Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[jbreher]

my problem with selling bitcoin cash and moving it to BTC proper is taxes. IF I ignore it the IRS may call it a stock split...

Granted, we're in somewhat uncharted territory here, but I really don't see what the problem is. For 'merkans, probably the closest model is a corporate spinout - like when HP (HPQ) split into HP Inc and HPE. On the day of the split, the cost bases were adjusted (or determined). The value of HP Inc stock plus HPE stock at t=0+ was equal to the value of HPQ at t=0-. No taxable event, just an accounting adjustment to the cost basis for when you actually do sell.

Of course, when you do sell, that is a taxable event. Did you expect otherwise? Of course the IRS is gonna get a share of your windfall. But using this model*, the tax would be owed upon the gain, which would be based upon the cost basis determined at the fork -- not on the entire value of what you are selling.

*Again, this is likely uncharted territory. But this is a perfectly fine model. I can't imagine anything closer. Can you?

It could be considered a like-kind exchange.

If they did not go through fiat, certainly I would argue. But I thought the discussion was cashing out of Bitcoin Cash.

Though...getting the additional coins in the first place...income? dividend? magic?

No - a spinout as described above. These things happen to stocks from time to time. Use that model. Hence, my HP example.

[JayJuanGee]

If BCH succeeds in killing BTC, then:
1) There will be a general crash in crypto because it will be proved that they can be killed by such attacks; and
2) There are many better coins than BCH to play with.

Nonsense. If the market moves strongly to Bitcoin Cash over Bitcoin Core, then the narrative that 'Bitcoin Cash is The Real Bitcoin' will have been proven true.

That is a BIG fucking
IF ,
Jbreher.

Hey, now. It's not my 'if' - it's coinosphere.tk's 'if'. I didn't set up the hypothetical. I was just fixing the conclusion.

Fair enough.....

And, concededly none of these "if"s are really fleshed out very well... in terms of how we supposedly would arrive at such an hypothetical state of affairs, which the route there also has a lot of variables and even could affect the outcome depending on the route travelled.

[edited out]

If they did not go through fiat, certainly I would argue. But I thought the discussion was cashing out of Bitcoin Cash.

Actually, you could be correct that whether one cashes out into bitcoin is one thing or cashes out into cash is another thing; however, if one leaves the cash on the exchange then that is another thing too.... so one thing is having a "taxable" event, and another thing is having a traceable event.

[Karartma1]

BearStamp says $4601.93: still $400 to go if we have to reach 5k.
Volume is low we need more useless fiat money into the game to destroy the $5000 mark. Or altcoin holders should go back to btc for good

[AlcoHoDL]

A very good morning to all,

Bitcoin Euro-ATH was broken several times since y'day... Now at 3898 €/BTC (Kraken).  

Bitcoin Cash is also gaining slightly, now at 491 €/BCH (Kraken).

So, it seems the current poll will be (pleasantly) proven wrong... Let's hope there won't be any major dump coming. I know 10k € (a 2.5x increase) seems too optimistic for the end of the year, but you never know, it happened last year, why not this year too?

[ErisDiscordia]

We're a few USD from the ATH and yet...



EDIT: New ATH at Stamp

[empowering]

Hype cycle in full effect...

Bitcoin Is The New 'Gold'  (Peter Schiff and R0ach spinning in their graves)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/08/30/bitcoin-is-the-new-gold/#52c2d52c3b36

https://www.forbes.com/sites/naeemaslam/2017/08/29/is-it-time-to-own-gold-or-bitcoin/#36c5374d7f5d

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2017/08/30/moscow-stock-exchange-opens-to-crypto-currency-trade/#62b6ba5726d1

(^^ Apparently forbes wants to write about BTC everyday -sometimes twice a day! )

Hype Tsunami...

That is just Forbes and from a few days.... search Google for Bitcoin forbes and its ....relentless... andthat is just them...the MSM attention is relentless..

Also - the Russians fakeout "we are considering clamping down on cryptos and banning them"  FAKEOUT ! we will create worlds  first Crypto stock market !! Stick  that in your never ending ETF pipe and smoke  it !! slow coaches!! you snooze you lose !!


 

 

[1982dre]

They wanna go up on BitStamp. Small 100 wall was eaten damn quickly.

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

Looks poised for another leg up.

[soullyG]

New ATH 

[Wexlike]

Another day, another ATH. What a boring year. 

[becoin]

New ATH! Damn! I have still some BCH to sell.

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

New ATH! Damn! I have still some BCH to sell.

Interesting to note that, this time, as BTC just made a new ATH, the altcoins in general did not suffer considerably. Is this the starting leg for a new monster altcoin rally?

[empowering]

New ATH! Damn! I have still some BCH to sell.

Interesting to note that, this time, as BTC just made a new ATH, the altcoins in general did not suffer considerably. Is this the starting leg for a new monster altcoin rally?

Very possible -  especially the top 20 (I wonder if the top 10- and top 20 and the rest of the market will separate)


(pps I expect more indexes to pop up like http://www.bittwenty.com/ (and others)  and more fund managers to allocate funds to them)

[Wekkel]

$10k estimates for this run will prove too low.

[empowering]

Six of the world’s biggest banks have joined a project to create a new form of digital cash that they hope to launch next year for clearing and settling financial transactions over blockchain, the technology underpinning bitcoin.



https://www.ft.com/content/20c10d58-8d9c-11e7-a352-e46f43c5825d


Such innovation!

Such wow!

[becoin]

New ATH! Damn! I have still some BCH to sell.

Interesting to note that, this time, as BTC just made a new ATH, the altcoins in general did not suffer considerably. Is this the starting leg for a new monster altcoin rally?

It is always more of the same.

Suppose you've sold your bitcoins at $4000 in anticipation of "imminent and unavoidable" correction. And you wait and wait and wait.... But bitcoin tops $4500. What will you do when you lose patience and start panic for being fiat bagholder? Buying at $4500 is a disaster and unacceptable from psychological point of view. People don't like to confess they've made a mistake. So, they throw all their fiat at the altcoins and hope that the altcoin they've chosen will catch up with bitcoin appreciation. That is all. It is really simple. People prefer to own 5 units of something than 0.000045 units of something else even if the latter is something more stable and more valuable.

[bitcoinPsycho]

It's official bitcoin is the new gold

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/08/30/bitcoin-is-the-new-gold/?c=0&s=trending#3b10431c1365

"Apparently, Bitcoin is more popular than gold among investors, as a hedge against rising global uncertainties.  Growing mistrust of national currencies, following dubious government policies, has pushed people into Bitcoin"

[Denker]

$10k estimates for this run will prove too low.

Well that needs to be seen. Let's go for 5k first and then see how the market reacts. 5000 is some psychological number where I definitely expect some strong resistance and profit taking. This could be the range for another correction/bigger dip and then it will get pretty interesting if the market still has balls to continue moving upwards.

[empowering]

New ATH! Damn! I have still some BCH to sell.

Interesting to note that, this time, as BTC just made a new ATH, the altcoins in general did not suffer considerably. Is this the starting leg for a new monster altcoin rally?

It is always more of the same.

Suppose you've sold your bitcoins at $4000 in anticipation of "imminent and unavoidable" correction. And you wait and wait and wait.... But bitcoin tops $4500. What will you do when you lose patience and start panic for being fiat bagholder? Buying at $4500 is a disaster and unacceptable from psychological point of view. People don't like to confess they've made a mistake. So, they throw all their fiat at the altcoins and hope that the altcoin they've chosen will catch up with bitcoin appreciation. That is all. It is really simple. People prefer to own 5 units of something than 0.000045 units of something else even if the latter is something more stable and more valuable.

Hmmm... that is one type  of alt investor.

There are others... some people never sell their BTC  and throw fresh fiat at alts

Or day trade for profits using BTC or whatever is hot and throw that at alts.

Some will be throwing $  at BTC and alts - the market is growing,and  arguably maturing, some of the chaff has been cut -  or at least this is the perception.. alts that service niches and that are maturing on their  roadmaps - that have somewhat proven themselves- are now more of a thing than before.  I think we  will see "large-cap" and "small-cap"coins be a thing

Of course...many speculators in alts are trying to earn more BTC ultimately.


I am expecting 1 trillion overall marketcap  within 1-1.5 years...  and making that up will be many of the current top 10+top 20 and no  doubt some new comers...


It is going to be interesting to see the coins and the communities and the businesses within the ecosystems - mature and deploy marketing and start REALLY getting footholds in legacy markets...

Rising tides.

[empowering]

It's official bitcoin is the new gold

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/08/30/bitcoin-is-the-new-gold/?c=0&s=trending#3b10431c1365

"Apparently, Bitcoin is more popular than gold among investors, as a hedge against rising global uncertainties.  Growing mistrust of national currencies, following dubious government policies, has pushed people into Bitcoin"

"apparently"  doesn't mean jack until BTC has a larger marketcap than gold- til then its just talk..

Lets get to 1% of the gold market first