MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[sturle]

Yes, and even more criminal is the statement: well functioning multi-currency exchange

Please explain which law this statement violates.

On MtGox you can trade BTC against 17 different currencies through one order book.

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[Zarathustra]

Yes, and even more criminal is the statement: well functioning multi-currency exchange

Please explain which law this statement violates.

On MtGox you can trade BTC against 17 different currencies through one order book.

"well functioning multi-currency exchange" is an untrue statement that is misleading all potential customers. Therefore it's criminal.
The same is true for the informations that this company spreads into the cyberspace.

"Trade with confidence on the world's largest Bitcoin exchange!

MtGox is the world's most established Bitcoin exchange. You can quickly and securely trade bitcoins with other people around the world with your local currency!"

[Hen0xyd]

Finaly some more information about/from mtgox and bitcoin foundation current moves : http://www.forbes.com/sites/leoking/2014/02/13/mt-gox-ceo-mark-karpeles-responds-to-widespread-bitcoin-criticism/

Here is a sample :

Mark Karpeles :
We have proposed a solution that would allow people sending bitcoins to track sent coins no matter what happens in terms of malleability (a solution that can be applied quickly and without breaking anything), and the Bitcoin developers are preparing ways to prevent modified transactions from being relayed by the network (which will take a lot of time and may break some bitcoin custom clients).

[Taborresen]

You have seemingly ignored me also, because you have not addressed my legitimate concerns about the selective information and selective withdraw privileges of gox...  

I don't have any selective withdraw privileges.  Mine are the same as those of any other verified user.

Using what I have learned by experience and by filtering useful information from public fora over many years to have a greater chance to succeed when I try to withdraw is not the same as selective withdraw privileges.  Not all my attempts were successful, btw.  I made a number of 10 BTC withdrawals.  Some were successful, some not.  I did it at a time when I had reason to expect a higher success rate, based on public information and my own experience. 

In this case people came to #mtgox and complained about an error message which usually means the bitcoin address entered in the withdrawal form is invalid or indicates an empty hot wallet at MtGox.  This was at the middle of the night Tokyo time, and I knew they would fill up first thing in the morning.  After a couple hours the reports stopped coming, and this would be the sweet spot.  Hot wallet refreshed with old unspent inputs which most likely would be chosen first.  They don't keep dust in their cold wallets, so I could choose a reasonable withdrawal size as well.

No special privileges or access to restricted information needed.  Everything is out in the open for everyone to learn.  I am certainly not the only one unaffiliated with MtGox who used this trick.  The fresh inputs went very quickly.  My only fault here is telling you about it.

At least MtGox credited my failed withdrawals back to my account.  The 8 BTC withdrawal I made from Bitstamp this morning is still listed as "Finished", but nothing arrived, nothing credited back and support are quiet.  AFAIK Bitstamp has no IRC support either.

Thank you for information. I have a hard time believing that a Norwegian could be a liar. So I wait until Mt.Gox destiny is sealed, at which point it is evident if they have all the bitcoins or not. Even if they do have them, they are still criminals in my book based on their past actions, some of which I have divulged in this thread. If they don't, you will have to admit that you were wrong all the time, leading others to destruction. At that point there will certainly be investigation on your role also.

All I want is to root out the evil from Bitcoin. I am not accepting any compensation from anyone for my losses caused by Gox crimes, unless the widows and orphans share the same pool prorated. I also hope that you cease to call them "useful idiots" solely on the grounds that their trust on the Foundation-Endorsed Market Leader has been obscenely exploited.

I think sturle have had faith that the Mt. Gox situation will be sorted out in the end. He looked at- and shared all the possibilities of this not beeing "theft or a scam, or whatever. He was positive. I dont think he will have admit to anything. My opinion...

[Taborresen]

Any educated guess on when Gox will allow withdraw of BTCs again (assuming it will happen)?

are we talking about days, weeks or months?

I don't like making guesses, so I'll let you all interpret this for yourselves:

04:05 <@MagicalTux> [12:05:05] <x> MagicalTux: would you consider a work around for manual bitcoin withdrawal if you can't get that consensus in a 'reasonable timeframe'   ie, the next week <- establishing a standard shouldn't take that long, but if indeed it takes longer we might just go on with the proposal we included in the announcement we did monday

Other news which may influence how you plan your BTC purchases when the BTC withdrawal floodgates open:

11:57 <@SarahCoinBit> Diabolicus_Work I've had more requests to cancel fiat withdrawals in the last two days than i have in the last two months

I.e: The amount of fiat on MtGox is increasing rapidly.

Think about this for a moment: If I made up a fake quote here where MagicalTux allegedly told me in private that MtGox would resume BTC withdrawals tomorrow morning, I could make a million by buying buckets of BTC on MtGox just before I posted it, and selling as soon as people start denouncing it as a fake.  Just by abusing your trust in me.  It will probably only work once, but that is all I need.  I can retire afterwards.  Always beware of market manipulation.  And note that my quotes above, which are correct, may be carefully selected and placed in a different context to manipulate the market.  Always be very critical to news and reports when you don't have the full story first hand, and take speculation for what it is: 100% made up, often for the purpose of manipulating the market.

thanks for the info.

As indicated by the forum, I am a newbie (quite accurate), so this follow up question may seem obvious for many people but not to me:
where did you get this info? are you in direct contact with Gox (i.e. IRC or something similar)?

and if so, how can other people can contact Gox staff?

I contact support (link on their page) and have always got an answer and help. I have been here for 7-8 months i think, but i have no understanding/knowledge of mining and/or coding and programming. But i have commen sense..

[Taborresen]

Any educated guess on when Gox will allow withdraw of BTCs again (assuming it will happen)?

are we talking about days, weeks or months?

I don't like making guesses, so I'll let you all interpret this for yourselves:

04:05 <@MagicalTux> [12:05:05] <x> MagicalTux: would you consider a work around for manual bitcoin withdrawal if you can't get that consensus in a 'reasonable timeframe'   ie, the next week <- establishing a standard shouldn't take that long, but if indeed it takes longer we might just go on with the proposal we included in the announcement we did monday

Other news which may influence how you plan your BTC purchases when the BTC withdrawal floodgates open:

11:57 <@SarahCoinBit> Diabolicus_Work I've had more requests to cancel fiat withdrawals in the last two days than i have in the last two months

I.e: The amount of fiat on MtGox is increasing rapidly.

Think about this for a moment: If I made up a fake quote here where MagicalTux allegedly told me in private that MtGox would resume BTC withdrawals tomorrow morning, I could make a million by buying buckets of BTC on MtGox just before I posted it, and selling as soon as people start denouncing it as a fake.  Just by abusing your trust in me.  It will probably only work once, but that is all I need.  I can retire afterwards.  Always beware of market manipulation.  And note that my quotes above, which are correct, may be carefully selected and placed in a different context to manipulate the market.  Always be very critical to news and reports when you don't have the full story first hand, and take speculation for what it is: 100% made up, often for the purpose of manipulating the market.

thanks for the info.

As indicated by the forum, I am a newbie (quite accurate), so this follow up question may seem obvious for many people but not to me:
where did you get this info? are you in direct contact with Gox (i.e. IRC or something similar)?

and if so, how can other people can contact Gox staff?

by opening a ticket in mt gox support section however in 3 weeks i have received nothing but the same  copy paste email, I think a couple of people  in this thread claim they have direct access to gox support that others do not don't know validity of this off course.

11. feb. 2014 kl. 11:14 skrev Sharon Support <notifications-info@mtgox.com>:

## Please do not write below this line ##
Ticket #181588: Withdraw
Your request (#181588) has been updated.

To review the status of the request and add additional comments, follow the link below:
http://support.mtgox.com/requests/181588

You can also add a comment by replying to this email.



Sharon Support, Feb 11 19:14:
Dear Torkild,

Thank you for contacting us. I have cancelled the withdrawal as requested and the funds has been credited back to your account. You will have to add a bank account with transfer type "euro" to withdraw EUR funds through SEPA withdrawal method. Currently, SEPA withdrawals takes up to 6 weeks to be processed. Please note that only EUR funds can be withdrawn through SEPA. You may buy bitcoins using NOK funds and sell them in EUR by creating a EUR wallet if you wish to withdraw EUR funds through SEPA.

To create a EUR wallet > Login to Mtgox account > Select Settings tab > Under preferences > Select EUR as the main currency and click Save.


Best regards,

MtGox Team
https://www.mtgox.com

[Attention: Please protect your account using OTP to ensure that your funds are safe and secure. Failing to do so makes your information vulnerable to hackers.
Please visit https://mtgox.com/security]



Taborresen, Feb 10 20:20:
The withdrawal states confirmed. Can you stop it and and transfer the withdrawal back to MT.Gox so i can withdraw with SEPA instead. As we have talked about.?

Torkild


6. feb. 2014 kl. 07:36 skrev Sharon Support <notifications-info@mtgox.com>:



Taborresen, Feb 10 20:13:
Hi again Sharon.

Thanks for the good support. Can you cancel the withdrawal that we have talked about in these mails and i can put in an SEPA withdrawal instead.?


Torkild


6. feb. 2014 kl. 07:36 skrev Sharon Support <notifications-info@mtgox.com>:



Sharon Support, Feb 06 15:36:
Dear Torkild,

Thank you for contacting us. Yes, it will be processed faster than International wire transfer.

Best regards,

MtGox Team
https://www.mtgox.com

[Attention: Please protect your account using OTP to ensure that your funds are safe and secure. Failing to do so makes your information vulnerable to hackers.
Please visit https://mtgox.com/security]



Taborresen, Feb 05 16:16:
But will it be faster then waiting for inter nation wire withdrawal?


5. feb. 2014 kl. 08:15 skrev Sharon Support <notifications-info@mtgox.com>:



Sharon Support, Feb 05 16:15:
Dear Torkild,

Thank you for contacting us. Yes, you still have the option to cancel the withdrawal. As of now SEPA withdrawals are delayed because of the huge backlog which is yet to cleared. We are expecting the issues to be sorted out soon and put things back to normal.

Best regards,

MtGox Team
https://www.mtgox.com

[Attention: Please protect your account using OTP to ensure that your funds are safe and secure. Failing to do so makes your information vulnerable to hackers.
Please visit https://mtgox.com/security]



Taborresen, Feb 04 21:14:
Is it possible to cancel the request/withdrawal, i am getting an SEPA account from my bank. Is that faster?



Sharon Support, December 31, 2013 23:56:
Dear Torkild,

Thank you for contacting us. We have merged the tickets for better followup.

Sorry for the delay on replying. Due to the high volume in support requests we were unable to answer swiftly.

On checking I can see that you have made a withdrawal on 2013-11-19 which is yet to be processed.

Due to a change in our banking system we are currently experiencing a huge back-log of withdrawals that we need to process.

Our team is working hard to increase transaction speeds.

It will take a few weeks to get back to normal, and we thank you for your patience during this time.

Again, we apologize for the delay and we will contact you once your withdrawal has been processed.


Best regards,

Mt.Gox Team
https://www.mtgox.com

[Attention: Please protect your account using OTP to ensure that your funds are safe and secure. Failing to do so makes your information vulnerable to hackers.
Please visit https://mtgox.com/security]



Sharon Support, December 31, 2013 23:54:
Request #184303 "Re: [Mt.Gox] Withdraw from your ..." was closed and merged into this request. Last comment in request #184303:

I am of course talking about the NOK (Norwegian Krone) withdrawal dated 19.11.2013


29. des. 2013 kl. 02:01 skrev Support Desk <info@mtgox.com>:





This i my comunication with Gox the last weeks. They answer me at least. Maybe they have a crush on Norwegian people.

[mgroenouwe]

Finaly some more information about/from mtgox and bitcoin foundation current moves : http://www.forbes.com/sites/leoking/2014/02/13/mt-gox-ceo-mark-karpeles-responds-to-widespread-bitcoin-criticism/

Here is a sample :

Mark Karpeles :
We have proposed a solution that would allow people sending bitcoins to track sent coins no matter what happens in terms of malleability (a solution that can be applied quickly and without breaking anything), and the Bitcoin developers are preparing ways to prevent modified transactions from being relayed by the network (which will take a lot of time and may break some bitcoin custom clients).

Hope they come with an implemented solution soon!

[sturle]

Okay, and why do you use MtGox still.

Decent APIs, only well functioning multi-currency exchange, very good arbitrage vs other exchanges and a deep order book.  To sum it up: Profit.

The only profit you or anyone makes from the use of Mt.Gox arises from the gross disparity of information among its users regarding how to use it, resulting from Mt.Gox discriminatory customer service practices. There is no legitimate arbitrage opportunity arising from market forces (regional money flows imbalance ie. remittances disparity) or even 3rd party actions (taxation, regulation). The only thing we are arbitraging is the severity of disparity of proprietary information among its users.

There will always be some who dig deep into the APIs and the inner quirks on an exchange, and casual traders who either don't care or don't have time to learn it.  And of course the devil often lies in the details.  Like the 2.5% currency conversion fee when a order is matched against an order in another currency.  Not many people understand how this works, even if it is accurately explained in the ToS and FAQ.  There is extra profit to be made for those who do understand and know how to use it for one's own advantage.  E.g. internal arbitrage, pocketing up to 2.5% - 2 x trade fees under certain market conditions.  Most users are just not interested in those small details, and are just fine with trading BTC/USD all day long.  The information is out there, but there is a disparity among the users who understand it, those who don't and those who simply don't care.

I don't agree there will never be arbitrage opportunities due to third party action.  E.g. some US banks blocking transfers from MtGox even when acting as intermediate.  When the money flow is hindered for a large number of users due to third party actions, imbalances will arise.  Third parties can hinder the flow of information as well:

04:06 < x> MagicalTux: as a cusomer i think its time for a culture shift at your operation...more open communication with the community and the devels
04:07 <@MagicalTux> x, problem is that we still have some pending issues since early 2013 that hinder our communication efforts
04:30 < y> "some pending issues since early 2013 that hinder our communication efforts" translation: "we are under a gag order from US authorities"

I included the last quote even if it is speculation, but I think it is quite obvious by now that something like this is going on.  I assume this is the reason why all attempts of legal action against MtGox have failed as well.  The justice system can not force MtGox to do something which the government prevents them from doing.  The case would have to be raised against the government, not MtGox.

There will always be various information sources as well.  Some good, some bad, some ugly.  Some ignored by most due to the sheer volume and detail, and not forget all the deliberate attempts to mislead the market with false information and speculation.  IMHO the false information is the biggest problem here.  Regulators don't seem to care about people who manipulate the Bitcoin market by spreading lies.  In an open community like bitcoin there will always be sources of information which are open but which people don't connect directly to MtGox.  E.g. if you want to have updates look on how the work on the new transaction hash is progressing, including comments from MtGox and other exchanges, you should go to GitHub or follow the discussions among the developers in #bitcoin-dev and on the mailing lists.  The process is in the open, but it is not obvious to all that this information is important or even relevant.

[raskul]

Finaly some more information about/from mtgox and bitcoin foundation current moves : http://www.forbes.com/sites/leoking/2014/02/13/mt-gox-ceo-mark-karpeles-responds-to-widespread-bitcoin-criticism/

Here is a sample :

Mark Karpeles :
We have proposed a solution that would allow people sending bitcoins to track sent coins no matter what happens in terms of malleability (a solution that can be applied quickly and without breaking anything), and the Bitcoin developers are preparing ways to prevent modified transactions from being relayed by the network (which will take a lot of time and may break some bitcoin custom clients).

again, laying the boot into the devs and bitcoin network.
no word on the why's and how-to's regarding excessively delayed fiat withdrawals.
the man is a liability to himself.

[kano]

...
Other news which may influence how you plan your BTC purchases when the BTC withdrawal floodgates open:

11:57 <@SarahCoinBit> Diabolicus_Work I've had more requests to cancel fiat withdrawals in the last two days than i have in the last two months

...

This quote simply says that they are delaying support on purpose on most everything else.

The cancel requests have been the fastest support responses in a long time and yet there she is saying that she's getting a large number of them ...

[pedro82]

...
Other news which may influence how you plan your BTC purchases when the BTC withdrawal floodgates open:

11:57 <@SarahCoinBit> Diabolicus_Work I've had more requests to cancel fiat withdrawals in the last two days than i have in the last two months

...

This quote simply says that they are delaying support on purpose on most everything else.

The cancel requests have been the fastest support responses in a long time and yet there she is saying that she's getting a large number of them ...

But that should speed up fiat withdraw, whish is not happening   

[sturle]

We have proposed a solution that would allow people sending bitcoins to track sent coins no matter what happens in terms of malleability (a solution that can be applied quickly and without breaking anything), and the Bitcoin developers are preparing ways to prevent modified transactions from being relayed by the network (which will take a lot of time and may break some bitcoin custom clients).

again, laying the boot into the devs and bitcoin network.
no word on the why's and how-to's regarding excessively delayed fiat withdrawals.
the man is a liability to himself.

No, Mark is referring to this ongoing work.  You can verify the claim there if you wish.  All clients will have to be upgraded to enforce this behaviour.

[sturle]

...
Other news which may influence how you plan your BTC purchases when the BTC withdrawal floodgates open:

11:57 <@SarahCoinBit> Diabolicus_Work I've had more requests to cancel fiat withdrawals in the last two days than i have in the last two months

...

The cancel requests have been the fastest support responses in a long time and yet there she is saying that she's getting a large number of them ...

But that should speed up fiat withdraw, whish is not happening  

You won't notice the effect immediately, of course.

[raskul]

We have proposed a solution that would allow people sending bitcoins to track sent coins no matter what happens in terms of malleability (a solution that can be applied quickly and without breaking anything), and the Bitcoin developers are preparing ways to prevent modified transactions from being relayed by the network (which will take a lot of time and may break some bitcoin custom clients).

again, laying the boot into the devs and bitcoin network.
no word on the why's and how-to's regarding excessively delayed fiat withdrawals.
the man is a liability to himself.

No, Mark is referring to this ongoing work.  You can verify the claim there if you wish.  All clients will have to be upgraded to enforce this behaviour.

regardless, it was not necessary to include that type of wording. There are a range of phrases which may have been used to state that custom clients may require updating - post fix. This man has been blaming everyone but mt gox on the problems which mt gox are suffering, and this is just another snide comment. he is a liability.

[whave]

...
Other news which may influence how you plan your BTC purchases when the BTC withdrawal floodgates open:

11:57 <@SarahCoinBit> Diabolicus_Work I've had more requests to cancel fiat withdrawals in the last two days than i have in the last two months

...

This quote simply says that they are delaying support on purpose on most everything else.

The cancel requests have been the fastest support responses in a long time and yet there she is saying that she's getting a large number of them ...

But that should speed up fiat withdraw, whish is not happening   

I suppose most of the fiat withdrawals were requested after the BTC problems started to show up around the 29th-30th of Jan, and currently these are the transactions that are being cancelled.

Meaning, if you tried to withdraw your money before that, this "mass-cancel" won't really affect your position in the queue.

I withdrew my EUR on the 29th, 30th and 31st, then on the 3rd, 4th and 5th of Feb, so I'm expecting the first one to arrive around the 15th of March, then the rest in every 20 days.

[Asinine]

Is it just me or does Karpeles response sound an awful lot like, "I'm going to fuck with you until you fix my problems for me."?  This makes me question who is behind the DDoS...

[raskul]

Is it just me or does Karpeles response sound an awful lot like, "I'm going to fuck with you until you fix my problems for me."?  This makes me question who is behind the DDoS...

I wouldn't go as far to say he is compiling any vindictive physical attack. he's just an incompetent fool compiling vindictive verbal attacks, continually.

[sturle]

Is it just me or does Karpeles response sound an awful lot like, "I'm going to fuck with you until you fix my problems for me."?  This makes me question who is behind the DDoS...

It is just you.

[ImI]

Is it just me or does Karpeles response sound an awful lot like, "I'm going to fuck with you until you fix my problems for me."?  This makes me question who is behind the DDoS...

It is just you.

##

[pedro82]

 

Is it just me or does Karpeles response sound an awful lot like, "I'm going to fuck with you until you fix my problems for me."?  This makes me question who is behind the DDoS...

It is just you.

 Man is just you ... Karpeles is not vindictive, he is just the lazy fat kid type struggling to grow up ! give this poor kid some credit and he will end selling your identity to French mafia !