Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[kurious]

I started buying in May 2014. I’ve never declared any tax at all. Correct me if I’m wrong but you only pay capital gains tax when you start to sell?

Only when you sell for fiat. If you convert to another digital asset you don't pay capital gains. At least not yet.

Actually HMRC considers any transaction that involves a gain, even if it is crypto-to-crypto is taxable, not just conversion to fiat.  So if you have some BTC from way back and convert some into (say) LTC, there is a gain that is taxable if what you paid originally is converted now into something that is more valuable in the transaction.

There is good software to help with this.  

Where LFC is OK, is that if you are just a hodler and have never traded you are ok, as you have never realised the gains; so no CGT is due.  If you do trade into anything else (buy Lambo with BTC, buy some alts etc) it's a capital gain if the value realised is worth more than you originally paid.

Another reason to HODL, for the UK-based OGs...

https://cointracking.info/

Accept BTCitcoin payment, but it has free version up to 200 transactions.

CoinTracking - Profit/Loss Portfolio and Tax Reporting for Digital Currencies

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220238

Actually I did try this one last year and I found it was OK on US, not so on UK.

This one is more expensive - but it did my tax return last year and was worth every cent:

IMHO - this one is superb:  https://www.cointracker.io

[JayJuanGee]

I am more interested in the price zone between $15k and $17.5k.   Let's see how that zone does?  We need an observational study of that zone.

Hate to (partially) disagree, but I think that zone wont last long on the first (sorry, actually second) visit.  As I said before, the resistance at 14k is so strong that price will either stay below for months, or break out and make a quick run for the ATH.

However, it is after the 20k is challenged that any support in the 14k to 20k zone could be formed.

I do admit that the technicals can be outweighed by events, especially in times of economic turmoil, but they will always have their effect. It's rather like statistics, there can always be another adjustment for factors which were not apparent in the original data.

I will take your asserted prognosis with a decently-sized grain of salt.

Sure, I am far from certain whether BTC is ready to break above $14k, yet, but there are decent chances that we could break into such $15k to $17.5k price arena and then drop back down.

I surely am not asserting that there are not going to be various resistance points along the way towards breaking above ATHs again or even that it might not take a good number of efforts to get above certain price points while experiencing up to to 30% to 50% corrections along the way, too.  All of those are within the range of normal price moves with such a nascent asset class like bitcoin - and part of the reason that a lot of your more seemingly bearish scenarios that seem to decently heavily rely upon technicalities that are likely modeled on more mature market behaviors of centralized industries that even if they have exponential growth, they are still not to the same paradigm shifting price pressures that BTC is likely experiencing that provide it with much more upwards price fuel than your formulas and technicals give credit....

In other words, honey badger might well be saying fuck you to those technicals on a number of future occasions, just like she has done in a decent number of past times.  We will see... we will see.  Neither my financials nor my psychology rely upon such Upwards BTC price movement, and I am certainly prepared for either direction, including if bitcoin were to fall into a more boring flat scenario which probably technicals like yours would give a much higher probability to such scenarios than I believe is really in the likely cards for our baby BTC.

By the way, a little factual correction, when we break into the $15k to $17.5k zone, this will be our third time, to the extent that I would tentatively consider the six weeks around the $19,666 ATH to have been two breaks above $14k based on a correction that brought BTC down to $11k-ish after it had already reached $19,666 and then made it back up to $17.2k before finally succumbing to the relatively long and drawn out correction that led to our December 2018 low of $3,122 - which I would concede to have had been a bear market - maybe a mini-bear market as it is turning out to be, but surely we were there for a bit of time before reversing back into our current bull market.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Also the very wealthy status is very different from people to people, some see X-amount as pretty wealthy others need ten times more ... I don't know for other people, but for myself being wealthy means not stopping with working, but being able to work/preform to do what you wanna do, for example if i'm a big dog lover and i'm able to buy a big piece of land in a country that I wish to live in and live there with taking care of those animals without the need to worry about any financial stuff thats being wealthy, as for elwar being busy with seasteading without to worry thats being wealthy, if I would like to live as a perma vacation guy and living on the beach with a cocktail bar renting out jetski's or whatever .... or 1000 of different thing as long there are no financial struggles thats being wealthy imo

Another category is being filthy rich, in here you are wealthy and able to just keep buying whatever gadget you want without any financial struggle, fly where ever you like, invest in every people you like, sleep at the only most expensive places etc

But not everyone is seeking for the same wealth/happiness as others .... People are very different in there seeking for wealth, as I know many almost everyone dreaming of the filthy rich status, but when they reached it then it will not always satisfy there true needs and there life become pointless very easy....

People always will need some kind of purpose cause being filthy reach and the life of only party will get boring AF to.... especially when a 20-30 rich AF dude blows his life away partying to then become 50-60-70 years old and look back to his pointless life with probably non female to truly love him.... Many die old and alone bitter and without any true happiness, so keep having goals in life not only the goal of reaching money wealth but do something with the gained wealth that will satisfy your life on daily base

As far as the level of rich that is needed to be able to live passively on your wealth, that is a matter of living within your means.  You can do that with $1,000 per month and some people might need $3k, $6k, $10k or more in order to feel that they have either a sufficient income or a sufficient cushion.  So any of those income amounts could allow NOT having to work depending on what part of the world you live and what kind of expenses that you have on a regular basis including what kinds of luxuries that you want to enjoy.  So, yeah, anytime that you can maintain yourself on passive income that means that you do not have to work, and any work that you do would be by choice.

Regarding filthy rich, we already batted around a lot of differing conceptions about the difference between regular rich and filthy rich, so I am not sure whether it would be fruitful to do that again, but there could be some societal expectations involved I suppose in that when you would join a kind of minority club status regarding the exceedingly high level of your rich.. maybe that would cross into filthy status?

Regarding fulfilling life that seems to be more of a psychological thing than a money thing.... Most people might agree that money does not necessarily buy happiness, but probably it takes a lot of the burdens away that could allow for more happiness, and perhaps our hookers, lambos and blow would not quite achieve happiness by themselves....   Some of us will likely need to be guinea pigs in a kind of experiment to have to test some of those theories to be able to really get some better ideas about whether we become more happy with those things or we feel unfulfilled.

[El duderino_]

Bitcoin at $1: it'll never go to $10.

Bitcoin at $10: it'll never go to $100.

Bitcoin at $100: it'll never go to $1000.

Bitcoin at $1000: it'll never go to $10,000.

Bitcoin at $10,000: it'll never go to $100,000.

Never say never.

https://twitter.com/onemanatatime/status/1157636997206253568?s=21

Always one of best reminders

[JayJuanGee]

600k+ $BTC by Sept 2021 if we copy the 2015-2017 price action 😎🚀

#Bitcoin2019 #bitcoin


https://twitter.com/Crypto_Tone1/status/1158361271022030848?s=20

When people getting overly Bullish and talking my language

Lol fuck off mic!
That is seriously overly bullish although just imagine  

Edit - Whoever pulled the flush again - You are dead to me 

That is less bullish than McAfee.  Remember McAfee prediction 1:  BTC to $500k by end of 2020.   McAfee prediction 2:  BTC to $1 million by end of 2020.

[mindrust]

600k+ $BTC by Sept 2021 if we copy the 2015-2017 price action 😎🚀

#Bitcoin2019 #bitcoin


https://twitter.com/Crypto_Tone1/status/1158361271022030848?s=20

When people getting overly Bullish and talking my language

Lol fuck off mic!
That is seriously overly bullish although just imagine  

Edit - Whoever pulled the flush again - You are dead to me  

That is less bullish than McAfee.  Remember McAfee prediction 1:  BTC to $500k by end of 2020.   McAfee prediction 2:  BTC to $1 million by end of 2020.

Now take a long breath so your brain cells can work in full capacity and think:

What if McAfee was right?

What If any price between $50k and 100k isn't final before the bear run?

What if it doesn't stop at $100k and go way beyond?

And what if you unload everything between those 2 numbers. ($50-100k)

Would you feel like shit?

If yes > Hodl, (at least some)
If no > Sell and don't look back.

***I am (and will be) keeping at least 1 full piece, no matter what happens.***

[JayJuanGee]

For few minutes (an hour ago I think) I witnessed $13,000

However now it's $11,800

Can not complain. $15K soon?

Focus.... .Focus....

Bitstamp...

High on Bitstamp a few hours ago was $12,325...   That is NOT $13k... cannot even be rounded to $13k...

Edited:

For few minutes (an hour ago I think) I witnessed $13,000

However now it's $11,800

Can not complain. $15K soon?

Might have been something you ate? I'm looking at $12.325 as the daily high.

Perhaps it was some strange exchange? We use Bitstamp BTC/USD here. Anything else and the natives get restless...

Toscha said everything.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Look up elliot wave principle, look up all the major FTSE or dow jones companies lifetime graphs.

While you're at it look at the oh so hyped LTC halving.  look at the effect it had on the price. 

You want to teach us something related to bitcoin?  Will it be helpful to our profits?  What's your own profit's track record?  Did you get back in with you .25 BTC purchase?  since you were only able to buy back .25BTC from the .5BTC that you sold at $6k, right?

[mindrust]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-04/when-teslas-crash-they-come-here-auction

If you ever crash your tesla, forget about repairing, forget about selling it to someone else. It is done. Dead.

Another reason to avoid that thing.


https://twitter.com/KeefWivanef1

[JayJuanGee]

600k+ $BTC by Sept 2021 if we copy the 2015-2017 price action 😎🚀

#Bitcoin2019 #bitcoin


https://twitter.com/Crypto_Tone1/status/1158361271022030848?s=20

When people getting overly Bullish and talking my language

Lol fuck off mic!
That is seriously overly bullish although just imagine  

Edit - Whoever pulled the flush again - You are dead to me  

That is less bullish than McAfee.  Remember McAfee prediction 1:  BTC to $500k by end of 2020.   McAfee prediction 2:  BTC to $1 million by end of 2020.

Now take a long breath so your brain cells can work in full capacity and think:

What if McAfee was right?

What If any price between $50k and 100k isn't final before the bear run?

What if it doesn't stop at $100k and go way beyond?

And what if you unload everything between those 2 numbers. ($50-100k)

Would you feel like shit?

If yes > Hodl, (at least some)
If no > Sell and don't look back.

***I am (and will be) keeping at least 1 full piece, no matter what happens.***

Yeah... I think that many of us here have learned some lessons along the way in terms of still being able to get pretty damned rich, but not having to sell all of your stash.

I know a lot of people do seem to get into a kind of second guessing of their decision to NOT have sold after the price corrects in the 50% to 85% arena. 

It is possible to sell decently high portions of your stash on the way up without even selling greater than 50% and still be rich as fuck from having had invested into bitcoin... but yeah, we don't really know if we are going to have repetitions of previous 10x or more price increases, so there is that, too.

[gentlemand]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-04/when-teslas-crash-they-come-here-auction

If you ever crash your tesla, forget about repairing, forget about selling it to someone else. It is done. Dead.

Another reason to avoid that thing.

I guess so many people lease cars now that they don't care about that stuff. I dunno where that leaves the weirdos who actually favour owning things. I do know electric car insurance is significantly higher and tales like that must be why.

I wouldn't be too devastated if Amazon pulled that Taylor Swift album I touch myself to I was leasing from them. It's rather different if Tesla choose to brick me from 5000 miles away.

BMW are now charging a subscription to be able to use Apple Carplay. It's a slippery slope that's gathering pace.

Luckily I am fully stocked up with enough of these to last a lifetime.



I may sell some to favoured members from this thread with a full node installed.

The node will take a modest fee of 45% per transaction you send from the luxury of your walnut and leather interior.

[jbreher]

I started buying in May 2014. I’ve never declared any tax at all. Correct me if I’m wrong but you only pay capital gains tax when you start to sell?

Only when you sell for fiat. If you convert to another digital asset you don't pay capital gains. At least not yet.

US? Absolutely false. Early years, one could make the argument that crypto-crypto trades were 'like kind exchanges' under 1031. In TY 2018, the law was changed in order to specifically outlaw like kind exchanges for anything other than real property (e.g., real estate).

Note: IANAL, and this is not tax advice. Evidently, neither is bkbirge.

[HairyMaclairy]

Shitty mobile phone chart
https://i.imgur.com/j9fN0EE.jpg

What can you say on that chart or current situation of BTC? Love to hear yours.
Since in my lower time frames, I'm bullish.

We momentarily broke out of the wedge but now we are back inside it.

[HairyMaclairy]

I started buying in May 2014. I’ve never declared any tax at all. Correct me if I’m wrong but you only pay capital gains tax when you start to sell?

Only when you sell for fiat. If you convert to another digital asset you don't pay capital gains. At least not yet.

Not familiar with HMRC guidance on this point but this is highly unlikely.  All other major economies have CGT levied on any sale, including sale for other digital assets.  

Edit:  caught up now and see the issue has been sorted

[bkbirge]

Note: IANAL, and this is not tax advice. Evidently, neither is bkbirge.

gentlemand beat you all to the punch, I am properly chastised by my WO elders. Don't take anything I say, ever, as tax advice, lol. 

[Biro Bob]

@gentlemand How much to lease one of your fine brown allegros?

[HairyMaclairy]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-04/when-teslas-crash-they-come-here-auction

If you ever crash your tesla, forget about repairing, forget about selling it to someone else. It is done. Dead.

Another reason to avoid that thing.

I guess so many people lease cars now that they don't care about that stuff. I dunno where that leaves the weirdos who actually favour owning things. I do know electric car insurance is significantly higher and tales like that must be why.

I wouldn't be too devastated if Amazon pulled that Taylor Swift album I touch myself to I was leasing from them. It's rather different if Tesla choose to brick me from 5000 miles away.

BMW are now charging a subscription to be able to use Apple Carplay. It's a slippery slope that's gathering pace.

Luckily I am fully stocked up with enough of these to last a lifetime.



I may sell some to favoured members from this thread with a full node installed.

The node will take a modest fee of 45% per transaction you send from the luxury of your walnut and leather interior.

• Zerohedge FUD is best FUD
• Anyone treating autopilot as an autonomous driving system is an idiot
• Don’t crash your car, you aren’t 17 anymore
• Anyone who doesn’t have full insurance is an idiot
• Morris Marina?

[yefi]

Correct me if I’m wrong but you only pay capital gains tax when you start to sell?

Take note that any interest you've earned from lending or staking is liable to Income Tax. As others have mentioned, any crypto-crypto trade is treated as a disposal which falls typically under CGT in the UK.

[Hueristic]

OK, Looks good since I've been online, we were struggle 5 digits last time I was online.

I will need to make a small sell later today so what do you guys think?

Is the daily spike over or should I place a sell @ like 12.3k?

[gentlemand]

@gentlemand How much to lease one of your fine brown allegros?

Other than the 45% cut for using Bitcoin via the in-Austin node there will be no monetary cost. There will be a human cost, one so high I'm not really comfortable discussing it here. We'll fall off that bridge when we come to it.

• Morris Marina?

No, sir. That would be unspeakably downmarket.

Austin Allegro Vanden Plas.