Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[adamstgBit]

05 Aug 2016 at 12:09 AM (UTC)

We are still working out the details so nothing is set in stone, however we are leaning towards a socialized loss scenario among bitcoin balances and active loans to BTCUSD positions. The numbers being quoted are erroneous as nothing has been decided as of yet and we are still in the process of settling positions and balances. More details are to follow tomorrow along with a FAQ answering most of the questions we have been asked over the past couple days.

erroneous loss or erroneous amount of bitcoin available to "socialize" the loss.

if bitfinex held ~230K BTC everyone gets a 50% hair cut

[1715170116]

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[JayJuanGee]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4vtv1m/bitfinex_down_due_to_bitcoin_security_breach/d64ow17

socialized losses for bitcoin and loans to btc/usd positions. guess we'll know the full facts in a few hours.

Thanks for that link ECB...    The post pretty much states that Bitfinex is going to make a more official update tomorrow, but in the meantime, like you said, Bitfinex is considering a way to socialize losses amongst Bitfinex BTC holders.

 I don't really have a problem with socialized loss in the sense that Bitfinex would later pay back those "losers"... yet, I believe that they are not considering paying back the "losers"...

 I think that it is a bit irresponsible to cause the users to hold the bag... and even though we are finding out some details, we still have to wait for more specifics, which seems to be scheduled to come out tomorrow.

Although Zanetackett keeps talking about scenarios he has stated twice that USD funds will not be susceptible to the socialised loss. I feel for the Bitfinex Bitcoin holders, but it seems the Bitfinex USD fund holders dodged a bullet, provided Bitfinex implements its socialised loss scenario.


https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4w7o1j/itfinex_update_regarding_margin_funding_providers/d64q1b3

So USD funds (that were simply held and not lent out) would not be affected at all by the hack, correct?

In that scenario, they would not be susceptible to the socialized loss.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4vtv1m/bitfinex_down_due_to_bitcoin_security_breach/d64qhkr

Im presuming the BTC I was holding may be subject to socialized losses, but not the USD in my account?

That would be correct.

I also read that Tackett said that Bitfinex was considering a variety of scenarios, so they were not completely taking options off of the table.  I personally believe that in the end, a representation that they are not mixing assets would likely save bitfinex a lot of complications by NOT mixing different asset classes.. so even if they are not taking options off of the table, if they are conceptualizing various scenarios in which they are not going to mix assets, then that is a better arrangement.

On the other hand, if they are conceptualizing scenarios in which their customers are taking losses for their lack of security, then that kind of a conceptualization would have a considerable chance of losing them credibility and good will under their current and potentially future customers.

[adamstgBit]

05 Aug 2016 at 12:09 AM (UTC)

We are still working out the details so nothing is set in stone, however we are leaning towards a socialized loss scenario among bitcoin balances and active loans to BTCUSD positions. The numbers being quoted are erroneous as nothing has been decided as of yet and we are still in the process of settling positions and balances. More details are to follow tomorrow along with a FAQ answering most of the questions we have been asked over the past couple days.

erroneous loss or erroneous amount of bitcoin available to "socialize" the loss.

if bitfinex held ~230K BTC everyone gets a 50% hair cut

We NEED a rough estimate of bitfenix's total BTC holdings
this info is simply not available
here we go some conjecture....

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4md665/coinbase_may_have_lied_about_the_number_of/

Coinbase is now storing 'about 10% of all bitcoin in circulation'.

you'd think bitfinex had a similar amount of coins? right?
so like ~1.5million coins
everyone gets a ~10% hair cut?
wouldn't that be lovely

[yefi]

Only to the extent of checking them from time to time. If one were to fail, I'd replace it with a copy from one of the other.

Personally, I've never had an SD card or SSD fail and I was an early adopter of SSDs. I'd hate to admit what I paid for my first PATA 32GB Memorite SSD almost a decade ago but it's still running fine.

When OCZ brought out their first Vertex SATA SSDs, I replaced my Raptor RAID-0 array with 4 of them. When I got my first Revodrive PCIe RAID SSD card, the Vertex cards went into netbooks. All are still working as far AFAIK.

The only flash memory I've had fail were USB keys and that was probably due to physical abuse.

Ah, if you check them periodically it should be fine. The problem arises when they're unpowered for a long time, as the cells aren't refreshed and the voltage level drops to a point where they become unreadable.

First SSD for me was the veritable Mtron 16GB. Was about the first consumer SSD here in the UK. You could buy a 1TB now for the price and probably still have change.

[belmonty]

05 Aug 2016 at 12:09 AM (UTC)

We are still working out the details so nothing is set in stone, however we are leaning towards a socialized loss scenario among bitcoin balances and active loans to BTCUSD positions. The numbers being quoted are erroneous as nothing has been decided as of yet and we are still in the process of settling positions and balances. More details are to follow tomorrow along with a FAQ answering most of the questions we have been asked over the past couple days.

erroneous loss or erroneous amount of bitcoin available to "socialize" the loss.

if bitfinex held ~230K BTC everyone gets a 50% hair cut

We NEED a rough estimate of bitfenix's total BTC holdings
this info is simply not available
here we go some conjecture....

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4md665/coinbase_may_have_lied_about_the_number_of/

Coinbase is now storing 'about 10% of all bitcoin in circulation'.

you'd think bitfinex had a similar amount of coins? right?
so like ~1.5million coins
everyone gets a ~10% hair cut?
wouldn't that be lovely

An ibtimes story quotes Charles Hayter estimating that 20% of all funds were lost, provided it had double the coins on deposit compared to last year.

The story says the hack in May last year lost it 1,459 BTC which represented 0.5% of all customer deposits.

If Bitfinex had the same number of coins deposited this year then the hack might have lost it 41% of all customer deposits.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hong-kong-bitcoin-exchange-bitfinex-reports-65m-btc-stolen-by-hackers-1573968

Charles Hayter, CEO and founder of CrytoCompare told IBTimes UK: "It is not clear on what the capital buffers are at Bitfinex, although if we take last year's figures of 300,000 bitcoin and apply a generous doubling, we can speculate that 20% of all funds have been lost.

Bitfinex was hacked last year in May when 1,459 bitcoins were lost. Their hot wallet system for customer deposits was breached, which at the time represented 0.5% of all customer deposits. Bitfinex subsequently teamed up with BitGo to implement individual multi signature wallets for users.

[adamstgBit]

05 Aug 2016 at 12:09 AM (UTC)

We are still working out the details so nothing is set in stone, however we are leaning towards a socialized loss scenario among bitcoin balances and active loans to BTCUSD positions. The numbers being quoted are erroneous as nothing has been decided as of yet and we are still in the process of settling positions and balances. More details are to follow tomorrow along with a FAQ answering most of the questions we have been asked over the past couple days.

erroneous loss or erroneous amount of bitcoin available to "socialize" the loss.

if bitfinex held ~230K BTC everyone gets a 50% hair cut

We NEED a rough estimate of bitfenix's total BTC holdings
this info is simply not available
here we go some conjecture....

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4md665/coinbase_may_have_lied_about_the_number_of/

Coinbase is now storing 'about 10% of all bitcoin in circulation'.

you'd think bitfinex had a similar amount of coins? right?
so like ~1.5million coins
everyone gets a ~10% hair cut?
wouldn't that be lovely

An ibtimes story quotes Charles Hayter estimating that 20% of all funds were lost, provided it had double the coins on deposit compared to last year.

The story says the hack in May last year lost it 1,459 BTC which represented 0.5% of all customer deposits.

If Bitfinex had the same number of coins deposited this year then the hack might have lost it 41% of all customer deposits.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hong-kong-bitcoin-exchange-bitfinex-reports-65m-btc-stolen-by-hackers-1573968

Charles Hayter, CEO and founder of CrytoCompare told IBTimes UK: "It is not clear on what the capital buffers are at Bitfinex, although if we take last year's figures of 300,000 bitcoin and apply a generous doubling, we can speculate that 20% of all funds have been lost.

Bitfinex was hacked last year in May when 1,459 bitcoins were lost. Their hot wallet system for customer deposits was breached, which at the time represented 0.5% of all customer deposits. Bitfinex subsequently teamed up with BitGo to implement individual multi signature wallets for users.

if weekly USD/BTC volume is any indication of the total amount of BTC they held  i'd say a doubling from last years 300K BTC total holdings(600K BTC) is beyond generous
past few month of USD/BTC volume seems fairly consistent with last years USD/BTC volume.

[marcus_of_augustus]

segwit getting v. v. close to release ... fwiw.

[adamstgBit]

hehehehehe
this fork is set for 3-6 months form now.
so in bitcoin land that mean 9-infinity months from now, aka SOON^TM!

idk why but i think they will fail. right now they seem extremely disorganized, no real solid plan, everyone has there own ideas.
its interesting to watch tho.

[Dafar]

And what if Antpool and some other large miners decide to go with this amateur fork chain because they're pissed at core?


but yeah, fuck these guys

[LFC_Bitcoin]

segwit getting v. v. close to release ... fwiw.

Bullish for the price, surely?

It's been a long time coming.

[DaRude]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4vtv1m/bitfinex_down_due_to_bitcoin_security_breach/d64ow17

socialized losses for bitcoin and loans to btc/usd positions. guess we'll know the full facts in a few hours.

Thanks for that link ECB...    The post pretty much states that Bitfinex is going to make a more official update tomorrow, but in the meantime, like you said, Bitfinex is considering a way to socialize losses amongst Bitfinex BTC holders.

 I don't really have a problem with socialized loss in the sense that Bitfinex would later pay back those "losers"... yet, I believe that they are not considering paying back the "losers"...

 I think that it is a bit irresponsible to cause the users to hold the bag... and even though we are finding out some details, we still have to wait for more specifics, which seems to be scheduled to come out tomorrow.

Really the best option for everyone. Other option is to go belly up and then after 4yrs and a bunch of attorney fees you might see some distributions (see Gox). Assuming there'd be a full investigation and it wasn't internal job etc...

[DeathAngel]

Price seems to have settled in the $565-$575 range after the Bitfinex hack. I wonder which way we'll go next, feels a bit uneasy waiting for the next move after such a crash.

[Searing]

Price seems to have settled in the $565-$575 range after the Bitfinex hack. I wonder which way we'll go next, feels a bit uneasy waiting for the next move after such a crash.

I waiting for the China miners to announce say a 8mb block fork on Friday just to round
 out the week. That could make Bitcoin go pear shaped in a big way. 2014 180 used coin redux

FML

[savetherainforest]

Well what do we talk about now then??

Global warming is a hoax and we are heading towards an mini-ice age actually. Food prices will rise like hell...  

It will be a devaluation sh!tfest for everyone, because every country/government will try to get the best food outcome possibility for their country. Meaning that all devaluation will help BTCitcoin.

[Globb0]

When everything is devalued to hell and food is expensive etc. who will pay the expensive money for your valuable bitcoins?

[Unacceptable]

When everything is devalued to hell and food is expensive etc. who will pay the expensive money for your valuable bitcoins?

[Paashaas]

What the hell... Finex is bankrupt and now they want a ''Cyprus'' style haircut for all there users 

That must be a easy fix isn't it? Passing the bill to there users to save there own skin.

A lot of people wanted to avoid this kind of corruption, and now it arrives in Bitcoinland. Monkey see monkey do, so others will see how this ''hack'' heist occurs and bail them out = easy money!

Why no press conference? i only see a freaking smokescreen on both sides. I just dont believe it they have been hacked, by-passing privatekeys and 2-3 multi-sigs...yhea right!

[savetherainforest]

When everything is devalued to hell and food is expensive etc. who will pay the expensive money for your valuable bitcoins?

Yep... he's a troll.    ... Basically all currencies devalued and if everyone holds... Bitcoin can't go down... that's pure economics 101.  
It is basically just wealth created out of thin air.

[xxxgoodgirls]

Is anyone following the stolen BTCs?

[Admiral_Bit]

Is anyone following the stolen BTCs?

You know the difference between a Bitcoin and a Turtle? The Bitcoin is made of gold!