Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Ibian]

What role does shorting play in a market ?

What does it bring to the table ?

Serious question.

Or is it just parasitic ?

 

Of course it's parasitic. All margin trading is.

It's showmen (exchanges) preying on the rubes (traders).

How does it work, for the uninitiated among us?

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[Spaceman_Spiff]

What role does shorting play in a market ?

What does it bring to the table ?

Serious question.

Or is it just parasitic ?

It can be a force to bring an asset to it's proper value.  Let's say somebody starts StupidCoin, which is valued at 2 billion dollar but brings nothing useful to the table and is full with bugs.  Somehow, StupidCoin buyers still believe the marketcap is worth 2 billion.  The only option people have in a buy-only market is to not take part in that market.  When you can short, you can borrow the asset and sell it, thinking it will go down in price.  If you are correct, you will make a profit.  Thus, shorting could moderate irrational markets and help assets find their fair price sooner.  On the other hands, due to the mechanics of leveraged trading, this allows for all sorts of liquidation shenanigans.

[rjclarke2000]

There is only one thing I know....


Hodl on.

[HI-TEC99]

There is only one thing I know....


Hodl on.

Hodling on's safer and less risky than short selling. The exchanges are the only ones sure of making a profit from short selling, for everyone else it's a giant gamble.

[hulla]

There is no doubt in my mind that the peoples of this world desperately need cryptocurrency. They NEED bitcoin.

Governments all over the world are trying to eliminate cash, they are confiscating gold, stealing wealth from the people. They want all your money in a bank account so it can be tracked or taken from you at any time.

The Central Bankers, in their endless greed profit from this system in many ways, endlessly concentrating the vast majority of the world's wealth in the hands of only a few dozen people. This is creating untold suffering and a system of economic slavery that is destroying the planet itself.

The fucking world needs this fucking technology to succeed, god damn it.

We better get our fucking shit together and make this shit fucking work. The scaling issue MUST be solved, one way or another. Core needs to get on board or they need to get kicked the FUCK out.

This isn't just about personal profit, although we will all certainly be billionaires if we succeed. A convenient side effect.

But what it's really about is breaking the yoke of oppression that has been forced on this world by those who have betrayed humanity itself for their own personal wealth.

That's all I have to say.

this.

Yes that's so true cos they are doing this for their selfish reason because the see that the world at latge start believing in bitcoin as the future so they want to kill that future now the price as fall to $891. People we must fight!

[Holliday]

If you are a bitcoin holder who is here to protect himself from the various shenanigans of the fiat monetary system, you should think twice about lending out your bitcoins to short sellers (be the sole controller of your private keys).

If you are a bitcoin speculator who is here to time the market and earn fiat, do whatever you think will help you achieve those ends (keep your coins where they can be traded at a moments notice).

I'm a paranoid son-of-a-bitch and my coins won't ever be available for lending to short sellers. People like me probably add to the volatility of the Bitcoin market. When the price goes up for long periods of time without a significant pullback, I (if I trusted any exchange) would be selling a small portion of my coins in order to buy more when the dumping comes (as it always does). But... since I am a paranoid son of a bitch, I can't provide liquidity during either rallies or crashes and thus the volatility is greater.

Therefor, I will never earn bitcoins because I have bitcoins. I will have to stomach the ups and downs of the market as a bystander. But... I will never lose a single satoshi to goxxing, theft, hacks, poor trading decisions, etc.

Hindsight tells me I could have made a ton of money playing the market. Foresight tells me 20% of the market participants take profits from the other 80% and I would probably be in the 80% (I have too much emotional attachment to Bitcoin).

To each his own.

[becoin]

We better get our fucking shit together and make this shit fucking work. The scaling issue MUST be solved, one way or another. Core needs to get on board or they need to get kicked the FUCK out.

There is NO scaling issue. Bitcoin is working fine and everything is great.

[JimboToronto]

It's showmen (exchanges) preying on the rubes (traders).

How does it work

 

Same as casinos. Get the punters gambling against each other while raking in the vigorish (exchange fees). The higher the stakes, higher the fees.

With unregulated Bitcoin exchanges, they can manipulate the prices enough to trigger the big payoff, margin calls.

It's bad enough to have a zero on the roulette wheel (and a double-zero in some places) but it's the hidden button that really hurts.

Margin trading isn't investing. It's gambling.

[arklan]

We better get our fucking shit together and make this shit fucking work. The scaling issue MUST be solved, one way or another. Core needs to get on board or they need to get kicked the FUCK out.

There is no scaling issue. Bitcoin is working fine and everything is great.

...why... do i not believe you? (quoting Batty from ferm gully, voiced by Robin Williams.)

seriously though - i've been out of the loop for months. has the scaling stuff, bitcoin core v. classic, etc etc, seriously not been solved? Christ in heaven guys.

[Ibian]

We better get our fucking shit together and make this shit fucking work. The scaling issue MUST be solved, one way or another. Core needs to get on board or they need to get kicked the FUCK out.

There is no scaling issue. Bitcoin is working fine and everything is great.

...why... do i not believe you? (quoting Batty from ferm gully, voiced by Robin Williams.)

seriously though - i've been out of the loop for months. has the scaling stuff, bitcoin core v. classic, etc etc, seriously not been solved? Christ in heaven guys.

You saying Jesus has bitcoins?

[arklan]

We better get our fucking shit together and make this shit fucking work. The scaling issue MUST be solved, one way or another. Core needs to get on board or they need to get kicked the FUCK out.

There is no scaling issue. Bitcoin is working fine and everything is great.

...why... do i not believe you? (quoting Batty from ferm gully, voiced by Robin Williams.)

seriously though - i've been out of the loop for months. has the scaling stuff, bitcoin core v. classic, etc etc, seriously not been solved? Christ in heaven guys.

You saying Jesus has bitcoins?

that would require i believe he exists.

[jbreher]

I bet he dumps it all out of spite

Good. It would be one less thing the naysayers could constantly whine about. It can only affect the market once, and that's it.

Indeed. It would likely be on the scale of the drop of the last 2 days. Then done. And then honeybadger resumes its inexorable climb.

That said, no fucking way is that dude satoshi.

He was babbling incoherent stuff trying to sound smart on a panel where Nick Szabo is looking at him like, "WTF?"

While true, that's hardly probative.

[HI-TEC99]

It's showmen (exchanges) preying on the rubes (traders).

How does it work

 

Same as casinos. Get the punters gambling against each other while raking in the vigorish (exchange fees). The higher the stakes, higher the fees.

With unregulated Bitcoin exchanges, they can manipulate the prices enough to trigger the big payoff, margin calls.

It's bad enough to have a zero on the roulette wheel (and a double-zero in some places) but it's the hidden button that really hurts.

Margin trading isn't investing. It's gambling.

Dummied down it's gambling with borrowed money.

[practicaldreamer]

What if its not being borrowed. What if I (or we) can put in $500mil - and this shot in the arm brings in another $20mil new money on the back of it. The $500mil is then liquidated - taking with it (lets say) $10 mil of the money that was put in extra on the crest of the wave.

$10mil in a week isn't bad going - even for someone with $500mil in the bank.

I think maybe that this is how this market is going - purely because the market cap is low.

Follow the log.

[JimboToronto]

Margin trading isn't investing. It's gambling.

Dummied down it's gambling with borrowed money.

Indeed. Never invest nor gamble more than you can afford to lose. Borrowing to gamble is just crazy.

A friend who lives near a casino told me about the shocking number of non-publicized suicides that occur regularly in the casino parking lot.

Seems most of them were suckers who lost their shirts, borrowed more from the casino (including mortgaging their homes) and then lost that.

"Honey, I gambled away the house."

[Ibian]

Margin trading isn't investing. It's gambling.

Dummied down it's gambling with borrowed money.

Indeed. Never invest nor gamble more than you can afford to lose. Borrowing to gamble is just crazy.

A friend who lives near a casino told me about the shocking number of non-publicized suicides that occur regularly in the casino parking lot.

Seems most of them were suckers who lost their shirts, borrowed more from the casino (including mortgaging their homes) and then lost that.

"Honey, I gambled away the house."

Not entirely related, but we have this show in my country where people live well beyond their means, realize just in time how fucked they are, and call in "experts" (regular people who might do quite well hodling bitcoin) to help them fix their mess. This latest show tonight had a woman (single mother) who kept taking loans to pay off her debt and ended up with an unbelievable 700+% yearly interest. And she had close to $100k in debt because of it.

I simply can not comprehend how ANYONE can be that fiscally idiotic. So just remember, even if you didn't make out like a bandit on these last price swings, there are people doing far worse out there. Unbelievably far worse.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

[becoin]

seriously though - i've been out of the loop for months. has the scaling stuff, bitcoin core v. classic, etc etc, seriously not been solved?

Yes, it is solved. Classic, Unlimited etc etc.. all bitcoin alts are dead.

[Cassius]

What if its not being borrowed. What if I (or we) can put in $500mil - and this shot in the arm brings in another $20mil new money on the back of it. The $500mil is then liquidated - taking with it (lets say) $10 mil of the money that was put in extra on the crest of the wave.

$10mil in a week isn't bad going - even for someone with $500mil in the bank.

I think maybe that this is how this market is going - purely because the market cap is low.

Follow the log.

You can check shorts on Finex, right? Money is being borrowed to go long/short. Lots of money.

[JimboToronto]

OMG it was just $888 at stamp.

Call in the numerologists.