of having acquired a comfortable long term position in the market.

That part is fair enough, but I still think that you are giving too much weight to some of these small potatoes, such as me, and even suggesting that there are a lot of folks out there that are like me... just seems too simple to me. 

marcus_of_augustus
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July 29, 2016, 10:31:52 AM

The bar for financial software is very high, they aren't building a some silly MMO packaged in a neat little box for 50$ a piece...
plus i get the feeling these open source devs simply dont give a crap about deadlines, they are just having fun, working on their masterpiece. I wouldn't be surprised if they spend a life time working on it.

... the true artists that have their heart in it leave stubs behind for side shoots that can be finished when Moore's law takes care of some problem or another so that when they come back from cryo-preservation they can finish the job off

yeah ... you might have to wait a while for your precious little fucking hard fork chaps ...
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July 29, 2016, 01:48:33 PM

Small uptick, low volume zzzzzz
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July 29, 2016, 02:21:06 PM

Small uptick, low volume zzzzzz

Good at spreading FUD ... ha?


*Edit: You should buy.. go 100% in bitcoin!  Grin
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July 29, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Last edit: July 29, 2016, 03:04:18 PM by Elwar



Bitcoin volatility index: 2.5%
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July 29, 2016, 03:05:50 PM
Last edit: July 29, 2016, 03:48:47 PM by savetherainforest



Is one of those mind bending reality gifs? ... If I concentrate I can see it going both sides.. backwards and forward as well... WTF is this sorcery??  Cheesy

Btw... Silver wants to make a move up, and also the Dow Jones Industrial... bla bla... wants to go down!


Also my astral projections are looking to be off the charts... My investments will yield great value this autumn!
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July 29, 2016, 03:09:52 PM

The bar for financial software is very high, they aren't building a some silly MMO packaged in a neat little box for 50$ a piece...
plus i get the feeling these open source devs simply dont give a crap about deadlines, they are just having fun, working on their masterpiece. I wouldn't be surprised if they spend a life time working on it.

... the true artists that have their heart in it leave stubs behind for side shoots that can be finished when Moore's law takes care of some problem or another so that when they come back from cryo-preservation they can finish the job off

yeah ... you might have to wait a while for your precious little fucking hard fork chaps ...

i dont mind waiting, the damage is done, it hard to say if it was minimal or not, but at this point full blocks and fees have become acceptable  and poeple have learnt to deal with it.

i wish it could have been prevented. but meh.

now i just hope i dont have to wait TOO much longer for effective block size incress.
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July 29, 2016, 03:18:21 PM

I heard there is some sort of a secret meeting concerning mining. I don't think anything has been decided yet. I think whatever news we get will be used to push price down until it slingshots up.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/researchers-bitcoin-blockchain-secured-inspite-of-51-attack/


All hail our new overlords. 1mb4life :/
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July 29, 2016, 03:21:18 PM

i think the goal is and always will be to get bitcoin to be able to process all of the worlds TX.
right now poeple have gotten use to the idea that bitcoin will never be able to do that.
when LN comes and changes the game, we will be able to say that "yes bitcoin CAN potentially take over the world."

i agree only LN can achieve this, but i disagree that blocksize can stay at 1MB or that 2MB would have any meaningful centralizing effect. it should have been bumped up already and its sad you small blockers cant see that.

For the love of bitcoin, and all it stands for, we MUST ALL AGREE the fallowing statement is completely INSANE

 " Hard forks are evil, and only core dev knows what best for bitcoin. "
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July 29, 2016, 03:54:34 PM

" Hard forks are evil, and only core dev knows what best for bitcoin. "

I think core is attempting to, and successfully, using the resultant recent smart contract coin change and split, to argue that there should never be any bitcoin forks because, 'see what happens'. I think they are succeeding in this argument. And sorry, I'm being facetious with regards to 1mb4eva since even Nullc conceded that LN needs bigger blocks (4mb). However, all of this will be done under the benevolent leadership of our overlords. Hail hydra.. err core. I think this proposal allows them to continue to consolidate power. I think you are right that we need to show that hard forks are pretty easy. And the most recent hard fork was pretty easy, then polo started screwing everyone and made a bundle of money and stabbed the ecosystem in the back. I have hope for a miner revolt but this just means it needs to happen sooner or the opportunity will be lost forever.
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July 29, 2016, 04:11:26 PM


I didn't say it was approved.... we have been hearing about it waiting to be approved since 2014. So what exactly is new about this:

[...]

Sounds meaningless to me because we have been hearing this since 2014.

[...]

Still waiting..... and 2 years later we have another article that claims it's "still waiting" ...sorry if I'm not excited until we see a confirmation. Anticipation isn't confirmation

The SolidX ETF isn't the Winklevii's COIN ETF. The latter is awaiting comment on a rule change for listing on BATS. NASDAQ never filed for that rule change. There is now a timetable for acceptance, starting with a 45-day period for comment with several possible extensions. I guess it still could all fall apart and be rejected, but it's undeniably further ahead than previously.


Thank you. Now I'm a little more excited.


there is a workable Alpha version of LN
its called Thunder i think
https://www.blockchain.com/thunder/
yup.



This seems like a big deal but I haven't heard about this before. I thought LN was something like pipe-dream that isn't possible yet, at least from what I heard. This thunder network is basically a working prototype showing it's possible.


Quote
Scale: According to our tests so far, we can achieve better-than-Visa scale (100,000 TPS) with only a few thousand nodes on the network

Extremely cheap payments: fees will develop naturally, due to the free market in an open and permissionless network and will fundamentally be lower than on-chain payments

Even if limited to transactions in a trusted network right now this is still pretty incredible. If I'm understanding this right, is this going to be applicable and help scaling once CSV and SegWit are implemented?


i think the goal is and always will be to get bitcoin to be able to process all of the worlds TX.
right now poeple have gotten use to the idea that bitcoin will never be able to do that.
when LN comes and changes the game, we will be able to say that "yes bitcoin CAN potentially take over the world."

i agree only LN can achieve this, but i disagree that blocksize can stay at 1MB or that 2MB would have any meaningful centralizing effect. it should have been bumped up already and its sad you small blockers cant see that.

For the love of bitcoin, and all it stands for, we MUST ALL AGREE the fallowing statement is completely INSANE

 " Hard forks are evil, and only core dev knows what best for bitcoin. "



It's unfortunate that there's a divide happening in this community between "small blockers" and the other folks. But I don't understand why, didn't Core agree to a segwit softfork + the 2Mb hardfork for a total of 4Mb increase in their roadmap? Is that not happening or are you saying it's taking too long?

Quote
SegWit is expected to be released in April 2016.
The code for the hard-fork will therefore be available by July 2016.
If there is strong community support, the hard-fork activation will likely happen around July 2017.


https://medium.com/@bitcoinroundtable/bitcoin-roundtable-consensus-266d475a61ff#.i1yfnaja4


I'm not sure if I'm a "small blocker" if I'm okay with this roadmap... but to me it seems like the scaling issue is going to be temporary. Once block size is increased, SegWit + LN is out and then the ETF gets approved then what, moon? At least these are the rumors, once they're news it'll be too late

I got my bitcoinz ready.... sick and tired of being in the upper-middle class
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July 29, 2016, 04:32:16 PM

The bar for financial software is very high, they aren't building a some silly MMO packaged in a neat little box for 50$ a piece...
plus i get the feeling these open source devs simply dont give a crap about deadlines, they are just having fun, working on their masterpiece. I wouldn't be surprised if they spend a life time working on it.

... the true artists that have their heart in it leave stubs behind for side shoots that can be finished when Moore's law takes care of some problem or another so that when they come back from cryo-preservation they can finish the job off

yeah ... you might have to wait a while for your precious little fucking hard fork chaps ...


I'm glad that they don't rush out some quick supposed solution without considering the various ramifications - and in December, we would be looking like Ethereum. 

The testing and the vetting and the getting input and insight are all important in the grown up world when dealing with actual value and looking towards the longer term (rather than pump and dump).
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