Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[jbreher]

A very very worse case scenario would be that 2x garners network support and becomes the new bitcoin

Certainly, I personally believe there is a very good chance that BCH becomes the victor of the enforkenating. I assume you merely cast this off as implausible?

But really, if S2X emerges the victor, is that really a 'worst case' for you Core acolytes? Seems to me that there ain't more than a RCH difference between S1X and S2X. Sure, a handful of overly-entitled neckbeards either whiny-ragequit or have their bluffs exposed. Other than that, what?


Again only tangentially related: the arcane mechanism by which 'US GDP growth rate' is calculated.
But first! Be prepared to be stunned and amazed!
http://netrightdaily.com/2017/11/average-annual-gdp-growth-not-think/

[bones261]

TORQUE!!!

<bro fist> Sorry, was away for awhile tending to some things.  

Btw this is unrelated to my going dark, but for years I had heard the rumors of certain Legendary users being approached by other anonymous users with offers to sell their accounts to them. And even rumors that some had taken them up on it.

Well... it's now happened to me too. "Name your price", he said. I find it all amusing. Just know that I am a person of integrity and would never do something like that, no matter what the offer was. Anyone who wants to buy your account intends to impersonate you and do bad things with it.  No thanks.

How much do accounts like ours go for, anyway? Surely he has a max price in mind.

You can go here to find out how much your account is worth. https://www.bctalkaccountpricer.info/
Just checked mine. Mine is worth 0.19880000 BTC.  NOT FOR SALE!
@Torque They probably want your legendary account to either scam people, launch a shitcoin, or get paid a premium with signature campaigns.

[AlexGR]

But really, if S2X emerges the victor, is that really a 'worst case' for you Core acolytes? Seems to me that there ain't more than a RCH difference between S1X and S2X. Sure, a handful of overly-entitled neckbeards either whiny-ragequit or have their bluffs exposed. Other than that, what?

You are missing the point. If a bunch of people can meet and redefine what Bitcoin is, then that's the major problem right there - because at that point it has been proven that Bitcoin can be controlled or co-opted.

Why would anyone need a coin which is controlled by a group of guys who meet behind closed doors and take decisions for its future? We have FED and ECB currency for this.

Bitcoin has big inertia in order to change its rules, and that is ok because the alternative goes against the decentralization which Bitcoin stands for.

[marcus_of_augustus]

So is the general consensus that everyone's going to dump their s2x coins asap?

To get at my keys I'd have to travel to Antarctica, dig down through 40M of ice, disarm the traps (non trivial undertaking even knowing how they are set up) cut open the welded shut vault and then defrost the Pentium 3 inside.

pffft ... and you call that security?

To get my keys I'd have to travel to Kilimanjaro, hike up to a cave guarded by Chaga clan's finest warriors where the climax of a violent ritual releases the participant into the inner caves and there a map and keys to a secret location on a remote Pacific atoll housing a base for an ultra-deep submarine, guarded by native Melanesian ninjas, from where the submarine is used to dive to the greatest depths achievable in the Mariana trench where the seed phrase etched onto a titanium plaque is only readable by a special microscope.

[LewisPirenne]

Even if the miners are angry with the Core team, it is still more rational for them to mine the most profitable chain and then sell the coins for whichever coins they prefer (like BCH).  If miners are willing to mine a coin with huge losses for weeks on end to prove their point, then it goes against White Paper's premise of being rational, profit maxmizing, playing nice, and would be treated as an attack.  It would imply that there is a risk of other side using the nuke (e.g. POW change) and users exit on masses to another chain, leaving miners with their obsolete equipment and worthless coins.  Naturally that would be a lose-lose situation.  When people advocates using nukes, don't forget that other people have nukes too and could have even more nukes than one had imagined.  

Now just being contrarian, what if the price of bitcoin actually went UP, instead of down, even if hashrate switch to another chain en masse?  Then it would just prove the point of critics that bitcoin is not used for payment, but rather as a storage of wealth and tool for speculation?  Thus those thinking that increase the payment utility would increase the value of network, even at risk of more centralization, are just deluding themselves?  

As for the previous discussion on why it's irrational to spend highly deflationary currency such as Bitcoin. it is more of "so now we are aware of inherent limitation posed by the design, and there are trade-offs if we want to change that design, so what can we do to encourage its original purpose, i.e. spending and utility as a payment network?"  Early adopters are highly altruistic and ideological, but game theoretics do require the system to work based on the masses acting rational and self-interested, not on just a few people being altruistic, whether miners or users.  
 

[jbreher]

But really, if S2X emerges the victor, is that really a 'worst case' for you Core acolytes? Seems to me that there ain't more than a RCH difference between S1X and S2X. Sure, a handful of overly-entitled neckbeards either whiny-ragequit or have their bluffs exposed. Other than that, what?

You are missing the point. If a bunch of people can meet and redefine what Bitcoin is, then that's the major problem right there - because at that point it has been proven that Bitcoin can be controlled or co-opted.

Disagree. In my understanding of Bitcoin, the economic majority decides which is the One True Bitcoin.

You don't even need 'a bunch of people'. Anyone -- collectively or individually -- can code up alternate protocol rules and offer it to the community. But the One True Bitcoin is only the one that that the economic majority adopts. We all redefine it together. By definition.

... forget about bear, he is beyond reason. Sucking corporate dick while taking it up the ass from chinese miners has caused him to lose sight of anything bitcoin was meant to be about.

You have a point to make, or has your intellectual capacity left you bereft of anything to say other than playground insults?

I mean, if you had some evidence to support your fellative and sodomative claims, that would be one thing. But you don't, do you?

[gembitz]

I see you bumbling imbeciles haff not yet completed vave 5.

tick, tock,...

What the fuck?   NOW I am getting ANGRY!!!! - (a little dramatic effect should not hurt, here)...


You mean that after all of this discussion of "wave 5", we have not even arrived at it yet?


 

I am really ANGRY, if you cannot tell...


And it is not a "gay" type of mad, either.   

$7500 choo choo



wee!

[marcus_of_augustus]

... forget about bear, he is beyond reason. Sucking corporate dick while taking it up the ass from chinese miners has caused him to lose sight of anything bitcoin was meant to be about.

You have a point to make, or has your intellectual capacity left you bereft of anything to say other than playground insults?

I mean, if you had some evidence to support your fellative and sodomative claims, that would be one thing. But you don't, do you?

Your ridiculously contrived intellectualism that drips from every empty post of yours is all the evidence needed.

You are dick deep in this hoping for a reach around from Jihan. It's is as simple as hard fork now or later. After all the power-plays, shit-slinging, slander and defamation from your camp of whiners all you have left is faux reason. 20 Mb now!, became 8Mb now!, became 2Mb now!, became SegWit will destroy us!, became sack the core devs now! became BCH now! ... it's totally pathetic and beyond any reasonable or technical discussion. The infants didn't get their way, got their bottoms smacked and now want to pretend to play nice again. Fuck off you imbeciles and let the adults get to work already.

[Torque]

... forget about bear, he is beyond reason. Sucking corporate dick while taking it up the ass from chinese miners has caused him to lose sight of anything bitcoin was meant to be about.

You have a point to make, or has your intellectual capacity left you bereft of anything to say other than playground insults?

I mean, if you had some evidence to support your fellative and sodomative claims, that would be one thing. But you don't, do you?

Your ridiculously contrived intellectualism that drips from every empty post of yours is all the evidence needed.

You are dick deep in this hoping for a reach around from Jihan. It's is as simple as hard fork now or later. After all the power-plays, shit-slinging, slander and defamation from your camp of whiners all you have left is faux reason. 20 Mb now!, became 8Mb now!, became 2Mb now!, became SegWit will destroy us!, became sack the core devs now! became BCH now! ... it's totally pathetic and beyond any reasonable or technical discussion. The infants didn't get their way, got their bottoms smacked and now want to pretend to play nice again. Fuck off you imbeciles and let the adults get to work already.

bear #rekt by MoA

[Torque]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrLr7MdyyLg

Confirmed @11:50 what I've always suspected to be true: fractional reserve shares (aka "phantom shares") in the U.S. stock market are real. I fkn knew it! That along with collateralized and even naked re-hypo liens on personal/corp shares exactly confirms why when the U.S. stock market crashes, it crashes so hard.... because of all the unwinding.

[sirazimuth]

When all this forking business dust settles sometime in the next couple of weeks or so 
I predict there is going to be some serious eating of crow....

[jojo69]

So is the general consensus that everyone's going to dump their s2x coins asap?

To get at my keys I'd have to travel to Antarctica, dig down through 40M of ice, disarm the traps (non trivial undertaking even knowing how they are set up) cut open the welded shut vault and then defrost the Pentium 3 inside.

pffft ... and you call that security?

To get my keys I'd have to travel to Kilimanjaro, hike up to a cave guarded by Chaga clan's finest warriors where the climax of a violent ritual releases the participant into the inner caves and there a map and keys to a secret location on a remote Pacific atoll housing a base for an ultra-deep submarine, guarded by native Melanesian ninjas, from where the submarine is used to dive to the greatest depths achievable in the Mariana trench where the seed phrase etched onto a titanium plaque is only readable by a special microscope.

god      dayum


Imma have to up my game

[Icygreen]

How much do accounts like ours go for, anyway? Surely he has a max price in mind.

I dunno, his PM just said "Name your price." I didn't reply, and don't plan to.

Nice to see you back! Was starting to wonder.
Is the user anonymous or can you out the user name at least?

[Ibian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrLr7MdyyLg

Confirmed @11:50 what I've always suspected to be true: fractional reserve shares (aka "phantom shares") in the U.S. stock market are real. I fkn knew it! That along with collateralized and even naked re-hypo liens on personal/corp shares exactly confirms why when the U.S. stock market crashes, it crashes so hard.... because of all the unwinding.

Where it is possible to cheat and there is a low chance of getting caught or punished if caught, someone will cheat. Scott Adams pointed this out during the election and it holds true in life in general.

[Torque]

Nice to see you back! Was starting to wonder.
Is the user anonymous or can you out the user name at least?

I thought about that. Should I out him? It's a newb account with like a dozen or so posts. But interestingly, it doesn't fit the profile of a typical throwaway troll account. His initial posts seem to indicate that he's perhaps somewhat young-ish and passionate about Bitcoin, pro-Bitcoin beyond just making money. I know posts can be deceiving though.

I thought that maybe I would just let it lie for now. Maybe if he is reading this then perhaps he will realize that he made a rash decision in PM'ing me and regret it. I always try to give people second chances to make right.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Nice to see you back! Was starting to wonder.
Is the user anonymous or can you out the user name at least?

I thought about that. Should I out him? It's a newb account with like a dozen or so posts. But interestingly, it doesn't fit the profile of a typical throwaway troll account. His initial posts seem to indicate that he's perhaps somewhat young-ish and passionate about Bitcoin, pro-Bitcoin beyond just making money. I know posts can be deceiving though.

I thought that maybe I would just let it lie for now. Maybe if he is reading this then perhaps he will realize that he made a rash decision in PM'ing me and regret it. I always try to give people second chances to make right.

I'd take it as a compliment. Nobody ever tried to buy me out. Not even Marcus just to shut me up.

[jojo69]

I always try to give people second chances to make right.

the thinking man's troll

[Icygreen]

Nice to see you back! Was starting to wonder.
Is the user anonymous or can you out the user name at least?

I thought about that. Should I out him? It's a newb account with like a dozen or so posts. But interestingly, it doesn't fit the profile of a typical throwaway troll account. His initial posts seem to indicate that he's perhaps somewhat young-ish and passionate about Bitcoin, pro-Bitcoin beyond just making money. I know posts can be deceiving though.

I thought that maybe I would just let it lie for now. Maybe if he is reading this then perhaps he will realize that he made a rash decision in PM'ing me and regret it. I always try to give people second chances to make right.

Respect!

[JayJuanGee]

TORQUE!!!

<bro fist> Sorry, was away for awhile tending to some things.  

Btw this is unrelated to my going dark, but for years I had heard the rumors of certain Legendary users being approached by other anonymous users with offers to sell their accounts to them. And even rumors that some had taken them up on it.

Well... it's now happened to me too. "Name your price", he said. I find it all amusing. Just know that I am a person of integrity and would never do something like that, no matter what the offer was. Anyone who wants to buy your account intends to impersonate you and do bad things with it.  No thanks.

It's not worth it... .. .. but how are we going to know for sure?  OMG   

[JayJuanGee]

A very very worse case scenario would be that 2x garners network support and becomes the new bitcoin

Certainly, I personally believe there is a very good chance that BCH becomes the victor of the enforkenating. I assume you merely cast this off as implausible?

Sure you want to throw a monkey wrench in my framing of various scenarios to add another possible scenario that to me seems to me to be less plausible than a segwit2x take-over... so you are correct that I am perceiving such a supposed BCH take over scenario as less plausible than a segwit2x take over... .

Part of my reasoning is that BCH seems to already have proven itself as crap, corrupted, quasi-centralized, so I can't really imagine any reasonably plausible scenario that would cause BTC networking effects to migrate over to BCH, at least NOT on any kind of sustainable scenario.

But really, if S2X emerges the victor, is that really a 'worst case' for you Core acolytes?

hahahahaha.. you goofie picnic food stealing bear.....

"core acolytes" is a name for someone like me who is continuing to find nonsense in the various attack ploys and propaganda coming from BIG blockers...


Let me see if I can address this.  I understand that frequently you do not appreciate my way of framing these matters; however, it seems to make a whole hell-of-a lot more sense that I call names to attackers and to non-status quo whiners than for you and other nonsense BIG blockers to continue to attack and denigrate and try to suggest that  "core acolytes" are an actual category of equals.  These "core acolytes" are not part of any religion, and don't have any duty to justify anything.. Instead , those challenging the system have the duty to justify and persuade with facts and/or logic.. and they continuously are not able to do such justification to get the bitcoin system changed, so instead they attack and try to destroy with ongoing seemingly more desperate mechanisms.. and hoping that sooner or later they are going to attract actual and meaningful networking support to their ongoing lame-ass side.  Maybe if they actually used reasonable and merit based measures, then perhaps (seems a long shot) they could graduate above and beyond "lame-ass?"  perhaps?

Seems to me that there ain't more than a RCH difference between S1X and S2X.

I don't know what is RCH, and you could be correct that there is NOT much of a difference, and maybe for that reason , we could see that logically there is a problem to attempt to take over the whole fucking thing of bitcoin over some stupid-ass minor difference for which there is little to no justification in terms of logic and/or facts that would cause it to be necessary in any kind of way beyond a bunch of whiners who say that they want it.

Sure, a handful of overly-entitled neckbeards either whiny-ragequit or have their bluffs exposed. Other than that, what?

I think that your reference to whiners and my reference to whiners if different, but I believe that I understand what you are getting at.  So you are going with the scenario that S2x becomes the new bitcoin, and then you are supposing that everything is the same, except for some whiny core developers would quit.. which you characterize as a kind of trivial thing.  Go figure the amount of spinning going on, here, to be kind of narrowly describing and denigrating core developers.. and I suppose that is also part of the problem with S2x, is that they personalize the bullshit when they would be welcome to contribute to core (and bitcoin) if they stop acting like a bunch of kids and engage in constructive contributions that are based on factual and/or logical backings...

Sure, not every proposal has to be factual and logical and could include some other considerations, but seems that if some of these immature BIG blockers were able to grow up a bit, remove some of their emotional and personal animosity, then there could be some ways that they would actually be able to positively affect the direction of bitcoin, perhaps?

Again only tangentially related: the arcane mechanism by which 'US GDP growth rate' is calculated.
But first! Be prepared to be stunned and amazed!
http://netrightdaily.com/2017/11/average-annual-gdp-growth-not-think/

Does "tangentially related" also mean irrelevant to the current discussion?  Don't you need to make some kind of connection, and even if you might be presenting some non-controversial data, but what is the connection to the current topic?