VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD

[azmojo]

I think etherdelta is quite complicated to use. Are there any other exchanges planned in the future?

VERI plans to be on all exchanges that will accept it.

[davs]

Reggie can you comment on new SEC report and how does it affect, if at all, VERI token?

[azmojo]

Reggie can you comment on new SEC report and how does it affect, if at all, VERI token?

The SEC does not regulate software.

[StephenCurry333]

$157.79 (-21.15%)
0.06221930 BTC (-14.30%)
0.79059400 ETH (-11.32%)
Veritaseum token is too cheap, i think it's the best time to bought some

[davs]

Reggie can you comment on new SEC report and how does it affect, if at all, VERI token?

The SEC does not regulate software.

Not yet, but they're planning to...

https://www.coindesk.com/securities-exchange-commission-us-securities-laws-may-apply-token-sales/

[toknormal]

Reggie can you comment on new SEC report and how does it affect, if at all, VERI token?

No need for Reggie to comment. It's there in black & white.



Furthermore...



In other words, they think the practice of conjuring up an arbitrary number of worthless tokens and using them to capitalise a corporate entity while retaining 100% of the equity in that entity, may be slightly "dodgy".

See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887061.msg20324350#msg20324350.

[toknormal]

Why have regulators become interested ?

Because it isn't about the tokens. It's about the companies that issue them. The tokens are worthless. But the issuers are immediately high value corporate assets. How ?

Because, normally when someone invests in your company you have to give them a share in the equity of that company. Token ICOs are a way to circumvent that protocol whereby, the issuer can capitalise a corporate entity while retaining 100% equity.

Also, the argument that tokens are somehow "not a security" is put to bed here by Simon Dixon. He's talking here about Ethereum itself, 6 months ago, but the principle applies even more specifically to ICO meta token issuances by known corporate entities for specific market sectors.

[azmojo]

In other words, they think the practice of conjuring up an arbitrary number of worthless tokens and using them to capitalise a corporate entity while retaining 100% of the equity in that entity, may be slightly "dodgy".

See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887061.msg20324350#msg20324350.

Good thing Reggie didn't do this then isn't it?

[toknormal]

Good thing Reggie didn't do this then isn't it?

The specific definition of "worthless" in this case is "unbacked". i.e. the capital contributed by investors to purchase tokens goes to back the shares of the company that issued them, not the tokens themselves.

Contrary to your assertion, "Reggie" did in fact deploy this capitalisation model.

[azmojo]

Good thing Reggie didn't do this then isn't it?

The specific definition of "worthless" in this case is "unbacked". i.e. the capital contributed by investors to purchase tokens goes to back the shares of the company that issued them, not the tokens themselves.

Contrary to your assertion, "Reggie" did in fact deploy this capitalisation model.

He did not. Token holders have no voting rights and will not receive any profits. Token holders have rights to software.
Microsoft is not selling me equity when I buy their Windows operating system.

[toknormal]

He did not. Token holders have no voting rights and will not receive any profits. Token holders have rights to software.
Microsoft is not selling me equity when I buy their Windows operating system.

But Microsoft is selling you a useful product.

Reggie is not.

[azmojo]

He did not. Token holders have no voting rights and will not receive any profits. Token holders have rights to software.
Microsoft is not selling me equity when I buy their Windows operating system.

But Microsoft is selling you a useful product.

Reggie is not.

Even if it is useless and I'm not saying it is, it is not illegal nor is there regulation for the sale of products that you consider to be useless.

[Mimar]

hello veritaseum community.

Emin Gün @el33th4xor

 Veritaseum just went from traditional ICO scam to theft. I guess that's a fitting end to a project that would never be able to deliver.

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/889575940702994434

Whats your opinion?

[azmojo]

hello veritaseum community.

Emin Gün @el33th4xor

 Veritaseum just went from traditional ICO scam to theft. I guess that's a fitting end to a project that would never be able to deliver.

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/889575940702994434

Whats your opinion?

FUD.
Every Bitcointalk coin thread has numerous "scam" accusations. He'll have to do better than that.

[toknormal]

Even if it is useless and I'm not saying it is, it is not illegal or is there regulation for the sale of useless products.

It's not a question of legality, it's a question of commercial viability.

Mined cryptocurrencies perform a monetary function "out of the box" which is that they implement the archetype of a bearer token or "bearer instrument" on an electronic network. You can verify and make use of that monentary function the moment you purchase it, just as you can verify and make use of a copy of Microsoft Windows the moment you purchase it.

On the other hand, a token that is generated arbitrarily by an interested commercial party, that has no software function in its own right nor any monetary function other than its resale value based on a promotional concept directed at a market of a tiny subset of a single wallet.....is of limited market viability and almost 100% risk as far as new investors are concerned.

[btsfreak]

hello veritaseum community.

Emin Gün @el33th4xor

 Veritaseum just went from traditional ICO scam to theft. I guess that's a fitting end to a project that would never be able to deliver.

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/889575940702994434

Whats your opinion?

Although all of those a pure speculations, it would be a way to withdraw some of that billion dollar mountain Reggie is sitting on without anyone being able to trace it. And as long as the majority of followers think like paulmaritz, it would take a couple of billion dollar thefts before anyone would start thinking.
Will be interesting to see what Reggie will really do in the near future to unvocer this incident.

[PokerStein1]

I hope Veritaseum will rise and shine again.

[azmojo]

Even if it is useless and I'm not saying it is, it is not illegal or is there regulation for the sale of useless products.

It's not a question of legality, it's a question of commercial viability.

Mined cryptocurrencies perform a monetary function "out of the box" which is that they implement the archetype of a bearer token or "bearer instrument" on an electronic network. You can verify and make use of that monentary function the moment you purchase it, just as you can verify and make use of a copy of Microsoft Windows the moment you purchase it.

On the other hand, a token that is generated arbitrarily by an interested commercial party, that has no software function in its own right nor any monetary function other than its resale value based on a promotional concept directed at a market of a tiny subset of a single wallet.....is of limited market viability and almost 100% risk as far as new investors are concerned.

It's called a software license and while it doesn't have any specific function it most certainly has value. Just because you obtain a copy of a CD that has Microsoft Windows on it does not mean that you are legally entitled to use the software. I admit in this case it is license for software that doesn't exist yet, but that is no different than buying a pre-sale of a new software release. Additionally, the VERI tokens are accepted as payment for research reports. So while *you* might not find them that useful, that doesn't make them worthless.

[azmojo]

I hope Veritaseum will rise and shine again.

Did it stop shining?
The theft actually probably helped VERI long term as it has produced a lot of marketing and awareness.

[estenity]

Reggie can you comment on new SEC report and how does it affect, if at all, VERI token?

The SEC does not regulate software.

yes it is quite a bombshell....
"ICO should be regulated as IPO"...
and the model of THE DAO put in as an exemple.
more discussion to come.