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abdulaziz07
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November 07, 2017, 09:43:11 AM |
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When can we expect distribution of XBRL airdrop?
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panorama
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November 07, 2017, 12:50:57 PM |
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Hello ecivfesrire and SemiSeriousInvestor,
Very good content and very impressed with the patience and effort in both of your communications. Even though I enjoy reading some of the funny stuff I like better to see good collaborative discovery process that benefits the whole community. I don't post much but read a great deal and soak up much. Maybe I should be SpongeBigglesSquarePants instead?
Anyway SemiSeriousInvestor - 5.2 "The exact value that is unlocked by the PPT will be announced in a future announcement." to possibly share my take on the PPT white paper section and most likely over-simplify the nature of the concept I have about it...
It seems possible the PPT "token" could have a reference value (poken exchange value) assigned to it for serving a function on the platform itself without necessarily translating that same value outside the system. Maybe the PPT could have a small/minor leverage advantage? This is just a guess but it would be possible (it's crypto after all) that pokens converted via PPT have a different translatable value outside the system but an advantage within when utilized for the purpose the platform is created for. Pokens obtained via fiat could potentially have a different conversion value back into PPT so as not to backdoor into PPT cheaper and still honor the equivalent fiat value at purchase. I think it's great that the platform is not closed to only PPT, and this gives me confidence in inherent future value of the token alone. Seriously though - this is just a guess. These guys are way smarter than me.
However, I believe the intent of Populous is to serve a function that mutually benefits both borrower/lender and the intent is for the main revenue to be generated from invoice factoring and not the speculation of the token. The tokens and platform are the mechanism for many little guys to realize the benefits from both directions for the sake of good business. I believe it will serve users even better the larger they can grow their lending ability if they are not whales at the start.
As for your other concern - 5.2.1 Buyback mechanism...
The way I take that is the people which envisioned this entire ecosystem have the vision to see the future of this platform. It strikes me that they already believe in it's potential and knew the capital it would take to ensure it's success. Additionally that they see the long term potential - not just a few years. They state upfront a unique business methodology of regaining the golden tickets from the open market (not destroying) which is the exact opposite of share dilution. If the PPT is on the open market nobody will know who is buying - or if that PPT will ever return to the market. I personally don't think the platform will suffer with less individual lenders though - and I bet the invoice factoring will grow steadily. There is probably a price at which I will sell mine - dunno yet - but not now. Without this platform I would never have the access to play in this sandbox. I am very eager to watch it evolve and learn as I do it.
Anyway guys, it was great to see good discussion going on. I hope my contribution is useful in some way.
This was a pretty good summary, but I'd add a couple of points: 1) According to the team, there's not a fixed price for PPT (relative to fiat or Pokens). It's been a while since I looked at the whitepaper, so I'm not sure if this is contradictory at all. I'm basing my comments on what the team says now since things may have evolved. To that point, the more your PPT increases in value, the more Pokens you should be able to buy. So you could buy $1,000 worth of PPT today and if it doubles in price, you'll be able to use the tokens to invest in $2,000 of invoices. This doesn't really answer your question about how PPT tokens derive value, but it's still an important point because it encourages people to hold on to their tokens. Also, the purpose of the buyback program is to reduce the number of tokens in circulation. PPT tokens have an advantage over fiat in the system, so there is real utility. As long as there are invoices to available to invest in, there should be demand for the tokens. Reducing the supply should increase the price per token. So, it's a combination of the supply of invoices and size of the liquidity pool that should drive value because that's what drives the utility. Now recall my earlier point that PPT value isn't tied to the value of fiat or tokens. Even if you pay twice as much per token as the last person, you're still able to invest at the value you bought in at. For example, let's say Person 1 (P1) buys PPT at $1.00 per token and Person 2 (P2) buys PPT at $2.00 per token. Each owns 1000 tokens. They will both be able to buy $2,000 worth of invoices. P1 is advantaged because he bought in earlier, but it doesn't come at a disadvantage to P2 who is still able to also buy $2,000 worth of invoices (the same amount he invested). It's not a zero sum game, but there are benefits to being an earlier investor. Again, this only works if there's enough of a supply of invoices, so you have to believe that the team can successfully attract invoice sellers. I hope that makes sense... |
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jooj
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November 07, 2017, 01:25:02 PM |
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When can we expect distribution of XBRL airdrop?
Is there any one received XBPL at his wallet yet,what is specified date for POPULOUS airdrop? |
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finvestor
Newbie
 Offline
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
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November 07, 2017, 02:06:05 PM |
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updated website:
"With the combination of extracted XBRL data and the Altman Z-Score formula we have not only bypassed the need to use an external credit reference agency, but have also gained a technological and financial edge over our competitors."
First of all, XBRL data is available to everyone with minimum programming skills to use data scraping. Second, external credit reference agency is needed for up-to-date financials and recent events. The data received from XBRL is already min. 6 or maximum 18 months old. How will you handle this issue?
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Virtuoso
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1002
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November 07, 2017, 02:21:38 PM |
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Populous is doing very great these days. The price increases steady since the new announcements on the ppt twitter chanel. This month will be very hot for all investors and supporters.
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SemiSeriousInvestor
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 114
Merit: 0
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November 07, 2017, 02:46:26 PM |
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Hello ecivfesrire and SemiSeriousInvestor,
Very good content and very impressed with the patience and effort in both of your communications. Even though I enjoy reading some of the funny stuff I like better to see good collaborative discovery process that benefits the whole community. I don't post much but read a great deal and soak up much. Maybe I should be SpongeBigglesSquarePants instead?
Anyway SemiSeriousInvestor - 5.2 "The exact value that is unlocked by the PPT will be announced in a future announcement." to possibly share my take on the PPT white paper section and most likely over-simplify the nature of the concept I have about it...
It seems possible the PPT "token" could have a reference value (poken exchange value) assigned to it for serving a function on the platform itself without necessarily translating that same value outside the system. Maybe the PPT could have a small/minor leverage advantage? This is just a guess but it would be possible (it's crypto after all) that pokens converted via PPT have a different translatable value outside the system but an advantage within when utilized for the purpose the platform is created for. Pokens obtained via fiat could potentially have a different conversion value back into PPT so as not to backdoor into PPT cheaper and still honor the equivalent fiat value at purchase. I think it's great that the platform is not closed to only PPT, and this gives me confidence in inherent future value of the token alone. Seriously though - this is just a guess. These guys are way smarter than me.
However, I believe the intent of Populous is to serve a function that mutually benefits both borrower/lender and the intent is for the main revenue to be generated from invoice factoring and not the speculation of the token. The tokens and platform are the mechanism for many little guys to realize the benefits from both directions for the sake of good business. I believe it will serve users even better the larger they can grow their lending ability if they are not whales at the start.
As for your other concern - 5.2.1 Buyback mechanism...
The way I take that is the people which envisioned this entire ecosystem have the vision to see the future of this platform. It strikes me that they already believe in it's potential and knew the capital it would take to ensure it's success. Additionally that they see the long term potential - not just a few years. They state upfront a unique business methodology of regaining the golden tickets from the open market (not destroying) which is the exact opposite of share dilution. If the PPT is on the open market nobody will know who is buying - or if that PPT will ever return to the market. I personally don't think the platform will suffer with less individual lenders though - and I bet the invoice factoring will grow steadily. There is probably a price at which I will sell mine - dunno yet - but not now. Without this platform I would never have the access to play in this sandbox. I am very eager to watch it evolve and learn as I do it.
Anyway guys, it was great to see good discussion going on. I hope my contribution is useful in some way.
This was a pretty good summary, but I'd add a couple of points: 1) According to the team, there's not a fixed price for PPT (relative to fiat or Pokens). It's been a while since I looked at the whitepaper, so I'm not sure if this is contradictory at all. I'm basing my comments on what the team says now since things may have evolved. To that point, the more your PPT increases in value, the more Pokens you should be able to buy. So you could buy $1,000 worth of PPT today and if it doubles in price, you'll be able to use the tokens to invest in $2,000 of invoices. This doesn't really answer your question about how PPT tokens derive value, but it's still an important point because it encourages people to hold on to their tokens. Also, the purpose of the buyback program is to reduce the number of tokens in circulation. PPT tokens have an advantage over fiat in the system, so there is real utility. As long as there are invoices to available to invest in, there should be demand for the tokens. Reducing the supply should increase the price per token. So, it's a combination of the supply of invoices and size of the liquidity pool that should drive value because that's what drives the utility. Now recall my earlier point that PPT value isn't tied to the value of fiat or tokens. Even if you pay twice as much per token as the last person, you're still able to invest at the value you bought in at. For example, let's say Person 1 (P1) buys PPT at $1.00 per token and Person 2 (P2) buys PPT at $2.00 per token. Each owns 1000 tokens. They will both be able to buy $2,000 worth of invoices. P1 is advantaged because he bought in earlier, but it doesn't come at a disadvantage to P2 who is still able to also buy $2,000 worth of invoices (the same amount he invested). It's not a zero sum game, but there are benefits to being an earlier investor. Again, this only works if there's enough of a supply of invoices, so you have to believe that the team can successfully attract invoice sellers. I hope that makes sense... What I am afraid of is if PPT just gets assign some arbitary conversion value, Then holding PPT is kind of dumb. FOr instance if Populous declares PPT has conversion value of 5x USD pokens, then what? Anyone that bought PPT below 1.50 is ok, anyone that bought above is screwed. ANd then after Populous declares the value of PPT, the PPT token is basically done. THere is no reason to hold it cause it can't go up more than the declared value. One is better off just holding Bitcoin and then parking it at Populous whenever one wants to earn passive income. Alot of people think PPT is some type of stock or equity and I thought that initially as well. But there is noone PPT ca act like stock the way it is structured. It is better with Populous was a public company and we just bought stock in Populous. Holding PPT seems like a gamble on what Populous will eventually declare the value to be. One example is the recent FUEL ICO. The team says they will sell the FUEL token on their platform for $1. It is currently trading at 3 cents. You cannot just assign some arbitrary value to a token and expect the market to go along. It has to be backed by something. So everyone that thinks when Populous becomes a Billion dollar company and PPT goes to say 100 might be in for a huge suprise because Populous already came out and declared the value of PPT |
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dishku
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1003
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November 07, 2017, 03:08:13 PM |
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When can we expect distribution of XBRL airdrop?
Is there any one received XBPL at his wallet yet,what is specified date for POPULOUS airdrop? I think distribution of that token not yet get started when dev will start doing this than we will get an update about that. We have to let sit our tokens into personal wallet to get rewarded in future. |
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panorama
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November 07, 2017, 04:23:00 PM |
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Hello ecivfesrire and SemiSeriousInvestor,
Very good content and very impressed with the patience and effort in both of your communications. Even though I enjoy reading some of the funny stuff I like better to see good collaborative discovery process that benefits the whole community. I don't post much but read a great deal and soak up much. Maybe I should be SpongeBigglesSquarePants instead?
Anyway SemiSeriousInvestor - 5.2 "The exact value that is unlocked by the PPT will be announced in a future announcement." to possibly share my take on the PPT white paper section and most likely over-simplify the nature of the concept I have about it...
It seems possible the PPT "token" could have a reference value (poken exchange value) assigned to it for serving a function on the platform itself without necessarily translating that same value outside the system. Maybe the PPT could have a small/minor leverage advantage? This is just a guess but it would be possible (it's crypto after all) that pokens converted via PPT have a different translatable value outside the system but an advantage within when utilized for the purpose the platform is created for. Pokens obtained via fiat could potentially have a different conversion value back into PPT so as not to backdoor into PPT cheaper and still honor the equivalent fiat value at purchase. I think it's great that the platform is not closed to only PPT, and this gives me confidence in inherent future value of the token alone. Seriously though - this is just a guess. These guys are way smarter than me.
However, I believe the intent of Populous is to serve a function that mutually benefits both borrower/lender and the intent is for the main revenue to be generated from invoice factoring and not the speculation of the token. The tokens and platform are the mechanism for many little guys to realize the benefits from both directions for the sake of good business. I believe it will serve users even better the larger they can grow their lending ability if they are not whales at the start.
As for your other concern - 5.2.1 Buyback mechanism...
The way I take that is the people which envisioned this entire ecosystem have the vision to see the future of this platform. It strikes me that they already believe in it's potential and knew the capital it would take to ensure it's success. Additionally that they see the long term potential - not just a few years. They state upfront a unique business methodology of regaining the golden tickets from the open market (not destroying) which is the exact opposite of share dilution. If the PPT is on the open market nobody will know who is buying - or if that PPT will ever return to the market. I personally don't think the platform will suffer with less individual lenders though - and I bet the invoice factoring will grow steadily. There is probably a price at which I will sell mine - dunno yet - but not now. Without this platform I would never have the access to play in this sandbox. I am very eager to watch it evolve and learn as I do it.
Anyway guys, it was great to see good discussion going on. I hope my contribution is useful in some way.
This was a pretty good summary, but I'd add a couple of points: 1) According to the team, there's not a fixed price for PPT (relative to fiat or Pokens). It's been a while since I looked at the whitepaper, so I'm not sure if this is contradictory at all. I'm basing my comments on what the team says now since things may have evolved. To that point, the more your PPT increases in value, the more Pokens you should be able to buy. So you could buy $1,000 worth of PPT today and if it doubles in price, you'll be able to use the tokens to invest in $2,000 of invoices. This doesn't really answer your question about how PPT tokens derive value, but it's still an important point because it encourages people to hold on to their tokens. Also, the purpose of the buyback program is to reduce the number of tokens in circulation. PPT tokens have an advantage over fiat in the system, so there is real utility. As long as there are invoices to available to invest in, there should be demand for the tokens. Reducing the supply should increase the price per token. So, it's a combination of the supply of invoices and size of the liquidity pool that should drive value because that's what drives the utility. Now recall my earlier point that PPT value isn't tied to the value of fiat or tokens. Even if you pay twice as much per token as the last person, you're still able to invest at the value you bought in at. For example, let's say Person 1 (P1) buys PPT at $1.00 per token and Person 2 (P2) buys PPT at $2.00 per token. Each owns 1000 tokens. They will both be able to buy $2,000 worth of invoices. P1 is advantaged because he bought in earlier, but it doesn't come at a disadvantage to P2 who is still able to also buy $2,000 worth of invoices (the same amount he invested). It's not a zero sum game, but there are benefits to being an earlier investor. Again, this only works if there's enough of a supply of invoices, so you have to believe that the team can successfully attract invoice sellers. I hope that makes sense... What I am afraid of is if PPT just gets assign some arbitary conversion value, Then holding PPT is kind of dumb. FOr instance if Populous declares PPT has conversion value of 5x USD pokens, then what? Anyone that bought PPT below 1.50 is ok, anyone that bought above is screwed. ANd then after Populous declares the value of PPT, the PPT token is basically done. THere is no reason to hold it cause it can't go up more than the declared value. One is better off just holding Bitcoin and then parking it at Populous whenever one wants to earn passive income. Alot of people think PPT is some type of stock or equity and I thought that initially as well. But there is noone PPT ca act like stock the way it is structured. It is better with Populous was a public company and we just bought stock in Populous. Holding PPT seems like a gamble on what Populous will eventually declare the value to be. One example is the recent FUEL ICO. The team says they will sell the FUEL token on their platform for $1. It is currently trading at 3 cents. You cannot just assign some arbitrary value to a token and expect the market to go along. It has to be backed by something. So everyone that thinks when Populous becomes a Billion dollar company and PPT goes to say 100 might be in for a huge suprise because Populous already came out and declared the value of PPT Yes, you're right. Again, I'm makng my decision to buy/hold based on what they've said post-ICO. They could decide to change their mind and say the PPT/Poken ratio will be a fixed number, but that would screw over all of their supporters as well as liquidity pool investors. They don't really have an incentive to screw us though. You made a point earlier that keeping the price low is to their advantage because they can buy tokens back at a lower price, but that's not really true. First, the entire point of the buyback program is to support/raise the PPT token price by taking 10% of their profits to burn tokens. If they wanted the price to be fixed, spending 10% of their profits to burn tokens is literally a waste of money. Second, they are spending 10% of their profits regardless. Whether that buys them 1,000 tokens or 1 million tokens is irrelevant because they are getting burned anyway. 10% is 10% regardless of token price. I acknowledge that the team could buy 100% of outstanding tokens more quickly at a lower price, but I'm willing to take the chance that they don't want to intentionally screw token holders. If their business is successful, which I think it will be, they've got a lot to lose by ruining their reputation. |
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bek77
Member
Offline
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
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November 07, 2017, 06:23:24 PM |
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Is the project as good as it does not take off the price?
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Chef Ramsay
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1001
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November 07, 2017, 06:36:56 PM |
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Reggie Middleton, CEO and founder of Veritaseum, gives a big shout out and credit to Populous and their business model in his interview yesterday w/ Mike B on his youtube channel. Last few mins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhr8sfF0uhg |
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topesis
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November 07, 2017, 07:07:11 PM |
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Is the project as good as it does not take off the price?
This project is very sound, just give the team time to develop their platform, once this is completed things will be very good for investors, as you can see the market cap is still low |
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abdulaziz07
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November 07, 2017, 07:09:13 PM |
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I was holding PPT on my MEW wallet from oct 31st..
will i be eligible for airdrop?
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arbitro
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November 07, 2017, 08:43:02 PM |
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Guys awesome news, just check BTCBusinessconsult latest vid, we're almost there, it's about to happen!   Bitconnect FALLING APART, Populous update PPT = AWESOME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lFuE7izv0U Good news everywhere  |
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harvw
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November 07, 2017, 09:37:22 PM |
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What was the ICO price and how much did it raise?
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The beginning of a new era.
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remoteknife
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 30
Merit: 0
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November 07, 2017, 09:59:38 PM |
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harvw
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November 07, 2017, 10:06:17 PM |
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Thanks a lot for this. Extremely useful! |
The beginning of a new era.
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azmojo
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November 07, 2017, 10:28:12 PM |
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Hello ecivfesrire and SemiSeriousInvestor,
Very good content and very impressed with the patience and effort in both of your communications. Even though I enjoy reading some of the funny stuff I like better to see good collaborative discovery process that benefits the whole community. I don't post much but read a great deal and soak up much. Maybe I should be SpongeBigglesSquarePants instead?
Anyway SemiSeriousInvestor - 5.2 "The exact value that is unlocked by the PPT will be announced in a future announcement." to possibly share my take on the PPT white paper section and most likely over-simplify the nature of the concept I have about it...
It seems possible the PPT "token" could have a reference value (poken exchange value) assigned to it for serving a function on the platform itself without necessarily translating that same value outside the system. Maybe the PPT could have a small/minor leverage advantage? This is just a guess but it would be possible (it's crypto after all) that pokens converted via PPT have a different translatable value outside the system but an advantage within when utilized for the purpose the platform is created for. Pokens obtained via fiat could potentially have a different conversion value back into PPT so as not to backdoor into PPT cheaper and still honor the equivalent fiat value at purchase. I think it's great that the platform is not closed to only PPT, and this gives me confidence in inherent future value of the token alone. Seriously though - this is just a guess. These guys are way smarter than me.
However, I believe the intent of Populous is to serve a function that mutually benefits both borrower/lender and the intent is for the main revenue to be generated from invoice factoring and not the speculation of the token. The tokens and platform are the mechanism for many little guys to realize the benefits from both directions for the sake of good business. I believe it will serve users even better the larger they can grow their lending ability if they are not whales at the start.
As for your other concern - 5.2.1 Buyback mechanism...
The way I take that is the people which envisioned this entire ecosystem have the vision to see the future of this platform. It strikes me that they already believe in it's potential and knew the capital it would take to ensure it's success. Additionally that they see the long term potential - not just a few years. They state upfront a unique business methodology of regaining the golden tickets from the open market (not destroying) which is the exact opposite of share dilution. If the PPT is on the open market nobody will know who is buying - or if that PPT will ever return to the market. I personally don't think the platform will suffer with less individual lenders though - and I bet the invoice factoring will grow steadily. There is probably a price at which I will sell mine - dunno yet - but not now. Without this platform I would never have the access to play in this sandbox. I am very eager to watch it evolve and learn as I do it.
Anyway guys, it was great to see good discussion going on. I hope my contribution is useful in some way.
This was a pretty good summary, but I'd add a couple of points: 1) According to the team, there's not a fixed price for PPT (relative to fiat or Pokens). It's been a while since I looked at the whitepaper, so I'm not sure if this is contradictory at all. I'm basing my comments on what the team says now since things may have evolved. To that point, the more your PPT increases in value, the more Pokens you should be able to buy. So you could buy $1,000 worth of PPT today and if it doubles in price, you'll be able to use the tokens to invest in $2,000 of invoices. This doesn't really answer your question about how PPT tokens derive value, but it's still an important point because it encourages people to hold on to their tokens. Also, the purpose of the buyback program is to reduce the number of tokens in circulation. PPT tokens have an advantage over fiat in the system, so there is real utility. As long as there are invoices to available to invest in, there should be demand for the tokens. Reducing the supply should increase the price per token. So, it's a combination of the supply of invoices and size of the liquidity pool that should drive value because that's what drives the utility. Now recall my earlier point that PPT value isn't tied to the value of fiat or tokens. Even if you pay twice as much per token as the last person, you're still able to invest at the value you bought in at. For example, let's say Person 1 (P1) buys PPT at $1.00 per token and Person 2 (P2) buys PPT at $2.00 per token. Each owns 1000 tokens. They will both be able to buy $2,000 worth of invoices. P1 is advantaged because he bought in earlier, but it doesn't come at a disadvantage to P2 who is still able to also buy $2,000 worth of invoices (the same amount he invested). It's not a zero sum game, but there are benefits to being an earlier investor. Again, this only works if there's enough of a supply of invoices, so you have to believe that the team can successfully attract invoice sellers. I hope that makes sense... What I am afraid of is if PPT just gets assign some arbitary conversion value, Then holding PPT is kind of dumb. FOr instance if Populous declares PPT has conversion value of 5x USD pokens, then what? Anyone that bought PPT below 1.50 is ok, anyone that bought above is screwed. ANd then after Populous declares the value of PPT, the PPT token is basically done. THere is no reason to hold it cause it can't go up more than the declared value. One is better off just holding Bitcoin and then parking it at Populous whenever one wants to earn passive income. Alot of people think PPT is some type of stock or equity and I thought that initially as well. But there is noone PPT ca act like stock the way it is structured. It is better with Populous was a public company and we just bought stock in Populous. Holding PPT seems like a gamble on what Populous will eventually declare the value to be. One example is the recent FUEL ICO. The team says they will sell the FUEL token on their platform for $1. It is currently trading at 3 cents. You cannot just assign some arbitrary value to a token and expect the market to go along. It has to be backed by something. So everyone that thinks when Populous becomes a Billion dollar company and PPT goes to say 100 might be in for a huge suprise because Populous already came out and declared the value of PPT Yes, you're right. Again, I'm makng my decision to buy/hold based on what they've said post-ICO. They could decide to change their mind and say the PPT/Poken ratio will be a fixed number, but that would screw over all of their supporters as well as liquidity pool investors. They don't really have an incentive to screw us though. You made a point earlier that keeping the price low is to their advantage because they can buy tokens back at a lower price, but that's not really true. First, the entire point of the buyback program is to support/raise the PPT token price by taking 10% of their profits to burn tokens. If they wanted the price to be fixed, spending 10% of their profits to burn tokens is literally a waste of money. Second, they are spending 10% of their profits regardless. Whether that buys them 1,000 tokens or 1 million tokens is irrelevant because they are getting burned anyway. 10% is 10% regardless of token price. I acknowledge that the team could buy 100% of outstanding tokens more quickly at a lower price, but I'm willing to take the chance that they don't want to intentionally screw token holders. If their business is successful, which I think it will be, they've got a lot to lose by ruining their reputation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though invoice interest was paid in PPT. There will be an established or accepted exchange value for PPT, I don't think it will be arbitrarily assigned. If not from a PPT-hosted exchange, it will probably come from a price oracle grabbing data from all (or most) exchanges. |
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SemiSeriousInvestor
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 114
Merit: 0
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November 07, 2017, 11:35:02 PM |
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Hello ecivfesrire and SemiSeriousInvestor,
Very good content and very impressed with the patience and effort in both of your communications. Even though I enjoy reading some of the funny stuff I like better to see good collaborative discovery process that benefits the whole community. I don't post much but read a great deal and soak up much. Maybe I should be SpongeBigglesSquarePants instead?
Anyway SemiSeriousInvestor - 5.2 "The exact value that is unlocked by the PPT will be announced in a future announcement." to possibly share my take on the PPT white paper section and most likely over-simplify the nature of the concept I have about it...
It seems possible the PPT "token" could have a reference value (poken exchange value) assigned to it for serving a function on the platform itself without necessarily translating that same value outside the system. Maybe the PPT could have a small/minor leverage advantage? This is just a guess but it would be possible (it's crypto after all) that pokens converted via PPT have a different translatable value outside the system but an advantage within when utilized for the purpose the platform is created for. Pokens obtained via fiat could potentially have a different conversion value back into PPT so as not to backdoor into PPT cheaper and still honor the equivalent fiat value at purchase. I think it's great that the platform is not closed to only PPT, and this gives me confidence in inherent future value of the token alone. Seriously though - this is just a guess. These guys are way smarter than me.
However, I believe the intent of Populous is to serve a function that mutually benefits both borrower/lender and the intent is for the main revenue to be generated from invoice factoring and not the speculation of the token. The tokens and platform are the mechanism for many little guys to realize the benefits from both directions for the sake of good business. I believe it will serve users even better the larger they can grow their lending ability if they are not whales at the start.
As for your other concern - 5.2.1 Buyback mechanism...
The way I take that is the people which envisioned this entire ecosystem have the vision to see the future of this platform. It strikes me that they already believe in it's potential and knew the capital it would take to ensure it's success. Additionally that they see the long term potential - not just a few years. They state upfront a unique business methodology of regaining the golden tickets from the open market (not destroying) which is the exact opposite of share dilution. If the PPT is on the open market nobody will know who is buying - or if that PPT will ever return to the market. I personally don't think the platform will suffer with less individual lenders though - and I bet the invoice factoring will grow steadily. There is probably a price at which I will sell mine - dunno yet - but not now. Without this platform I would never have the access to play in this sandbox. I am very eager to watch it evolve and learn as I do it.
Anyway guys, it was great to see good discussion going on. I hope my contribution is useful in some way.
This was a pretty good summary, but I'd add a couple of points: 1) According to the team, there's not a fixed price for PPT (relative to fiat or Pokens). It's been a while since I looked at the whitepaper, so I'm not sure if this is contradictory at all. I'm basing my comments on what the team says now since things may have evolved. To that point, the more your PPT increases in value, the more Pokens you should be able to buy. So you could buy $1,000 worth of PPT today and if it doubles in price, you'll be able to use the tokens to invest in $2,000 of invoices. This doesn't really answer your question about how PPT tokens derive value, but it's still an important point because it encourages people to hold on to their tokens. Also, the purpose of the buyback program is to reduce the number of tokens in circulation. PPT tokens have an advantage over fiat in the system, so there is real utility. As long as there are invoices to available to invest in, there should be demand for the tokens. Reducing the supply should increase the price per token. So, it's a combination of the supply of invoices and size of the liquidity pool that should drive value because that's what drives the utility. Now recall my earlier point that PPT value isn't tied to the value of fiat or tokens. Even if you pay twice as much per token as the last person, you're still able to invest at the value you bought in at. For example, let's say Person 1 (P1) buys PPT at $1.00 per token and Person 2 (P2) buys PPT at $2.00 per token. Each owns 1000 tokens. They will both be able to buy $2,000 worth of invoices. P1 is advantaged because he bought in earlier, but it doesn't come at a disadvantage to P2 who is still able to also buy $2,000 worth of invoices (the same amount he invested). It's not a zero sum game, but there are benefits to being an earlier investor. Again, this only works if there's enough of a supply of invoices, so you have to believe that the team can successfully attract invoice sellers. I hope that makes sense... What I am afraid of is if PPT just gets assign some arbitary conversion value, Then holding PPT is kind of dumb. FOr instance if Populous declares PPT has conversion value of 5x USD pokens, then what? Anyone that bought PPT below 1.50 is ok, anyone that bought above is screwed. ANd then after Populous declares the value of PPT, the PPT token is basically done. THere is no reason to hold it cause it can't go up more than the declared value. One is better off just holding Bitcoin and then parking it at Populous whenever one wants to earn passive income. Alot of people think PPT is some type of stock or equity and I thought that initially as well. But there is noone PPT ca act like stock the way it is structured. It is better with Populous was a public company and we just bought stock in Populous. Holding PPT seems like a gamble on what Populous will eventually declare the value to be. One example is the recent FUEL ICO. The team says they will sell the FUEL token on their platform for $1. It is currently trading at 3 cents. You cannot just assign some arbitrary value to a token and expect the market to go along. It has to be backed by something. So everyone that thinks when Populous becomes a Billion dollar company and PPT goes to say 100 might be in for a huge suprise because Populous already came out and declared the value of PPT Yes, you're right. Again, I'm makng my decision to buy/hold based on what they've said post-ICO. They could decide to change their mind and say the PPT/Poken ratio will be a fixed number, but that would screw over all of their supporters as well as liquidity pool investors. They don't really have an incentive to screw us though. You made a point earlier that keeping the price low is to their advantage because they can buy tokens back at a lower price, but that's not really true. First, the entire point of the buyback program is to support/raise the PPT token price by taking 10% of their profits to burn tokens. If they wanted the price to be fixed, spending 10% of their profits to burn tokens is literally a waste of money. Second, they are spending 10% of their profits regardless. Whether that buys them 1,000 tokens or 1 million tokens is irrelevant because they are getting burned anyway. 10% is 10% regardless of token price. I acknowledge that the team could buy 100% of outstanding tokens more quickly at a lower price, but I'm willing to take the chance that they don't want to intentionally screw token holders. If their business is successful, which I think it will be, they've got a lot to lose by ruining their reputation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though invoice interest was paid in PPT. There will be an established or accepted exchange value for PPT, I don't think it will be arbitrarily assigned. If not from a PPT-hosted exchange, it will probably come from a price oracle grabbing data from all (or most) exchanges. I'm going to hold onto what small PPT I have until there is some clarification to exactly what a PPT is and what it does. It would be unwise to buy large amounts of PPT and not even know what it is. One thing is for certain is PPT is not equity stock |
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panorama
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November 08, 2017, 12:38:56 AM |
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Hello ecivfesrire and SemiSeriousInvestor,
Very good content and very impressed with the patience and effort in both of your communications. Even though I enjoy reading some of the funny stuff I like better to see good collaborative discovery process that benefits the whole community. I don't post much but read a great deal and soak up much. Maybe I should be SpongeBigglesSquarePants instead?
Anyway SemiSeriousInvestor - 5.2 "The exact value that is unlocked by the PPT will be announced in a future announcement." to possibly share my take on the PPT white paper section and most likely over-simplify the nature of the concept I have about it...
It seems possible the PPT "token" could have a reference value (poken exchange value) assigned to it for serving a function on the platform itself without necessarily translating that same value outside the system. Maybe the PPT could have a small/minor leverage advantage? This is just a guess but it would be possible (it's crypto after all) that pokens converted via PPT have a different translatable value outside the system but an advantage within when utilized for the purpose the platform is created for. Pokens obtained via fiat could potentially have a different conversion value back into PPT so as not to backdoor into PPT cheaper and still honor the equivalent fiat value at purchase. I think it's great that the platform is not closed to only PPT, and this gives me confidence in inherent future value of the token alone. Seriously though - this is just a guess. These guys are way smarter than me.
However, I believe the intent of Populous is to serve a function that mutually benefits both borrower/lender and the intent is for the main revenue to be generated from invoice factoring and not the speculation of the token. The tokens and platform are the mechanism for many little guys to realize the benefits from both directions for the sake of good business. I believe it will serve users even better the larger they can grow their lending ability if they are not whales at the start.
As for your other concern - 5.2.1 Buyback mechanism...
The way I take that is the people which envisioned this entire ecosystem have the vision to see the future of this platform. It strikes me that they already believe in it's potential and knew the capital it would take to ensure it's success. Additionally that they see the long term potential - not just a few years. They state upfront a unique business methodology of regaining the golden tickets from the open market (not destroying) which is the exact opposite of share dilution. If the PPT is on the open market nobody will know who is buying - or if that PPT will ever return to the market. I personally don't think the platform will suffer with less individual lenders though - and I bet the invoice factoring will grow steadily. There is probably a price at which I will sell mine - dunno yet - but not now. Without this platform I would never have the access to play in this sandbox. I am very eager to watch it evolve and learn as I do it.
Anyway guys, it was great to see good discussion going on. I hope my contribution is useful in some way.
This was a pretty good summary, but I'd add a couple of points: 1) According to the team, there's not a fixed price for PPT (relative to fiat or Pokens). It's been a while since I looked at the whitepaper, so I'm not sure if this is contradictory at all. I'm basing my comments on what the team says now since things may have evolved. To that point, the more your PPT increases in value, the more Pokens you should be able to buy. So you could buy $1,000 worth of PPT today and if it doubles in price, you'll be able to use the tokens to invest in $2,000 of invoices. This doesn't really answer your question about how PPT tokens derive value, but it's still an important point because it encourages people to hold on to their tokens. Also, the purpose of the buyback program is to reduce the number of tokens in circulation. PPT tokens have an advantage over fiat in the system, so there is real utility. As long as there are invoices to available to invest in, there should be demand for the tokens. Reducing the supply should increase the price per token. So, it's a combination of the supply of invoices and size of the liquidity pool that should drive value because that's what drives the utility. Now recall my earlier point that PPT value isn't tied to the value of fiat or tokens. Even if you pay twice as much per token as the last person, you're still able to invest at the value you bought in at. For example, let's say Person 1 (P1) buys PPT at $1.00 per token and Person 2 (P2) buys PPT at $2.00 per token. Each owns 1000 tokens. They will both be able to buy $2,000 worth of invoices. P1 is advantaged because he bought in earlier, but it doesn't come at a disadvantage to P2 who is still able to also buy $2,000 worth of invoices (the same amount he invested). It's not a zero sum game, but there are benefits to being an earlier investor. Again, this only works if there's enough of a supply of invoices, so you have to believe that the team can successfully attract invoice sellers. I hope that makes sense... What I am afraid of is if PPT just gets assign some arbitary conversion value, Then holding PPT is kind of dumb. FOr instance if Populous declares PPT has conversion value of 5x USD pokens, then what? Anyone that bought PPT below 1.50 is ok, anyone that bought above is screwed. ANd then after Populous declares the value of PPT, the PPT token is basically done. THere is no reason to hold it cause it can't go up more than the declared value. One is better off just holding Bitcoin and then parking it at Populous whenever one wants to earn passive income. Alot of people think PPT is some type of stock or equity and I thought that initially as well. But there is noone PPT ca act like stock the way it is structured. It is better with Populous was a public company and we just bought stock in Populous. Holding PPT seems like a gamble on what Populous will eventually declare the value to be. One example is the recent FUEL ICO. The team says they will sell the FUEL token on their platform for $1. It is currently trading at 3 cents. You cannot just assign some arbitrary value to a token and expect the market to go along. It has to be backed by something. So everyone that thinks when Populous becomes a Billion dollar company and PPT goes to say 100 might be in for a huge suprise because Populous already came out and declared the value of PPT Yes, you're right. Again, I'm makng my decision to buy/hold based on what they've said post-ICO. They could decide to change their mind and say the PPT/Poken ratio will be a fixed number, but that would screw over all of their supporters as well as liquidity pool investors. They don't really have an incentive to screw us though. You made a point earlier that keeping the price low is to their advantage because they can buy tokens back at a lower price, but that's not really true. First, the entire point of the buyback program is to support/raise the PPT token price by taking 10% of their profits to burn tokens. If they wanted the price to be fixed, spending 10% of their profits to burn tokens is literally a waste of money. Second, they are spending 10% of their profits regardless. Whether that buys them 1,000 tokens or 1 million tokens is irrelevant because they are getting burned anyway. 10% is 10% regardless of token price. I acknowledge that the team could buy 100% of outstanding tokens more quickly at a lower price, but I'm willing to take the chance that they don't want to intentionally screw token holders. If their business is successful, which I think it will be, they've got a lot to lose by ruining their reputation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though invoice interest was paid in PPT. There will be an established or accepted exchange value for PPT, I don't think it will be arbitrarily assigned. If not from a PPT-hosted exchange, it will probably come from a price oracle grabbing data from all (or most) exchanges. It's paid in Pokens, not PPT. |
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