Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[marcus_of_augustus]

I'm not gonna bother reading the link.

Another old-timer who couldn’t bother to read/understand the link. At least you were honest.

there was nothing to read/understand ... you posted a half-baked photo but didn't have anything mining specific in it, why waste time on idiots?

Next thing you know the guy is running a 'crowd sale' ICO cloud mining or presales for mining rental token contracts or some other such scam based on a glitzy looking photo.

It's really getting a lot like gold miners ... what's that saying about liars standing over holes?

Scams are getting old dude, if you want to suck up to Jihan and pump for the scammy miners go for it. Don't try to sell it as something big, shiny and new.

[1715184731]

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[1715184731]

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[jbreher]

Roger Ver, who owns ViaBTC

Got any evidence to go with that assertion?

Bitcoin Cash is NOT a HF of Bitcoin.

By any sane definition, Bitcoin Cash is exactly a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain.

[jbreher]

BCC looks like a winner to me. Wish I wasn't an American citizen so I could bet on it.

I think you'll get your chance. I'm guessing some US-accessible exchanges will list it within a day or three.

[jbreher]

Ok, here's a question.

When BCC splits off we all have the same amount of BCC and BTC. If I have my coins safe on paper wallets how do I go about sweeping the private key of my BCC to dump without making the cold wallets for my BTC no longer cold as I have entered the private key on an online computer?

I don't think you can. But what would be the point of so doing? Just wait until you eventually want to spend some, then split it at that time.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Roger Ver, who owns ViaBTC

Got any evidence to go with that assertion?

Bitcoin Cash is NOT a HF of Bitcoin.

By any sane definition, Bitcoin Cash is exactly a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain.

Here to pump an altcoin bear? ... things must be getting pretty sad in the anti-core camp?

[bitserve]

Roger Ver, who owns ViaBTC

Got any evidence to go with that assertion?

Bitcoin Cash is NOT a HF of Bitcoin.

By any sane definition, Bitcoin Cash is exactly a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain.

Evidence? Not really, but I would be very surprised it isn't the case. Anyways, the point was Bitcoin.com is a biased news source about this issues, can we agree on that even if you share that same bias?

About the HF... so they are going to replicate the blockchain and then change a lot of rules and divert some (undetermined) hashrate to mine on that.... It is not exactly as if Bitcoin forked. It is an altcoin since its very inception and I think that is the only good thing they are doing about it. It would be irresponsible if it were a real HF more so after an agreement and even reaching 100% consensus on BTC.

If you mean it "forks" from a copy of the Bitcoin blockchain, well, yeah.

P.S.: WHY do you think "Bitcoin cash" is good for Bitcoin holders? I am talking mainly about PRICE impact here.

[JayJuanGee]

Roger Ver, who owns ViaBTC

Got any evidence to go with that assertion?

Bitcoin Cash is NOT a HF of Bitcoin.

By any sane definition, Bitcoin Cash is exactly a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain.

Evidence? Not really, but I would be very surprised it isn't the case. Anyways, the point was Bitcoin.com is a biased news source about this issues, can we agree on that even if you share that same bias?

About the HF... so they are going to replicate the blockchain and then change a lot of rules and divert some (undetermined) hashrate to mine on that.... It is not exactly as if Bitcoin forked. It is an altcoin since its very inception and I think that is the only good thing they are doing about it. It would be irresponsible if it were a real HF more so after an agreement and even reaching 100% consensus on BTC.

If you mean it "forks" from a copy of the Bitcoin blockchain, well, yeah.

P.S.: WHY do you think "Bitcoin cash" is good for Bitcoin holders? I am talking mainly about PRICE impact here.

I believe the pie in the sky premise of the various big blocker "hardfork" nut jobs is their fantastical belief that they are either going to be able to garner sufficient hashpower and economic nodes in order to become the longest bitcoin chain - and to really give bitcoin a run for its money - yet even when they attempt to trick folks into some kind of colluding path forward, they cannot accomplish such collusion based on actual facts and confidence that their way is the "better" way forward, and then they lose substantial portions of those - except some of the extensive baggage wielding nutjobs.

Even though we may have concluded that segwit was going to take some of the wind out of the sail of these arguments, a lot of these folks are so deluded in their thinking that they are never going to be satisfied, and it is likely that they are going to continue to battle for several more years on this same topic... it would be nice if they had a coin that they could just focus upon, but they are never going to be satisfied, so even that seems an insubstantial resolution.

[bones261]

i'm not liking that there is no option on the poll that says: bitcoin will rise all week up untill Aug 1st at which point it will rocket up +500$ as the BCC market crashes down down down to the lowest low ( SUB 100, maybe even <50 ) and appears to die on arrival.

cuz ya... thats watsup.

Just as long as I get my BCC to market first. Would hate to get stuck bag holding dust, even if it's free.

Edit: Doesn't look like I'll be the first though since I refuse to lock in my BTC at VIABTC, so I can trade in IOU virtual tokens.

[d_eddie]

ANALYSIS: WHY AUGUST 3rd?
(micgoossens's prediction game)

Preliminaries. (Remarks, confessions.)
Any attempts at analysis for dates so far in the future can't be based on TA in the sense of shoulders, cups and double inverted Batmans. Even if it were a full Cow-and-Shepherd (one of the longest TA patterns), it wouldn't start before July 31st. We know the thing with crypto timings: a stock market's week is worth around a crypto halfday. So the analysis must be based on purely qualitative reasoning, no graphs or stuff.

Honestly, I would have preferred to choose Aug 4th: the time frame I am picturing in my mind is one day longer than what I bet on. Well, I'll work with what I have.

The Analysis.
August 1st will be inconsequential. Y2K, if you see what I mean. However, a few weak hands could and probably will be shaken. What this means is that later, as the price starts to run up - gingerly at first - those who panic sold or missed out the discounts will queue up for more - at a, ehm, slightly higher price of course. I'm not sure about the timing after August 1st, but I liked the 4th because it's Friday. Saturday and Sunday is bull-uga party (dolphins are whales too, as we all know). However, Aug 4th was taken, so I had to settle on the 3rd. I guess the cetacea will have to drink their champagne before the weekend breaks. The timing wasn't that crystal clear in my mind anyway.

TL;DR.
Fear of Aug 1st dissipates slowly while the wounded lick their wounds. New week, new life starting on Friday Thursday.

[jbreher]

Roger Ver, who owns ViaBTC

Got any evidence to go with that assertion?

Bitcoin Cash is NOT a HF of Bitcoin.

By any sane definition, Bitcoin Cash is exactly a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain.

Here to pump an altcoin bear? ... things must be getting pretty sad in the anti-core camp?

Just clarifying for the sake of truth. Depending upon the sequencing of things, Bitcoin Cash may be no more altcoin than is SegWit coin (which is somewhat playfully starting to be referred to as Bitcoin-Jr)

[jbreher]

Roger Ver, who owns ViaBTC

Got any evidence to go with that assertion?

Bitcoin Cash is NOT a HF of Bitcoin.

By any sane definition, Bitcoin Cash is exactly a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain.

Evidence? Not really, but I would be very surprised it isn't the case.

So you're pulling shit out of your ass. Got it.

Anyways, the point was Bitcoin.com is a biased news source about this issues, can we agree on that even if you share that same bias?

I'll grant you that any editorial slant it may have is likely to be biased to the bigblock camp, yes. I don't really hang out on Bitcoin.com, so I don't really know.

About the HF... so they are going to replicate the blockchain and then change a lot of rules and divert some (undetermined) hashrate to mine on that....

Well, no. They are not replicating the bitcoin blockchain. They are building atop the bitcoin blockchain.

It is not exactly as if Bitcoin forked.

Wrong. It is precisely a fork of the bitcoin blockchain. Up to the fork, both chains identical. After the fork, two separate chains. A fork. Of the blockchain. Exactly.

It is an altcoin since its very inception and I think that is the only good thing they are doing about it.

Again, it is no more an altcoin than Bitcoin-Jr is an altcoin.

P.S.: WHY do you think "Bitcoin cash" is good for Bitcoin holders? I am talking mainly about PRICE impact here

Because Bitcoin Cash has the transaction capacity required to support all the use cases that core threw overboard to sustain their Raspberry Pi fetish. More transaction capacity > more use cases > more utility > more use >  more value > more demand > higher price > more mining support > more security. Virtuous circle.

edit: or to look at it another way:

BTC has up to this point worked pretty well as a store of value*. But let's face it, for the last year, BTC has sucked as a medium of exchange. Some other crypto is going to fill that role. So you've got a choice:
1) Allow Bitcoin Cash to flourish, and take the role of default medium of exchange crypto. For this, you will be admirably rewarded. For you are starting off with one free BCC for every BTC you own.
2) Kill BCC, and some other crypto (LTC perhaps? Dash, god** forbid?) takes the medium of exchange role. Leaving you -- the BTC holder -- with nothing to show for it.

*oh yeah - that asterisk. Frankly, I believe that BTC earned its status as store of value only because its previous exceptional performance (now abandoned) as a medium of exchange. There's a good chance that BTC's store of value properties will be eroded by another coin that works great as medium of exchange, while still working well as a store of value. If so, wouldn't it be a good idea to own that other crypto?

** it's just an expression.

[jbreher]

Just as long as I get my BCC to market first. Would hate to get stuck bag holding dust, even if it's free.

you'll be fine, BCC has bigger blocks, your TX will confrim very fast, like the good old days. 

True dat. OTOH, if you're counting on exchanging your free BCC for legacy BTC, and there is a line to do so, what will strangle your capacity is that these exchanges need to settle on the slow Bitcoin-Jr chain as well as the more capable Bitcoin Cash chain.

[fluidjax]

Roger Ver, who owns ViaBTC

Got any evidence to go with that assertion?

Bitcoin Cash is NOT a HF of Bitcoin.

By any sane definition, Bitcoin Cash is exactly a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain.

Here to pump an altcoin bear? ... things must be getting pretty sad in the anti-core camp?

Just clarifying for the sake of truth. Depending upon the sequencing of things, Bitcoin Cash may be no more altcoin than is SegWit coin (which is somewhat playfully starting to be referred to as Bitcoin-Jr)

Stop messing about with the semantics, clearly people are using slightly differing definitions of words here, ignoring that definition and then fighting about what it implies is meaningless.

I can create a hard fork of Bitcoin in a few minutes (tweak some params, change difficultly for that tweak, recompile , mine a block, and we have a hard fork).. it means nothing. The level of support and consensus is what is important.

[jbreher]

Roger Ver, who owns ViaBTC

Got any evidence to go with that assertion?

Bitcoin Cash is NOT a HF of Bitcoin.

By any sane definition, Bitcoin Cash is exactly a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain.

Here to pump an altcoin bear? ... things must be getting pretty sad in the anti-core camp?

Just clarifying for the sake of truth. Depending upon the sequencing of things, Bitcoin Cash may be no more altcoin than is SegWit coin (which is somewhat playfully starting to be referred to as Bitcoin-Jr)

Stop messing about with the semantics, clearly people are using slightly differing definitions of words here, ignoring that definition and then fighting about what it implies is meaningless.

I can create a hard fork of Bitcoin in a few minutes (tweak some params, change difficultly for that tweak, recompile , mine a block, and we have a hard fork).. it means nothing. The level of support and consensus is what is important.

I can certainly agree with the bolded sentence. And we don't know the level of support and consensus until the experiment is run. Fact is, in roughly coterminous timeframes, all Bitcoiners will be forced to choose between: Change A to Bitcoin; or Change B to Bitcoin. No option for Unchanged Bitcoin. So get off your high horse. If one is an alt before the fact, then so is the other.

Cheers!

[hv_]

Roger Ver, who owns ViaBTC

Got any evidence to go with that assertion?

Bitcoin Cash is NOT a HF of Bitcoin.

By any sane definition, Bitcoin Cash is exactly a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain.

Here to pump an altcoin bear? ... things must be getting pretty sad in the anti-core camp?

Just clarifying for the sake of truth. Depending upon the sequencing of things, Bitcoin Cash may be no more altcoin than is SegWit coin (which is somewhat playfully starting to be referred to as Bitcoin-Jr)

Stop messing about with the semantics, clearly people are using slightly differing definitions of words here, ignoring that definition and then fighting about what it implies is meaningless.

I can create a hard fork of Bitcoin in a few minutes (tweak some params, change difficultly for that tweak, recompile , mine a block, and we have a hard fork).. it means nothing. The level of support and consensus is what is important.

I can certainly agree with the bolded sentence. And we don't know the level of support and consensus until the experiment is run. Fact is, in roughly coterminous timeframes, all Bitcoiners will be forced to choose between: Change A to Bitcoin; or Change B to Bitcoin. No option for Unchanged Bitcoin. So get off your high horse. If one is an alt before the fact, then so is the other.

Cheers!

AFAIK LTC was such a HF ?

[JayJuanGee]

You've let a single guy from china take control over the network, you've let him dictate the terms of your surrender, even if its just accepting the 2x HF in November.

Who is "you?"  Sounds like nonsense.  There are a lot of people in this space, and maybe you have identified part of the problem with some of the egos that seem to want to be "influential" in this decentralized space

[Totscha]

...

AFAIK LTC was such a HF ?

Not even close. LTC is a separate chain with a different POW algo.

[fluidjax]

I think the naming of Coins (is it an Altcoin, Bitcoin, or a Bitcoin derivative) is a tricky thing.
My gut reaction is to say:
1) Anything thing that forks with minority hashing power is an altcoin
2) Anything that forks with a majority of hash power is still bitcoin

But this creates problems because
1) What happens if the altcoin (minority hash power chain) later becomes the majority chain, do we relabel it.
2) This gives miners all the power to name what is Bitcoin, as users, businesses, exchanges (the majority) don't we get a say.

Because there are no pre-defined rules for any of this, only consensus, there is no escape from constantly fighting off hijack attempts by a vocal minority.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

I can certainly agree with the bolded sentence. And we don't know the level of support and consensus until the experiment is run. Fact is, in roughly coterminous timeframes, all Bitcoiners will be forced to choose between: Change A to Bitcoin; or Change B to Bitcoin. No option for Unchanged Bitcoin. So get off your high horse. If one is an alt before the fact, then so is the other.

Cheers!

Is there going to be a BCC fork no matter what conditions?  I heard some people say that it would only be if UASF split off or something?  I am a bit out of the loop.

[luckygenough56]

i heard segwit is a trojan horse from illuminatis to take over bitcoin