Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[klondike_bar]

I keep thinking about transferring a chunk of my retirement funds into Bitcoin. Would be a good investment, especially with the recent currency manipulation being done by govts.

Your retirement funds are in fiat?

The very first coins I bought for $68 back in early 2013 were bought specifically as a retirement fund, or rather as a nest egg for my old age as I was already mostly retired. I was 64 years old at the time and had no real retirement funds per se.

This is why I accumulate and spend only when absolutely necessary.

Keeping your retirement funds in ever-devaluing fiat is silly. Overall, Bitcoin has increased in spending power while the value of fiat has dwindled.

the trick is the $ retirement accounts are best used to invest in the stock market. basic intelligent investing will have a better return (3-7%) than the rate of inflation (2-3%)

[practicaldreamer]

I keep thinking about transferring a chunk of my retirement funds into Bitcoin. Would be a good investment, especially with the recent currency manipulation being done by govts.

Your retirement funds are in fiat?

The very first coins I bought for $68 back in early 2013 were bought specifically as a retirement fund, or rather as a nest egg for my old age as I was already mostly retired. I was 64 years old at the time and had no real retirement funds per se.

This is why I accumulate and spend only when absolutely necessary.

Keeping your retirement funds in ever-devaluing fiat is silly. Overall, Bitcoin has increased in spending power while the value of fiat has dwindled.

the trick is the $ retirement accounts are best used to invest in the stock market. basic intelligent investing will have a better return (3-7%) than the rate of inflation (2-3%)

Property and other personal tangible assets aside, I reckon maybe 80% of my net worth is in stocks (and bonds unfortunately - via my pension scheme - they are statutorily bound to invest in (low yielding) bonds - low risk etc ). I am exposed to gold in an ETF, and of course bitcoin for the rest.
I'm not so sure about having the gold in an ETF TBH, though it has been giving good returns. Just a bit worried about their solvency long term. Just seems better than holding physical gold, for various reasons.
I have considered diverting some of my pension funds to an BTC ETF myself - but on balance I'd prefer, for the reasons stated by lightfoot, to hold my own, so to speak.

[ssmc2]

China taking us up again? 

[practicaldreamer]

What happened to Stolfi on this thread ?

I miss his intelligent lack of nous.

[gembitz]

/\BTCITCOIN===>$1000
*then TO THE MOON!//^


  

[anonbit992]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

It seems that our frantic bull run has been slowed by resistance at $900 and we're still consolidating... presently $898 at Bitcoinaverage.

What will Santa Claus bring us? A nice gift or a lump of coal?

It is hard to say but I am expecting bitcoin to give some decent returns to all the holders. I think bitcoin can cross 1000 USD by Jan 1, 2017. The move has already began, we can see some selling and side ways movement in price, but it will take off eventually.

[hulla]

Xmas correction to 860$ and then rocket goes to moon?

Is not even $860. It was $800 and now the price it going $900 cos the current price is $899. Rocket does go to the moon

[rogerwilco]

Is this not a head and shoulders forming?

[jbreher]

I'm not so sure about having the gold in an ETF TBH, though it has been giving good returns. Just a bit worried about their solvency long term. Just seems better than holding physical gold, for various reasons.

I hope you are already aware that there is nowhere near enough actual gold in the world to redeem each unit of 'paper gold'.

[jbreher]

I'm prepared to purchase more of bitcoins for $800, but not for more than that.

Best of luck - you may end up crying with a big pile of stinky fiat in your hand as the price moons.

[practicaldreamer]

I'm not so sure about having the gold in an ETF TBH, though it has been giving good returns. Just a bit worried about their solvency long term. Just seems better than holding physical gold, for various reasons.

I hope you are already aware that there is nowhere near enough actual gold in the world to redeem each unit of 'paper gold'.

Yes - that is my concern. I'm just hoping that the circumstances under which the paper might ever need to be redeemed are a long way away I suppose. But it is a bit of a gamble, I grant you. People were saying the same thing about credit in 2007.
I'd love some physical gold, but a) not the same tax advantages in the UK  and b) security concerns.

What you really need is a fireproof and obfuscated passphrase to your wealth held in your possession. Something like this :-



No tax advantages - but it has outperformed all my other investments by a country mile over the last few years.

God bless the Chinese - God bless us all.

[Fakhoury]

Happy Holidays Bitcoiners!

[yefi]

the trick is the $ retirement accounts are best used to invest in the stock market. basic intelligent investing will have a better return (3-7%) than the rate of inflation (2-3%)

Pension funds are fubarred. They have liabilities they cannot cover. With bond yields at historical lows, they are struggling to meet their promises of a fixed return. Furthermore, this struggle is forcing them into riskier securities, such as stocks and repackaged junk debt. What happens when the next recession hits, or, as is more probable, the next crash? These purported stalwarts of financial responsibility are going to come crashing down themselves, like the twilight of the gods, taking their hapless investors with them.

[practicaldreamer]

the trick is the $ retirement accounts are best used to invest in the stock market. basic intelligent investing will have a better return (3-7%) than the rate of inflation (2-3%)

Pension funds are fubarred. They have liabilities they cannot cover. With bond yields at historical lows, they are struggling to meet their promises of a fixed return. Furthermore, this struggle is forcing them into riskier securities, such as stocks and repackaged junk debt. What happens when the next recession hits, or, as is more probable, the next crash? These purported stalwarts of financial responsibility are going to come crashing down themselves, like the twilight of the gods, taking their hapless investors with them.

Possibly.
However, the Fed has pencilled in interest rates of 3% come 2019 - this, from .25% a few weeks ago. Bond rates will follow. This will change the game for pension funds.

[79b79aa8d5047da6d3XX]

The economy needs to be stable or improving steadily from now till 2019 for that pencilled-in scenario to be signed in ink. Right now it looks like a pipe dream. Until then, economists will assure you everything is fine, and if and when it isn't, they will say the fall was unforeseeable.

[tabnloz]

the trick is the $ retirement accounts are best used to invest in the stock market. basic intelligent investing will have a better return (3-7%) than the rate of inflation (2-3%)

Pension funds are fubarred. They have liabilities they cannot cover. With bond yields at historical lows, they are struggling to meet their promises of a fixed return. Furthermore, this struggle is forcing them into riskier securities, such as stocks and repackaged junk debt. What happens when the next recession hits, or, as is more probable, the next crash? These purported stalwarts of financial responsibility are going to come crashing down themselves, like the twilight of the gods, taking their hapless investors with them.

spain just reported that its social security will be unfunded within a year, 2 billion in deficit. This is after having a 65bn surplus in 2011.

I also don't expect to have retirement money there when I retire.

For me bitcoin is a store of value outside of govt control. Not that much invested but enough to do well if it does well.

[lightfoot]

Your retirement funds are in fiat?

Depends. Stocks to a large extent; I bought a fair bit in 2008 and tripled my winnings on the economic recovery. Now that the orange dingbat is in power I'm moving about 40% into cash reserves, then deciding what to do with that. The other 60% can stay in a mix of global technology (hell, the rest of the world can do all the tech stuff we will sink to mine coal or something) and basic dividend growth stocks (think toilet paper/stuff you need no matter what).

Bitcoin and gold are a nice counterbalance. I've been earning it for awhile now (and paying taxes in fiat on every satoshi). To date I don't think I have ever bought a bitcoin; not sure how actually. :-)

C

[orpington]

Can we hit $1000 soon?

I'm getting bored...

[Sundark]

the trick is the $ retirement accounts are best used to invest in the stock market. basic intelligent investing will have a better return (3-7%) than the rate of inflation (2-3%)

Pension funds are fubarred. They have liabilities they cannot cover. With bond yields at historical lows, they are struggling to meet their promises of a fixed return. Furthermore, this struggle is forcing them into riskier securities, such as stocks and repackaged junk debt. What happens when the next recession hits, or, as is more probable, the next crash? These purported stalwarts of financial responsibility are going to come crashing down themselves, like the twilight of the gods, taking their hapless investors with them.

spain just reported that its social security will be unfunded within a year, 2 billion in deficit. This is after having a 65bn surplus in 2011.

I also don't expect to have retirement money there when I retire.

For me bitcoin is a store of value outside of govt control. Not that much invested but enough to do well if it does well.

This problem is more and more apparent in different European countries. Their national retirement programs are proven to be inefficient because society is getting older.
After couple years there won't be enough of young working people who will be able to contribute money to fuel this broken retirement system.
I hope that this future crisis will only strengthen Bitcoin popularity.

[r0ach]

For me bitcoin is a store of value outside of govt control.

You'd have to define if there is actually any form of Nash equilibrium or not.  To answer this question, I present to you:

Bitcoin as a function of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1727889.0