Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[HairyMaclairy]

Anybody keeping track of ETF proceedings? When is the next deadline for SEC release of latest round of excuses?

I have a sneaky feeling there may be some insider news behind some of this market action ... and there's nothing more insider than govt. agents leaking and front-running rulings that favour financial players.

I don't know about an ETF.  I do know that blockchain and distributed ledger technology is finally getting people's attention in mainstream banks.  It's like someone just flipped a switch in the past 3 - 6 months.

Mere buzzwords..so they can blather on about bitcoin without actually mentioning that dirty word..'bitcoin'...

This whole blockchain not bitcoin meme is a load of hot air, you do know that right?

You cannot have a "blockchain" or "distributed ledger technology" without a native token, everyone here knows this, right?

How are you going to make entries into your distributed ledger? With Cats?? Or just by magic??

Can't have one without the other, simple as. So, they can call it whatever they like, all while trying to avoid using certain words but they're only fooling themselves.

Or wilfully trying to delude themselves...or, they just actually don't effing get it.

Andreas Antonopolous made a nice analogy..I'm paraphrasing here:

Horse and cart is the existing technology...
Someone invents a motorcar!

'Blockchain not bitcoin' minded people say: Wow.. we really like this pnematic tyre technology you guys have come up with and want to adapt this for our horse and carts. But we really don't see any potential for the motorcar as a whole.. we are only interested in hte underlying technology of the pneumatic tyres!  

Back on topic: There is no word yet on a possible ETF decision date. Some commentators believing the SEC could kick it down the road as long as possible. Other voices reckon it will happen soon.
The most recent news, are that COIN ETF got a logo, back at start of Dec. and the twins were again 'talking up' bitcoin, also early Dec.

EDIT: Beaten to it.. !

Hi. I work with financial institutions and Bitcoin is still a dirty word to them. I'm not supporting that point of view - just saying what I am seeing.  Also the banks are hell bent on building their own alt-coins.  They just haven't figured out that no one will trust a private ledger.  You can thank Mike Hearn for that one.  The R3 / Corda technical white paper was released about a month ago.

[HairyMaclairy]

$1025 on BFX.  Now less than 700 coins on the ramp to $1030.  This shit is making me nervous it's going up too fast!  And more fiat to hit the exchanges in USA in a few hours I expect. 

[Tzupy]

While Chinese exchanges are consolidating, hopefully before another (probably last) push, the western ones are at last trying to catch up.

[HairyMaclairy]

1028 - 509 coins to 1030.

[HairyMaclairy]

332 coins to 1030 on BFX

[HairyMaclairy]

$1029 on BFX.  267 coins to go. 

[Searing]

$3K per BTC by end of 2017 or bust....

I thought it was $3200 as decreed by that ancient oracle "adamstgBit" who has passed on to another realm.

So is it written. Verily it shall come to pass.

Lets first reach 2017 $  in 2017.


 

Lets first reach 800$ in 800 hours.

You had 3 years to buy bitcoin, and nearly a year of prices below $300, and you didn't buy any?    

Oh, and remember last year, there were about 6 months of prices between $300 and $450

And plus you registered here in July, so you had nearly 6 months of prices below $800 and a couple of months with prices below $600 (remember August and September 2016?).

What you said struck me as funny in 20/20 hindsight...hoarded all BTC mined (except equip and elec btc and then ltc miners..still ltc mining roi'd)

I got in Oct 18th 2013 with a KNC 550gh Jupiter BTC Miner (price of btc that day 150 usd)  and all the way thru now with 3150mh KNC Titan Scrypt miners...ROI'd (love that KNC  bankruptcy sale this year!)

anyway..my point is...I'm either completely and utterly out of my mind for holding from 2013 at 150 even in 0ct 18th 2013 till now at as I look $1011 usd...sheesh....or I am some kinda brilliant Bitcoin Cyrypto-currency Savant! My friends have gone from thinking I've lost my frigging mind in 2013 to being pissed off at me ..at still being BTC crazy and now I'm 'lucky'
to boot (a guy just can't win I tell ya)

Either way it is ridiculous me still holding most after all this time (100.07 btc now..making yet 2 btc a month via LTC profit after electric). I mean is this 'sensible' in 20/20 hindsight
with all the fud/drama/scams/equip ripoffs/etc etc from then till now?

hell guess I'll just continue onward and let it roll.....(can't figure this out.... I'm usually such a chicken sh*t/coward on this kinda stuff with real $$$$) go figure

I will now 'blunder' on with my mostly  'clueless' if unintentionally somehow brilliant plan...why mess with success.....

besides seems to work for the white mouse below:

Hahahahahaha

The new and confident Searing...

I recall exchanging several messages with you in 2014 and 2015 as BTC prices were dropping and you were trying to figure how far in the red you were at various points, and even seeming kind of depressed, from time to time about the seeming lack of profitability if the BTC prices continued to fall.


Sure, both of us were in a similar situation, except you had always communicated about your investment into the mining equipment, that brings an additional risk and even an additional way of investing your time...

It is great to see that the matter of your persistence is paying off... not just because you can show your friends, but also that it gives you some greater flexibility and cushion with your finances and choosing whether to take profits, hold or continue to invest.

I do think that it could be good to take some profits along the way and maybe take a little bit of profits in the future may not be a bad idea.. I cannot say exactly what price point, because it appears to be possibly going exponential (but maybe take a little of the table in the $1060 to $1180 price arena), and then maybe if prices go past that point then wait until the $2k arena for the next profit taking?  hahahaha.. what the fuck do I know?

yeah i used to sign my msgs (KNC the no ROI miner) when I just had the one at full boat price of $10,131.80 in Nov 2014...boy was I wrong

I figure I maybe can mine another 10 BTC but I take your point....so what is the diff really if BTC goes to 5k each and a guy was to take 10 off for profits and you have 100 btc left.

That is what I'm thinking now. With all the electric I ate up till JULY 2016 (6.5k) from start oct 18th 2013 with knc jupiter. and 10,131.80 in original Titan and 7,131.80 in orig
knc jupiter (ah my baby 53 btc out of that before doorstop) I'm at 3200mh scrypt now all the rest of my 9 Titans are paid off etc etc..

anyway mining my elec back and then say the Jupiter and then say the orig titan would go a long way..much more impressive to say you have 100 btc at 0 bucks then right now
me with 3150mh and 100 btc at $25,050 usd invested (since July 2016 paid elec out of coin)

so 110-115 btc say with 25k debt vs say 100 btc no debt...still mining 2 btc a month maybe I should like 'mine my debt down'

also as soon as I sell some..the price of BTC will triple a win for you guys

but all them nice toys....coming out ...with blinking led's etc...so tempting...but yeah should probably punt and mine my debt down....but 25k for 100 btc now and 2 btc a month
yet an't looking too shabby from my 'depressed 210 btc years of 2014 etc) groan

Your various divisions and categorization of expenses are a bit confusing for me, and I am not sure are you really accounting for all the costs?  You do seem to be saying that you bought some items with BTC and other items with dollars, but in the end, what are the total costs?

Unlike you, I don't really like to disclose particulars about how many BTC I own, but I don't mind talking in terms of percentages and averages... or even hypotheticals...

I count all BTC related costs towards my total cost per BTC, including some that I lost on Bitfinex (I have some rough calculations regarding the value of the BFX coins) and some that I lost through one of my remote trades using Venmo (which was actually between 1.5 and 5 BTC.. hahahahaha), and I have some financing related costs (when I was trying to balance out various accounts, I had suffered some finance charges), and various fees related to transactions, yet even when I calculate all of my various BTC related costs, my average cost per BTC is currently running at about $418... but if I sell some or buy some BTC, my actual amount invested could go up or down $10.. but my average cost per BTC has been floating between $418 and $430 for the past month or so...


Anyhow, are you saying that your overall costs per BTC are a bit more than $250 per BTC? or am I missing something?  I always thought that in recent times, that in the long run it would be more profitable to buy the BTC rather than investing in equipment, electricity, and various associated mining costs.  But if you are averaging a bit over $250 per BTC, then the more power to you.... although buying some of the BTC outright in late 2013 would have been less than $250, except maybe the quantity that you would have gotten would have been less than spending on the equipment?

Have you done a comparison of how many BTC you would have gotten by buying directly and compare to your mining and to see which one has a lower cost per BTC?  Not that you can do anything about it right now.. but if you are only paying electricity at the moment, then maybe your average cost per BTC is continuing to come down, no?

I'm a legal miner..the IRS can find me on coinbase etc I don't care.

As to costs..I figured it out a couple months ago and btc would have to dump to like 201.50 or some such per btc for me to start losing cash.

As to BTC for equipment ...the around 2750 mh of miners I got this year...have ROI'd already..I started with 100 btc in July ..took a loan out..bet on BTC going up
and now I'm at 100.07 btc again...so.....from this point on (so far) I'm making 1900 a month yet..that is profit...less the electric from 2013 till july 2015 (was cash)
and the cash I paid for the orig knc 550gh jupiter 7,131.80 and the 10,131.80 for the orig titan...all else is paid off and did not count psu's etc. So it comes out to
for my current 100.07 btc (or was yesterday) to $25,050 usd invested yet...rest is paid roi'd ...3200mh mining 13200 watts 10c kwh ...so....I think it is 1900 a month
LTC now...

so from this point on...should I mine the DEBT I have left down...or should I hold/hoard? above the 100 BTC floor I had before I got the 7 knc titans this last year?

again don't care IRS has my sights on coinbase etc...that is why I have a CPA..

as to openess.......its been a strange trip.....got to vent someplace or I could subtitle the trip: Don't do what I've done........in many,many cases

[kehtolo]

Hi. I work with financial institutions and Bitcoin is still a dirty word to them. I'm not supporting that point of view - just saying what I am seeing.  Also the banks are hell bent on building their own alt-coins.  They just haven't figured out that no one will trust a private ledger.  You can thank Mike Hearn for that one.  The R3 / Corda technical white paper was released about a month ago.

And probably will remain so for a while yet, or until it is obvious to even the most ardent opposer that it will come to pass this way, whether they like it or not (which is irrelevant btw)
Something about a permissionless distributed ledger (let's call it that) in that the permissionless part don't give s shit if you like it or not.. or if you like the name or label..etc.etc.

Read a brilliant tweet in recent weeks, can't seem to find it now, so again paraphrasing:

Bitcoin was invented because banks didn't trust one another.
Then they went and built R3 to prove it!

[HairyMaclairy]

Read a brilliant tweet in recent weeks, can't seem to find it now, so again paraphrasing:

Bitcoin was invented because banks didn't trust one another.
Then they went and built R3 to prove it!

That's hilarious!  I'm not across the detail of Corda enough but suspect anyone on that ledger is taking horrible counterparty risk due to lack of transparency.  Which may be part of the reason a number of banks have pulled out.

[HairyMaclairy]

Turn my back for two seconds and 300+ coin market order on BFX.  Now $1032.  

Huobi 7367 US$1060.

[600watt]

i cannot spent another work day glued to my screen, unable to think anything else but bitcoin. my right arm/shoulder is soar , cannot put the mouse to the left side...  serious bitcoiner problems... i know...

[kehtolo]

Read a brilliant tweet in recent weeks, can't seem to find it now, so again paraphrasing:

Bitcoin was invented because banks didn't trust one another.
Then they went and built R3 to prove it!

That's hilarious!  I'm not across the detail of Corda enough but suspect anyone on that ledger is taking horrible counterparty risk due to lack of transparency.  Which may be part of the reason a number of banks have pulled out.

Without getting into the nuts and bolts, the whole project is a mess of mistrust..it looks destined to fail.

The tweeter was none other than Vinny Lingham.

[JayJuanGee]

$1025 on BFX.  Now less than 700 coins on the ramp to $1030.  This shit is making me nervous it's going up too fast!  And more fiat to hit the exchanges in USA in a few hours I expect. 

I think that banks are closed in the USA... and even if they were open, you cannot get money from the bank as soon as it opens, can you?

[Searing]

$1025 on BFX.  Now less than 700 coins on the ramp to $1030.  This shit is making me nervous it's going up too fast!  And more fiat to hit the exchanges in USA in a few hours I expect. 

I think that banks are closed in the USA... and even if they were open, you cannot get money from the bank as soon as it opens, can you?

Home equity loan you can.....deposit to coinbase or whatever to move it ...unsure..depends on how much that or other accounts let you do on cc or paypal

(resist..must resist.............want to pay the 3k down off on h.e.l. i have now..must resist...)

[gembitz]

Once again I just looked in before going to bed and I see another rally... up to $1022.

Now I want to stay up a little longer.

~sleep lol     up we gooo//^$1200 resistance*

[HairyMaclairy]

$1025 on BFX.  Now less than 700 coins on the ramp to $1030.  This shit is making me nervous it's going up too fast!  And more fiat to hit the exchanges in USA in a few hours I expect. 

I think that banks are closed in the USA... and even if they were open, you cannot get money from the bank as soon as it opens, can you?

Don't they open at 9 am local time on 2 January.  I am thinking of overnight wire transfers clearing.  

[HairyMaclairy]

Guess I better follow Vinny on Twitter then if he is going to come out with pearls like that

[Tzupy]

Bitcoincharts stopped displaying exchange charts since yesterday, about 16 hours ago (just data from that point is missing). Anyone knows why?

[Granxis]

yes finex 1032 is showing up in the meantime. It's going to catch gold for an ounce of price.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

As to costs..I figured it out a couple months ago and btc would have to dump to like 201.50 or some such per btc for me to start losing cash.

That sounds like a pretty decently low average cost per BTC

As to BTC for equipment ...the around 2750 mh of miners I got this year...have ROI'd already..I started with 100 btc in July ..took a loan out..bet on BTC going up
and now I'm at 100.07 btc again...so.....from this point on (so far) I'm making 1900 a month yet..that is profit...less the electric from 2013 till july 2015 (was cash)
and the cash I paid for the orig knc 550gh jupiter 7,131.80 and the 10,131.80 for the orig titan...all else is paid off and did not count psu's etc. So it comes out to
for my current 100.07 btc (or was yesterday) to $25,050 usd invested yet...rest is paid roi'd ...3200mh mining 13200 watts 10c kwh ...so....I think it is 1900 a month
LTC now...

so from this point on...should I mine the DEBT I have left down...or should I hold/hoard? above the 100 BTC floor I had before I got the 7 knc titans this last year?

I personally believe that it is a separate calculation regarding whether you should sell some BTC while the price is going up.  The calculation, in my thinking, is not so much about your costs but instead about the anticipated future price direction of BTC, and whether you believe that you need to protect the value of any of your holdings by selling a bit (and of course you could buy them back cheaper if they were to go cheaper, but if they don't you just have that sell off as a form of insurance).

I have already disclosed on several occasions that I don't really bet on either up or down, but instead I employ a long term strategy that allows me to buy on the way down (because I am using the proceeds from the sales on the way up).  I would not be able to buy on the way down if I did not sell on the way up... but if it does not go back down, I still have the fiat to use for other purposes (besides just having it as insurance)

again don't care IRS has my sights on coinbase etc...that is why I have a CPA..

sure some of the tax implications can become a bit convoluted and helpful to have a CPA to assist with some of the calculations.

as to openess.......its been a strange trip.....got to vent someplace or I could subtitle the trip: Don't do what I've done........in many,many cases

You can chose whatever level of particulars that you want, and if no one provided particulars, then maybe it is more difficult to figure out or to be as helpful to others.  I think that I also provide a considerable amount of particulars without necessarily disclosing my millions of bitcoins in holdings... .whoops... I shouldnt have said anything.