Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Dafar]

Alright guys... I'm HODLING!

WE RIDE 2GETHER OR WE DIE 2GETHER!!!! LAST STORM BEFORE EPIC RALLY! I'M READY!!!!

[bones261]

WTF? So is Roger Ver full of shit? Is this BCC fork thing not happening now?

Well, if nobody mines it, there can be no fork.

I swear to the gods, if that guy and the whole lot of them was bullshitting this whole time about a fork,

I'm completely serious in my support for the Bitcoin Cash efforts. But it has been years since I controlled any hashpower. I'm at the mercy of the miners like the rest of y'all.

Don't fret. There's always MMR and Nicehash.

[bones261]

Whats the scoop on trezor, can you move BCC directly to an exchange from there ? I wanna dump that garbage first thing tom morning

They are going to do a firmware update to the Trezor, and it will include some process to move the BCC to different addresses. No firm date when the firmware will be available. You may have to wait, and by that time, your BCC will probably be dust unless you have lots of BTC.

https://blog.trezor.io/bitcoin-cash-hard-fork-chain-split-safe-guide-abbe3e9c553f

Does ledger's coin splitting process occur more quickly?

If you want to be safe, it's kind of irrelevant. I wouldn't be moving any coins anywhere for at least 2 days or so anyway.

My plan is to HODL for a little while, and wait for a dead cat bounce. I may possibly wait for a Ver/Jihan/Big Blocker pump. I'd be surprised if they just let BCC get permanently ground into dust right from the start.

I was not planning to move anything , and I agree with you that a couple of days may be a minimum expectation.  I was just wondering if Bones, or anyone else, might know if Ledger already has some kind of splitting software (or firmware) that is already in place?

Yes, looks like they are ready. I don't own a ledger, but seems easy enough.

https://blog.ledger.co/managing-the-bitcoin-cash-fork-7229dde3f358

[JayJuanGee]

Whats the scoop on trezor, can you move BCC directly to an exchange from there ? I wanna dump that garbage first thing tom morning

They are going to do a firmware update to the Trezor, and it will include some process to move the BCC to different addresses. No firm date when the firmware will be available. You may have to wait, and by that time, your BCC will probably be dust unless you have lots of BTC.

https://blog.trezor.io/bitcoin-cash-hard-fork-chain-split-safe-guide-abbe3e9c553f

Does ledger's coin splitting process occur more quickly?

https://blog.ledger.co/securing-your-free-bitcoin-cash-stash-d50aff765688

Right after fork they will enable a BTC/BCC selector in the chrome app similar to the one already in place for ETH/ETC. So it will be pretty easy and straightforward.

Thanks bitserve.  That is very helpful to see how the ledger seems to have plans in place for a pretty quick update that will allow for coinsplitting - yet the Trezor has some timeline uncertainties regarding its deployment of those capabilities.

[bones261]

Thanks bitserve.  That is very helpful to see how the ledger seems to have plans in place for a pretty quick update that will allow for coinsplitting - yet the Trezor has some timeline uncertainties regarding its deployment of those capabilities.

I probably could use the BCC version of Electrum (called Electron Cash) to get them sooner. But I don't want to inadvertently screw up something royal. I'll just wait for Slush.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

How much powder for a four-fortissimo?

Come to think of it, weren't exploding noisemakers the thing that landed someone in the hoosegow?

In a sense, yes.

[matt4054]

Of course, the accelerated difficulty adjustment will keep ratcheting down 20% every 12 hours, until it is minable by GPU. If it makes ya feel any better, if it goes that long, I'll mine the first damned fork block. I've still got one of those USB FPGA hashing dongles around here somewhere...

Nah, I'll beat you to it!



Fun fact: the one on the top has cost me 50 BTC directly from friedcat, RIP

[JayJuanGee]

Issue in a nutshell:
- On a network where miners do not honor SegWit, all segwit transactions are 'anyone can spend' transactions
- On such a network, each successful miner can spend any 'anyone can spend' transaction to himself
- As segwit is used (e.g., on a segwit-honoring network), more value gets locked up in segwit/'anyone can spend' transactions
- As more value is built up in segwit/'anyone can spend' transactions, this increases the incentive for miners to flip the network from segwit-honoring to non-segwit
- This pressure increases with increasing use of segwit. Even if initially stable, the system tends further toward instability.
The net is that smallblockers need to trust the miners -- whom they seem to already believe to be evil -- to not steal their segwit transactions.

Of course, one can convert a segwit coin back to a bitcoin by spending it to yourself in a non-segwit transaction. But that also mandates a second transaction, thereby nullifying and even reversing segwit's so-called capacity increase.

Sounds very speculative and hypothetical to me.

No. Just No.

Please employ proper logic. Every bulleted item above is a factual statement. Would you like to challenge any of these factual statements on their own merit?

Whether or not those steps get chained together in reality is currently a matter of speculation, yes. But I made no such claim. A set of factual statements is not "speculative and hypothetical".  Any speculation as to the consequences of the above has been left to the reader.

That is nonsense.  I can make all kinds of factual statements, and then there is no consequence unless you can describe some kind of logical connection.

For example:

1) The sky is clear (meaning no clouds) today

2) Billy bob drives a Toyota Prius

3) That window is dangerous because it slams down without any restraints

4) The goat eats a lot of grass, especially for its size.

5) The Iphone will be damaged if you drop it in the toilet, because it is an Iphone 4

6) If any one of those lightbulbs burn out, then the whole chain does not work,

7) e = mc squared


No matter the string of facts, the jbreher Conclusion is:  Segwit is going to be a disaster for bitcoin because it is too complicated, and even though segwit is a done deal, I am going to continue to whine about it and assert that we should employ a more simple and straight forward solution of increasing to 2mb block limits.   

[MinermanNC]

Well all seems quiet on the western front 

Business as usual, and then some....

[TeeBone]

The paper holds their folded faces to the floor. And every day, the paperboy brings more.

[r0ach]

Michael Pento says metals will have broken all time highs by late 2018 and bitcoin useless:

https://youtu.be/U3qHMPgYy4c?t=1432

[pfrtlpfmpf]

guys, my buy/sell is disabled on Stamp, as of now ! Can view my account though.

Edit: Up again, they don´t know, what to do. Placed an order, but i don´t know where that went  

[Torque]

Michael Pento says metals will have broken all time highs by late 2018 and bitcoin useless:

https://youtu.be/U3qHMPgYy4c?t=1432

His quotes:
"That's the beauty about gold... it's extremely limited in supply" [as if bitcoin's aren't??]
"...and neither of those attributes [such as limited supply] can be said about ANY digital currency" WTF??

I happen to like Mike Pento, but he really needs to do some more research on Bitcoin before he makes such statements.

[bones261]

"That's the beauty about gold... it's extremely limited in supply" [as if bitcoin's aren't??]
"...and neither of those attributes [such as limited supply] can be said about ANY digital currency" WTF??

I happen to like Mike Pento, but he really needs to do some more research on Bitcoin before he makes such statements.

That's almost like saying the 1955 D double die error penny is worthless because there's lots of pennies. 

[r0ach]

Michael Pento says metals will have broken all time highs by late 2018 and bitcoin useless:

https://youtu.be/U3qHMPgYy4c?t=1432

His quotes:
"That's the beauty about gold... it's extremely limited in supply" [as if bitcoin's aren't??]
"...and neither of those attributes [such as limited supply] can be said about ANY digital currency" WTF??

I happen to like Mike Pento, but he really needs to do some more research on Bitcoin before he makes such statements.

He's not stupid, he knows there's 900+ craptocurrencies and there's more incentive to create your own new pump and dump like Ethereum rather than be forced to buy someone else's already cornered scamcoin.  There will always be a market incentive to create new coins as well rather than people paying $5, $10, $100, or $1000 transaction fees.  The greater fool concept only works if people actually need what you have.  

If Elwar corners all 21 million bitcoins, guess what?  It doesn't mean anything to me.  I can just ignore him and go on with life and use metals or create my own craptocurrency to bypass him.  If I corner all $40 billion or so of above ground silver, you don't get to bypass me since it's actually a non-virtual good that's used in lots of things.  A "virtual commodity" as a concept definitely ranks up there as one of the biggest economic scams of all time.

[Dafar]

Michael Pento says metals will have broken all time highs by late 2018 and bitcoin useless:

https://youtu.be/U3qHMPgYy4c?t=1432

His quotes:
"That's the beauty about gold... it's extremely limited in supply" [as if bitcoin's aren't??]
"...and neither of those attributes [such as limited supply] can be said about ANY digital currency" WTF??

I happen to like Mike Pento, but he really needs to do some more research on Bitcoin before he makes such statements.

He's not stupid, he knows there's 900+ craptocurrencies and there's more incentive to create your own new pump and dump like Ethereum rather than be forced to buy someone else's already cornered scamcoin.  There will always be a market incentive to create new coins as well rather than people paying $5, $10, $100, or $1000 transaction fees.  The greater fool concept only works if people actually need what you have.  

If Elwar corners all 21 million bitcoins, guess what?  It doesn't mean anything to me.  I can just ignore him and go on with life and use metals or create my own craptocurrency to bypass him.  If I corner all $40 billion or so of above ground silver, you don't get to bypass me since it's actually a non-virtual good that's used in lots of things.  A "virtual commodity" as a concept definitely ranks up there as one of the biggest economic scams of all time.

No, he's pretty stupid if he thinks gold will outperform bitcoin lol 

[bones261]

 If I corner all $40 billion or so of above ground silver, you don't get to bypass me since it's actually a non-virtual good that's used in lots of things. 

How would you store it?

[Ted E. Bare]

r0ach completely lost it. Can we ignore this guy already?

[traincarswreck]

By Szabo's definitions if you are unsure about bitcoin/bcc's future then you should diversify... (self.Bitcoin)

This means if you are unwilling to selling half your bitcoin equity for bcc then the strategy you have chosen is that bitcoin will win out. This goes for r/btc'ers and anyone claiming to favor bcc.

Sitting on only a proportion of bitcoin and airdropped bcc is not a proper vote for being unsure of the outcome. If you don't at least split your equity, whether you admit it or not, your strategy is heavily weighted towards bitcoin

[r0ach]

Michael Pento says metals will have broken all time highs by late 2018 and bitcoin useless:

https://youtu.be/U3qHMPgYy4c?t=1432

His quotes:
"That's the beauty about gold... it's extremely limited in supply" [as if bitcoin's aren't??]
"...and neither of those attributes [such as limited supply] can be said about ANY digital currency" WTF??

I happen to like Mike Pento, but he really needs to do some more research on Bitcoin before he makes such statements.

He's not stupid, he knows there's 900+ craptocurrencies and there's more incentive to create your own new pump and dump like Ethereum rather than be forced to buy someone else's already cornered scamcoin.  There will always be a market incentive to create new coins as well rather than people paying $5, $10, $100, or $1000 transaction fees.  The greater fool concept only works if people actually need what you have.  

If Elwar corners all 21 million bitcoins, guess what?  It doesn't mean anything to me.  I can just ignore him and go on with life and use metals or create my own craptocurrency to bypass him.  If I corner all $40 billion or so of above ground silver, you don't get to bypass me since it's actually a non-virtual good that's used in lots of things.  A "virtual commodity" as a concept definitely ranks up there as one of the biggest economic scams of all time.

No, he's pretty stupid if he thinks gold will outperform bitcoin lol  

The market cap of above ground silver and bitcoin is similar now.  Bitcoin is no longer some cheap penny stock.  The US gold vs debt chart with 92% correlation shows gold will hit at least $2200 in the next bull run, which would bring the GSR to 30:1 or lower ($73 silver).  Bitcoin would need to hit $12,000 to compete with that almost guaranteed silver upside in the near future.  

But that's a very conservative number for just a stable market situation.  In a real crisis situation and rush to hard assets, gold would be more like $5000 and $166 silver or more.  Or a government metals revaluation of gold to $10k and silver to 1:15 ratio of astronomically high numbers like $600 silver.  Bitcoin would need to be able to hit $100k each to compete with that possible silver upside.  It will never happen.  Big corporations will just create their own scamcoins and try to force people into them and the crypto market cap will be divided up between 50 different coins (also due to poor scalability and high fees), unlike the metals market where you can't just "invent" a new gold or silver and are forced to buy the real thing.