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Question: How far will this leg take us?
$110K - 9 (8.3%)
$120K - 19 (17.6%)
$130K - 17 (15.7%)
$140K - 9 (8.3%)
$150K - 19 (17.6%)
$160K - 2 (1.9%)
$170K+ - 33 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 108

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26912240 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 1 users with 9 merit deleted.)
WatChe
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October 18, 2025, 12:11:01 PM
Merited by Paashaas (1)

I admire JayJuanGee dedication and his tenacious undertaking having so much free time making large post day-in-day-out for years.

This guy deserves a forum award.

He must be respected for the hard work he do to reply folks here.


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October 18, 2025, 12:31:15 PM
Merited by WatChe (1)

I admire JayJuanGee dedication and his tenacious undertaking having so much free time making large post day-in-day-out for years.

This guy deserves a forum award.

He must be respected for the hard work he do to reply folks here.




Indeed.

Maybe this time we should institute JJG Appreciation Saturdays? Maybe?
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October 18, 2025, 12:42:01 PM
Last edit: October 18, 2025, 01:16:50 PM by BTCETFInvestor

You can blame the natives (whales and 4-year cycle believers) for the recent selloff.

The outflow was ancient whales and native OGs selling - the institutions were buying...

Blame your fellow BTC hodler for selling and crashing the price!  Angry

Quote
BTC ETF inflows: $2.4B


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/morning-minute-bitcoin-falls-again-143026888.html
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October 18, 2025, 12:43:29 PM

I admire JayJuanGee dedication and his tenacious undertaking having so much free time making large post day-in-day-out for years.

This guy deserves a forum award.

He must be respected for the hard work he do to reply folks here.




Indeed.

Maybe this time we should institute JJG Appreciation Saturdays? Maybe?

Finally, someone wise enough to recognise the efforts of our dearest JJG.

If approved by the community. I will draft the official schedule  Wink
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October 18, 2025, 01:08:32 PM

Panic is for the weak.

Real holders don’t flinch, they refresh the chart and smile.  Cheesy
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October 18, 2025, 01:13:58 PM
Last edit: October 18, 2025, 02:41:55 PM by BTCETFInvestor

I admire JayJuanGee dedication and his tenacious undertaking having so much free time making large post day-in-day-out for years.

This guy deserves a forum award.

He must be respected for the hard work he do to reply folks here.




Indeed.

Maybe this time we should institute JJG Appreciation Saturdays? Maybe?

Finally, someone wise enough to recognise the efforts of our dearest JJG.

If approved by the community. I will draft the official schedule  Wink

So, you're in love with an asshole?  Grin
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October 18, 2025, 01:17:14 PM

You claim to not be in favor of wrapped BTC, while at the same time spending quite a lot of time trying to proclaim that they are just a part of what we need to accept.

Sure, various shitty things happen in regards to bitcoin, yet I doubt any of us need to argue in favor of them.
I am not arguing in favor of them. I am trying to give a more balanced opinion instead of all is bad, everyone who uses it is bad. I have explained why. This kind of approach leads people to choose even worse instruments and getting scammed. If you don't care about them at all sure you can say it is their own fault. I don't think that is necessary though. If they want to use wrapped things, we can at least educate them on the risk and push them towards the better options? Again the big misunderstanding here is that you are supposed to compare wBTC to BTC, that is not correct and you can't make that comparison at all. You are supposed to compare it relative to other wrapped options like renBTC if that is still a thing to evaluate it in its own relative context of what it is. Anyhow don't you get tired of all the yes I agree responses to your posts in many other threads? Tongue

That sounds good theoretically, but most of the corporate treasuries are held this way. Why jump on WBTC as wrong? Did you write to Saylor that he should take control of his keys?  Grin
Saylor is a bit of a dumb-ass in regards to his proclamations that custodial solutions are a good thing for either himself (his company) or even his various attempts to normalize those aspects of the way bitcoin is being held and/or sold - and so even Saylor likely realizes (since he is not a dummy) that bitcoin's power comes from its ability to be self-custodied (or threatened to be self-custodied), even if not everyone does it, and I think that I had heard Saylor acknowledge those points in the past, even though he has evolved into even less radical talking points in recent years as compared with some of his earlier years proselytizing bitcoin.
If you criticize Saylor and custodian wrapped solutions at the same time then that is fair. Here I want to say that criticizing custodians and wrapped solutions but applauding Saylor would be hypocritical and wrong.

You think that there needs to be some kind of a litmus test in order for guys to express their opinions about bitcoin code? and/or governance? whether they know anything about these topics or not?
I don't think any kind of standard test would be good because that introduces a centralized barrier for entry which can be abused. I think that with education and scrutiny by senior Bitcoin members we can achieve enough impact. We should not encourage somebody who doesn't even know how a Bitcoin address works to go and annoy the developers about issues relating to OP Return..

If you think about it there is already a decentralized litmus test anyway, that is what I was trying to tell you. If you are a good participant in the discussions meaning that you show correct knowledge and reasoning and especially if you start making good code contributions you have essentially passed the test. With time more and more contributors will value you and your reputation will rise. There is no centralized leaderboard for reputation, but there is a decentralized one.

That is the nature of open source, and also the nature of free speech and various kinds of public participation matters that can frequently involve differences of opinion and even chaos.-

I doubt that you know everything in regards to various topics in which you choose to participate.
I don't but this is not a good comparison. You can't have it both. Either you can have the Core developers efficient and good development work or you can have them losing a lot of time to random people and their wrong opinions and ideas. They are limited in numbers and their time is limited. Wouldn't it be better for them to spend time reviewing important code instead of responding to the 1000nd wrong post about OP RETURN by people who don't even know the basics of Bitcoin?

This modern world is strange. Not that long ago people would not share their false knowledge, they would wait until they became masters of a trade before they would try to educate someone else.
Historically, the internet did not exist in all parts of the world, so there seems to be ongoing adaptation to the role of communication and information in this new world, and surely bitcoin is value attached to information, which is also both a threat and empowering at the same time in regards to its paradigm changing nature, and we don't even know the ramifications of how bitcoin is going to play out.... so who is going to administer this litmus test that you would like to have activated?
The problem is a cultural one, no central solutions would solve anything. People in general just need to shut up more and instead spend time learning and listening. Internet and social media have caused a massive denigration in this part of existence.

You mean ostracize? Yes.  We help them by referring to them as retarded, gullible and various other denigrations.
Yes, that is the word that I was looking for. I don't think that your method will work well with many people though. I mean you are right that they are those things, but the question is what is our goal? If it is to educate them and get them to use the right thing, then perhaps insulting them is not the best strategy?  Cheesy
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October 18, 2025, 01:33:57 PM
Merited by philipma1957 (1), Biodom (1), modrobert (1)

What's this I'm reading about people selling corn to buy gold?

Stupid bastards.
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October 18, 2025, 01:54:57 PM
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~snip

.....but I'm not an economist like ole Jerome.  If I were, I would have recommended a rate cut all the way back to the 3.5% neutral level a loooong time ago.

That's why we have Jerome doing the job rather than uie-pooie.  Wink

No homo.

Stay in your lane.  Your specialties seem to be hats and sure, other various random quasi-useful things like sampling the best places to buy coffee or prognosticating if there are going to be ions (vibrations) in the air or not and/or perhaps identifying various grammar mistakes in these here parts and various other quasi-random thingies.. besides just HODLing dee cornz like a pro.



 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

 Sure, tell the inconsequential nobody, with zero influence on the US economy save the occasional venturationings into the promised land for entertainment purposes only, to stay in his lane for voicing its opinion while you stand with a politically appointed lawyer with a poli-sci degree and no formal economics education ruin run your economyinto the ground.  I only care because every misstep of the US Fed has a greater effect on the economy of my country than any combination of factors my government could control.  Lowering the interest rate into neutral territory would be a relief not only for the citizens of the US but for the entire free world (and maybe even some of the not-so-free world).

 
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Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
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October 18, 2025, 02:29:54 PM


If "it's" truly "over" per the measly 18% dip, it's difficult to argue there's been a "bull" market, and the last 18 months were just a few finance bros huffing ETF fumes...zero llama activity
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Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
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October 18, 2025, 03:24:21 PM

dec 2024 106.7k

oct 2025 107.1k

looks pretty fucking sideways to me.




Quote
https://newhedge.io/bitcoin/difficulty-estimator

Latest Block:   919667  (a few seconds ago)

Current Pace:   107.0442%  (372 / 347.52 expected, 24.48 ahead)

Previous Difficulty:   150839487445890.5                            
Current Difficulty:   146716052770107.5                            
Next Difficulty:   between 150604401755447 and 158967669707870
Next Difficulty Change:   between +2.6503% and +8.3506%
Previous Retarget:   last Thursday at 1:23 AM  (-2.7337%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   October 29, 2025 at 3:17 AM  (in 10d 15h 58m 8s)
Next Retarget (latest):   October 29, 2025 at 5:59 PM  (in 11d 6h 40m 22s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 13d 1h 53m 20s and 13d 16h 35m 34s


but mining difficulty is bullish very much so up 44.0% while price is sideways





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October 18, 2025, 04:36:14 PM
Last edit: October 18, 2025, 05:08:24 PM by Biodom
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@JJG -

gm to our resident sentiment interrogator Cheesy

OK, I did the math and I sold 4.70% at $121,200 to be precise. That wasn’t a panic sell, I planned to sell some around $125,000 but had a conversation with El Duderino_ one evening and he had recently sold some so I thought to take some pressure off the table so I could stop staring at charts 100 times a day. So I pulled the trigger and now have six years of living expenses (probably more than most people earn in over 10 years). I retired in 2021 in my thirties and am living on my Bitcoin. I have enough to take me to the death bed quite comfortably (I think). But I have to be honest with you, I did shave another couple of percent off at $92,000 earlier in the year when all that tariff BS was going on.

My anxiety around price comes from the fact that I had planned to sell quite a bit more this year, I wanted to pull out $3,000,000 to diversify into real estate and also my Mrs wanted a bigger home. We actually bought our current home without a mortgage in 2022 after the 2021 bull run. No regrets there, although it was 15 Bitcoin and it is now worth 8 Bitcoin Cheesy I am fine in this house but you know what women are like. But I will not sell any Bitcoin below $125,000 - $130,000 now. I just can not justify selling here.

I’ve calmed down a little bit now, if the top is in then it’s in, nothing we can do about it. I am positioned well either way but am disappointed if the cycle is finito. If we can build some support at $107,000 and stocks hold up well then we could be in business towards the end of the year because Powell is due to cut rates and Trump will TACO on China tariffs so that could calm markets.

Regarding a bet I am not 100% confident the cycle is over but I made a commitment so let’s say for 100,000 satoshis -

No more ATHs before the end of Q1 2026. If we hit a new ATH before end of Q1 2026 I pay you 100,000 sats. If we don’t you pay me 100,000 sats.

Deal?

Anybody else reading, in the words of DJT, ’Thank you for your attention to this matter’



Congrats...it is different depending on whether you retired or not.
I am older, but still work..a creature of habit, perhaps, but it helps with the cash flow.

My Mrs increased our yearly spending almost 2x in the last couple of years (due to btc appreciation, of course), so I feel the pinch to sell sometimes, but I have other assets to sell-money market interest goes first, then money market itself, then minor "c-o", then stocks.
I guess that I am trying to carry btc to the next gen, but I am flexible.
When short term interest rates would be at 3-3.5%, maybe I would consider a loan against btc...currently you can find it at 9.99% APR...too high, still.
I would definitely get a loan against some btc with a legit company if the interest would be, say, 5% or maybe even 6%.
EDIT: forgot to add...maybe a loan against 5% of btc or something like this.
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October 18, 2025, 04:49:39 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

dec 2024 106.7k

oct 2025 107.1k

looks pretty fucking sideways to me.
If you don't add context then you can't draw any valuable conclusions from this. Don't cherry pick data. If you want to do a fair yearly comparison you have to pick the same day from October. So where were we then?

October 18 2024 68.4k
October 19 2025 107.1k

Looks pretty fucking bullish to me!
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October 18, 2025, 05:01:56 PM
Merited by philipma1957 (1)

dec 2024 106.7k

oct 2025 107.1k

looks pretty fucking sideways to me.
If you don't add context then you can't draw any valuable conclusions from this. Don't cherry pick data. If you want to do a fair yearly comparison you have to pick the same day from October. So where were we then?

October 18 2024 68.4k
October 19 2025 107.1k

Looks pretty fucking bullish to me!

Yeah, but he has a point in that we are clearly deviating from the expectations...currently.

Just look at the M2 line vs btc. perhaps we just follow a future liquidity 'wiggle" on the chart?
https://charts.bgeometrics.com/m2_global_10w.html
Interestingly, liquidity expectation is currently flatlining.

Nobody knows how long this under-performance at the end of a cycle would last, but my wish is for bitcoin to pick up the steam soon.
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October 18, 2025, 05:08:07 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (21), AlcoHoDL (1), psycodad (1)

@JJG -
gm to our resident sentiment interrogator Cheesy

An "interrogator" is not necessarily a good thing to be considered.  Trolls engage in those kinds of behaviors.. They interrogate, and then do not provide much of anything of value on their own end.  hahahaha

OK, I did the math and I sold 4.70% at $121,200 to be precise. That wasn’t a panic sell, I planned to sell some around $125,000 but had a conversation with El Duderino_ one evening and he had recently sold some so I thought to take some pressure off the table so I could stop staring at charts 100 times a day. So I pulled the trigger and now have six years of living expenses (probably more than most people earn in over 10 years). I retired in 2021 in my thirties and am living on my Bitcoin. I have enough to take me to the death bed quite comfortably (I think). But I have to be honest with you, I did shave another couple of percent off at $92,000 earlier in the year when all that tariff BS was going on.

You should know (and/or recall) that I completely have no problem with shaving off various profits along the way, since a lot of my talking points deal with that kind of incrementalism, and surely I recall a few years ago that you were planning on selling everything, and then you came to realize that bitcoin remains a lifetime investment, even if we have to suffer through an extensive amount of volatility (and even seeming drama) in order to keep on holding onto it.

I am not completely immuned to the kinds of frustrations related to the ups and downs of BTC price moves and sometimes blaming what seems to be the cause of changes in momentum.. even though surely it seems my level of anxiety does not quite reach the same levels of yours, including some of your articulation of such frustrations has been recently going way further than I would have had thought to be good for yourself and even your influence on other forum members who are surely in different stages of their bitcoin accumulation journey - not that any of us really know bitcoin's direction or even have any responsibilities to spread good bitcoin information, whether we are frustrated with aspects of it or not.

My anxiety around price comes from the fact that I had planned to sell quite a bit more this year, I wanted to pull out $3,000,000 to diversify into real estate and also my Mrs wanted a bigger home. We actually bought our current home without a mortgage in 2022 after the 2021 bull run. No regrets there, although it was 15 Bitcoin and it is now worth 8 Bitcoin Cheesy I am fine in this house but you know what women are like. But I will not sell any Bitcoin below $125,000 - $130,000 now. I just can not justify selling here.

I surely did not want to coax these levels of details out of you.  We can delete out the details if you want.. even though perhaps it might be too late... perhaps?  I kind of prefer talking in hypotheticals.. but sure, guys can share whatever information in order to put context to situations.. . yet I doubt that we necessarily want to become public figures.

You likely realize that I am more into incremental withdrawals that might be price based and/or time based rather than lump sum withdrawals, yet at the same time, it is hard to object various lump sum withdrawals that still might end up constituting less than 10% for every doubling, and sure, guys could withdraw more, but if guys are merely withdrawing within a ballpark of 10% for every doubling, then it would be difficult to overextend the withdrawal - even though you would end up with less bitcoin.

And, yeah, if you had withdrawn 25% at around $50k, then it would be difficult to justify withdrawing any more than 10% between your withdrawals around $92k and $121k, unless you had largely replaced the BTC that you had withdrawn around $50k so that you really had not gone through any meaningful reduction of your BTC at or around $50k.  

Of course, you can do whatever, you want, and I am just giving my opinion in regards to what I would consider not overdoing the withdrawals in a way that you end up regret selling too much too soon in the event that the BTC price ends up continuing to go up after the point of your sale.

I’ve calmed down a little bit now,

For sure it can help to take some off of the table, especially if you can see yourself getting overly anxious about only one direction, and surely even the amount that you had taken off the table, you might end up getting tempted in using some of that to buy back cheaper... perhaps?  Sometimes it can be difficult to achieve both objectives of taking some out yet also replacing some of the BTC that were sold in the event that the BTC price substantially drops, which surely we have had since $121k and even since our so far top of $126,272

if the top is in then it’s in, nothing we can do about it.

That is true.. even though I still think that the odds are less than 50% that the top is in... I am not sure if I am able to articulate much more specifics than less than 50%.. I am not so sure that it would be 60%, so from my own calculation it is somewhere in the 50% range but less than 60% that the top is not in.

I am positioned well either way but am disappointed if the cycle is finito. If we can build some support at $107,000 and stocks hold up well then we could be in business towards the end of the year because Powell is due to cut rates and Trump will TACO on China tariffs so that could calm markets.

I really doubt it is going to take that long (meaning until the end of the year).. but, yeah, who knows?

Regarding a bet I am not 100% confident the cycle is over but I made a commitment so let’s say for 100,000 satoshis -

No more ATHs before the end of Q1 2026. If we hit a new ATH before end of Q1 2026 I pay you 100,000 sats. If we don’t you pay me 100,000 sats.

Deal?

That sounds reasonable... . and to be sent either on chain or by lightning network depending on fees, but the recipient has to receive 100k sats.., and probably we could use the deadline for the bet to be either 23:59 UTC time on March 31, 2026 or perhaps 0:00 UTC time on April 1, 2026.  1 minute either way should not make a difference.

Of course, it should go without saying (but is good for any observers) that we know that we are using Bitstamp as our price reference, so the BTC price happenings on any other exchange or price oracle would be irrelevant noise in regards to our bet.

And, by the way, even if you were 75% or more confident about your side of the bet, then it would seem worthy of making the bet, since we are never going to be 100% confident.. and as I mentioned above, my own confidence level of is merely in the 50% territory. .but I think that the odds are in my favor rather than against, which is why I proposed the bet, and partly to get you to put your money where your mouth is, since you were becoming quite loud, which was starting to seem that you might not even sufficiently believe what you were saying... hahahahaha.. so in that sense, it is good to have the bet, just to get each of us to stand behind our comments in some reasonable and/or measurable way.

Oh and the other thing is that you are so much on a timeline (schedule) in regards to your perception of bitcoin's need to perform within a certain window, so part of my own lure is to allow for the possibility that the ATH could come in the first quarter of 2026 rather than coming in 2025.. which you likely consider to hardly be giving anything extra away, since from your perspective, bitcoin is largely on a timeline.  hahahaha. I would so much love if the ATH did not come until sometime in the 1st quarter of 2026... to really shake some of that timeline out of your own thinking...

yet at the same time, surely I could end up being the one who ends up eating crow. .and surely I am thinking that if the top is $126,272, then surely going below $0k for the correction (or for the bear) does not even seem very likely (even though there is more than a zero chance that the BTC price could end up going below $0k)

Anybody else reading, in the words of DJT, ’Thank you for your attention to this matter’

Even if our egos might get a wee bit in the way, it should be a somewhat topical bet... since we are betting on both BTC price direction and the intensity of such BTC price movement, in terms of whether there is enough intensity for it to get back above $126,272 prior to 0:00 UTC time on April 1, 2026..  I expect that we are not going to need the whole 5.5-ish months to resolve this disputed matter (in my favor).  Tongue

By the way, I expect that I would start to lose a decent amount of my confidence if we were to start to get close to $80k. That would not be a good sign for my side of the bet prevailing.

Maybe one more clarification.  100k sats is the same as 0.001 BTC... I am pretty sure that you are already used to giving away that many sats, since I seem to recall that you gave more than twice that amount to AlcoHoDL.. for free.. Free as in not costing AlcoHoDL anything.. He did not even have to bet you about any subject matter.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

By the way.  Thanks for your cooperation, LFC, in entering into this bet and the nearly free sats..  
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