Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[wachtwoord]

It is completely like gold but better.

Gold does not have a price point at which all the electrical power generated in the world is used by gold.  Bitcoin has such a price point.

Dude electricity is irrelevant. Maintenance cost is relevant. For gold that cost is way higher (anti-counterfeiting measures, transporting, anti-scraping measures, storing, securing) than Bitcoin mining which also accomplishes all these things better.

People that keep focusing on electricity truly don't get it. Do yourself a favour and read the articles by Erik Voorhees I linked.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

It is completely like gold but better.

Gold does not have a price point at which all the electrical power generated in the world is used by gold.  Bitcoin has such a price point.

Bitcoin would never get to such a price point (and the electrical power would get more expensive).

[DougTanner]

Gox just broke ATH $620.

[Ivanhoe]

ATH again * yawn *

[CryptoMinter]

For once I'll say thank god there is gox to support the price otherwise bitstamp looks like it would go down the rabbit hole. What is going on over there and what happened to the order book? The bid at btcchina doesn't look impressive either.

Total bids: 6747666.1314018351  | Total asks: 3223422.1035258354

https://www.bitstamp.net/market/order_book/

There is like 1000btc in front of $400.

You should check the dump that happened 7-8 hours ago. No one blinked when stamp went from 525 to 471. Who takes that kind of slippage?

[Spaceman_Spiff]

It is completely like gold but better.

Gold does not have a price point at which all the electrical power generated in the world is used by gold.  Bitcoin has such a price point.

Dude electricity is irrelevant. Maintenance cost is relevant. For gold that cost is way higher (anti-counterfeiting measures, transporting, anti-scraping measures, storing, securing) than Bitcoin mining which also accomplishes all these things better.

People that keep focusing on electricity truly don't get it. Do yourself a favour and read the articles by Erik Voorhees I linked.

I don't think electricity is irrelevant.  The faster and higher bitcoin goes up in price, the more electricity will be consumed in these "high btc inflation" times.  If bitcoin reaches $100k overnight, the resulting mining activity (and energy consumption) will be huge, and largely for nothing, because past a certain point the increased security is just overkill.  But I guess that is the price to pay for the new monetary system.

[600watt]

ATH again * yawn *

man, i am tired of those 400s, 500s, bulk ath´s

[mestar]

But as noted by 600 watt, gold storage and transportation costs money too.

Yes, but this cost of gold will not be passing trough the exchanges (on the sell side as well) and push the price down, like the cost of Bitcoin will. 

As long as miners have costs that can't be paid in Bitcoins, a sizable chunk of that daily $2 million must pass trough exchanges, pushing the price down.  If you can't see this effect on the price today, that does not mean that the effect is not there.

And this effect, this downward pressure on the price is directly connected to the price of Bitcoin.  The higher the Bitcoin price, the stronger the downward pressure on the Bitcoin price.

[ardana123]

For once I'll say thank god there is gox to support the price otherwise bitstamp looks like it would go down the rabbit hole. What is going on over there and what happened to the order book? The bid at btcchina doesn't look impressive either.

Total bids: 6747666.1314018351  | Total asks: 3223422.1035258354

https://www.bitstamp.net/market/order_book/

There is like 1000btc in front of $400.

You should check the dump that happened 7-8 hours ago. No one blinked when stamp went from 525 to 471. Who takes that kind of slippage?

Someone who desperately wants out or wants to crash the market.

[lebing]

Stahp China! err mtgox err whoever just Stahp!

[Rannasha]

Stahp China! err mtgox err whoever just Stahp!

Belay that, carry on.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

But as noted by 600 watt, gold storage and transportation costs money too.

Yes, but this cost of gold will not be passing trough the exchanges (on the sell side as well) and push the price down, like the cost of Bitcoin will. 

As long as miners have costs that can't be paid in Bitcoins, a sizable chunk of that daily $2 million must pass trough exchanges, pushing the price down.  If you can't see this effect on the price today, that does not mean that the effect is not there.

And this effect, this downward pressure on the price is directly connected to the price of Bitcoin.  The higher the Bitcoin price, the stronger the downward pressure on the Bitcoin price.

Are you going somewhere with these arguments?  What is the point?

[mestar]

Dude electricity is irrelevant.

Dude, electricity is relevant.   It's the limiting factor once you have mining hardware in your hands.

[NewLiberty]

It is completely like gold but better.

Gold does not have a price point at which all the electrical power generated in the world is used by gold.  Bitcoin has such a price point.

Gold and bitcoin have almost opposite (and so have very complementary features)
Bitcoin is best used over the internet, gold is best used in person.
Virtual vs tangible, new vs eternal, hi tech vs elementary...

Precious metal (coin) are needed to make the currency complete, which is the impetus for the Bitcoin Specie project.

[mestar]

Bitcoin would never get to such a price point (and the electrical power would get more expensive).

Exactly.

This, however, makes some statements about Bitcoin look idiotic.  In a link in this thread a couple of days ago, a guy on TV said

"Bitcoin price could go to million dollars"

Well, it could, as long as you are prepared to have up to 3 billion USD daily usage of electrical power to run such a network.

[600watt]

Dude electricity is irrelevant.

Dude, electricity is relevant.   It's the limiting factor once you have mining hardware in your hands.

new mining hardware puts out lot´s of coins, tons of dollars and about 1% cost for electricity. completely irrelevant. i know a miner who made 300 000 400 000 dollars (shit the price rises faster then i can type) with his miners. he sold them after 6 weeks. electricity cost ?  

[BRADLEYPLOOF]

Bitcoin would never get to such a price point (and the electrical power would get more expensive).

Exactly.

This, however, makes some statements about Bitcoin look idiotic.  In a link in this thread a couple of days ago, a guy on TV said

"Bitcoin price could go to million dollars"

Well, it could, as long as you are prepared to have up to 3 billion USD daily usage of electrical power to run such a network.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around where these daily electrical power usage numbers are coming from...are you implying that 100,000,000 more people will start mining and the price of electricity will quadruple?

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Bitcoin would never get to such a price point (and the electrical power would get more expensive).

Exactly.

This, however, makes some statements about Bitcoin look idiotic.  In a link in this thread a couple of days ago, a guy on TV said

"Bitcoin price could go to million dollars"

Well, it could, as long as you are prepared to have up to 3 billion USD daily usage of electrical power to run such a network.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around where these daily electrical power usage numbers are coming from...are you implying that 100,000,000 more people will start mining and the price of electricity will quadruple?

I haven't done the numbers, but in an efficient market, the profit margin on bitcoin mining should be low.  Thus mining costs (purchase of equipment + electricity (+ other overhead ?)) should be only slightly below the profit (amount of bitcoins mined * bitcoin price).

[mestar]

Are you going somewhere with these arguments?  What is the point?

I guess the point is that the price of 600 is simply unsustainable for Bitcoin, and not a lot of people understand this.

Or, 600 is sustainable as long as you have 2 million dollars daily of new investments in Bitcoin.

[BRADLEYPLOOF]

Bitcoin would never get to such a price point (and the electrical power would get more expensive).

Exactly.

This, however, makes some statements about Bitcoin look idiotic.  In a link in this thread a couple of days ago, a guy on TV said

"Bitcoin price could go to million dollars"

Well, it could, as long as you are prepared to have up to 3 billion USD daily usage of electrical power to run such a network.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around where these daily electrical power usage numbers are coming from...are you implying that 100,000,000 more people will start mining and the price of electricity will quadruple?

I haven't done the numbers, but in an efficient market, the profit margin on bitcoin mining should be low.  Thus mining costs (purchase of equipment + electricity) should be only slightly below the profit (amount of bitcoins mined * bitcoin price).

Ah, well...bitcoin mining is far from efficient at current stupid high difficulty levels...I only do it for fun, but the dust I mine is worth more and more every day...just wish I had started sooner, or knew about bitcoin before March...