Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[adamstgBit]

They say we'll get BitFinex "tokens" which will be turned into shares of BitFinex stock..

why do i keep hearing about "tokens" can someone point me to the source of this rumor.

We are actively discussing various strategic options with numerous potential investors as part of our strategy to fully compensate our customers. Such discussions, however, are in early stages and will likely take time to play out. In the meantime, In place of the loss in each wallet, we are crediting a token labeled BFX to record each customer’s discrete losses. Tokens will be distributed without release or waiver. The BFX tokens will remain outstanding until redeemed in full by Bitfinex or possibly exchanged—upon the creditor’s request and Bitfinex’s acceptance—for shares of iFinex Inc. We are still sorting out many details on this; we will post further updates in the coming days.

LOL i see

well thats really fucking cool on there part.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^

iFinex Inc.
There is no Key Executives data available.
There is no Board Members data available.
There is no committee data available.

[LogHangingConsortium]

^Getting dangerously close to altcoin discussion.

But back to the walls, any rumors on when BFX plans to refloat the Titanic restoke Chernobyl bring the site back online?  Heard something about Monday in zombie mode, should we start painting victory stripes yet?

P.S. watching huobi chart on bitcoinwisdom, look over to the other markets in the top bar, and "huh, finex is up to 604 already ... ? Doh!"

my guess is: "zombie mode" as early as monday, and back to full operation by friday.

provided things go smoothly and no one try to sue them or somthing.

Nothing stopping people from suing after they get their 64% out of that bad neighborhood.
If a mugger tells you he'll return half of your money if you promise not to go to the cops, whatever you tell the mugger won't be considered binding by the court.

Yeah, people will sue. 100% chance.

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop from the rep. I'm betting on something negative in a few days, to swing the price down. I would.

[UngratefulTony]

i hope this makes it clear.

They don't want to turn off their magic money making machine, that much is clear... they just aren't aware it's shattered, strewn across the shop floor, irreparably destroyed yet?

provided things go smoothly and no one try to sue them or somthing.

Can't imagine that happening... lol.

They say we'll get BitFinex "tokens" which will be turned into shares of BitFinex stock..

why do i keep hearing about "tokens" can someone point me to the source of this rumor.

We are actively discussing various strategic options with numerous potential investors as part of our strategy to fully compensate our customers. Such discussions, however, are in early stages and will likely take time to play out. In the meantime, In place of the loss in each wallet, we are crediting a token labeled BFX to record each customer’s discrete losses. Tokens will be distributed without release or waiver. The BFX tokens will remain outstanding until redeemed in full by Bitfinex or possibly exchanged—upon the creditor’s request and Bitfinex’s acceptance—for shares of iFinex Inc. We are still sorting out many details on this; we will post further updates in the coming days.

LOL i see

well thats really fucking cool on there part.

1) Facilitate or participate in the loss of near 40% of your clients' money.

2) Shrewd clients say "it isn't that bad, could be worse", "hopefully they'll start trading again soon."

3) Clients light up with glee when bankrupt organization floats pie in the sky idea of illegally offering non-enforceable equity to non-accredited investors (many/most of US domicile) in said bankrupt organization in lieu of rube's money.

[Just Bitcoiner Things.]

[adamstgBit]

^Getting dangerously close to altcoin discussion.

But back to the walls, any rumors on when BFX plans to refloat the Titanic restoke Chernobyl bring the site back online?  Heard something about Monday in zombie mode, should we start painting victory stripes yet?

P.S. watching huobi chart on bitcoinwisdom, look over to the other markets in the top bar, and "huh, finex is up to 604 already ... ? Doh!"

my guess is: "zombie mode" as early as monday, and back to full operation by friday.

provided things go smoothly and no one try to sue them or somthing.

Nothing stopping people from suing after they get their 64% out of that bad neighborhood.
If a mugger tells you he'll return half of your money if you promise not to go to the cops, whatever you tell the mugger won't be considered binding by the court.

Yeah, people will sue. 100% chance.

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop from the rep. I'm betting on something negative in a few days, to swing the price down. I would.

i've explained this 100X
suing bitfinex will get you a far worse deal then they are offering.
i didnt even know about the tokens and i thought it was still a better option to go along with their bail in rather then suing them
if you hate bitfinex, when they open again withdraw all your coins, and wait to sell your tokens.
I however might be buying the tokens.
bitfinex fucked up, sure, but IMO they are handling this exceptionally well. with a  better security model, and some time, i now believe they can once again be #1 BTC/USD exchange.
the MTGOX explosion and Bitfinex are as different as night and day.
i am impressed with their swift and fair actions.

[adamstgBit]

i hope this makes it clear.

They don't want to turn off their magic money making machine, that much is clear... they just aren't aware it's shattered, strewn across the shop floor, irreparably destroyed yet?

provided things go smoothly and no one try to sue them or somthing.

Can't imagine that happening... lol.

They say we'll get BitFinex "tokens" which will be turned into shares of BitFinex stock..

why do i keep hearing about "tokens" can someone point me to the source of this rumor.

We are actively discussing various strategic options with numerous potential investors as part of our strategy to fully compensate our customers. Such discussions, however, are in early stages and will likely take time to play out. In the meantime, In place of the loss in each wallet, we are crediting a token labeled BFX to record each customer’s discrete losses. Tokens will be distributed without release or waiver. The BFX tokens will remain outstanding until redeemed in full by Bitfinex or possibly exchanged—upon the creditor’s request and Bitfinex’s acceptance—for shares of iFinex Inc. We are still sorting out many details on this; we will post further updates in the coming days.

LOL i see

well thats really fucking cool on there part.

1) Facilitate or participate in the loss of near 40% of your clients' money.

2) Shrewd clients say "it isn't that bad, could be worse", "hopefully they'll start trading again soon."

3) Clients light up with glee when bankrupt organization floats pie in the sky idea of illegally offering non-enforceable equity to non-accredited investors (many/most of US domicile) in said bankrupt organization in lieu of rube's money.

[Just Bitcoiner Things.]

being NLC all you can focus on is their fuck up.
nothing they do will change your mind about them
"
they are evil poeple looking to steal your money.
much like a mugger.
bla bla bla
bitcoiners are stupid
bla bla bla
"

GTFO of here man.

[UngratefulTony]

GTFO of here man.

I wouldn't miss this for the world. A real world, real time, case study in stockholm syndrome.

It sucks, but a bankruptcy court is the only way these jagoffs aren't going to be laughing their asses off at you as they "socialize" their mistakes onto you without oversight.

I'm sorry you lost money, at least try to save some of your dignity by not giving these assholes a pass.  

not lambie btw, at least not the real one.

Director Tuckett (not) answering some questions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUpfGRDN4IY

[JayJuanGee]

But back to the walls, any rumors on when BFX plans to refloat the Titanic restoke Chernobyl bring the site back online?  Heard something about Monday in zombie mode, should we start painting victory stripes yet?

Even though you are coming off as a fucking goofball troll, this seems to be a quasi-relevant question.

The latest BFX notice, which was issued a bit over 24 hours ago, had said that they were planning to come back online in a limited capacity in the next 24-48 hours.  So, yeah, we are within the window period in which they could come back online, but yeah, none of this is set in stone, especially if they potentially were to run into some SNAFUs on their end that could cause additional delays.

No, I am not taking their side on anything, but to the extent that this problem could actually be real (and not created by Bitfinex themselves), it is definitely reasonable that sorting it out could take a considerable amount of time and a considerable amount of weighing their options, including their public communications of such decisions, once made.  Also, surely some of the earlier communications and notifications can serve as test balloons in weigh various aspects of public reaction and the extent to which the public may know things that have not been made public.

I suspect that once Bitfinex goes on line, it may take several days, and maybe even a week before they actually resume trading.  In this regard, the extent to which their going on line could cause additional discussion, surprises or curve balls in their determination whether to actually go live with their currently proposed path forward.

[savetherainforest]

what happens if that person removes the amount 64%

they can't, they can't access their accounts right now, when they do access there account, they will find the BFX  settled all there margin positions and took 36% of their holdings.


i hope this makes it clear.

Nope... it does not make it clear ...

The thing is ... when do they get back those 36% of their money/coins back? ... And I'm not asking when... but if they will get that full 36% back! Like full restitution!!! + % interest!

Because in the end... their entity was proprietary of the coins thieved... and basically in the future they would have legal ownership over the parent address codes that where stolen.


*This is pure theoretical: And keeping that in mind... A tactical missile can be literally bought and executed on a target for less than 10.000$ .. that is less than 20BTC at the current rate. And now depending if that missile is a small nuke warhead with a mediocre 5% enriched radioactive material or just something simple like C4 payload. And after hearing this, do they really actually think that taking 36% and never giving that percentage back is a good idea? .. I mean, Hong Kong where they have their server in the crystal palace skyscraper, or the owners and employees at their homes where they live... Do you think they will get away without retaliation? And all this from an all theoretical perspective of someone who does not own anything in the Finex exchange... What do you think it will happen when the ones that actually own the power of a few millions will/can do?

*The proper response of Finix is: We are on our knees, in front of you! We are your slaves, and we will take it in!.. as hard as you will give it to us! Till we will pay you back that 36% confiscated from you.

And a more proper way to bail in with that 36% is to restore everything as it was before the hack to everyone, fiat or bitcoin, but not allow for those 36% to be removed from the exchange. Basically you can gamble as it was before, but 36% of the settled initial amount will be compromised and kept hostage on the trading table.

[Dafar]

Buy now, or wait for the weekend dip?

i'm waiting for a dip,
but i dont NEED to buy.... i will survive the coming fiat melt down 

Ended up buying some more right now.... waiting for the weekend dip cost me a $50 premium, fuck 

[JayJuanGee]

are just doing this temporarily and in time they will refund 1% every month or so?

no this is a one time deal which will make BFX whole again. everyone losses 36% and thats all there is to it.

I don't know, Adam.  You may be misreading this a little bit.  

I think that you are correct that the current proposal intends to cause a 36% shaving across the board for all account holders and all asset classes that were in effect at the time of the discovery of the supposed hack.

At the same time, my understanding of the BFX coin is intended to allow some kind of recognition and representation of the 36% loss, and over time those BFX coins could change in value and possibly allow for some future recuperation of some of the 36% loss.  The BFX coins will be tradeable etc, and accordingly, that trading of BFX coins could cause individual BFX coin holders to lose more or less in terms of the extent to which they may chose to engage in such trading of BFX coins.

EDIT:  PS... @ADAM::: I see that you pretty much recognized the BFX coin issue in your subsequent posts, so my above reiteration of points that you seem to have recognized seems to be a bit redundant (nonetheless, I will leave my above post in place, since I had already written and posted it)

[adamstgBit]

Buy now, or wait for the weekend dip?

i'm waiting for a dip,
but i dont NEED to buy.... i will survive the coming fiat melt down 

Ended up buying some more right now.... waiting for the weekend dip cost me a $50 premium, fuck 

mean while i'm still waiting

[adamstgBit]

are just doing this temporarily and in time they will refund 1% every month or so?

no this is a one time deal which will make BFX whole again. everyone losses 36% and thats all there is to it.

I don't know, Adam.  You may be misreading this a little bit. 

I think that you are correct that the current proposal intends to cause a 36% shaving across the board for all account holders and all asset classes that were in effect at the time of the discovery of the supposed hack.

At the same time, my understanding of the BFX coin is intended to allow some kind of recognition and representation of the 36% loss, and over time those BFX coins could change in value and possibly allow for some future recuperation of some of the 36% loss.  The BFX coins will be tradeable etc, and accordingly, that trading of BFX coins could cause individual BFX coin holders to lose more or less in terms of the extent to which they may chose to engage in such trading of BFX coins.

yup i stopped reading their announcement at after i read the bit about 36% generalized loss

totally missed the other important bit.

[Globb0]

[LogHangingConsortium]

^Getting dangerously close to altcoin discussion.

But back to the walls, any rumors on when BFX plans to refloat the Titanic restoke Chernobyl bring the site back online?  Heard something about Monday in zombie mode, should we start painting victory stripes yet?

P.S. watching huobi chart on bitcoinwisdom, look over to the other markets in the top bar, and "huh, finex is up to 604 already ... ? Doh!"

my guess is: "zombie mode" as early as monday, and back to full operation by friday.

provided things go smoothly and no one try to sue them or somthing.

Nothing stopping people from suing after they get their 64% out of that bad neighborhood.
If a mugger tells you he'll return half of your money if you promise not to go to the cops, whatever you tell the mugger won't be considered binding by the court.

Yeah, people will sue. 100% chance.

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop from the rep. I'm betting on something negative in a few days, to swing the price down. I would.

i've explained this 100X
suing bitfinex will get you a far worse deal then they are offering.

People will get what BFX is offering before they sue. Once they have their 64% in hand, they'll sue. Whatever they get from that if bonus

I however might be buying the tokens.

I'd try to stop you, but you'd probably go ahead and buy those titanic tickets just to spite me.
Fine, it's your money. Lose as much of it as you want.

bitfinex fucked up, sure, but IMO they are handling this exceptionally well. with a  better security model, and some time, i now believe they can once again be #1 BTC/USD exchange.

BFX chose quick profits over security. It did this knowingly. Btcdark said they refused peer review of their wallet implementation. Now they''re finished. If you manage to get anything more than a promise of 64% out of BFX, count your blessings. But no, you are thinking of buying their tokens

the MTGOX explosion and Bitfinex are as different as night and day.

Is it because MagicalTux didn't think of issuing GOXtokens. If he just knew how stupid people really are, he'd still be running the biggest Bitcoin exchange, with brisk trade in Goxtokens, BFXtokens, and Cryptsytokens.

i am impressed with their swift and fair actions.

Send me your money, if you get any back from BFX.  I'll impress you even more. Might give you back a whole 65%.
But then again, to what end? You'd probably be just as impressed if I gave back any at all.

Even though you are coming off as a fucking goofball troll

That's as far as I needed to read. Choke on a bag of dicks.

[adamstgBit]

I however might be buying the tokens.

I'd try to stop you, but you'd probably go ahead and buy those titanic tickets just to spite me.
Fine, it's your money. Lose as much of it as you want.

let me use this reply to say a few things

first off, given the opportunity to hold a dividend paying share of a bitcoin exchange company would be fun and probably very lucrative.
if you believe BFX will one day be #1 BTC/USD exchange and bitcoin itself will grow, then  holding shares in bitfinex is an opportunity

second, what i love most about bitcoin is how it levels the playing field and allows someone like me ( not a whale, but a tiny fish ) to be presented with that  opportunity. when sdice sold shares i was right there next to gigantic whales buying IPO.

third, i dont trust you with my money  

[JayJuanGee]

are just doing this temporarily and in time they will refund 1% every month or so?

no this is a one time deal which will make BFX whole again. everyone losses 36% and thats all there is to it.

I don't know, Adam.  You may be misreading this a little bit. 

I think that you are correct that the current proposal intends to cause a 36% shaving across the board for all account holders and all asset classes that were in effect at the time of the discovery of the supposed hack.

At the same time, my understanding of the BFX coin is intended to allow some kind of recognition and representation of the 36% loss, and over time those BFX coins could change in value and possibly allow for some future recuperation of some of the 36% loss.  The BFX coins will be tradeable etc, and accordingly, that trading of BFX coins could cause individual BFX coin holders to lose more or less in terms of the extent to which they may chose to engage in such trading of BFX coins.

yup i stopped reading their announcement at after i read the bit about 36% generalized loss

totally missed the other important bit.

These kinds of matters are fast moving, and it is totally understandable that some of us are going to miss important information and may even need to retract or alter our perspectives. 

I also think that many of us may have quite a bit of skepticism regarding BFX's story, but still if they come out with and employ a fairly reasonable plan forward, they may be able to retain a decent trading market share (whether that's from existing users or new users).. for example, if the BFX coin ends up sufficiently appreciating in value to largely repay losses, then that could be a significant boon for BFX's business.  On the other hand, there are also some possible very negative scenarios too, such as additional hacks or additional appearances of scamming by BFX that causes their credibility to completely wane and the BFX coins lose value (I imagine that the BFX coins are starting out at zero value, or near zero value, but it remains a very innovative possible way of generating continued loser stake in the success of BFX and even allows for the BFX coin holders to employ their gambling (trading) inclinations).

[Holliday]

While the numbers are tallied " internally or on paper," who actually holds the funds? Whose wallets?
How would you do it? Walk me through.

First, what is my M.O.? Protect users funds, steal from users illegally, or steal from users legally?

If it's: Provide services that gamblers traders demand while keeping their deposits safe and complying with all regulations. Fuck that. I'd rather chew glass. Beside, you aren't paying me enough.

Also, fuck legal/financial definitions, I'm only interested in reality. If you want to actually "own" bitcoins (in a way where another individual requires your permission to obtain the asset), see my sig. Anything short of that comes with the risk of total loss.

[JayJuanGee]

Globb0:   From my little understanding of the BFX coin situation, your post makes little sense - because it is very likely that BFX coins are going to start out at zero or very close to zero value.. therefore,  the likely price direction is going to be up, but you could be correct that the value of the BFX coin could decrease in value or it could flatten out and not really increase in value over time.

Nonetheless, my point is that the starting point is at or near zero, not some elevated place that is going to allow or cause depreciation... unless BFX coin holders are paying others to take their BFX coins, which makes little sense

[adamstgBit]

are just doing this temporarily and in time they will refund 1% every month or so?

no this is a one time deal which will make BFX whole again. everyone losses 36% and thats all there is to it.

I don't know, Adam.  You may be misreading this a little bit.  

I think that you are correct that the current proposal intends to cause a 36% shaving across the board for all account holders and all asset classes that were in effect at the time of the discovery of the supposed hack.

At the same time, my understanding of the BFX coin is intended to allow some kind of recognition and representation of the 36% loss, and over time those BFX coins could change in value and possibly allow for some future recuperation of some of the 36% loss.  The BFX coins will be tradeable etc, and accordingly, that trading of BFX coins could cause individual BFX coin holders to lose more or less in terms of the extent to which they may chose to engage in such trading of BFX coins.

yup i stopped reading their announcement at after i read the bit about 36% generalized loss

totally missed the other important bit.

These kinds of matters are fast moving, and it is totally understandable that some of us are going to miss important information and may even need to retract or alter our perspectives.  

I also think that many of us may have quite a bit of skepticism regarding BFX's story, but still if they come out with and employ a fairly reasonable plan forward, they may be able to retain a decent trading market share (whether that's from existing users or new users).. for example, if the BFX coin ends up sufficiently appreciating in value to largely repay losses, then that could be a significant boon for BFX's business.  On the other hand, there are also some possible very negative scenarios too, such as additional hacks or additional appearances of scamming by BFX that causes their credibility to completely wane and the BFX coins lose value (I imagine that the BFX coins are starting out at zero value, or near zero value, but it remains a very innovative possible way of generating continued loser stake in the success of BFX and even allows for the BFX coin holders to employ their gambling (trading) inclinations).

its unclear what the BFX token will represent they clearly state that has not be decided, but appear to point toward shares representing some % of bitfinex which may or may not be dividend paying shares, based on some % of BFX net profits going forward.

this assumption is based on this line:

for shares of iFinex Inc.

if that is the case then i would imagine these tokens will not start off at zero
i would assume an IPO at a fixed price, followed by a open market for buy/selling "shares of iFinex Inc."

i look forward to learning more about these "shares of iFinex Inc.".

i'll consider the terms and conditions and might actually be a buyer, if i can....