Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JorgeStolfi]

Good luck proving he got the coins or committed a crime regarding a "virtual" currency that isnt protected by any law worldwide... After all, isnt Bitcoin all about protecting anonymity anyway?

Well, the FBI apparently thinks it can prove such things in the Silk Road cases.

And I believe courts have taken seriously thefts or scams involving intangibles like videogame points and weapons.   As long as there is a legally valid and binding contract, and the customer can prove that the company did not honor it, the court may work, methinks.

[JayJuanGee]

This in just now

http://qz.com/182637/meet-the-4-25-billion-asset-manager-that-took-a-bath-on-bitcoin/

Fortress Financial Group, a publicly-traded asset manager with a market value of $4.26 billion, reported its 2013 results yesterday—and its biggest investment loss was bitcoin.

in my opinion it is a good thing that big money is getting in. so thumbs up for fortress. but..

but...

to effectivly create your biggest loss of all assets in bitcoin during 2013 is an outstanding example of bad timing.

Wow, to screw up like that they would have bought in after November 15 (say at the peak November 30)  and sold at the bottom December 15)  and dropped around $7 bar into the game and be totally out before Q4 ends.  

Assume they put in the minimum nesesary for the loss they account for about 20% of all volume invested in Bitcoin.

Not the behavior of a competent investment firm.

Looks like they bought in and have hodl since..... losses are listed as "unrealised" so they haven't sold the BTC yet

so they put at least $7,000,000 in at the top. wow, not sure ill invests with these guys.

Probably investment groups should follow the same kind of protection that individuals should follow... especially after a run up of an asset class... and that is to spread out their investment and to engage in a form of dollar cost averaging... ... let's say that they wanted to get into bitcoin, and they were in a hurry to get some in before the end of the year... .. Accordingly, they could have started at the end of November.. at the peak.. and then on a weekly basis invested 1.5 million... or something like that... they may NOT be in too bad of a position if they had averaged it out a little bit... especially for the potential long or medium term that we are pretty certain to be above $1,200 per BTC by the end of 2014...   even if we have some ups and downs in the middle... ...

In other words, I am of the belief that a competent investment firm is going to explore a little bit rather than going in BALLS to the WALLS...

[JayJuanGee]

Do you have any proof of sending 50k to mtgox? This is not speculation is throwing money off the window. You might win, but still it's stupid to do.

Ninja with balls of STEEL I salute you !!!

awtch

There is NOT even a date on that page... but I suppose that there will be a correlation with other records... and then within GOX there are a lot of records of various transactions and trandes that may have taken place between the date of the deposit and the date of the closing of the exchange.  HOWEVER, I am confident that ONLY a small portion of GOX customers went through the effort to save those various pages of electronic data (even though there were several weeks in which that saving of pages could have been done (between the time of the discontinuance of withdrawals until the time of the shutting off  of the website)..  

Gox went down with his 1200 BTC. He was not seen here since he said how much he lost there. Serious shit.

Some guy reported 4200 BTC Gox loss. Shit.

Actually, even though some people take risks in their investments and their hopes that businesses and persons are acting with  a certain level of integrity, sometimes the risks are kind of anticipated....... ... and like everyone says, the best time to invest is when others are running away from that investment....... .... ...

YES>>> >> the blood of a lot of people will boil... when they read the level of admissions of loss or theft that occurred through GOX....... it is really bullshit and it still does NOT add up... that anything other than fraud was going on at some level..... which actors are responsible??? probably a few people besides Mark...   .. even though the buck stopped with Mark.

[JorgeStolfi]

within GOX there are a lot of records of various transactions and trandes that may have taken place between the date of the deposit and the date of the closing of the exchange.  HOWEVER, I am confident that ONLY a small portion of GOX customers went through the effort to save those various pages of electronic data (even though there were several weeks in which that saving of pages could have been done (between the time of the discontinuance of withdrawals until the time of the shutting off  of the website)..  

I read here a few days ago that some US court ordered MtGOX to preserve certain of its records.  I suppose it is related to the Greene lawsuit.

[hdbuck]

Good luck proving he got the coins or committed a crime regarding a "virtual" currency that isnt protected by any law worldwide... After all, isnt Bitcoin all about protecting anonymity anyway?

Well, the FBI apparently thinks it can prove such things in the Silk Road cases.

And I believe courts have taken seriously thefts or scams involving intangibles like videogame points and weapons.   As long as there is a legally valid and binding contract, and the customer can prove that the company did not honor it, the court may work, methinks.

Dread Pirate Robert has been accused of money laundering as far as i can recall and certainly not of stealing BTCs. On the other hand DPR is accusing FBI to have "seized" (meaning "robbed") his personal coins... good luck with that. imho there is not a single case (yet?) where people or companies were condemned for loosing or robbing other people's bitcoins. But i'd be glad to be proved wrong. If any recourse possible, it would be exclusively regarding fiat i guess.

[JorgeStolfi]

Dread Pirate Robert has been accused of money laundering as far as i can recall and certainly not of stealing BTCs.

My point was that the FBI apparently thinks that they can prove that he (and Shrem) did their alleged crimes by moving these and those BTCs this and that way.

[aminorex]

I think it is ludicrous to argue with that nym.  No one could be so stupid/ignorant as to honestly hold such positions, and still manage to post here.  Much much better to ignore.

[billyjoeallen]

A lot of speculators were expecting the price to go up immediately. When they realize that it won't, they will give up and sell...and that's when it will go up. Others were expecting price to tank today. The longer it holds up, the more their orders inch up closer to the current spot price. We're going down, but not nearly long enough or far enough for everyone to get on board before the next ramp.

Put your limit orders in and go do something else for a while.

[virtualfaqs]

Do you have any proof of sending 50k to mtgox? This is not speculation is throwing money off the window. You might win, but still it's stupid to do.

***Image deleted***

Ninja with balls of STEEL I salute you !!!

awtch

There is NOT even a date on that page... but I suppose that there will be a correlation with other records... and then within GOX there are a lot of records of various transactions and trandes that may have taken place between the date of the deposit and the date of the closing of the exchange.  HOWEVER, I am confident that ONLY a small portion of GOX customers went through the effort to save those various pages of electronic data (even though there were several weeks in which that saving of pages could have been done (between the time of the discontinuance of withdrawals until the time of the shutting off  of the website)..  

Gox went down with his 1200 BTC. He was not seen here since he said how much he lost there. Serious shit.

Some guy reported 4200 BTC Gox loss. Shit.

Actually, even though some people take risks in their investments and their hopes that businesses and persons are acting with  a certain level of integrity, sometimes the risks are kind of anticipated....... ... and like everyone says, the best time to invest is when others are running away from that investment....... .... ...

YES>>> >> the blood of a lot of people will boil... when they read the level of admissions of loss or theft that occurred through GOX....... it is really bullshit and it still does NOT add up... that anything other than fraud was going on at some level..... which actors are responsible??? probably a few people besides Mark...   .. even though the buck stopped with Mark.

Bitcoin Builder claims losses of 8000 BTC + $400K USD.

[uhoh]

Do you have any proof of sending 50k to mtgox? This is not speculation is throwing money off the window. You might win, but still it's stupid to do.

***Image deleted***

Ninja with balls of STEEL I salute you !!!

awtch

There is NOT even a date on that page... but I suppose that there will be a correlation with other records... and then within GOX there are a lot of records of various transactions and trandes that may have taken place between the date of the deposit and the date of the closing of the exchange.  HOWEVER, I am confident that ONLY a small portion of GOX customers went through the effort to save those various pages of electronic data (even though there were several weeks in which that saving of pages could have been done (between the time of the discontinuance of withdrawals until the time of the shutting off  of the website)..  

Gox went down with his 1200 BTC. He was not seen here since he said how much he lost there. Serious shit.

Some guy reported 4200 BTC Gox loss. Shit.

Actually, even though some people take risks in their investments and their hopes that businesses and persons are acting with  a certain level of integrity, sometimes the risks are kind of anticipated....... ... and like everyone says, the best time to invest is when others are running away from that investment....... .... ...

YES>>> >> the blood of a lot of people will boil... when they read the level of admissions of loss or theft that occurred through GOX....... it is really bullshit and it still does NOT add up... that anything other than fraud was going on at some level..... which actors are responsible??? probably a few people besides Mark...   .. even though the buck stopped with Mark.

Bitcoin Builder claims losses of 8000 BTC + $400K USD.

He took fees both sides of the trade on BitcoinBuilder.... He made plenty of RealBTC(tm)

[bitcodo]

What a mess. The mighty Mt.Gox is dead. Institutional investors are here, but declaring their biggest investment loss was Bitcoin. Dogs, Cats, Maxs and other animals are feeding themselfs with bitcoin carrion.
But hey, here comes national crypto currencies; For Iceland Auroracoin and for Lakota Nation we have MazaCoin.
Lets drink a cup of Mint Tea and everything will look better. Nxt time invest in something Lite and fly like Feather, or Name me your Master.  

Do we have Fuck You All Coin?

[mmitech]

constant dumping at stamp... more than 1k dumped the last 30 min

[dreamspark]

Stolen coins have hit the market 

[QuestionAuthority]

constant dumping at stamp... more than 1k dumped the last 30 min

Karpeles getting rid of his coins so soon?

[MoreFun]

Can't believe that it takes bitstamp 30 seconds to put order out of queue to order book.

[mmitech]

constant dumping at stamp... more than 1k dumped the last 30 min

Karpeles getting rid of his coins so soon?

well the roumers about stolen coins being dumped is just not legit, you cant dump stolen coins in stamp, maybe this could be possible on BTC-e but sure not Bitstamp, they have this AML strict policy... but anyway the 4h MACD just crossed as predicted, lets see how low will this take us.

[mmitech]

Can't believe that it takes bitstamp 30 seconds to put order out of queue to order book.

that happens on heavy traffic

[adsdas]

Bitcoin is dead for now!! sell!! waooow
weekend dip!!! wooo

[F-bernanke]

Can't believe that it takes bitstamp 30 seconds to put order out of queue to order book.

Yes, this pisses me off! I've raised this question 2 times in their tread, but they ignore it.

[cbutters]

Institutional investors are here, but declaring their biggest investment loss was Bitcoin.

Just to clarify a bit: The investor wasn't declaring it to put out bad press, they just happened to put it on their balance sheet because that is what it is... we all know that bitcoin is lower now than it was at the end of 2013. It wasn't a jab at bitcoin, it was just proper financial reporting that happened to get picked up by the press.