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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 62

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26403229 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
pietje
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February 16, 2014, 02:06:03 PM
 #89821

That was the last bearish attempt which ofc failed
ShroomsKit
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February 16, 2014, 02:07:05 PM
 #89822

Is it me or did something change on Gox? I see all these sell walls now. Wasn't it a flat line until now?

I so hope they pay out what's owed and then close that mess.
ShroomsKit
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February 16, 2014, 02:07:55 PM
 #89823

Windy is a millionaire...he's stated it here before.

I am Bill Gates.

Well, Bill...will you sort out your fucking OSes...I gave up after XP and my wife's version of Win8 is so frustrating, the updates take forever.

BTW love all your work for charidee

Windows 7 is pretty much perfect imo.
N12
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February 16, 2014, 02:09:12 PM
 #89824

Is it me or did something change on Gox? I see all these sell walls now. Wasn't it a flat line until now?

I so hope they pay out what's owed and then close that mess.
Yes. Remember that a fool bought 4.4k at market up to 540. So, what you see from there is all fresh since then.

Also

KeyserSoze
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February 16, 2014, 02:10:33 PM
 #89825

These prices are insane. If it enables withdrawles, than what?

Since you and several others continually butcher this, let's give this a shot...
withdraw: verb. Use: "I wish I could withdraw from Gox."
withdrawal: noun. Use: "I wish Gox would enable withdrawals."

Next week we'll work on "cow." The cow goes mooooooo.
mmitech
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February 16, 2014, 02:11:12 PM
 #89826

Windy is a millionaire...he's stated it here before.

I am Bill Gates.

Well, Bill...will you sort out your fucking OSes...I gave up after XP and my wife's version of Win8 is so frustrating, the updates take forever.

BTW love all your work for charidee

Windows 7 is pretty much perfect imo.

Window 8.1 is really great, performance kills Windows 7, the change in GUI sucks because most users are used to the GUI Microsoft had over decades, I got use to it and I like it, I cant switch back to Win7, it is either Win8 or Ubuntu for me now.
T.Stuart
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February 16, 2014, 02:12:13 PM
 #89827

These prices are insane. If it enables withdrawles, than what?

Since you and several others continually butcher this, let's give this a shot...
withdraw: verb. Use: "I wish I could withdraw from Gox."
withdrawal: noun. Use: "I wish Gox would enable withdrawals."

Next week we'll work on "cow." The cow goes mooooooo.

or in certain situations "withdrools..."

mmitech
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February 16, 2014, 02:12:38 PM
 #89828

These prices are insane. If it enables withdrawles, than what?

Since you and several others continually butcher this, let's give this a shot...
withdraw: verb. Use: "I wish I could withdraw from Gox."
withdrawal: noun. Use: "I wish Gox would enable withdrawals."

Next week we'll work on "cow." The cow goes mooooooo.

in which language the cow goes mooooo ? English ? hahahahaah
ChrisML
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February 16, 2014, 02:14:17 PM
 #89829

Seems the storm is steady now for MTgox. Small walls, price stabalizing slowely.

Fuck me. A low of 220 is just insane. Never again.
el_rlee
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February 16, 2014, 02:14:50 PM
 #89830


sorry where does it say on that page that they have swithced to btc-e

Have a look into what instruments they are offering
T.Stuart
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February 16, 2014, 02:17:46 PM
 #89831

To think, a few weeks ago China was the big bad wolf.

China's got nothing on Gox! "We" (very broadly speaking of course) really f***ed ourselves over, no help from China needed at all!
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February 16, 2014, 02:18:28 PM
 #89832

These prices are insane. If it enables withdrawles, than what?

Since you and several others continually butcher this, let's give this a shot...
withdraw: verb. Use: "I wish I could withdraw from Gox."
withdrawal: noun. Use: "I wish Gox would enable withdrawals."

Next week we'll work on "cow." The cow goes mooooooo.

in which language the cow goes mooooo ? English ? hahahahaah

The varying onomatopoeia for animal noises across cultures is very interesting - for example while dogs in English go 'woof', in Korean (IRC) they go 'bow wow'.  The noise for pigs varies quite dramatically too.
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February 16, 2014, 02:19:27 PM
 #89833

derpinheimer
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February 16, 2014, 02:21:11 PM
 #89834

Wow Gox! Thats incredible. $220?!!?  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked


!!!!!!!
Amechan
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February 16, 2014, 02:22:30 PM
 #89835

These prices are insane. If it enables withdrawles, than what?

Since you and several others continually butcher this, let's give this a shot...
withdraw: verb. Use: "I wish I could withdraw from Gox."
withdrawal: noun. Use: "I wish Gox would enable withdrawals."

Next week we'll work on "cow." The cow goes mooooooo.

in which language the cow goes mooooo ? English ? hahahahaah

The varying onomatopoeia for animal noises across cultures is very interesting - for example while dogs in English go 'woof', in Korean (IRC) go 'bow wow'.  The noise for pigs varies quite dramatically too.

In Japanese dogs say "WAN" cats say "nya" cows say "mow" tigers say "gao" and elephants say "powan".
fotosonics
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February 16, 2014, 02:22:55 PM
 #89836


Next week we'll work on "cow." The cow goes mooooooo.

in which language the cow goes mooooo ? English ? hahahahaah

The varying onomatopoeia for animal noises across cultures is very interesting - for example while dogs in English go 'woof', in Korean (IRC) they go 'bow wow'.  The noise for pigs varies quite dramatically too.
[/quote]

Great. I come here for some insight and the discussion is on animal noises.
KeyserSoze
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February 16, 2014, 02:23:16 PM
 #89837

i just cannot understand the logic for selling at these prices - it makes no sense

I haven't heard that fiat withdrawals have stopped for anyone outside the U.S. So if someone in the vast world believes Gox will not resume BTC withdrawals then perhaps he is selling his BTC for any amount he can to get out. It's panic at the disco.

I wouldn't rule out something shady either, however, though it'd be pretty disappointing. While over the years it has been oddly run, it has been one of the few relatively safe havens in the Bitcoin realm.
JorgeStolfi
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February 16, 2014, 02:24:06 PM
 #89838

there is a time to declare an attempt dead

I NEVER declared bitcoin "dead", not even when may people were screaming so. (Talking of strawmen...  Wink

I still wish that it will succed. I am skeptical that it will. (Desires should not be confused with forecasts.) But I believe that it will stay alive for years (unless a really serious bug is found, or the US decides to ban it -- both very unlikely in my view).

According to that strict interpretation of probabilities and their application to real life events, *all* investments are equally good or bad, and there is no way to make an informed decision.

Not at all.  While probablilities are ultimately subjective, in many cases most people will assign roughly similar probabilities.  And when people share what they know about something, their probability estimates usually converge.

Everybody will agree that the chance of snake eyes at dice is 1/36, for example.  While diferent people will assign different probabilities to "a whale will fall from the sky into the Grand Canyon",  most will pick a very small number.

For a more complicated situation, closer to the issue, consider investing on oil industry stock.  Seasoned investors know a lot about the science, technology, economics, and companies in the field.  They have data on how often such and such kind of field yielded so much oil, and so on.  Thus the probabilities they assign to future events are often shared by other investors, and if they make money in a string of investments, that is empirical evidence that their algorithms are good.  They should all assign low probability to there being oil under Campinas, and hence would say, with authority, that a company that proposes to dig there is a bad investment.

For bitcoin, however, there is no history of similar projects that one could point to in order to change other people's assumed probabilities.  It is an "internet based project", sure; but that class is so vast and varied that it would be foolish to use its frequency of success as probability of bitcoin's success.

Bitcoin has many unique key features, such as the need for cooperation of thousand volunteers players to maintain the blockchain up-to-date under a very tight protocol, in exchange for a reward whose value depends on a speculative market.

Most successful internet innovations - -Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon,  etc. -- are not at all like that. Wikipedia depends on a network of volunteers too, but it has cetralized control and processing, has only loose protocols about format, no timing requirements, no material reward, etc.  GNU/Linux is almost decentralized but has even less requirements.

Tor and BitTorrent may be more similar, but again the motivations are different and they are intended for a niche "market" with little money involved.

So, without a string of "similar" projects to serve as a guide, what information could people use to pick their probabilities of Bitcoin succeding in various ways?  My probabilities are largely based on my understanding of the world, how I expect that governments, banks and people will react to it, etc. I can share some of that information and perhaps change other people's perceptions a little; but there is much in my head that I could not convey in a lifetime,  and much that is subconscious too.

Simply *assume* for a moment that (through intuition, or TA) an investor has a way to roughly predict the price function of USD/BTC. My question was: which USD/BTC price function would qualify as a good investment of that (perhaps hypothetically knowledgeable) investor.

Basically, a good investment is one that has expected return per year comparable to the best predictable returns out there, over the time scale one is willing to wait and one's probabilities hold.  That is usually 5% to 10% per year.  So if you are 90% certain that the price will go up by 10% over the next year, and 99% certain that it will not crash below 50%, the expected return will be about 8% at least, so it would be a good investment -- in your view. 

But use slightly more pessimistic probabilities, and the expected return will be much lower, easily negative.

Obviously, if price kept on falling now, never to reach 1000 USD again, everyone who invested in the last 3 months could conclude it was a bad investment. If however price recovers, and keeps on rising, there is really no meaningful way to declare it a "bad investment" until at some point it doesn't recover anymore.

That is my point, you cannot tell whether one investment was good or bad investment (perhaps we should say, "wise or dumb"?) from its outcome.  If someone makes a series of similar investments, and makes money on the average, then you can say that his way of assigning probabilities and choosing investments must have some merit.

So, why do I say that bitcoin is a terrible investment in absolute terms, not just "for me"?  Because if we were to tell to an unbiased and non-naive investor all the negative arguments, and omitted all the positive arguments that are no longer true, I am sure he would assign such probabilities to the possible future prices that his expected return will be very negative.

Telling someone only that "investing in bitcoin has a large expected return" is misleading, very close to scamming.  Ditto for telling him only the positive arguments without the negative ones (like all salesmen and advertisers do) .  At the very least, you should start by showing the potential investor this chart, and then try to explain why you think that it is not important.
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February 16, 2014, 02:25:58 PM
 #89839


sorry where does it say on that page that they have swithced to btc-e

Have a look into what instruments they are offering

plus500.co.uk is still quoting MtGox, but since they re-opended after their weekly downtime (sun 12-2pm) trading was only possible for a few minutes. Price is ticking, but trading disabled. Perhaps they are having discussions about a switch ... would be wise.
Stamp would be a much better choice than BTC-e ... but I guess they much be in favour of wild cards like that spike down to $102
Watch this space.
Certainly seems like the safest way to play the Gox price if you want to. No way I would wire money to Gox, but I would take Plus500 CP risk for a short term punt ...


Oh yeh, cows in the UK definitely go mooooo ... except the mad ones, which go like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gi5IEjeH6E
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February 16, 2014, 02:27:47 PM
 #89840



Nice graphic , each exchange live in his own world since Gox problem , with different prices , but similar graphics!
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