Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Holliday]

avoiding a split is paramount!

lets just get the Best BU dev Vs the Best Core dev in Dance Dance revolution competition  

How about we let them code "Hello World" and see who does it without making their computer crash? LMAO.

[JayJuanGee]

What kind of transaction are you trying to accomplish that is not reasonable?  Are others trying to accomplish those kinds of unreasonable transactions, too?  They can use some other means, or is bitcoin the only thing that will work for them?  Why does bitcoin need to serve that purpose at this time? 

How about small signature campaign payments? Are they spam?
What about all the gamblers betting small amounts? Are they spam?

What about RAREPEPE? If you don't know, the amazing new counterparty implementation trading rare/scarce assets on the bitcoin blockchain?
Is that spam? Cost for it has gotten outrageous and damn near stopped it dead..

You are pretty much saying that small people should not be using Bitcoin and use some altcoin instead?

How small is small?

Are you talking $10 or less?

You could be correct that bitcoin is not as good for that at this time.  But if the amount is really small, sometimes you can choose to send it with no fees or very little fees, and it will still go through (just takes longer).

Anyhow, seems like you want to get in the weeds, again for no real purpose except trying to prescribe what bitcoin ought to be rather than figure out how to use bitcoin for what it is.

[travwill]

If there had been a HF three years ago from 1MB to 2MB, we'd already be hitting the 2MB limit and BU supporters would be screaming that we need to immediately HF again to 4MB.  And so on, and so on.

They act like that wouldn't be true, but we all know it would.

So apparently for them, every time the block size limit is reached, the solution is simply another 2MB increase.  On and on, until mining centralization by like one person with a total hardware & hashpower monopoly is complete.

In reply to this argument.

Let's imagine we had hard forked to 2mb and the limit was reached.

The Bitcoin price would be between 2-3k PER COIN right now. The Market cap would be somewhere around 40 BILLION.

Ethererum, Dash and Monero would be WAY down, they definitely wouldn't be hitting their highs right now.

We'd have 2x the amount of transaction throughput which means there would be far less mempool backlogs, less network congestion and lower fees, which would overall create a MUCH better user experience.

In other words, it's a GOOD problem to have.

But you crybaby pussies, who apparently think 2017 tech can't handle >1mb, have forced the rise of altcoins, and have irreparably damaged Bitcoin's % of marketshare, and now markets are switching over to ethereum / dash / monero.

It's EFFING RIDICULOUS. These are UTTER FAILURES from a business perspective. It is also an utter failure from the perspective of User Experience. This is why one can only conclude that Bitcoin Core has failed completely in leadership, tactics, and effectiveness, they don't even seem to care about the user experience. All in the name of creating a "fee market" which is not yet needed, and won't be needed for a few more decades down the line.

BU at this point is the only thing that can really save bitcoin.

Fork it already! The time has come.

It is idiotic to implement a solution, especially on that requires a hard fork, if it only solves your probably temporarily.  Horrible IT practices to keep patching code and no matter how large you make the block sizes, they will in time fill up or require prioritization by miners.

IMHO it means much more to optimize Bitcoin with Segwit, take advantage of that "larger block" size it allows with more transactions, and then allow for off chain solutions to blossom that require Segwit.  Bitcoin can remain the power settlement system that it will only ever be.  Nothing more.

Thinking bitcoin will someday be some millions of transactions per second system is far fetched dreaming so make it all it can be and as optimized as possible, not even more centralized, less secure, and temporarily patched.

[Killerpotleaf]

avoiding a split is paramount!

lets just get the Best BU dev Vs the Best Core dev in Dance Dance revolution competition  

How about we let them code "Hello World" and see who does it without making their computer crash? LMAO.

assert(!"Hello World");

OPS we did again!

[jbreher]

It's not 16MB, it's 16MB times 6 per hour, times 24 per day, times 365 per year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The result is close to 1TB per year!!!

Be still my heart! I'll need to spend $25* per year to handle the onslaught. How will I ever cope!?!

* or the cost of a handful of smallblock bitcoin transaction fees. oh-the-huge-manatee.png!

1TB of SSD disk is not $25, rather it is ~$200 (per year of course). Not to mention the cpu needed for such a huge database with high transaction volume!
All of a sudden we are going to need multi-CPU blade servers and SANs to run a node! Come to your senses!

Firstly, node operation does not require SSD latencies. HDD speeds are fine. So 25 bux. Yet... so what? Less than 0.2 BTC? Waaaaaah. Buck up buttercup - those that refuse to invest shall be rightfully cast aside. And good riddance to you too. It would be one thing if you even tried... but... I guess you're just too. damned. insignificant.

..................president............

A president? ... <tardness deleted>

I see you seem to love wallowing in your public display of ignorance. Suit yourself.... imbecile. When you actually absorb the reality, I'll be happy to respond in a more conducive manner.

Umm... yeah. Did you even bother to read your linked article? Not a president of Bitcoin, but a president of the organization. What are the president's powers and duties?:

President: a publicly identified (real-life identity is known) BU Member who is responsible for the ongoing activities of the confederation. The president shall resolve BUIP number conflicts, organize BUIP discussion (in the forum 5 of 12 designated by the secretary), and schedule/initiate voting (within the limits specified in these articles).

Oh god! I hope he doesn't abuse his power by actually ... ASSIGNING A BUIP NUMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAIIIIEEEEEE!!!!!

A benevolent dictator believer!!! Please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom! 

Anyway, the way things are setup, one can be a dictator (president, sic..........) only on those who trust him to be one. Hence, there is no need to talk that much.

Just a note to apologize for my rudeness. I think your stated positions are ludicrous, but I didn't need to be a dick about it. Sorry.

[chopstick]

Oh by the way, I'd like to add.

BU hashrate is now at 43%.

8 mb hashrate is at 8%.

This means the big blocker side now effectively has 51% hashrate.

They won't fork until it's >75%,  but it's coming



My prediction, the price will drop dramatically during the fork and all the FUD and chaos and negative news stories. This will be a good buying opportunity.

But after the smoke clears, and BU / big blocks retain dominance, marketshare will flow back into Bitcoin from the shitcoins like a tidal wave and we'll see new all time highs with bitcoin. Finally, 10K+ per coin will become possible.

It's gonna happen.

[alexeft]

It's not 16MB, it's 16MB times 6 per hour, times 24 per day, times 365 per year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The result is close to 1TB per year!!!

Be still my heart! I'll need to spend $25* per year to handle the onslaught. How will I ever cope!?!

* or the cost of a handful of smallblock bitcoin transaction fees. oh-the-huge-manatee.png!

1TB of SSD disk is not $25, rather it is ~$200 (per year of course). Not to mention the cpu needed for such a huge database with high transaction volume!
All of a sudden we are going to need multi-CPU blade servers and SANs to run a node! Come to your senses!

Firstly, node operation does not require SSD latencies. HDD speeds are fine. So 25 bux. Yet... so what? Less than 0.2 BTC? Waaaaaah. Buck up buttercup - those that refuse to invest shall be rightfully cast aside. And good riddance to you too. It would be one thing if you even tried... but... I guess you're just too. damned. insignificant.

..................president............

A president? ... <tardness deleted>

I see you seem to love wallowing in your public display of ignorance. Suit yourself.... imbecile. When you actually absorb the reality, I'll be happy to respond in a more conducive manner.

Umm... yeah. Did you even bother to read your linked article? Not a president of Bitcoin, but a president of the organization. What are the president's powers and duties?:

President: a publicly identified (real-life identity is known) BU Member who is responsible for the ongoing activities of the confederation. The president shall resolve BUIP number conflicts, organize BUIP discussion (in the forum 5 of 12 designated by the secretary), and schedule/initiate voting (within the limits specified in these articles).

Oh god! I hope he doesn't abuse his power by actually ... ASSIGNING A BUIP NUMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAIIIIEEEEEE!!!!!

A benevolent dictator believer!!! Please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom! 

Anyway, the way things are setup, one can be a dictator (president, sic..........) only on those who trust him to be one. Hence, there is no need to talk that much.

Just a note to apologize for my rudeness. I think your stated positions are ludicrous, but I didn't need to be a dick about it. Sorry.

Fork it then. No problem at all!

[Torque]

In reply to this argument.

Let's imagine we had hard forked to 2mb and the limit was reached.

The Bitcoin price would be between 2-3k PER COIN right now. The Market cap would be somewhere around 40 BILLION.

Ethererum, Dash and Monero would be WAY down, they definitely wouldn't be hitting their highs right now.

Just saying this doesn't even remotely make it true.  But non-sensical trolls be non-sensical.

Also, anyone running to altcoins certainly aren't doing it because Bitcoin is somehow failing its functionality. 99.99% of ALL transactions in ALL cryptocurrencies are due to trader activity trying to make a profit. Not end users just trying to buy something with it on their way to work.  

And oh yeah, show me a website where you can even BUY something with those altcoins in the "mainstream". 

[alexeft]

Oh by the way, I'd like to add.

BU hashrate is now at 43%.

8 mb hashrate is at 8%.

This means the big blocker side now effectively has 51% hashrate.

They won't fork until it's >75%,  but it's coming



My prediction, the price will drop dramatically during the fork and all the FUD and chaos and negative news stories. This will be a good buying opportunity.

But after the smoke clears, and BU / big blocks retain dominance, marketshare will flow back into Bitcoin from the shitcoins like a tidal wave and we'll see new all time highs with bitcoin. Finally, 10K+ per coin will become possible.

It's gonna happen.

It's not. For BU to reach 75%, Segwit must stay at 25% and 8MB must vanish!

[mindrust]

I jumped back into the boat again from 1060$  

I was stupid i didn't buy when it was 950$ and waited for it to go even lower but didn't happen. Now i am in again with a loss of %3

I could have easily made a %20 profit but i was fucking dumb. I knew exactly when to sell, and i knew that it won't go below 900$ unless something crazy happens yet i waited for that crazy shit to happen. Now all i got is a-%3 :p

Good thing is i am completely out of the fucking exchanges.

[Killerpotleaf]

Oh by the way, I'd like to add.

BU hashrate is now at 43%.

8 mb hashrate is at 8%.

This means the big blocker side now effectively has 51% hashrate.

They won't fork until it's >75%,  but it's coming



My prediction, the price will drop dramatically during the fork and all the FUD and chaos and negative news stories. This will be a good buying opportunity.

But after the smoke clears, and BU / big blocks retain dominance, marketshare will flow back into Bitcoin from the shitcoins like a tidal wave and we'll see new all time highs with bitcoin. Finally, 10K+ per coin will become possible.

It's gonna happen.

a <25% fork is not viable.
its winner takes all...
when the dust settles,
we'll have 1.2MB blocks ( with a mem pool that Sometimes gets emptied ), segwitHF on its way, Core will have rage quit, and price will correct to 3K

[Ibian]

So just a question to the small blocker crowd. Are you against the price going up? Because that will be the effect if the transaction volume stays at this level forever.

[Killerpotleaf]

Oh by the way, I'd like to add.

BU hashrate is now at 43%.

8 mb hashrate is at 8%.

This means the big blocker side now effectively has 51% hashrate.

They won't fork until it's >75%,  but it's coming



My prediction, the price will drop dramatically during the fork and all the FUD and chaos and negative news stories. This will be a good buying opportunity.

But after the smoke clears, and BU / big blocks retain dominance, marketshare will flow back into Bitcoin from the shitcoins like a tidal wave and we'll see new all time highs with bitcoin. Finally, 10K+ per coin will become possible.

It's gonna happen.

It's not. For BU to reach 75%, Segwit must stay at 25% and 8MB must vanish!

2MB classic node are compatible with BU so long as miners generate blocks <2MB

we do not need them to switch over.

we will have different implementations converge on one blockchain

meanwhile core will have nuked themselfs....

[chopstick]

It is idiotic to implement a solution, especially on that requires a hard fork, if it only solves your probably temporarily.  Horrible IT practices to keep patching code and no matter how large you make the block sizes, they will in time fill up or require prioritization by miners.

IMHO it means much more to optimize Bitcoin with Segwit, take advantage of that "larger block" size it allows with more transactions, and then allow for off chain solutions to blossom that require Segwit.  Bitcoin can remain the power settlement system that it will only ever be.  Nothing more.

Thinking bitcoin will someday be some millions of transactions per second system is far fetched dreaming so make it all it can be and as optimized as possible, not even more centralized, less secure, and temporarily patched.

You guys keep engaging in the same circular arguments, over and over, and over and over.

It's getting ridiculous. How many times do I have to say it. This stupidity is forcing the rise of altcoins and there's a very real chance Bitcoin could lose the #1 spot if something is not done.

Also, YOU GUYS are the ones who came in and suddenly decided that Bitcoin should only be a settlement layer, and not the peer2peer cash electronic payments system that it was designed to be by Satoshi.

If you want to deviate from Satoshi's original vision with this nonsense, then Core should go and create their own altcoin instead of attempting a hostile takeover, enforcing an artificial blocksize limit and then FORCING people onto THEIR off-chain solutions. This is ethically and morally wrong, and so is their campaign of censorship they have engaged in to justify this.

[alexeft]

Oh by the way, I'd like to add.

BU hashrate is now at 43%.

8 mb hashrate is at 8%.

This means the big blocker side now effectively has 51% hashrate.

They won't fork until it's >75%,  but it's coming



My prediction, the price will drop dramatically during the fork and all the FUD and chaos and negative news stories. This will be a good buying opportunity.

But after the smoke clears, and BU / big blocks retain dominance, marketshare will flow back into Bitcoin from the shitcoins like a tidal wave and we'll see new all time highs with bitcoin. Finally, 10K+ per coin will become possible.

It's gonna happen.

It's not. For BU to reach 75%, Segwit must stay at 25% and 8MB must vanish!

2MB classic node are compatible with BU so long as miners generate blocks <2MB

we do not need them to switch over.

we will have different implementations converge on one blockchain

meanwhile core will have nuked themselfs....

Please don't forget to tell me how it feels when it can't run anymore.

And don't forget that we already have centralization. It's called banks.

[gembitz]

It is idiotic to implement a solution, especially on that requires a hard fork, if it only solves your probably temporarily.  Horrible IT practices to keep patching code and no matter how large you make the block sizes, they will in time fill up or require prioritization by miners.

IMHO it means much more to optimize Bitcoin with Segwit, take advantage of that "larger block" size it allows with more transactions, and then allow for off chain solutions to blossom that require Segwit.  Bitcoin can remain the power settlement system that it will only ever be.  Nothing more.

Thinking bitcoin will someday be some millions of transactions per second system is far fetched dreaming so make it all it can be and as optimized as possible, not even more centralized, less secure, and temporarily patched.

You guys keep engaging in the same circular arguments, over and over, and over and over.

It's getting ridiculous. How many times do I have to say it. This stupidity is forcing the rise of altcoins and there's a very real chance Bitcoin could lose the #1 spot if something is not done.

Also, YOU GUYS are the ones who came in and suddenly decided that Bitcoin should only be a settlement layer, and not the peer2peer cash electronic payments system that it was designed to be by Satoshi.

If you want to deviate from Satoshi's original vision with this nonsense, then Core should go and create their own altcoin instead of attempting a hostile takeover, enforcing an artificial blocksize limit and then FORCING people onto THEIR off-chain solutions. This is ethically and morally wrong, and so is their campaign of censorship they have engaged in to justify this.

^segwit is a bandaid in the solution is slightly bigger blocks!! 2mb is fine the small bandwidth people in india will have to upgrade!!! lol ~ nice troll on small blocks but its not 2013 anymore :-D

[Torque]

So just a question to the small blocker crowd. Are you against the price going up? Because that will be the effect if the transaction volume stays at this level forever.

So to play devil's advocate, let me ask you a counter question:
Does the price not moving up from here (but stays the same relative to inflation) somehow violate the principles, tenants, or intended usage of bitcoin?

Another question:
How much of that current transaction volume is NOT traders trading to make a fiat profit?  Hmmm? 2-3%, maybe?

[pennywise]

No, the best solution is lightning network, that comes on top of segwit. If you're sending some really small transaction such as one rupee, there will be no fee.

[eddie13]

Anyhow, seems like you want to get in the weeds, again for no real purpose except trying to prescribe what bitcoin ought to be rather than figure out how to use bitcoin for what it is.

That's right, except I am perfectly capable of using it for what it is, I just want it to be a world killer rather than just some obscure thing..
I want Bitcoin to make governments think twice before they oppress their people, not just remain irreverent in the grand scheme..

The price of Bitcoin is just a side effect, I don't much care about profits, I want a tool of liberty for the people in the world that need it..

[Holliday]

If you want to deviate from Satoshi's original vision with this nonsense, then Core should go and create their own altcoin instead of attempting a hostile takeover, enforcing an artificial blocksize limit and then FORCING people onto THEIR off-chain solutions. This is ethically and morally wrong, and so is their campaign of censorship they have engaged in to justify this.

We have existing rules with a functioning network right now. Why would those of us who want to keep those rules have to go anywhere or do anything? That doesn't make any sense.