Fourth alt coin thread last three got oversized.

[Biodom]

My take is that between ethereum, zcash and dash, in my opinion, ethereum is most likely to appreciate short term ($100 is a given, IMHO), but zcash is most likely to appreciate mid-longer term. Therefore, among alts I prefer eth and zec.

Zcash market cap is around 100mil; compare with GNO (around $300 mil in issued tokens [4.4%] already).
If zcash triples, I would not be surprised one iota, but i like it's slower [in altcoin universe] appreciation.

[philipma1957]

Took profits today sold 1 coin

[Truthchanter]

Regarding Phil's calculations, seems more fair to me to assume dash stays the same price instead of doubling (because it could even drop instead of double).. And then factoring in the rise in dash difficulty once the miners go out.. I wonder if we can calculate the estimated rise in difficulty to have a better idea of projected profitability of every month once it ships

One benefit of the ibelink is that is is lower power consumption than the zec mining rig but that isn't that big of deal when you see the points Phil made

[jpoker272727]

I'm getting angry with my first GPU that I bought (it is a MSI 470), I have downloaded the Geth and it's take a lot to get synced but at the end it doesn't work, it gets corrupted or something like that.

philipma1957 can you please guide me where to start, I have seen many threads and sources from google but I'm getting stucked and unable to start mining ethereum.

Code:

WARN [04-30|18:17:33] Rolled back headers                      count=2035 header=819322->817287 fast=808297->808297 block=0->0
WARN [04-30|18:17:33] Synchronisation failed, retrying         err="state data download canceled (requested)"
WARN [04-30|18:17:48] Synchronisation failed, retrying         err="block download canceled (requested)"


WARN [04-30|19:56:06] Header broke chain ancestry              peer=18928015a469f362 number=2483485 hash=3c2f15…592ed8

WARN [04-30|20:44:22] Synchronisation failed, dropping peer    peer=7c752102f2d62133 err="retrieved ancestor is invalid"



ERROR[04-30|21:08:28] Failed to unregister sync peer           peer=8e3bd376b0c96af9 err="peer is not registered"
ERROR[04-30|21:08:28] Peer removal failed                      peer=8e3bd376b0c96af9 err="peer is not registered"


---Last three lines:

INFO [04-30|21:34:44] Imported new block receipts              count=427  elapsed=549.385ms number=3454803 hash=72ce3d…6b543f ignored=0
INFO [04-30|21:34:51] Imported new block headers               count=2048 elapsed=12.496s   number=3485318 hash=673d95…8a6b41 ignored=0
CRIT [04-30|21:53:22] Failed to store receipts                 err="leveldb/table: corruption on data-block (pos=1784684): checksum mismatch, want=0x5f44a063 got=0xcdde3904 [file=040429.ldb]"

[Akarabzie]

Its just to risky for me to go in on the iBelink GB.

There are huge drawbacks:
$5700 for equipment is a lot to me
Difficulty rise after everyone receives miners 3 months later (I know there will be those who get them early and really make out like bandits and jack up diff.)
Actual hardware reliability (hashrate tracking seems to go up and down from what i've seen and not holding 10.5 GH/s)
And the biggest for me: This could be vaporware!!!

The ACTUAL risks do not outweigh the POTENTIAL benefits for me. If the GB guys get these going in 90 days and make a fortune that is awesome for them, I really hope they do! I won't feel bad because i was left out, or scared to jump.

I will feel bad if I lose $5700 on a shit miner that may or may not even exist. These machines sound too good to be true and I'd rather make less money on something guaranteed than gamble on a machine I have seen nothing but a youtube video of.

What do you guys think are they the real deal?

[philipma1957]

Regarding Phil's calculations, seems more fair to me to assume dash stays the same price instead of doubling (because it could even drop instead of double).. And then factoring in the rise in dash difficulty once the miners go out.. I wonder if we can calculate the estimated rise in difficulty to have a better idea of projected profitability of every month once it ships

One benefit of the ibelink is that is is lower power consumption than the zec mining rig but that isn't that big of deal when you see the points Phil made

I gave either group buy great assumptions .

A 2x diff jump matched by a 2x price jump.

By purchasing 1/3 in dash. Or about 20 coins up front

And 2/3 in a Zec miner .  You get a benefit if coins go way up in the next month or in

1-90 days you buy them .   So if dash coins go to 300 40 days from now. You got 20 coins on hand
Cash 10 of them. You have 3000 in pocket.  And the Zec miner on hand .

Yeah i am sure there is some really weird way someone buying one of these X11 miners could do better
Then a Zec miner plus dash coin investment.  That would be solo mining dash and hitting a lot of blocks fast.

But banking on hitting atom of solo blocks is bad investment strategy .

[philipma1957]

I'm getting angry with my first GPU that I bought (it is a MSI 470), I have downloaded the Geth and it's take a lot to get synced but at the end it doesn't work, it gets corrupted or something like that.

philipma1957 can you please guide me where to start, I have seen many threads and sources from google but I'm getting stucked and unable to start mining ethereum.

Code:

WARN [04-30|18:17:33] Rolled back headers                      count=2035 header=819322->817287 fast=808297->808297 block=0->0
WARN [04-30|18:17:33] Synchronisation failed, retrying         err="state data download canceled (requested)"
WARN [04-30|18:17:48] Synchronisation failed, retrying         err="block download canceled (requested)"


WARN [04-30|19:56:06] Header broke chain ancestry              peer=18928015a469f362 number=2483485 hash=3c2f15…592ed8

WARN [04-30|20:44:22] Synchronisation failed, dropping peer    peer=7c752102f2d62133 err="retrieved ancestor is invalid"



ERROR[04-30|21:08:28] Failed to unregister sync peer           peer=8e3bd376b0c96af9 err="peer is not registered"
ERROR[04-30|21:08:28] Peer removal failed                      peer=8e3bd376b0c96af9 err="peer is not registered"


---Last three lines:

INFO [04-30|21:34:44] Imported new block receipts              count=427  elapsed=549.385ms number=3454803 hash=72ce3d…6b543f ignored=0
INFO [04-30|21:34:51] Imported new block headers               count=2048 elapsed=12.496s   number=3485318 hash=673d95…8a6b41 ignored=0
CRIT [04-30|21:53:22] Failed to store receipts                 err="leveldb/table: corruption on data-block (pos=1784684): checksum mismatch, want=0x5f44a063 got=0xcdde3904 [file=040429.ldb]"

Just point the miner at nicehash and auto convert to btc.

[graycatgrayhat]

philipma1957 Thanks for the input, switched out the CPU and RAM after some looking around.  Guessing the RAM wont get hot or anything so no need for the heat spreaders on the RAM?  SSD was not much more and for some extra storage in case I need to download a block chain or two. 

Now for the real hard hitting question what should I be looking at GPU wise for ROI and pure profit over the next few months to year or so Nivida 1060/1070/1080 or ti variants or AMD RX 470/480 or 570/580?  Also with those what cryptocurrencies would those GPU be best for?

[philipma1957]

philipma1957 Thanks for the input, switched out the CPU and RAM after some looking around.  Guessing the RAM wont get hot or anything so no need for the heat spreaders on the RAM?  SSD was not much more and for some extra storage in case I need to download a block chain or two. 

Now for the real hard hitting question what should I be looking at GPU wise for ROI and pure profit over the next few months to year or so Nivida 1060/1070/1080 or ti variants or AMD RX 470/480 or 570/580?  Also with those what cryptocurrencies would those GPU be best for?

hardest question is what cards to use.

I have not tried any rx 570's or 580's

why  I went through stages with my cards

first all rx 470's mostly all 4gb
ungraded to rx 480's all 6gb
now doing all nvidia 1080 ti's

my setup at the moment is

8 rx 480 8gb
2 nvidia 1070 8gb
1 nvidia 1080 8gb
7 nvidia  1080 ti 11gb.

about 8000h for zec

[VoskCoin]

philipma1957 Thanks for the input, switched out the CPU and RAM after some looking around.  Guessing the RAM wont get hot or anything so no need for the heat spreaders on the RAM?  SSD was not much more and for some extra storage in case I need to download a block chain or two. 

Now for the real hard hitting question what should I be looking at GPU wise for ROI and pure profit over the next few months to year or so Nivida 1060/1070/1080 or ti variants or AMD RX 470/480 or 570/580?  Also with those what cryptocurrencies would those GPU be best for?

hardest question is what cards to use.

I have not tried any rx 570's or 580's

why  I went through stages with my cards

first all rx 470's mostly all 4gb
ungraded to rx 480's all 6gb
now doing all nvidia 1080 ti's

my setup at the moment is

8 rx 480 8gb
2 nvidia 1070 8gb
1 nvidia 1080 8gb
7 nvidia  1080 ti 11gb.

about 8000h for zec

Why do you pursue zec over eth?

[shaninium]

I am doing  a purely mathematical comparison of the two deals from the two of them against  buying and building a zec ming farm with 1080ti's.

I know both guys fairly well and have like both of them. So I won't pass judgement on whether on person is better then the other.

But I can crunch the numbers  and see if spending 6k  to build a zec farm  works better then either deal.

I will present this in a separate thread. Later today.

This is exactly what I've done, I found that 2x ZEC Miners I could build would make the money back in the time it takes to even ship those miners. It's highly unlikely I'll buy one of them at this point, too much risk because if they do what bitmain did and turn them on after they receive them for testing, cause the hash/difficulty spike and THEN ship them out. Batch 1 owners would get screwed.

I spent part of last night and all day today crunching numbers.
kilo17 deal is cheaper then bittawm

bottom line both deals are bad.

purely on math .

I assume both deals are honest
I assume you get the gear 90 days to the day after payment.
I assume dash goes 2x price to match 2x diff increase.

lets say you do one from each cause you like both guys.  In my case a really do like both people.

easy numbers are 5700 + 6700 = 12400  average price would be 6200.

what can I do with 6200  right now today.

here is what I can do.  I can buy

six of these  at 676 each or 4056  I would get 1% off in the form of ebucks.  so net is 4016  use paypal six months to pay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZOTAC-ZT-P10810A-10P-GeForce-GTX-1080-Ti-Founders-Edition-11GB-GDDR5X-352-bit-/172587640269?

a mobo, risers, ssd ,ram ,cpu, psu = 384 high number on purpose   so  I spend 4400 after ebucks and have 6 months to pay this.

I also have 1800 left over So I buy dash 20 coins.

So I have a 6 card 1080 ti miner   doing about 4200h of zec pulling  say  1400 watts.  that is 34 kwatts a day or about 3.40 usd in power.  and earnings are about 33.33 usd

so fast forward 90 days.

I spent 306 in power and earned 3000  which is a net of 2694 .

if dash did 2x in price the 1800 or 20 coins is now  3600 a gain of 1800

the paypal bill is not due until 180 days.  it was for 4400

 4400
-2694
______
1706 still owe
3600 since dash did double in price
____
1894 ahead.  in 90 days if dash does double.

in all cases that dash rises in price  I make some money since  I purchased 1800 in  coins of the seed money of 6200.

at 90 days  with group buy I might have the working unit.

If dash dropped in price  and diff did 2x I am dead basically zero chance of break even.

If dash dropped in price  and I do the gpu build and some dash coins.  I have 20 coins even if they went from 90 to 45  that is still 900 usd.

and I still have the 6 card gpu rig.  that I don't have to pay any of the 4400 I owe for another 90 days.

So how can I advise anyone that either group buy makes sense.  when the 4400 gpu rig 1800 dash coin deal is far safer?  the answer is I have to say no to either group buy.  since the gpu rig + coin purchase truly seems to be better.  With income stream starting asap.  vs waiting 90 days for income to come in.

You have a good point, im just weary of zec for future profits in mining when eth switches to pos, every eth miner will start mining zec prob, then imagine zecs difficulty then come november, zec could rise in price cause of that difficulty, but thats no guarantee, at least proportionally  plus amd vegas coming out within two months, 2.5-4x the efficiency who knows what those cards will do to gpu coin difficulty, specs for hashing unknown yet.

[philipma1957]

You have a good point, im just weary of zec for future profits in mining when eth switches to pos, every eth miner will start mining zec prob, then imagine zecs difficulty then come november, zec could rise in price cause of that difficulty, but thats no guarantee, at least proportionally  plus amd vegas coming out within two months, 2.5-4x the efficiency who knows what those cards will do to gpu coin difficulty, specs for hashing unknown yet.

In the extremely unlikely case that ETH goes POS; there are lots of other Ethash coins to mine: primarily ETC. 

No one would likely switch to ZEC with amd rigs; they would follow whattomine directing them to ETC or EXP ect.

The existence of ETC is a major reason why ETH really can't go POS; not that I think it was likely in the first place.

lots of good points.

I onlt see them going to pos if an asic is built to mine them.

and they may simple increase their dag file to a large enough size to prevent that asic from mining them.

This is a good reason to buy 8gb amd or 8,9 11gb  nvidia cards

[citronick]

You have a good point, im just weary of zec for future profits in mining when eth switches to pos, every eth miner will start mining zec prob, then imagine zecs difficulty then come november, zec could rise in price cause of that difficulty, but thats no guarantee, at least proportionally  plus amd vegas coming out within two months, 2.5-4x the efficiency who knows what those cards will do to gpu coin difficulty, specs for hashing unknown yet.

In the extremely unlikely case that ETH goes POS; there are lots of other Ethash coins to mine: primarily ETC. 

No one would likely switch to ZEC with amd rigs; they would follow whattomine directing them to ETC or EXP ect.

The existence of ETC is a major reason why ETH really can't go POS; not that I think it was likely in the first place.

lots of good points.

I onlt see them going to pos if an asic is built to mine them.

and they may simple increase their dag file to a large enough size to prevent that asic from mining them.

This is a good reason to buy 8gb amd or 8,9 11gb  nvidia cards

with the 4gb limitation -- how many more years does ETC has assuming that they will remain POW...

[philipma1957]

You have a good point, im just weary of zec for future profits in mining when eth switches to pos, every eth miner will start mining zec prob, then imagine zecs difficulty then come november, zec could rise in price cause of that difficulty, but thats no guarantee, at least proportionally  plus amd vegas coming out within two months, 2.5-4x the efficiency who knows what those cards will do to gpu coin difficulty, specs for hashing unknown yet.

In the extremely unlikely case that ETH goes POS; there are lots of other Ethash coins to mine: primarily ETC.  

No one would likely switch to ZEC with amd rigs; they would follow whattomine directing them to ETC or EXP ect.

The existence of ETC is a major reason why ETH really can't go POS; not that I think it was likely in the first place.

lots of good points.

I onlt see them going to pos if an asic is built to mine them.

and they may simple increase their dag file to a large enough size to prevent that asic from mining them.

This is a good reason to buy 8gb amd or 8,9 11gb  nvidia cards

with the 4gb limitation -- how many more years does ETC has assuming that they will remain POW...

assuming they don't need to 2x the dag to foil asics
assuming they don't  crash in price
assuming growth goes onwards and upwards some time in 2018

if growth and price increase more then expected maybe late 2017?

[kopija]

The existence of ETC is a major reason why ETH really can't go POS; not that I think it was likely in the first place.

This two statements are intriguing, especially connection between ETH not being able to go POS because of ETC staying POW.
Could you elaborate?

[Eyedol-X]

I seem to be getting no where with this question.

Does anyone know if you can do 7 GPU's with Nvidia in a single mining rig? -- I can find someone with 6 but can't find anything about someone having 7.

[philipma1957]

I seem to be getting no where with this question.

Does anyone know if you can do 7 GPU's with Nvidia in a single mining rig? -- I can find someone with 6 but can't find anything about someone having 7.

I have not seen seven but this thread  :

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1707546.0

may hold the answer.

[citronick]

I seem to be getting no where with this question.

Does anyone know if you can do 7 GPU's with Nvidia in a single mining rig? -- I can find someone with 6 but can't find anything about someone having 7.

I had an opportunity to visit one of my customers deep learning labs during a few years ago.
They have a NVIDIA based tesla-k80 rig with 8 x k80 GPUs running Windows (looks like Win Enterprise)
Although this rig was for running parallel applications... it sure is an intriguing mining rig.

[philipma1957]

The existence of ETC is a major reason why ETH really can't go POS; not that I think it was likely in the first place.

This two statements are intriguing, especially connection between ETH not being able to go POS because of ETC staying POW.
Could you elaborate?

ETH going POS would be like Coke deciding they will no longer produce Coca-Cola Classic, but will only sell Coke zero.  The result would be that almost all Coke consumers would start drinking Pepsi or another cola.

Pure POS is a joke; at worst it is trusting a single entity, and at best trusting it is trusting a small network of entities; like how our banking system currently works.  There have been many 'magical' systems that employ complex graph theory and claim to have solved the two generals problem without needing POW.  All of these simply push the problems of POS to the edge of the system, and then claim they don't exist: knowing most people will never bother to learn; let alone understand, the underlying theory.

Fairy tales aside; POS only works when you have a centralized or hierarchical authority structure.  In the end sharding will be revealed to be dependent on a hierarchical authority structure hidden in the periphery of the system.  

ETH going POS would essentially be fully converting ETH into a digital bank token; a digital currency essentially no different from digital dollars.  At that point it would be a contract system upheld at the behest of the hierarchical authority structure: but this is what we have now, why do we need ETH for it?

A Cryptocurrency must have no centralized or hierarchical authority structure.  Its transactions must be immutable.  

If ETH was what it purports to be; it would be ETC.  ETH cannot return transaction immutability without validating ETC.  The only path for ETH is to continue to promise grand visions of a magical POS forever; hardforking to avoid the problem at hand whenever needed.

I seem to be getting no where with this question.

Does anyone know if you can do 7 GPU's with Nvidia in a single mining rig? -- I can find someone with 6 but can't find anything about someone having 7.

It is easier to get 7+ gpu rigs working with lower ram cards.  Getting 7x 8gb or even 7x 6gb cards on one system is not the same as getting 7x 4gb.  Later today I'll see if I can get 7x 1050ti (4gb) to work.

I bolded the most import thing to understand about POS.

Basically  it is interest on a bond or interest in a bank.

Right now worldwide  all bank and all bond interest is terrible.  Well under 5%

Actually in many places bank interest on  account is well under 2%.  Yeah it is insured and "safe" but it sucks.

POS  is basically a variation  of bank account or bond account interest.  With one exception it is not insured by the country the coin is in.

So How can they pay you  say 6% on your coins and not go broke?  I personally think they can't do it.

I think eth will remain pow.    and the backing it has is the gear that mines it.

this is why I prefer gpu based/backed coins.
over asic backed coins.

I ask you would you rather trust AMD,NVIDIA,INTEL,ASUS,EVGA,MSI,Biostar,Asrock,Gigabyte,Seasonic ,Corsair,Antec,Rosewill. And many more real hardware companies.

or Bitmain, Bitfury, Avalon, Baikal   as the backers of your coins.

Basically  this is what backs your coins up for POW the gear mining it.

[Biodom]

@fullzero is probably right and POS is not a good scheme (most likely), but I would like someone try and see what happens just for a sake that all possibilities are investigated.
You will still need a good computer and reliable connection to participate, so computing is involved, it is not exactly a bank account.

Regarding numbers, I think that they aim at 1-2% yearly coin addition (eth). This comes from not every coin participating in POS. If such thing happens soon, ethereum would actually have lower current inflation rate in comparison with bitcoin. Participating coins would be paid something around 5%, more or less. Theoretically, you can POS-mine with CPU and POW mine with GPU, so why not?

Finally, Ethereum founders ALWAYS maintained that ethereum would eventually go POS, so miners should have been prepared for a transition.