Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[TheKoziTwo]

How do you deal with capital gains? Ignore it?

I would have some... but I lost most of my private keys in an unfortunate boat accident.

Wow that blows... Sorry to hear that man

Also, not everyone lives in the US.
Some have special retirement accounts protected from taxation.
Other can deduce borrowed money when it's paid back.
I might have earn them with my business which accept Bitcoin and paid income tax then.

Really, taxation is a complicated game.
And as usual, those with the less money are those who will pay more.

I'm not living in the US either, but about 97% of my BTC value is pure profit. If I sold out now I would have to pay ~30% in capital gains. That would require one hell of a trade to just break even (ok, maybe no biggie if I had balls like you). I could technically ignore reporting it, it's kind of a gray area, but I donno, the tax man would probably eat me alive if I did that.  

Oh well, guess I'm stuck holding, for the longest time.  

If you are planning to transfer "for good" significant funds to your personal account to realize fiat denominated profit, it's always better to declare it and pay for it. Not because of some sort of perverted morality, just because you will avoid potential problems in the future.

As Frozenlock said, as usual those with less money are those who pay more. Everything depends on how big are the gains you want to "cash out". If those gains are big enough, you can easily build a structure that will make you save a lot of money. But if they are not, you end up paying more. You "cannot afford" to save on taxes

I'm just talking about selling and leaving fiat on mtgox. Technically you then have converted to money and will have to cashout ~30% of it from mtgox to pay taxes. Then, you'll have to try to make those 30% back by trading. That means it's sort of silly to sell unless you're up for one hell of a trade, or unless you sell no more than the amount you originally put in (which is what I've done so far, in those few trades i've done).

[Frozenlock]

I'm happy to see that even with all the "bearish" talk, most of you still have your BTCs.

This means we can go much, much lower. 

[TheKoziTwo]

I'm happy to see that even with all the "bearish" talk, most of you still have your BTCs.

This means we can go much, much lower. 

[Rampion]

I cannot even imagine being totally out. Every man needs his untouchable paper wallet. The feeling of being 100% out has to be unbearable even for the biggest bear

I guess it is a bit different if you mined. I casually mine LTC (2.5/day) and I don't even care about their price, shorting them etc. The mindset changes completely once you buy virtual currency.

Still I can't bear (LOL) being 100% out. Feels too risky. Infrastructure is fragile and having all the eggs in one basket (fiat on exchanges) seems kinda reckless to me. A paper wallet with some long-term holdings feels good. I expect the price to go down, thus 100% fiat to buy cheaper would be more profitable, but I may be wrong, or Gox may be running fractional reserve and go bust at some point (unlikely, but are you willing to bet your right hand on it? Not worth the risk).

I guess I'm too emotionally attached to my BTC

I'd choose having my money in fiat on one of these exchanges over having my money in BTC... BTC might crash at any given point and fuck you over completely when it catches you off guard. And how exactly would mtgox run fractional reserve, only banks can do that... Given the amount of money that's being traded on Gox (millions), i'd say we're pretty safe... It wouldn't be easy to get away with theft of that magnitude.

Wow, I trust much more my BTC than fiat on an exchange. I'm trading, but I feel more comfortable holding my private keys than trusting a third party with my money. It's pretty much the whole point of Bitcoin. Anyhow, I accept and manage the risks involved in trusting my money to a third party - Gox and Bitstamp for example, and I proceed trying to factor all the risks. Thus, I won't trust all my "BTC money" to a third party, I prefer to keep some savings in BTC no matter what is the exchange rate.

Calle me hard-core believer, geek, rptard, but it's pretty much how it is

[lucas.sev]

This recent talk made me think - how many of people in this topic, who hold BTC are at loss from their average entry point?

[ardana123]

I cannot even imagine being totally out. Every man needs his untouchable paper wallet. The feeling of being 100% out has to be unbearable even for the biggest bear

I guess it is a bit different if you mined. I casually mine LTC (2.5/day) and I don't even care about their price, shorting them etc. The mindset changes completely once you buy virtual currency.

Still I can't bear (LOL) being 100% out. Feels too risky. Infrastructure is fragile and having all the eggs in one basket (fiat on exchanges) seems kinda reckless to me. A paper wallet with some long-term holdings feels good. I expect the price to go down, thus 100% fiat to buy cheaper would be more profitable, but I may be wrong, or Gox may be running fractional reserve and go bust at some point (unlikely, but are you willing to bet your right hand on it? Not worth the risk).

I guess I'm too emotionally attached to my BTC

I'd choose having my money in fiat on one of these exchanges over having my money in BTC... BTC might crash at any given point and fuck you over completely when it catches you off guard. And how exactly would mtgox run fractional reserve, only banks can do that... Given the amount of money that's being traded on Gox (millions), i'd say we're pretty safe... It wouldn't be easy to get away with theft of that magnitude.

Wow, I trust much more my BTC than fiat on an exchange. I'm trading, but I feel more comfortable holding my private keys than trusting a third party with my money. It's pretty much the whole point of Bitcoin. Anyhow, I accept and manage the risks involved in trusting my money to a third party - Gox and Bitstamp for example, and I proceed trying to factor all the risks. Thus, I won't trust all my "BTC money" to a third party, I prefer to keep some savings in BTC no matter what is the exchange rate.

Calle me hard-core believer, geek, rptard, but it's pretty much how it is

The thing is, since these exchanges operate within legal boundaries and the owners are known and probably documented by law enforcement agencies, we are somewhat safeguarded if our fiat were be stolen or abused by the owners of the exchange. There are systems in place in the real world which would combat criminal endeavours to steal our fiat. Bitcoin has none of those. It might all turn to shit tomorrow, that's the harsh truth of it all, and you wouldn't be able to do a damn thing to prevent it. Your coins might even get stolen from the exchange, and you wouldn't be able to do squat. You might be a "bitcoin believer", but i prefer to be realistic about this whole thing, and i think that's the smart thing to do as well instead of putting blind faith into all of this.

[Rampion]

I cannot even imagine being totally out. Every man needs his untouchable paper wallet. The feeling of being 100% out has to be unbearable even for the biggest bear

I guess it is a bit different if you mined. I casually mine LTC (2.5/day) and I don't even care about their price, shorting them etc. The mindset changes completely once you buy virtual currency.

Still I can't bear (LOL) being 100% out. Feels too risky. Infrastructure is fragile and having all the eggs in one basket (fiat on exchanges) seems kinda reckless to me. A paper wallet with some long-term holdings feels good. I expect the price to go down, thus 100% fiat to buy cheaper would be more profitable, but I may be wrong, or Gox may be running fractional reserve and go bust at some point (unlikely, but are you willing to bet your right hand on it? Not worth the risk).

I guess I'm too emotionally attached to my BTC

I'd choose having my money in fiat on one of these exchanges over having my money in BTC... BTC might crash at any given point and fuck you over completely when it catches you off guard. And how exactly would mtgox run fractional reserve, only banks can do that... Given the amount of money that's being traded on Gox (millions), i'd say we're pretty safe... It wouldn't be easy to get away with theft of that magnitude.

Wow, I trust much more my BTC than fiat on an exchange. I'm trading, but I feel more comfortable holding my private keys than trusting a third party with my money. It's pretty much the whole point of Bitcoin. Anyhow, I accept and manage the risks involved in trusting my money to a third party - Gox and Bitstamp for example, and I proceed trying to factor all the risks. Thus, I won't trust all my "BTC money" to a third party, I prefer to keep some savings in BTC no matter what is the exchange rate.

Calle me hard-core believer, geek, rptard, but it's pretty much how it is

The thing is, since these exchanges operate within legal boundaries and the owners are known and probably documented by law enforcement agencies, we are somewhat safeguarded if our fiat were be stolen or abused by the owners of the exchange. There are systems in place in the real world which would combat criminal endeavours to steal our fiat. Bitcoin has none of those. It might all turn to shit tomorrow, that's the harsh truth of it all, and you wouldn't be able to do a damn thing to prevent it. Your coins might even get stolen from the exchange, and you wouldn't be able to do squat. You might be a "bitcoin believer", but i prefer to be realistic about this whole thing, and i think that's the smart thing to do as well instead of putting blind faith into all of this.

Bear is approaching

[adamstgBit]

This recent talk made me think - how many of people in this topic, who hold BTC are at loss from their average entry point?

i would imagine very few people are sitting on a loss

[MAbtc]

The thing is, since these exchanges operate within legal boundaries and the owners are known and probably documented by law enforcement agencies, we are somewhat safeguarded if our fiat were be stolen or abused by the owners of the exchange. There are systems in place in the real world which would combat criminal endeavours to steal our fiat. Bitcoin has none of those. It might all turn to shit tomorrow, that's the harsh truth of it all, and you wouldn't be able to do a damn thing to prevent it. Your coins might even get stolen from the exchange, and you wouldn't be able to do squat. You might be a "bitcoin believer", but i prefer to be realistic about this whole thing, and i think that's the smart thing to do as well instead of putting blind faith into all of this.

Most likely situation, if this were to happen: DOJ swoops in, seizes/restrains bank accounts, presses civil case to recover assets... then after several years, account holders get paid pennies on the dollar out of a remission fund. If you feel safe with fiat on the exchanges, don't. (Same goes for BTC, obviously)

[ChartBuddy]

[BitcoinAshley]

How do you deal with capital gains? Ignore it?

I would have some... but I lost most of my private keys in an unfortunate boat accident.

Wow that blows... Sorry to hear that man

I think you missed the implied "wink wink"


EDIT: Also, he was illustrating the point of how easy it is to LEGALLY avoid taxes, provided you have lots of money. The more money you have, the easier it is to take advantage of legal structures specifically put in place to help rich folks avoid taxes. So that they can then donate to the political campaigns of those who put the legal structures in place.

Everything is going according to plan.

[adamstgBit]

How do you deal with capital gains? Ignore it?

I would have some... but I lost most of my private keys in an unfortunate boat accident.

Wow that blows... Sorry to hear that man

I think you missed the implied "wink wink"

lol
my dog ate my private keys 

[runam0k]

So how long before the price manipulators start selling?  Next couple of hours, right?  

[ardana123]

The thing is, since these exchanges operate within legal boundaries and the owners are known and probably documented by law enforcement agencies, we are somewhat safeguarded if our fiat were be stolen or abused by the owners of the exchange. There are systems in place in the real world which would combat criminal endeavours to steal our fiat. Bitcoin has none of those. It might all turn to shit tomorrow, that's the harsh truth of it all, and you wouldn't be able to do a damn thing to prevent it. Your coins might even get stolen from the exchange, and you wouldn't be able to do squat. You might be a "bitcoin believer", but i prefer to be realistic about this whole thing, and i think that's the smart thing to do as well instead of putting blind faith into all of this.

Most likely situation, if this were to happen: DOJ swoops in, seizes/restrains bank accounts, presses civil case to recover assets... then after several years, account holders get paid pennies on the dollar out of a remission fund. If you feel safe with fiat on the exchanges, don't. (Same goes for BTC, obviously)

Seriously, that fucking sucks. How does anyone feel safe with large funds on these exchanges?

[adamstgBit]

The thing is, since these exchanges operate within legal boundaries and the owners are known and probably documented by law enforcement agencies, we are somewhat safeguarded if our fiat were be stolen or abused by the owners of the exchange. There are systems in place in the real world which would combat criminal endeavours to steal our fiat. Bitcoin has none of those. It might all turn to shit tomorrow, that's the harsh truth of it all, and you wouldn't be able to do a damn thing to prevent it. Your coins might even get stolen from the exchange, and you wouldn't be able to do squat. You might be a "bitcoin believer", but i prefer to be realistic about this whole thing, and i think that's the smart thing to do as well instead of putting blind faith into all of this.

Most likely situation, if this were to happen: DOJ swoops in, seizes/restrains bank accounts, presses civil case to recover assets... then after several years, account holders get paid pennies on the dollar out of a remission fund. If you feel safe with fiat on the exchanges, don't. (Same goes for BTC, obviously)

Seriously, that fucking sucks. How does anyone feel safe with large funds on these exchanges?

youbikey!

[FCTaiChi]

[lucas.sev]

This recent talk made me think - how many of people in this topic, who hold BTC are at loss from their average entry point?

i would imagine very few people are sitting on a loss

So it's after majority will sit on loss we will be finished with the bubble

[Frozenlock]

So how long before the price manipulators start selling?  Next couple of hours, right?  

This time he will pump the price upward, just to surprise us and make maximum profit. 

[klee]

Rainbow Islands!

[adamstgBit]

This recent talk made me think - how many of people in this topic, who hold BTC are at loss from their average entry point?

i would imagine very few people are sitting on a loss

So it's after majority will sit on loss we will be finished with the bubble

yes and gold will drop to 100$ an oz for the same reasons