Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Miz4r]

too fast deflation

Sorry bro..

No more lies
No more lies
No more lies
No more lies
No more lies
No more lies
No more lies
No more lies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqkMsXcHQYg

That is no lie, but it is the ugly truth of bitcoin, that most people involved with bitcoin aren't here because they are idealistic, moral and ethical. They are here because they are promised an easy way to get rich. The talks of freedom and liberty are just marketing techniques to sell bitcoins to those who know less.
Bitcoin kind of reminds me the communism movement. On the outside, it looked like idealistic people want to give more freedom and liberty to the people, but really they were just interested in redistributing power to their favor, while actually concentrating power even more then before.

That's just your cynical point of view, not the 'ugly truth'. You're just making assumptions as to what most people are in it for and that's your entire argument against it? I think for many it's a combination of things. Some see Bitcoin as a better form of money because there is no central authority having a monopoly on its creation and there is no limitless supply that can be created out of nowhere. It also cuts out middlemen like banks which is also a very positive thing for many. Others just see it as a practical tool to move money around and across borders almost for free. Anyway there are many reasons why people would like to get into Bitcoin, not just to make a lot of money. But even if it's only about becoming rich for some, how is that different from the people who invested early in Apple or Google? Are those companies bad because of greedy speculators/early adopters as well? There is a lot of risk involved with it too, so it's not an easy way to get rich at all because there is absolutely no guarantee that Bitcoin will succeed. I may lose it all if it fails. So in short I think your argument is flawed and biased but hey, you're entitled to your own opinion.

[magicmexican]

The bank has to suffer some loss too. Its their mistake in the first place.

sorry lol, if you mistakenly receive some money and spend them / lose them, you are still responsible for the loss. maybe bank will be unable to recover and have to eat it, but you cannot seriously be proposing that gambling away money credited in error is somebody elses reponsibility??

So the bank goes scot free for its error? In my book the bank has to pay a fine too.

In the situation at hand it seems bitcoinbuilder is simply washing its hands off and the entire liability is on Magicmexican.

Problem is, i was not trading with anything "extra", all my trades in the past days were correct. But today when i logged in my acc, my balance was fucked up, i had more goxcoins than i had(not a ton more, just more), plus a pretty big negative "real btc" balance, and then Josh said that "the only way to get rid of it is to either deposit more real btc or sell goxbtc" - but even by selling 100% of my goxbtc i would still be in the negative, so i sent him another email, pressing the issue and saying that this is a fucking joke. And only after that email he took a part of my goxbtc to get rid of the negative balance. (Which i also did not like, because it looked like he was trying to put everything on me to see how i would react first)

I am still doing some calculations, but i think i ended up paying for their technical fuck up anyway. So thats that.

[empowering]

That is the dumbest answer I've seen from you yet.

As much as it annoys me that you keep introducing new reasons of why bitcoin is not for you whenever an argument shows that it is not a black and white answer and bitcoin could have merit I do value that this discussion is taking place with solid arguments.

The potential for getting rich is a reflection of the high risks you are actually pointing out.
Bitcoin could be replaced by some other crypto currency.
All the points you are making are the reasons why bitcoins current value is what it is and why it might be magnitudes more once they are resolved.
Just like you many many people are saying the risk is too high.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I have never said that bitcoin is not for me. I have earned quite a buck with investing in bitcoin. The disagreement comes where I don't see that bitcoin has a very long future infront of it. I see about a year or maybe two.
And I have been telling if the problems with the current market threat is resolved, then the price can go up.

It seems that if you don't agree with the constant shouts of "now this is the bottom and it will go up!" or arguments like "bitcoin will be used for decades to come!" then people here will actually start to demonize you, with acting like you are saying things that you have never actually said.

Hi- just a thought... If Bitcoin has a year or two, then whatever is going to replace it, then it must already be around right now.... so which coin is it? and what does it do that is going to make it out compete Bitcoin in your opinion?

[Carra23]

The bank has to suffer some loss too. Its their mistake in the first place.

sorry lol, if you mistakenly receive some money and spend them / lose them, you are still responsible for the loss. maybe bank will be unable to recover and have to eat it, but you cannot seriously be proposing that gambling away money credited in error is somebody elses reponsibility??

So the bank goes scot free for its error? In my book the bank has to pay a fine too.

In the situation at hand it seems bitcoinbuilder is simply washing its hands off and the entire liability is on Magicmexican.

Problem is, i was not trading with anything "extra", all my trades in the past days were correct. But today when i logged in my acc, my balance was fucked up, i had more goxcoins than i had(not a ton more, just more), plus a pretty big negative "real btc" balance, and then Josh said that "the only way to get rid of it is to either deposit more real btc or sell goxbtc" - but even by selling 100% of my goxbtc i would still be in the negative, so i sent him another email, pressing the issue and saying that this is a fucking joke. And only after that email he took a part of my goxbtc to get rid of the negative balance. (Which i also did not like, because it looked like he was trying to put everything on me to see how i would react first)

I am still doing some calculations, but i think i ended up paying for their technical fuck up anyway. So thats that.

This gets murkier by the minute. Do post your results here after the calculations.

Basically it seems they added some goxbtcs into your account at a higher price than the current. That is completely on them, then.

[magicmexican]

The bank has to suffer some loss too. Its their mistake in the first place.

sorry lol, if you mistakenly receive some money and spend them / lose them, you are still responsible for the loss. maybe bank will be unable to recover and have to eat it, but you cannot seriously be proposing that gambling away money credited in error is somebody elses reponsibility??

So the bank goes scot free for its error? In my book the bank has to pay a fine too.

In the situation at hand it seems bitcoinbuilder is simply washing its hands off and the entire liability is on Magicmexican.

Problem is, i was not trading with anything "extra", all my trades in the past days were correct. But today when i logged in my acc, my balance was fucked up, i had more goxcoins than i had(not a ton more, just more), plus a pretty big negative "real btc" balance, and then Josh said that "the only way to get rid of it is to either deposit more real btc or sell goxbtc" - but even by selling 100% of my goxbtc i would still be in the negative, so i sent him another email, pressing the issue and saying that this is a fucking joke. And only after that email he took a part of my goxbtc to get rid of the negative balance. (Which i also did not like, because it looked like he was trying to put everything on me to see how i would react first)

I am still doing some calculations, but i think i ended up paying for their technical fuck up anyway. So thats that.

This gets murkier by the minute. Do post your results here after the calculations.

Basically it seems they added some goxbtcs into your account at a higher price than the current. That is completely on them, then.

The suggestion that i should have sold all my goxbtc to still have ~ -1realbtc negative balance was the worst part. I hope it was a mistake by them to even suggest that.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

That is the dumbest answer I've seen from you yet.

As much as it annoys me that you keep introducing new reasons of why bitcoin is not for you whenever an argument shows that it is not a black and white answer and bitcoin could have merit I do value that this discussion is taking place with solid arguments.

The potential for getting rich is a reflection of the high risks you are actually pointing out.
Bitcoin could be replaced by some other crypto currency.
All the points you are making are the reasons why bitcoins current value is what it is and why it might be magnitudes more once they are resolved.
Just like you many many people are saying the risk is too high.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I have never said that bitcoin is not for me. I have earned quite a buck with investing in bitcoin. The disagreement comes where I don't see that bitcoin has a very long future infront of it. I see about a year or maybe two.
And I have been telling if the problems with the current market threat is resolved, then the price can go up.

It seems that if you don't agree with the constant shouts of "now this is the bottom and it will go up!" or arguments like "bitcoin will be used for decades to come!" then people here will actually start to demonize you, with acting like you are saying things that you have never actually said.

Hi- just a thought... If Bitcoin has a year or two, then whatever is going to replace it, then it must already be around right now.... so which coin is it? and what does it do that is going to make it out compete Bitcoin in your opinion?

Ripple.

Rumor has it that Jed is currently looking for a Frenchman who has a Frenchman roommate that both code to sell it to one of them for an undisclosed amount. Sometimes, you just can't make this shit up.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

And found this too

MT.GOX Situation Crisis Strategy, not sure if this has been on here already.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/209050732/MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft

Thanks no-ones read that yet.

Note to self: Chang Hum has yet to discover Google or the search option on this forum.

[yrtrnc]

That is the dumbest answer I've seen from you yet.

As much as it annoys me that you keep introducing new reasons of why bitcoin is not for you whenever an argument shows that it is not a black and white answer and bitcoin could have merit I do value that this discussion is taking place with solid arguments.

The potential for getting rich is a reflection of the high risks you are actually pointing out.
Bitcoin could be replaced by some other crypto currency.
All the points you are making are the reasons why bitcoins current value is what it is and why it might be magnitudes more once they are resolved.
Just like you many many people are saying the risk is too high.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I have never said that bitcoin is not for me. I have earned quite a buck with investing in bitcoin. The disagreement comes where I don't see that bitcoin has a very long future infront of it. I see about a year or maybe two.
And I have been telling if the problems with the current market threat is resolved, then the price can go up.

It seems that if you don't agree with the constant shouts of "now this is the bottom and it will go up!" or arguments like "bitcoin will be used for decades to come!" then people here will actually start to demonize you, with acting like you are saying things that you have never actually said.

Hi- just a thought... If Bitcoin has a year or two, then whatever is going to replace it, then it must already be around right now.... so which coin is it? and what does it do that is going to make it out compete Bitcoin in your opinion?

Ripple.

Rumor has it that Jed is currently looking for a Frenchman who has a Frenchman roommate that both code to sell it to one of them for an undisclosed amount. Sometimes, you just can't make this shit up.

Ahh, so ripple was made by Mark K and his plan is to cripple bitcoin so his ripple will go to da moon!

[Chang Hum]

And found this too

MT.GOX Situation Crisis Strategy, not sure if this has been on here already.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/209050732/MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft

Thanks no-ones read that yet.

Note to self: Chang Hum has yet to discover Google or the search option on this forum.

Note to self: Learn to add the sarcastic smiley at the end of sarcastic posts.

[magicmexican]

DDos #btce

[knarzo]

Ripple.

Rumor has it that Jed is currently looking for a Frenchman who has a Frenchman roommate that both code to sell it to one of them for an undisclosed amount. Sometimes, you just can't make this shit up.

You mean this ripple? --> http://ripplescam.org/

[Chang Hum]

I wonder why the bitcion builder price is as low as it is my thoughts are:

-Even if the crisis document is true than liability's/assets puts goxcoins at about 5-1, not 20-1 as is the current price.
-There's a speculative chance and good reason to believe that document was highly exaggerated or a takeover could be on the cards.
-The market fluctuates wildly I've got roughly 8k USD on that exchange after having pulled out my original 5k stake.

Any thoughts as to why it's so low?

[magicmexican]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z30k4/bitcoin_builder_not_secure/

hm

[FTWbitcoinFTW]

The bank has to suffer some loss too. Its their mistake in the first place.

sorry lol, if you mistakenly receive some money and spend them / lose them, you are still responsible for the loss. maybe bank will be unable to recover and have to eat it, but you cannot seriously be proposing that gambling away money credited in error is somebody elses reponsibility??

So the bank goes scot free for its error? In my book the bank has to pay a fine too.

In the situation at hand it seems bitcoinbuilder is simply washing its hands off and the entire liability is on Magicmexican.

Problem is, i was not trading with anything "extra", all my trades in the past days were correct. But today when i logged in my acc, my balance was fucked up, i had more goxcoins than i had(not a ton more, just more), plus a pretty big negative "real btc" balance, and then Josh said that "the only way to get rid of it is to either deposit more real btc or sell goxbtc" - but even by selling 100% of my goxbtc i would still be in the negative, so i sent him another email, pressing the issue and saying that this is a fucking joke. And only after that email he took a part of my goxbtc to get rid of the negative balance. (Which i also did not like, because it looked like he was trying to put everything on me to see how i would react first)

I am still doing some calculations, but i think i ended up paying for their technical fuck up anyway. So thats that.

This gets murkier by the minute. Do post your results here after the calculations.

Basically it seems they added some goxbtcs into your account at a higher price than the current. That is completely on them, then.

The suggestion that i should have sold all my goxbtc to still have ~ -1realbtc negative balance was the worst part. I hope it was a mistake by them to even suggest that.

It's possible if you bought yesterday... or worst, the day before, or worst, last week.
In fact anytime before now

[Phinnaeus Gage]

And found this too

MT.GOX Situation Crisis Strategy, not sure if this has been on here already.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/209050732/MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft

Thanks no-ones read that yet.

Note to self: Chang Hum has yet to discover Google or the search option on this forum.

Note to self: Learn to add the sarcastic smiley at the end of sarcastic posts.

Chang, please forgive me. I meant joburgtaxi. My first mistake this year. 

[xulescu]

There's so much FUD about Ripple...

The idea itself (credit networks) is well known and actually likely to work. The problems with Ripple itself are that
a. the devs can't explain shit
b. the investors can't understand shit

Ripples themselves are only transaction fees IOUs. They are not going "to the moon" and that is precisely why the devs essentially premined most of them.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

mtgoxUSD
mtgoxEUR
mtgoxJPY
mtgoxGBP
mtgoxAUD
mtgoxPLN
mtgoxCAD
mtgoxCHF
mtgoxSEK
mtgoxNZD
mtgoxCNY
mtgoxSGD
mtgoxHKD
mtgoxDKK
mtgoxTHB
mtgoxRUB

That's 16 different exchanges in 16 different countries, none of which were linked to one another, and all having separate incorporation papers in their respective countries. Mt Gox (USD) just happened to be the largest one that we're all familiar with, but they all went dark at the same time.

Now, you tell me how can one going down affect the other 15 unless...

Take a look here if you don't believe me: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

Josh, more fans please! The shit is piling up and needs to be circulated.

[johnny211]

Problem is, i was not trading with anything "extra", all my trades in the past days were correct. But today when i logged in my acc, my balance was fucked up, i had more goxcoins than i had(not a ton more, just more), plus a pretty big negative "real btc" balance, and then Josh said that "the only way to get rid of it is to either deposit more real btc or sell goxbtc" - but even by selling 100% of my goxbtc i would still be in the negative, so i sent him another email, pressing the issue and saying that this is a fucking joke. And only after that email he took a part of my goxbtc to get rid of the negative balance. (Which i also did not like, because it looked like he was trying to put everything on me to see how i would react first)

I am still doing some calculations, but i think i ended up paying for their technical fuck up anyway. So thats that.

Sounds messed up, tally up the logs any way you can asap. You need to know how builder arrives at their numbers.

[magicmexican]

The bank has to suffer some loss too. Its their mistake in the first place.

sorry lol, if you mistakenly receive some money and spend them / lose them, you are still responsible for the loss. maybe bank will be unable to recover and have to eat it, but you cannot seriously be proposing that gambling away money credited in error is somebody elses reponsibility??

So the bank goes scot free for its error? In my book the bank has to pay a fine too.

In the situation at hand it seems bitcoinbuilder is simply washing its hands off and the entire liability is on Magicmexican.

Problem is, i was not trading with anything "extra", all my trades in the past days were correct. But today when i logged in my acc, my balance was fucked up, i had more goxcoins than i had(not a ton more, just more), plus a pretty big negative "real btc" balance, and then Josh said that "the only way to get rid of it is to either deposit more real btc or sell goxbtc" - but even by selling 100% of my goxbtc i would still be in the negative, so i sent him another email, pressing the issue and saying that this is a fucking joke. And only after that email he took a part of my goxbtc to get rid of the negative balance. (Which i also did not like, because it looked like he was trying to put everything on me to see how i would react first)

I am still doing some calculations, but i think i ended up paying for their technical fuck up anyway. So thats that.

This gets murkier by the minute. Do post your results here after the calculations.

Basically it seems they added some goxbtcs into your account at a higher price than the current. That is completely on them, then.

The suggestion that i should have sold all my goxbtc to still have ~ -1realbtc negative balance was the worst part. I hope it was a mistake by them to even suggest that.

It's possible if you bought yesterday... or worst, the day before, or worst, last week.
In fact anytime before now

I dont think its true because i would notice if i got credited more Goxbtc than i should.

The account history *suggests* it might be true, in a way that very very small negative loands were added to the each trade (but did not appear on your balance), to the point that after doing many trades you "suddenly" own them like 5+ btc and at current rate of 0.05~ its impossible to recover from. Fucked up.

[kkaspar]

Hi- just a thought... If Bitcoin has a year or two, then whatever is going to replace it, then it must already be around right now.... so which coin is it? and what does it do that is going to make it out compete Bitcoin in your opinion?

I tend to think that The digital currency hasn't been created yet. I'm still waiting for a team with proper funding and experience to enter this field. The potential is too big for single hobbyists.