Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[inca]

That was great timing.  I had just convinced myself to go margin long at 629, then the ISIS news hit and the price dropped to 616 before I could pull the trigger.

This skittishness is cringe worthy.  There is a hint of FUD, so everyone sells.  There is no thought of whether the story is even important (see the auction for a great example).  BTC traders need to put on their big boy pants and stop being pansies.  Or stop trying to make a living from $5 profits.

if you are confident take advantage of the low price, or chase the rally

I know the time will come, just need to be patient. gains rarely happen overnight

Yes the twitchiness of this community is incredible.

Time for me to buy another twenty coins then not check the price for a month.

[gizmoh]

Bulls in Denial 

[inca]

Bulls in Denial 

Denial of what? The price is 620. We are a sneeze from 700 then each and every one of you bears will buy back in.

[gizmoh]

Denial of what? The price is 620. We are a sneeze from 700 then each and every one of you bears will buy back in.

Dismissing every bad news as FUD. Train is losing steam, price is slowly drifting downwards.
What will happen to the $29.6 million in longs at finex if bear trend resumes?  

[empowering]

blah blah

 

Just like every bit of good news does not mean $10,000 tomorrow, every naff bit of non news does not qualify for the death of Bitcoin - get a grip.

The market moves, up ... and .... down.

The ISIS "news" is pure BS.

[Dragonkiller]

Denial of what? The price is 620. We are a sneeze from 700 then each and every one of you bears will buy back in.

Dismissing every bad news as FUD. Train is losing steam, price is slowly drifting downwards.
What will happen to the $29.6 million in longs at finex if bear trend resumes?  

Some terrorist realized he can use BTC to transfer value? I'm sorry but is that news?

Some exchange that nobody has heard of gets shut down because they don't have a licence? Again, who gives a shit?

[inca]

Denial of what? The price is 620. We are a sneeze from 700 then each and every one of you bears will buy back in.

Dismissing every bad news as FUD. Train is losing steam, price is slowly drifting downwards.
What will happen to the $29.6 million in longs at finex if bear trend resumes?  

I must be missing the actual bad news? A few speculators (and momo minnows like you) sold after a puff piece headline. The price fell. And?

Minor price fluctuations are irrelevant.

[JorgeStolfi]

For one thing, if one day it may look like like they may succeed in their goal -- bypassing government controls on money flow and supply --, then governments will surely ban them. 

Governments do not have control of money flow and supply.  Banks do.

Whatever, it does not change the problem.

The controls I am referring to include their fight against money laundering, illegal commerce, bribery, embezzlement, tax evasion, blackmail, financing terrorism, sabotage and assasinations on their soil,  ...  If governments get to see cryptocurrencies as a significant obstacle to their efforts against those things,  they will clamp down on them -- make crypto commerce illegal, raid servers, co-opt or infitrate crypto outfits, etc.  With full support from the banks, of course.

Bearer stock certificates (BSCs) were numbered but anonymous pieces of fancy paper that certified the bearer as owner of so-many shares of some company.  BSCs of major companies were fungible and untraceable, like dollar bills; but one certificate could be worth thousands of dollars, so they were much more convenient than cash or gold for large payments that had to be hidden from the government, and to take money across borders.  Moreover, their value would grow over time, so they could be used to safely store wealth for decades, out of the reach of government.  BSCs of course were favorites of criminals and tax evaders.  Surprise, companies no longer issue BSCs, and they have been outlawed in many places (~20 years ago in Brazil, IIRC). 

[empowering]

For one thing, if one day it may look like like they may succeed in their goal -- bypassing government controls on money flow and supply --, then governments will surely ban them. 

Governments do not have control of money flow and supply.  Banks do.

Whatever, it does not change the problem.

The controls I am referring to include their fight against money laundering, illegal commerce, bribery, embezzlement, tax evasion, blackmail, financing terrorism, sabotage and assasinations on their soil,  ...  If governments get to see cryptocurrencies as a significant obstacle to their efforts against those things,  they will clamp down on them -- make crypto commerce illegal, raid servers, co-opt or infitrate crypto outfits, etc.  With full support from the banks, of course.

Bearer stock certificates (BSCs) were numbered but anonymous pieces of fancy paper that certified the bearer as owner of so-many shares of some company.  BSCs of major companies were fungible and untraceable, like dollar bills; but one certificate could be worth thousands of dollars, so they were much more convenient than cash or gold for large payments that had to be hidden from the government, and to take money across borders.  Moreover, their value would grow over time, so they could be used to safely store wealth for decades, out of the reach of government.  BSCs of course were favorites of criminals and tax evaders.  Surprise, companies no longer issue BSCs, and they have been outlawed in many places (~20 years ago in Brazil, IIRC). 

Yeah they are all over it... http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/gangster-bankers-too-big-to-jail-20130214

 "The deal was announced quietly, just before the holidays, almost like the government was hoping people were too busy hanging stockings by the fireplace to notice. Flooring politicians, lawyers and investigators all over the world, the U.S. Justice Department granted a total walk to executives of the British-based bank HSBC for the largest drug-and-terrorism money-laundering case ever. Yes, they issued a fine – $1.9 billion, or about five weeks' profit – but they didn't extract so much as one dollar or one day in jail from any individual, despite a decade of stupefying abuses.

People may have outrage fatigue about Wall Street, and more stories about billionaire greedheads getting away with more stealing often cease to amaze. But the HSBC case went miles beyond the usual paper-pushing, keypad-punching­ sort-of crime, committed by geeks in ties, normally associated­ with Wall Street. In this case, the bank literally got away with murder – well, aiding and abetting it, anyway."


They have got bigger fish to fry.... or not fry as the case may be.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Raystonn]

For one thing, if one day it may look like like they may succeed in their goal -- bypassing government controls on money flow and supply --, then governments will surely ban them. 

Governments do not have control of money flow and supply.  Banks do.

Whatever, it does not change the problem.

The controls I am referring to include their fight against money laundering, illegal commerce, bribery, embezzlement, tax evasion, blackmail, financing terrorism, sabotage and assasinations on their soil,  ...  If governments get to see cryptocurrencies as a significant obstacle to their efforts against those things,  they will clamp down on them -- make crypto commerce illegal, raid servers, co-opt or infitrate crypto outfits, etc.  With full support from the banks, of course.

Bearer stock certificates (BSCs) were numbered but anonymous pieces of fancy paper that certified the bearer as owner of so-many shares of some company.  BSCs of major companies were fungible and untraceable, like dollar bills; but one certificate could be worth thousands of dollars, so they were much more convenient than cash or gold for large payments that had to be hidden from the government, and to take money across borders.  Moreover, their value would grow over time, so they could be used to safely store wealth for decades, out of the reach of government.  BSCs of course were favorites of criminals and tax evaders.  Surprise, companies no longer issue BSCs, and they have been outlawed in many places (~20 years ago in Brazil, IIRC). 

Apples and oranges.  Would you really want to carry around a piece of paper worth millions of dollars?  You'd need an armored vehicle.  It's not efficient, nor safe.

Bitcoin is not anonymous, and can be transmitted without an armored vehicle.  The NSA's job going forward will be to identify addresses owned by terrorists.  The blockchain can be mined in a 6 degrees fashion to find the circles of terrorists.  The points where the NSA will insert themselves will be at vendors and exchanges that take the currency and give something else of value.  That will always be a point where identification can be made of individuals and businesses facilitating purchasing for terrorist networks.

[dropt]

Train is losing steam, price is slowly drifting downwards.

GTFO.  The price is slowly drifting upwards, only someone (or a group) is making routine BTC500 dumps setting it back.  Almost everytime the price starts creeping back up.

[Richy_T]

They have got bigger fish to fry.... or not fry as the case may be.

But they probably paid their taxes.

Of the laundry list of things that Jorge listed, only "tax evasion" is a thing that government is really concerned about. And then only if you're the wrong kind of tax evader.

[JorgeStolfi]

.
 But the HSBC case went miles beyond the usual paper-pushing, keypad-punching­ sort-of crime, committed by geeks in ties, normally associated­ with Wall Street. In this case, the bank literally got away with murder – well, aiding and abetting it, anyway."

Apples and oranges.  Would you really want to carry around a piece of paper worth millions of dollars?

Sigh, the standard knee-jerk responses...  They miss the point.

The point is not "I don't like bitcoin because it helps criminals"  nor "XXX is better than bitcoin".  The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do. 

[JorgeStolfi]

Of the laundry list of things that Jorge listed, only "tax evasion" is a thing that government is really concerned about. And then only if you're the wrong kind of tax evader.

Granted, all those items (even financing domestic terrorism) can be fought selectively, by any government.

[KFR]

Trollfi still constructively and productively posting here I see.  Shouldn't you be out standing on a roof top with your hands on your hips and cape flying looking to save some innocent Brazilians from the future?

[empowering]

.
 But the HSBC case went miles beyond the usual paper-pushing, keypad-punching­ sort-of crime, committed by geeks in ties, normally associated­ with Wall Street. In this case, the bank literally got away with murder – well, aiding and abetting it, anyway."

Apples and oranges.  Would you really want to carry around a piece of paper worth millions of dollars?

Sigh, the standard knee-jerk responses...  They miss the point.

The point is not "I don't like bitcoin because it helps criminals"  nor "XXX is better than bitcoin".  The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do.  

It is a big IF, Bitcoin does not make laundering money any easier...  Also Bitcoin is merely a medium of exchange in the context of money laundering, the thing that is being laundered is the fiat £$, there are many methods of laundering money involving many different things gold, silver, contracts, shops, art, diamonds,real estate, to name but a few... and none of which are banned, or will be banned... the blockchain if anything makes money laundering on a large scale risky. Since BTC is pseudonymous not anonymous and there are on and off ramps for fiat, I suspect that is where the attention will be placed.

What do you think crypto is intended to do? and by who?

[JorgeStolfi]

Trollfi still constructively and productively posting here I see.  Shouldn't you be out standing on a roof top with your hands on your hips and cape flying looking to save some innocent Brazilians from the future?

My cape is in the clothesline at the moment but, generally, yes.   

[Raystonn]

The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do. 

Government can never completely eliminate currencies based on decentralized consensus blockchains.  They can only make it more difficult to trade this currency for their own currency, and vice versa.  If government pushes Bitcoin into a black market currency, it will still exist.  In fact, if the war on drugs is anything to judge by, a war on Bitcoin will only make it worth more.

[Dragonkiller]

The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do. 

Government can never completely eliminate currencies based on decentralized consensus blockchains.  They can only make it more difficult to trade this currency for their own currency, and vice versa.  If government pushes Bitcoin into a black market currency, it will still exist.  In fact, if the war on drugs is anything to judge by, a war on Bitcoin will only make it worth more.

No. It makes me cringe every time someone says this.