Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[gentlemand]

The question is is bitcoin considered removed enough not to be impacted when it all goes down in flames? I'd like to think yes but the head is saying something else.

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[bitserve]

blog is worth a look: https://elaineou.com/2017/06/12/tulips-and-token-mania/

I guess history is destined to repeat. Over and over again.

The first company I witnessed to basically pre-mine all their coins, crowdsale the majority (~80%) of their coins to a select few investors (in return for btc I might add), and allow the remaining tiny float to be bid up quickly by Average Joe retail buyers was Nxt. Nxt had a single developer who basically controlled everything. The source was closed, at least in the beginning. And we can see from history how that all turned out. (Of course Nxt is getting pumped again now like every other shitcoin).

And Nxt arguably had an actual working wallet before they even did their crowdsale, and was working on an integrated marketplace. These Eth ICOs have nothing but slick marketing and over promises.

Someone correct me if I got the facts wrong.

I don't know about NXT. But I have go on my analysis on random ICO's....

Let's see now Monaco... It's basically another bitcoin/ethereum debit card, something like Xapo. The funny thing is that the ICO is currently now on progress. Atm they have got around 50 million$ in ETH.... Yep, 50 million dollars for launching a debit card.... SOmething that could be done with much less than 1 million. Oh, and the ICO haven't finished yet...

I remember the time when the LUCKY startups that convinced some VC, got a few hundred thousands to take off, then some more AFTER hitting roadmap milestones, etc etc....

But now we have crowdsales that give the founders as much money as if they already invented the next Google... without not even a PoC.

Oh, and what to say about that board members... tens of them needed for a single stupid idea that needs almost no development? Really? And do investors need to pay some salary to them all?

I am thining about launching my own ICO. I will name it ScamICO (SICO) and I am sure it will be a fucking disaste, because, unlike the rest, I will be the only one delivering exactly as promised. Mmhhhh, on second second I wouldn't be surprised if some people handed me a few millions without even reading the name. Maybe I should do it... Anyone on board?

[empowering]

hmmm thats a very very deep pond for a little fish

It just goes to show how utterly and fundamentally different that whole project is. I genuinely couldn't give a shit what it gets up to.

..... agreed.

Though what they appear to be getting up to is......  troubling.


The amount of money involved in the project vs "Ethereum as is in 2017"   is SEVERELY out of kilter.

Ho hum..


Popcorn

[600watt]

blog is worth a look: https://elaineou.com/2017/06/12/tulips-and-token-mania/

I guess history is destined to repeat. Over and over again.

The first company I witnessed to basically pre-mine all their coins, crowdsale the majority (~80%) of their coins to a select few investors (in return for btc I might add), and allow the remaining tiny float to be bid up quickly by Average Joe retail buyers was Nxt. Nxt had a single developer who basically controlled everything. The source was closed, at least in the beginning. And we can see from history how that all turned out. (Of course Nxt is getting pumped again now like every other shitcoin).

And Nxt arguably had an actual working wallet before they even did their crowdsale, and was working on an integrated marketplace. These Eth ICOs have nothing but slick marketing and over promises.

Someone correct me if I got the facts wrong.

ICO´s are scams. a few minutes to gain $ 50 million for a small software project?? my ass.

isn´t it ironic that bitcoiners who get labeled by outsiders as delusional greedy fuckers see THE REAL GREED, see people on the verge of ruining themselves, and are all of a sudden conservative, sane investors... ?!  

lawmakers will outlaw all alts and recognize bitcoin only.

[empowering]

blog is worth a look: https://elaineou.com/2017/06/12/tulips-and-token-mania/

I guess history is destined to repeat. Over and over again.

The first company I witnessed to basically pre-mine all their coins, crowdsale the majority (~80%) of their coins to a select few investors (in return for btc I might add), and allow the remaining tiny float to be bid up quickly by Average Joe retail buyers was Nxt. Nxt had a single developer who basically controlled everything. The source was closed, at least in the beginning. And we can see from history how that all turned out. (Of course Nxt is getting pumped again now like every other shitcoin).

And Nxt arguably had an actual working wallet before they even did their crowdsale, and was working on an integrated marketplace. These Eth ICOs have nothing but slick marketing and over promises.

Someone correct me if I got the facts wrong.

ICO´s are scams. a few minutes to gain $ 50 million for a small software project?? my ass.

isn´t it ironic that bitcoiners who get labeled by outsiders as delusional greedy fuckers see THE REAL GREED, see people on the verge of ruining themselves, and are all of a sudden conservative, sane investors... ?!  

lawmakers will outlaw all alts and recognize bitcoin only.

I don't think so....

This is not the Highlander..... https://youtu.be/sqcLjcSloXs  there can be more than one.

Though legally unsound smart contracts/issuing securities = Trouble - someone could get themselves some thinking time in a not so local penitentiary

[r0ach]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB-9cF8V0AA_aRM.jpg

haha

Is this a good ELI5 of cryptocurrency?

what is a iota?

It's this thing called cryptocurrency.  Something like gold and silver people buy as a hedge against government except it runs entirely on government infrastructure, with non-obfuscated traffic, on regulated government exchanges, that can then be converted to government money to buy things.

[Torque]

The strange (and somewhat irritating) thing is, these young tech people are running around looking for the "killer app" that will somehow make a new cryptocurrency fly with the masses overnight.

The thing they keep missing is that, the Bitcoin blockchain network by itself *is* the killer app. Sure, cool things can integrated with it and be built into it and along side it --- those things will definitely improve Bitcoin. But essentially Bitcoin already has all of the best attributes that make it the killer app for a new kind of digital money. And it's built right in.

Does Gold need a 'killer app' to serve as a store of value and usage as money? Does Silver need a killer app? No, they really don't. All they need is people's faith/belief in the PM's built-in attributes that make them a good form of money.

And that's all Bitcoin really needs (and of course, a way to scale better with lower fees).

As typical though, even when given a near-perfect wheel, everyone will run around convinced that they can reinvent a better one... and fail.

[bitserve]

The strange (and somewhat irritating) thing is, these young tech people are running around looking for the "killer app" that will somehow make a new cryptocurrency fly with the masses overnight.

The thing they keep missing is that, the Bitcoin blockchain network by itself *is* the killer app. Sure, cool things can integrated with it and be built into it and along side it, but essentially Bitcoin has all of the best attributes that make it the killer app for a new kind of digital money. And it's built right in.

Does Gold need a 'killer app' to serve as a store of value and usage as money? Does Silver need a killer app? No, they really don't. All they need is people's faith/belief in the PM's built-in attributes that make them a good form of money.

And that's all Bitcoin really needs (and of course, a way to scale better with lower fees).

As typical though, even when given a near-perfect wheel, everyone will run around convinced that they can reinvent a better one... and fail.

YOu are missing the point. They do not try to reinvent the wheel. They just want people to give them absurd amounts of money for THEIR wheel concept. Or for their posing as they have plans to think about a better wheel. Or for... anyway, the wheel is unimportant here, it's all for the money.

[Torque]

YOu are missing the point. They do not try to reinvent the wheel. They just want people to give them absurd amounts of money for THEIR wheel concept. Or for their posing as they have plans to think about a better wheel. Or for... anyway, the wheel is unimportant here, it's all for the money.

Yep, so true.

Like I said, history repeats. Everyone thinks their idea is genius until the lights go out.

http://www.cnbc.com/2012/05/17/Failed-IPOs-of-the-Dot-Com-Bubble.html

[r0ach]

The strange (and somewhat irritating) thing is, these young tech people are running around looking for the "killer app" that will somehow make a new cryptocurrency fly with the masses overnight.

Does Gold need a 'killer app' to serve as a store of value and usage as money? Does Silver need a killer app? No, they really don't. All they need is people's faith/belief in the PM's built-in attributes that make them a good form of money.

It's because like I said before, gold and silver both have a functional Schelling point while cryptocurrency has a REVERSE Schelling point.  Money is a zero sum game so if someone else has more of it, you're basically their slave.  If some guy (Elwar) has hoarded all the bitcoins, what incentive is there for you to honor his super mario tokens and let him buy all the goods on the planet and years of your labor, making you his indentured servant?  Hint:  There is none.

For better or worse, metals facilitate this relationship of power where he who has the gold makes the rules, because a regular human can't just invent a new noble metal (gold and silver) themselves.  It takes two neutron stars colliding to make them.  This is why there is a functional Schelling point in metals as money, because they require the literal power of gawd to create.  On the other hand, just about anyone can create their own cryptocurrency now, so the second some guy hoards more than you or transaction fees get too high, you're extremely incentivized to make a new one until the entire cryptocurrency market eventually dies from dilution (even if it was actually decentralized but it's not) and everyone goes back to gold and silver again.

[Torque]

Money is a zero sum game so if someone else has more of it, you're basically their slave.

r0ach, your statements constantly invalidate your own arguments in favor of PMs. I can guarantee you that the world central banks already own, and will always own (because they control the printed fiat), more gold or silver than you.

So I guess you are forever their slave then.

[kromtar]

But... there are infinite precious metals in the universe and bacteria can make it from their anus.. 

[lightfoot]

Bitmain cheats a bit with their miner microcode. That cheat would not work with Segwit, thus their systems would be somewhat slower. Which would make them sad.

They know they can't pull that trick indefinitely, in fact they knew that from the beginning. Jihan BU is a fan of game theory, let's just hope he is also a good practitioner and do the right decision at the right TIME.

Hm. If he practices combinational game theory then in this case we're not in a multiplayer game where tit for tat works, but a Nash equilibrium game where min/max theory applies. In which case, since Ant is pretty much the only supplier they would pursue a strategy that exploits the saddle, or in other words only do things which are in their best interest (ie: defect).

Hm. Kind of sucks that other companies making miners went out of business, but oh well.

C

[r0ach]

Money is a zero sum game so if someone else has more of it, you're basically their slave.

r0ach, your statements constantly invalidate your own arguments in favor of PMs. I can guarantee you that the world central banks already own, and will always own (because they control the printed fiat), more gold or silver than you.

So I guess you are forever their slave then.

There is no central bank I know of that (openly) stockpiles silver.  Their somewhat secret groups like the Pilgrims society have actively waged war against it for decades.  While silver was still the unit of account for places like China and India, these central bankers had most of their wealth entirely in gold.  They had the bright idea that by attempting to demonetize silver, they would inadvertently be enriching themselves in the process, transfering that market cap over to them instead.

However, silver has already been gutted as much as possible by their financial manipulation.  There is no money to be made by trying to sabotage it more.  It's quite the opposite.  Now places like India, Russia, China, and random Arab nations who are typically not a part of the western banker crowd are way stocked up on the typical banker asset - gold.  Now you're in the exact opposite position as before.  Western bankers can now screw over their rivals by raising silver to dilute gold instead of trying to manipulate it down.

Regardless of whatever financial warfare they decide to pursue, both metals are trading very close to cost of production, so both will probably skyrocket from what they are now when the wheels fall off the economy, but silver just has way higher upside potential for numerous reasons.

[Torque]

Regardless of whatever financial warfare they decide to pursue, both metals are trading very close to cost of production, so both will probably skyrocket from what they are now when the wheels fall off the economy.

Btw, I hope you know I'm just playing a little devil's advocate with you on PMs. The truth is even with all their manipulation problems, I like PMs and own a little silver myself. I think it would be prudent for anyone that likes Bitcoin to also own a little PM too as a hedge. Historically the silver price is looking pretty good right now. Not sure about the gold price though.

[r0ach]

Btw, I hope you know I'm just playing a little devil's advocate with you on PMs. The truth is even with all their manipulation problems, I like PMs and own a little silver myself. I think it would be prudent for anyone that likes Bitcoin to also own a little PM too as a hedge. Historically the silver price is looking pretty good right now. Not sure about the gold price though.

It was always thought that tightness in the silver market would be what led to Comex failure and not gold, but I think the gold market is honestly more tight now entirely because there are price insensitive buyers in the form of...the nation states of China and Russia that just print money and gobble the stuff up.  

It's still possible that silver ends up breaking the fractional reserve bank, so to speak, but there were informal treaties in the past where nation states were not allowed to wade into the metals market and cause a run that both Russia and China seem to be not adhering to and will likely hasten some huge overnight forced revaluation where anyone who had metals the day before is now rich.  Whichever one is the domino doesn't really matter.  Both would be way up while silver will have the higher percentage gains in the end.

[lightfoot]

But... there are infinite precious metals in the universe and bacteria can make it from their anus.. 

Excellent point: Why are bacteria not being used to mine bitcoins?

[Asrael999]

blog is worth a look: https://elaineou.com/2017/06/12/tulips-and-token-mania/

I guess history is destined to repeat. Over and over again.

The first company I witnessed to basically pre-mine all their coins, crowdsale the majority (~80%) of their coins to a select few investors (in return for btc I might add), and allow the remaining tiny float to be bid up quickly by Average Joe retail buyers was Nxt. Nxt had a single developer who basically controlled everything. The source was closed, at least in the beginning. And we can see from history how that all turned out. (Of course Nxt is getting pumped again now like every other shitcoin).

And Nxt arguably had an actual working wallet before they even did their crowdsale, and was working on an integrated marketplace. These Eth ICOs have nothing but slick marketing and over promises.

Someone correct me if I got the facts wrong.

ICO´s are scams. a few minutes to gain $ 50 million for a small software project?? my ass.

isn´t it ironic that bitcoiners who get labeled by outsiders as delusional greedy fuckers see THE REAL GREED, see people on the verge of ruining themselves, and are all of a sudden conservative, sane investors... ?!  

lawmakers will outlaw all alts and recognize bitcoin only.

Far more likely that lawmakers all the ones that the government can't exercise control over surely. They'll be a few asset seizures and some scammers will go to jail - but the big downside will be the regulatory oversight off the whole crypto universe. ICO's need regulating just like IPOs to protect ordinary greedy folk from themselves.

[Meuh6879]

But... there are infinite precious metals in the universe and bacteria can make it from their anus.. 

Excellent point: Why are bacteria not being used to mine bitcoins?

well, in the reality, you can supply a digital clock with potatoes ... so, yes, you can mine bitcoins with ... a thousand potatos for UPS.

i prefer solar panel ... more reliable over 25 years. 

[Dabs]

I am thining about launching my own ICO. I will name it ScamICO (SICO) and I am sure it will be a fucking disaste, because, unlike the rest, I will be the only one delivering exactly as promised. Mmhhhh, on second second I wouldn't be surprised if some people handed me a few millions without even reading the name. Maybe I should do it... Anyone on board?

You need escrow that specializes in ICO? Multi-signature if you want, with another guy I know.