Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[savetherainforest]

So, who is going to be stupid enough to lay a finger on their BFX tokens?

i'm a sucker for a sweet deal that no one wants to touch.

That poll... so judging by the 36% haircut, we can assume that 20% - 25% of the total was thieved!... And by that we can assume it is more than 250$ million if it was the total...  But keeping in mind the current rate and the imminent bitcoin potential rise, we can say for the short term(30days) 500$ million would have sufficed, with the adjustment to inflation. But they don't have 100% ... because part of that was erased with the theft. So 250$ million would have been more appropriate and a good deal for the exchange price we have now on hand.

[Unacceptable]

I was able to log into my Bitfinex account. Of the 31 bitcoins I have a balance of 20 bitcoins (which I will withdraw immediately once the option is available). I have 412 USD and about 7000 BFX (tokens).

I have no idea why I have dollars on there, I've never had dollars on there. I'll be buying bitcoins with them and withdrawing those as well.

As for the whole token concept. I had been working with an international company for quite some time and we had been trying to come up with a way to sell shares to raise our initial funding. With the company being based in Belize with Bitcoin as our main currency and the blockchain being used for tracking our shares we would not be like any other company. But with half of the board living in the US and not wanting to lose US customers we had to figure out a way to word things so that we were not offering "shares" or "dollars" or anything else that had some sort of legal connotation. We played around with the idea of tokens because any company can sell tokens. We planned on selling a set amount of them being a percentage share of our company. But when talking to lawyers we found out that linking a token's value to shares of the company would defacto turn it into shares and subject us to all sorts of rules and limitations that just wouldn't work for us. I kinda lost confidence in our business model when we still decided to go with a "token" type of setup but not a limited number and turned it into more of a membership model with not much reward (that I can see) for being a member. But I'm just the IT guy so I am leaving it in the hands of our marketing guy to figure it all out.

I would like to see Bitfinex define what exactly a BFX represents and make sure it is set in stone. Otherwise I will just cash them out. Their initial value is being set to $1 each.

If they are actually representative of a percentage share of their company with dividends then I would consider keeping them. But they likely cannot say that legally, so they become a very shitty centralized alt coin with unlimited printing ability that you can't use for anything.

If I were you,I'd get my cash & BTC out if there ASAP.

Maybe sit on those BFX tokens for few more days,then dump those if things don't look much better by then,or hold if things look stable 

Best of luck,hope ya learned something from this 

Even if your very rich,losing that much "investment" has got to sting abit..............

[Elwar]

I was able to log into my Bitfinex account. Of the 31 bitcoins I have a balance of 20 bitcoins (which I will withdraw immediately once the option is available). I have 412 USD and about 7000 BFX (tokens).

I have no idea why I have dollars on there, I've never had dollars on there. I'll be buying bitcoins with them and withdrawing those as well.

As for the whole token concept. I had been working with an international company for quite some time and we had been trying to come up with a way to sell shares to raise our initial funding. With the company being based in Belize with Bitcoin as our main currency and the blockchain being used for tracking our shares we would not be like any other company. But with half of the board living in the US and not wanting to lose US customers we had to figure out a way to word things so that we were not offering "shares" or "dollars" or anything else that had some sort of legal connotation. We played around with the idea of tokens because any company can sell tokens. We planned on selling a set amount of them being a percentage share of our company. But when talking to lawyers we found out that linking a token's value to shares of the company would defacto turn it into shares and subject us to all sorts of rules and limitations that just wouldn't work for us. I kinda lost confidence in our business model when we still decided to go with a "token" type of setup but not a limited number and turned it into more of a membership model with not much reward (that I can see) for being a member. But I'm just the IT guy so I am leaving it in the hands of our marketing guy to figure it all out.

I would like to see Bitfinex define what exactly a BFX represents and make sure it is set in stone. Otherwise I will just cash them out. Their initial value is being set to $1 each.

If they are actually representative of a percentage share of their company with dividends then I would consider keeping them. But they likely cannot say that legally, so they become a very shitty centralized alt coin with unlimited printing ability that you can't use for anything.

If I were you,I'd get my cash & BTC out if there ASAP.

Maybe sit on those BFX tokens for few more days,then dump those if things don't look much better by then,or hold if things look stable 

Best of luck,hope ya learned something from this 

Even if your very rich,losing that much "investment" has got to sting abit..............

I lost a lot more from the price drop.

I don't believe they are going to open BFX tokens to be sold for a while. Even then, we are all relying on $65 million worth of investment to come in and buy those tokens. I'll do what I can to be in the front of the line for anyone wanting to buy.

[Denker]

I was able to log into my Bitfinex account. Of the 31 bitcoins I have a balance of 20 bitcoins (which I will withdraw immediately once the option is available). I have 412 USD and about 7000 BFX (tokens).

I have no idea why I have dollars on there, I've never had dollars on there. I'll be buying bitcoins with them and withdrawing those as well.

As for the whole token concept. I had been working with an international company for quite some time and we had been trying to come up with a way to sell shares to raise our initial funding. With the company being based in Belize with Bitcoin as our main currency and the blockchain being used for tracking our shares we would not be like any other company. But with half of the board living in the US and not wanting to lose US customers we had to figure out a way to word things so that we were not offering "shares" or "dollars" or anything else that had some sort of legal connotation. We played around with the idea of tokens because any company can sell tokens. We planned on selling a set amount of them being a percentage share of our company. But when talking to lawyers we found out that linking a token's value to shares of the company would defacto turn it into shares and subject us to all sorts of rules and limitations that just wouldn't work for us. I kinda lost confidence in our business model when we still decided to go with a "token" type of setup but not a limited number and turned it into more of a membership model with not much reward (that I can see) for being a member. But I'm just the IT guy so I am leaving it in the hands of our marketing guy to figure it all out.

I would like to see Bitfinex define what exactly a BFX represents and make sure it is set in stone. Otherwise I will just cash them out. Their initial value is being set to $1 each.

If they are actually representative of a percentage share of their company with dividends then I would consider keeping them. But they likely cannot say that legally, so they become a very shitty centralized alt coin with unlimited printing ability that you can't use for anything.

I expect a lot of user who don't full verification for withdrawing USD will buy asmuch bitcoins as they can to be able to withdraw from the exchange. So for a short while I could imagine Bitcoin will get pumped in price up to $1000 on Bitfinex!
Will be very interesting to watch.

[savetherainforest]

I was able to log into my Bitfinex account. Of the 31 bitcoins I have a balance of 20 bitcoins (which I will withdraw immediately once the option is available). I have 412 USD and about 7000 BFX (tokens).


[...]

Many people will probably do the same.. and will make the price to go BOOM!!!

Btw... I like your sleeping hours Elwar... it shows that you are a trader... hehe..


And btw... I think the next thing will happen in the future: From my perspective.. there will be 3 entities.. the White legal Markets... the Black Markets... and Limbo Markets .. that is a in-between market that no one knows who owns those transactions and if they are used for good or for evil..

And basically the White is a police state 100% full surveillance... And they will accept trade from other Whites... Also they will accept from Limbo... and they will try to "conquer" back what was stolen by infiltrating the Black ... But they will not accept as payment what is from Black... but confiscate it, but still not accepting it. And Black will deal with the other Black Markets... And Limbo will deal with Limbo, but they will not buy coins from the Black Markets ... but they will sell sometimes to the Black Markets, the Limbo Market coins...  And that's kinda what I thought about it... What do you guys think?

[adamstgBit]

I was able to log into my Bitfinex account. Of the 31 bitcoins I have a balance of 20 bitcoins (which I will withdraw immediately once the option is available). I have 412 USD and about 7000 BFX (tokens).

thank you Elwar i was fishing for this info for a while.
*pulls out calculator *
so, that means ~75million BFX coins have been issued.
now... wtf are these coins going to be back by, 10% of bitfinex inc.   80% of bitfinex inc. ??
can't lie, i am excited to buy this shit token.
i might actually deposit bitcoins into bitfinex asap. 

[Elwar]

Btw... I like your sleeping hours Elwar... it shows that you are a trader... hehe..

Nah, I just live in Europe.

[Elwar]

I was able to log into my Bitfinex account. Of the 31 bitcoins I have a balance of 20 bitcoins (which I will withdraw immediately once the option is available). I have 412 USD and about 7000 BFX (tokens).

thank you Elwar i was fishing for this info for a while.
*pulls out calculator *
so, that means ~75million BFX coins have been issued.
now... wtf are these coins going to be back by, 10% of bitfinex inc.   80% of bitfinex inc. ??
can't lie, i am excited to buy this shit token.
i might actually deposit bitcoins into bitfinex asap. 

This is all that matters.

I have only seen "BFX tokens, which can eventually be exchanged for shares of Bitfinex".

Whatever that means.

[savetherainforest]

Btw... I like your sleeping hours Elwar... it shows that you are a trader... hehe..

Nah, I just live in Europe.

I know that you live in Europe... your polish and you live in Poland or something like that... I'm from Europe as well... Moved to Italy for a 2-3 years vacation so I can write my new books and trading in the rest of the time... Sleep is a bit weird, but all is fine in Europe, everyone clubbing till morning everywhere, but is good that I live in the suburbia, ambulances and fire trucks not bothering me that much.

*Edit: That DaRude guy also has weird sleeping hours... He probably trades as well.. 100%.

[celebreze32]

I was able to log into my Bitfinex account. Of the 31 bitcoins I have a balance of 20 bitcoins (which I will withdraw immediately once the option is available). I have 412 USD and about 7000 BFX (tokens).

thank you Elwar i was fishing for this info for a while.
*pulls out calculator *
so, that means ~75million BFX coins have been issued.
now... wtf are these coins going to be back by, 10% of bitfinex inc.   80% of bitfinex inc. ??
can't lie, i am excited to buy this shit token.
i might actually deposit bitcoins into bitfinex asap.  

This is all that matters.

I have only seen "BFX tokens, which can eventually be exchanged for shares of Bitfinex".

Whatever that means.

The Bitfinex blog says it will either redeem them in full, or possibly exchange them upon the creditor’s request and Bitfinex’s acceptance for shares of iFinex Inc. Bitfinex isn't guaranteeing to exchange them for Bitfinex shares. Unless it gives a guarantee the token will only be backed by Bitfinex's promises.

http://blog.bitfinex.com/uncategorized/bitfinex-interim-update/

The BFX tokens will remain outstanding until redeemed in full by Bitfinex or possibly exchanged—upon the creditor’s request and Bitfinex’s acceptance—for shares of iFinex Inc.

[Globb0]

So they wont have a variable value? just 1$ and you can one day maybe swap them for 1$  ?

[celebreze32]

So they wont have a variable value? just 1$ and you can one day maybe swap them for 1$  ?

They say the token will have a blockchain, it will start at $1 value, and they will let people trade it (possibly apart from US customers). That suggests it will be like a normal coin with a wallet. If Bitfinex lets people withdraw the tokens then other exchanges will probably start trading it.

[JimboToronto]

Good mornin' Bitcoinland.

Flat at $590 I see. Pretty much where we were before the Finex hack became known.

Was the preceding dip from $650 to $600 perhaps based on insider knowledge?

Time to sit back and watch.

[Karartma1]

I'm sorry but I hate the idea of giving finex the ability to issue "tokens" to their customers.
It means that every time shit happens they can "trick the system" as they please.

That looks like some sort of QE to me. Am I the only one who sees it that way?

[NewbieTreider]

Good mornin' Bitcoinland.

Flat at $590 I see. Pretty much where we were before the Finex hack became known.

Was the preceding dip from $650 to $600 perhaps based on insider knowledge?

Time to sit back and watch.

Good point of view. Several days from $650 to $600, until bitfinex hack, and then... uhmmmm

[Elwar]

I'm sorry but I hate the idea of giving finex the ability to issue "tokens" to their customers.
It means that every time shit happens they can "trick the system" as they please.

That looks like some sort of QE to me. Am I the only one who sees it that way?

It will make other exchanges think twice when they go to spend money on extra security measures. They can just "do what BitFinex did" if anything bad ever happens.

[JayJuanGee]

So, who is going to be stupid enough to lay a finger on their BFX tokens?

i'm a sucker for a sweet deal that no one wants to touch.

That poll... so judging by the 36% haircut, we can assume that 20% - 25% of the total was thieved!... And by that we can assume it is more than 250$ million if it was the total...  But keeping in mind the current rate and the imminent bitcoin potential rise, we can say for the short term(30days) 500$ million would have sufficed, with the adjustment to inflation. But they don't have 100% ... because part of that was erased with the theft. So 250$ million would have been more appropriate and a good deal for the exchange price we have now on hand.

What you are saying makes little sense.

I don't know how a company could be valued based on the amount of customer funds that they supposedly hold, as that same value.  Let's say that they held approximately $500 million in customer funds, that does not make them worth $500 million, but maybe (best case scenario) holding value (and being able to profit from the trading of that value) could make them worth 10% of the value that they hold?

[adamstgBit]

So they wont have a variable value? just 1$ and you can one day maybe swap them for 1$  ?

They say the token will have a blockchain, it will start at $1 value, and they will let people trade it (possibly apart from US customers). That suggests it will be like a normal coin with a wallet. If Bitfinex lets people withdraw the tokens then other exchanges will probably start trading it.

where do they say this token will have a blockchain?

[adamstgBit]

So, who is going to be stupid enough to lay a finger on their BFX tokens?

i'm a sucker for a sweet deal that no one wants to touch.

That poll... so judging by the 36% haircut, we can assume that 20% - 25% of the total was thieved!... And by that we can assume it is more than 250$ million if it was the total...  But keeping in mind the current rate and the imminent bitcoin potential rise, we can say for the short term(30days) 500$ million would have sufficed, with the adjustment to inflation. But they don't have 100% ... because part of that was erased with the theft. So 250$ million would have been more appropriate and a good deal for the exchange price we have now on hand.

What you are saying makes little sense.

I don't know how a company could be valued based on the amount of customer funds that they supposedly hold, as that same value.  Let's say that they held approximately $500 million in customer funds, that does not make them worth $500 million, but maybe (best case scenario) holding value (and being able to profit from the trading of that value) could make them worth 10% of the value that they hold?

the amount of customer funds they hold is a liability, not an asset.

the only thing that makes bitfinex valuable is that they turn a profit

[celebreze32]

So they wont have a variable value? just 1$ and you can one day maybe swap them for 1$  ?

They say the token will have a blockchain, it will start at $1 value, and they will let people trade it (possibly apart from US customers). That suggests it will be like a normal coin with a wallet. If Bitfinex lets people withdraw the tokens then other exchanges will probably start trading it.

where do they say this token will have a blockchain?

In this comment, they say it will be a token on a blockchain so I assume that means it will have its own blockchain unless its like a counterparty asset.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4wng7l/site_relaunch_bitfinex_blog/d68xbcm

I assume that means it will be a coin premined with the number of tokens they have issued. I don't know if it will be POW, POS, or mineable. All they say is it will have a blockchain, and I can't think of any point of one unless it allows customers to withdraw their tokens to their own wallet.