Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[savetherainforest]

So... they just need to create the perfect incentive.

How about "Trust us with your money, get 64% of your money back ...maybe."

Would that work?

"Security of user information and funds is our first priority.
Every detail is analyzed to avoid security holes. We pride ourselves on being the most secure Bitcoin exchange. Bitch." --https://www.bitfinex.com/security_policy

Way to go on the low hanging fruit there, with that security sucker punch you applied... But how about you stop being so angry.. and eat a damn Snickers bar! ... And enjoy the fact that we are one hundred more pages away till we celebrate 16k posts.

[JayJuanGee]

[Edited out]

Yeah that's not how company valuation works. Right now their balance sheet is in red by ~$120MM (meaning they have $120MM more in liabilities more than assets)
Also if you think this "incident" will have no effect on their market share (their daily volume) or their "goodwill" you're delusional

I think that you meant to say $72 million.  The concession seems to be that Bitfinex lost around 120k Bitcoin, which was valued around $72 million.

there balance sheet is not in the red, with the haircut and tokens they should balance just fine. no?

I think that you are correct, that the amount of the bail out by the customer base was designed to keep them more or less in the same position that they were prior to the 120k loss..... but certainly, we do not know the whole picture.  Bitfinex has disclosed whatever they have disclosed, and they also said that they are going to provide more specifics in the future - but they have not promised to disclose everything, including disclosing their whole balance sheets or other financial information (operating costs and trading income).. We can guess and infer, but I think that we have to continue to take whatever they say with a grain of salt, even when it sounds pretty plausible and even when it sounds like a fairly decent plan to go forward.

[LogHangingConsortium]

So... they just need to create the perfect incentive.

How about "Trust us with your money, get 64% of your money back ...maybe."

Would that work?

"Security of user information and funds is our first priority.
Every detail is analyzed to avoid security holes. We pride ourselves on being the most secure Bitcoin exchange. Bitch." --https://www.bitfinex.com/security_policy

Way to go on the low hanging fruit there, with that security sucker punch you applied

Why would anyone reach for anything other than the low-hanging fruit?! Because they need to make simple tasks as difficult as they possibly can?

there balance sheet is not in the red, with the haircut and tokens they should balance just fine. no?

Hey, they can keep 64%, and then they'll really be in the black, making BFX tokens super valuable, because profitable co., in the black $70 mil
Pretty cool how I turned that into PROFIT!, huh? I'm the CEO this community needs and richly deserves.

[adamstgBit]

[Edited out]

Yeah that's not how company valuation works. Right now their balance sheet is in red by ~$120MM (meaning they have $120MM more in liabilities more than assets)
Also if you think this "incident" will have no effect on their market share (their daily volume) or their "goodwill" you're delusional

I think that you meant to say $72 million.  The concession seems to be that Bitfinex lost around 120k Bitcoin, which was valued around $72 million.

there balance sheet is not in the red, with the haircut and tokens they should balance just fine. no?

I think that you are correct, that the amount of the bail out by the customer base was designed to keep them more or less in the same position that they were prior to the 120k loss..... but certainly, we do not know the whole picture.  Bitfinex has disclosed whatever they have disclosed, and they also said that they are going to provide more specifics in the future - but they have not promised to disclose everything, including disclosing their whole balance sheets or other financial information (operating costs and trading income).. We can guess and infer, but I think that we have to continue to take whatever they say with a grain of salt, even when it sounds pretty plausible and even when it sounds like a fairly decent plan to go forward.

right transparency will be required going forward
if they can show us some reports and prove they do infact own X amount of bitcoin
this will make there BFX tokens worth somthing.
investors are not going to touch these tokens without knowing some specific details about the company. ( i wouldn't...)
but this is basic shit, i dont see why bitfinex would not provide that, altho it is understandable that they do not offer this "report" at this time.
I imagine they are working like mad fools to get their system secured and ready for full operations again.
I assume they will deliver there "report" at the same time that they tell us what the deal with the BFX tokens will be.

[RGR991]

Lol at anyone who thinks Finex can "deduct" 36% from customers, hand out these obscure "tokens" and continue business as usual.  

Finex likely will not exist by the end of 2016

[LogHangingConsortium]

I imagine they are working like mad fools to get their system secured and ready for full operations again.

That's how you do it. Pull a few all-nighters, chew on some addies, and in the end? Your system is bulletproof. As it always was.

That new poll...  Going by BFX financials available to us, I'd say anywhere from -$250 million to +$250 million. Closer to -$72 million, but can't substantiate that.

[JayJuanGee]

Lol at anyone who thinks Finex can "deduct" 36% from customers, hand out these obscure "tokens" and continue business as usual.  

Finex likely will not exist by the end of 2016

You have a right to your opinion, but when you are proclaiming in broad brushes, you sound more ridiculous than what you are attempting to rebutt.

Remember just last week after the exchange went down and after we heard about the news of their losses, many folks were proclaiming that they would never come back online again.. blah, blah, blah, the sky is falling.

In the last few days, Bitfinex has communicated a fairly decent plan forward...

Surely, the plan may not be anywhere near perfect, and the exchange may still be engaging in scammy behavior, but in the end, their outline of a plan seems to be a pretty fair attempt at balancing a few factors to create incentives for people to stay invested in using their exchange services and without making a run on the bank.

You are creating a strawman argument if you are asserting that anyone is really of the belief that business at Bitfinex is going to be "as usual." 

There are some innovations with the Bitfinex planned way forward, and they are going to have to continue to finesse such plans, make better efforts at securing their platform and continue to communicate the efforts that they are employ.

[DonQuijote]

how affect bitfinex? where I can see an analysis of what happened in bitfinex ?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

how affect bitfinex? where I can see an analysis of what happened in bitfinex ?

Yeah, some things happened while you were away. There was an...incident.

[adamstgBit]

how affect bitfinex? where I can see an analysis of what happened in bitfinex ?

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/after-the-bitfinex-hack-here-s-why-bitstamp-is-sticking-with-bitgo-1470669567
https://www.bitfinex.com/posts
this is basically all that we know.

i dont think there is any formal public information/analysis of what happened in bitfinex.

[adamstgBit]

so how will the price be effected when bitfinex longs start from 0 and grow back to 40million?

[chesthing]

Sounds like just another inside job to me. Call it a hack and enjoy life in the caribbean.

[LogHangingConsortium]

so how will the price be effected when bitfinex longs start from 0 and grow back to 40million?

Interesting question. Here's another: You think they'll allow the same p2p-funded leverage? Because that funky 3-of-2 wallet solution is how they got passing grades from CFTC & how they got "hacked." Maybe someone who cares should ask that Zane kid.
And another: Is anyone crazy enough to keep lending coin there? Fuck yeah? K, sorry, no more dumb questions.

[adamstgBit]

so how will the price be effected when bitfinex longs start from 0 and grow back to 40million?

Interesting question. Here's another: You think they'll allow the same p2p-funded leverage? Because that funky 3-of-2 wallet solution is how they got passing grades from CFTC & how they got "hacked." Maybe someone who cares should ask that Zane kid.
And another: Is anyone crazy enough to keep lending coin there? Fuck yeah? K, sorry, no more dumb questions.

Yes, I am stupid enough to continue to use the exchange

hhehehehehe

[RGR991]

Lol at anyone who thinks Finex can "deduct" 36% from customers, hand out these obscure "tokens" and continue business as usual.  

Finex likely will not exist by the end of 2016

You have a right to your opinion, but when you are proclaiming in broad brushes, you sound more ridiculous than what you are attempting to rebutt.

Remember just last week after the exchange went down and after we heard about the news of their losses, many folks were proclaiming that they would never come back online again.. blah, blah, blah, the sky is falling.

In the last few days, Bitfinex has communicated a fairly decent plan forward...

Surely, the plan may not be anywhere near perfect, and the exchange may still be engaging in scammy behavior, but in the end, their outline of a plan seems to be a pretty fair attempt at balancing a few factors to create incentives for people to stay invested in using their exchange services and without making a run on the bank.

You are creating a strawman argument if you are asserting that anyone is really of the belief that business at Bitfinex is going to be "as usual."  

There are some innovations with the Bitfinex planned way forward, and they are going to have to continue to finesse such plans, make better efforts at securing their platform and continue to communicate the efforts that they are employ.

There is no proof that the Finex hack was not an inside job. Anyone who can trust them after they seized 36% of your balance boggles my mind.

The tokens are there to limit their legal liability in this case, US traders(which btw I would wager make a huge portion of their base) won't even be able to "Trade" these tokens, which probably will nosedive in value once the "select few" get to trade these "tokens"



I've seen better from bucketshops such as simplefx and 1broker. LOL. In fact I would trust them more at this point.

There will be better exchanges, more trusted and more secure exchanges. Not some random company based out of an office building in HongKong who uses reddit as their main means of communication.

[chesthing]

They are all inside jobs. MtGox, Mintpal, Cryptorush, Cryptsy, Bter, what am I missing? other than Bitfinex...

[JayJuanGee]

Lol at anyone who thinks Finex can "deduct" 36% from customers, hand out these obscure "tokens" and continue business as usual.  

Finex likely will not exist by the end of 2016

You have a right to your opinion, but when you are proclaiming in broad brushes, you sound more ridiculous than what you are attempting to rebutt.

Remember just last week after the exchange went down and after we heard about the news of their losses, many folks were proclaiming that they would never come back online again.. blah, blah, blah, the sky is falling.

In the last few days, Bitfinex has communicated a fairly decent plan forward...

Surely, the plan may not be anywhere near perfect, and the exchange may still be engaging in scammy behavior, but in the end, their outline of a plan seems to be a pretty fair attempt at balancing a few factors to create incentives for people to stay invested in using their exchange services and without making a run on the bank.

You are creating a strawman argument if you are asserting that anyone is really of the belief that business at Bitfinex is going to be "as usual."  

There are some innovations with the Bitfinex planned way forward, and they are going to have to continue to finesse such plans, make better efforts at securing their platform and continue to communicate the efforts that they are employ.

There is no proof that the Finex hack was not an inside job. Anyone who can trust them after they seized 36% of your balance boggles my mind.

More or less you are correct that there is no proof that Finex hack was not an inside job, and there is no proof that it was, either.

Accordingly, absent direct evidence, we have a variety of inferences based on indirect evidence, and sure the whole set up looks fishy, but so fucking what?  If we do not have direct evidence, then we got what we got, and a variety of people are going to come to a variety of conclusions in order to decide what to do and how to proceed.  At this point, we are merely speculating because nobody has any access to any of the funds and the total Bitfinex website is read only.

Nonetheless, Bitfinex has communicated a plan that is going to allow them to reopen and to continue with a business model that may or may not generate confidence.. time will tell.

It is not crazy that people will trust and it is not crazy that people may be sceptical and only begin to trust slowly and it is not crazy that some people will NOT trust at all.  It's called a variety of people, a variety of responses and Bitfinex is likely going to attempt to create a scenario that will cause an incentive for folks to continue to use their services or to begin to use their services (that's called new customers).

The tokens are there to limit their legal liability in this case, US traders(which btw I would wager make a huge portion of their base) won't even be able to "Trade" these tokens, which probably will nosedive in value once the "select few" get to trade these "tokens"

So are you saying that you don't want companies to engage in actions to limit their legal liability?

The creation of the coin may have been premeditated or not, and it doesn't really matter.  The coin as being proposed as a means to force a loan onto their existing customer base, exactly as they described it.. and sure there is likely a bit of an experimental aspect concerning whether this will work or whether they will get away with it.

I will concede with you that the US customers are likely a large base.. maybe even half or more.. but, we don't really know at this point, and we don't really know the restrictions, yet, so it is likely a bit premature to speculate specifics concerning whether US customers are going to be completely stuck with the BFX coins or if there will be some liquidation avenues for the US customers.

I've seen better from bucketshops such as simplefx and 1broker. LOL. In fact I would trust them more at this point.

Good for you, and of course, each of us are going to come to differing conclusions regarding the level of trust, if any to give.

There will be better exchanges, more trusted and more secure exchanges. Not some random company based out of an office building in HongKong who uses reddit as their main means of communication.

Yes, there are way more exchanges now than there were in 2013, and exchanges are going to continue to develop.

I would not characterize Bitfinex as some kind of rinky dink exchange, because they did have the largest traded USD/BTC volume of any exchanges, but that passed standing does not necessarily mean that they are going to return to those old glory days.... but it also does not mean that they cannot build and regenerate enough good will in order to maintain such a leading spot.

[JayJuanGee]

They are all inside jobs. MtGox, Mintpal, Cryptorush, Cryptsy, Bter, what am I missing? other than Bitfinex...

Bitstamp January 2015-ish

[gentlemand]

There will be better exchanges, more trusted and more secure exchanges. Not some random company based out of an office building in HongKong who uses reddit as their main means of communication.

There are better ones right now, but they don't have that juicy leverage. It's not as if the red flags regarding Bitfinex hadn't been there since minute one. Bitcoiners are like a stupid Labrador being battered repeatedly by their owner and coming right back with a slobbery grin on their face hoping for a different outcome. I was kind of hoping we were well past this shit by now.

[NewbieTreider]

They are all inside jobs. MtGox, Mintpal, Cryptorush, Cryptsy, Bter, what am I missing? other than Bitfinex...

And someone, or a group of them or their friends knew it, for that reason the price went down before