Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JorgeStolfi]

or 3) They get out maneuvered by Mark Zuckerberg , who just out of spite and with great timing and much fanfare launches an app that intergrates Bitcoin and pushes Bitcoin adoption more than anything to date, and the ETF is a flop in comparison..       

Wasn't there an announcement, a month or so ago, of a facebook app that would allow tipping in a dozen cryptos, EXCLUDING bitcoin?

and ?

And nothing, but it could be a way of getting even, too. 

[LMGTFY]

Just as anarchism quickly degenerates into totalitarian rule, under laissez faire capitalism every market quickly becomes a monopoly or oligopoly; and then the companies can demand special laws and bailouts with the excuse that they are too big to be allowed to fail. ...

Has anarchism ever degenerated into totalitarian rule? The two examples of anarchist societies I can think of were toppled by external forces - by the Red Army in the Ukraine, and by the Spanish Communist Party and it's allies in Spain. Apologies if that was your point, it just seemed you were suggesting degeneration was a result of anarchism itself, rather than its opponents.

[empowering]

What?

nothing to see here, move along.

[empowering]

or 3) They get out maneuvered by Mark Zuckerberg , who just out of spite and with great timing and much fanfare launches an app that intergrates Bitcoin and pushes Bitcoin adoption more than anything to date, and the ETF is a flop in comparison..       

Wasn't there an announcement, a month or so ago, of a facebook app that would allow tipping in a dozen cryptos, EXCLUDING bitcoin?

and ?

And nothing, but it could be a way of getting even, too. 

ahh got you! 

[Wolf Rainer]

$700 31% there´s something in losing of? What´s the big new?

[dropt]

$700 31% there´s something in losing of? What´s the big new?

Hopeful bulls.   I voted $610.

[aminorex]

the SMBIT and PBP funds do not seem to have created much extra demand over their history.  Would it make much difference having a fund traded on NASDAQ, instead of privately?

Orders of magnitude.

Yes exactly. The group of people with access is just so much larger.

Not only individuals, but institutions which operate under rules preventing private placements, which are the majority of institutional investors.

[JorgeStolfi]

Has anarchism ever degenerated into totalitarian rule? The two examples of anarchist societies I can think of were toppled by external forces - by the Red Army in the Ukraine, and by the Spanish Communist Party and it's allies in Spain. Apologies if that was your point, it just seemed you were suggesting degeneration was a result of anarchism itself, rather than its opponents.

i don't know the examples you mention. I know of a few conscious attempts at anarchic communes going back to the middle ages, but all of them small and toppled by external forces.  Anarchy on a larger scale often arises involuntarily after the collapse of a centralized government with a complex administrative infrastructure; and in that case it is often succeeded by a domestic tyranny. The French and Russian revolutions may be examples of the latter.

I don't know of any example, anytime or anywhere, of an urbanized society that survived without government for more than a few months. (Although I gather that achaeologists have yet to find signs of a government at Çatal Höyök, "the very first city").

[empowering]

Has anarchism ever degenerated into totalitarian rule? The two examples of anarchist societies I can think of were toppled by external forces - by the Red Army in the Ukraine, and by the Spanish Communist Party and it's allies in Spain. Apologies if that was your point, it just seemed you were suggesting degeneration was a result of anarchism itself, rather than its opponents.

i don't know the examples you mention. I know of a few conscious attempts at anarchic communes going back to the middle ages, but all of them small and toppled by external forces.  Anarchy on a larger scale often arises involuntarily after the collapse of a centralized government with a complex administrative infrastructure; and in that case it is often succeeded by a domestic tyranny. The French and Russian revolutions may be examples of the latter.

I don't know of any example, anytime or anywhere, of an urbanized society that survived without government for more than a few months. (Although I gather that achaeologists have yet to find signs of a government at Çatal Höyök, "the very first city").

The past is not always a good indicator of the bananas

(see what I did there  )

[empowering]

oh look a unicorn...

[Marbit]

Hmm, kind of thought China was ready to rally of these higher lows. Hopefully we can at least hold these levels and rally when they wake up....

[Erdogan]

Has anarchism ever degenerated into totalitarian rule? The two examples of anarchist societies I can think of were toppled by external forces - by the Red Army in the Ukraine, and by the Spanish Communist Party and it's allies in Spain. Apologies if that was your point, it just seemed you were suggesting degeneration was a result of anarchism itself, rather than its opponents.

i don't know the examples you mention. I know of a few conscious attempts at anarchic communes going back to the middle ages, but all of them small and toppled by external forces.  Anarchy on a larger scale often arises involuntarily after the collapse of a centralized government with a complex administrative infrastructure; and in that case it is often succeeded by a domestic tyranny. The French and Russian revolutions may be examples of the latter.

I don't know of any example, anytime or anywhere, of an urbanized society that survived without government for more than a few months. (Although I gather that achaeologists have yet to find signs of a government at Çatal Höyök, "the very first city").

Ireland had 5000 years of anarchy and was renowned through europe for culture and learning during that time. Then the the British brought freedom, democracy, enslavement and starvation. The bastards chopped down all the trees too.

In the dealings between most countries, there is anarchy.

[Richy_T]

That's crony capitalism. In the Laissez faire world, there is not "too big to fail" you just fail and get bought out (or not) by someone more competent.

Just as anarchism quickly degenerates into totalitarian rule, under laissez faire capitalism every market quickly becomes a monopoly or oligopoly; and then the companies can demand special laws and bailouts with the excuse that they are too big to be allowed to fail.

Thus this is indicative of a government with too much power. Without the power, there's less opportunity to crony.

This is why many of us put focus on the government rather than sitting in a park in new york participating in drum circles whining about the 1%.

[xyzzy099]

i don't know the examples you mention. I know of a few conscious attempts at anarchic communes going back to the middle ages, but all of them small and toppled by external forces.  Anarchy on a larger scale often arises involuntarily after the collapse of a centralized government with a complex administrative infrastructure; and in that case it is often succeeded by a domestic tyranny. The French and Russian revolutions may be examples of the latter.

I don't know of any example, anytime or anywhere, of an urbanized society that survived without government for more than a few months. (Although I gather that achaeologists have yet to find signs of a government at Çatal Höyök, "the very first city").

You keep using that word 'anarchy', but I don't think you know what it means.  Anarchy is not a synonym for chaos...  As Pierre-Joseph Proudhon famously said, "Anarchy is order without power." .  You should read up on it some time.  Really.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[LMGTFY]

Has anarchism ever degenerated into totalitarian rule? The two examples of anarchist societies I can think of were toppled by external forces - by the Red Army in the Ukraine, and by the Spanish Communist Party and it's allies in Spain. Apologies if that was your point, it just seemed you were suggesting degeneration was a result of anarchism itself, rather than its opponents.

i don't know the examples you mention. I know of a few conscious attempts at anarchic communes going back to the middle ages, but all of them small and toppled by external forces.  Anarchy on a larger scale often arises involuntarily after the collapse of a centralized government with a complex administrative infrastructure; and in that case it is often succeeded by a domestic tyranny. The French and Russian revolutions may be examples of the latter.

I don't know of any example, anytime or anywhere, of an urbanized society that survived without government for more than a few months. (Although I gather that achaeologists have yet to find signs of a government at Çatal Höyök, "the very first city").

Ah, interesting (makes mental note to google Çatal Höyök). You could well be right about Russia; I don't know how strong the anarchists were before the October Revolution, but they were certainly present afterwards - "Nabat" (Russian anarchists) supported the Ukrainian anarchists against the Axis powers, the local aristocracy, and against their "own" Red Army.

Ukraine's experiment with anarchism was largely rural (and has been cited by Marxists ever since to downplay the idea that anarchism can thrive in an urban setting), but Spain - Catalonia in particular, where anarchists and syndicalists ran the region - runs counter to Marxist histories. Barcelona (Spain's second city, I think?) was controlled by anarchists from the outbreak of the Civil War until the Spanish Communists turned on their onetime allies, forcing them into exile and underground.

Thinking about it, I seem to recall something about anarchism in South America being far bigger than European/North American history gives it credit for, and that it was (is?) largely urban. Another task for google...

(Geez - the stuff I think about while watching a line wiggle up and down by a tiny fraction...)

[JorgeStolfi]

Ireland had 5000 years of anarchy and was renowned through europe for culture and learning during that time. Then the the British brought freedom, democracy, enslavement and starvation. The bastards chopped down all the trees too.

Was it so?  My understanding is that there is no reliable information about the governance of Ireland before the first written records, and by then it was just like any other place on Earth with similar level of development:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland

Ptolemy records sixteen nations inhabiting every part of Ireland in 100 AD.[28] The relationship between the Roman Empire and the kingdoms of ancient Ireland is unclear. [ ... ] Ireland continued as a patchwork of rival kingdoms but, beginning in the 7th century AD, a concept of national kingship gradually became articulated through the concept of a High King of Ireland. Medieval Irish literature portrays an almost unbroken sequence of High Kings stretching back thousands of years but modern historians believe the scheme was constructed in the 8th century to justify the status of powerful political groupings by projecting the origins of their rule into the remote past.

[Marbit]

Do people still do TA on this forum? Been a while since I've seen any.

Or did they all go to Tradingview?

[Marbit]

Fsck!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=677248
http://www.coindesk.com/5000-terminals-across-ukraine-now-offer-bitcoin-cash/

Can I get a moonshot, please?

Holding some bags, not too heavy yet...

[aminorex]

http://markstoval.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/9000-years-of-anarchy-in-ireland/

Iceland might be a somewhat better example, in that there were no claimants to national kingship, although commercial development was not nearly so advanced as in Ireland.  The Althing was basically just a big townhall meeting and festival, and as close as Iceland came to a government for a thousand years (interrupted by a couple of centuries of Danish oppression) until 1944.