When will Religions die?

[Moloch]

Religion will never die just because alternative though like secularism has become popular nowadays. Religion still in place as long as religion institution keep continue to serve people. And new generation will come to strong religion institution.

You're so wrong... young people are smarter than they used to be... they know how to google, and understand the bible and religions are bullshit

Young people are by far less religious than older people

Religion is dying

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[CoinCube]

...you choose to lie, to obfuscate and to make false claims...

Bullshit!
Don't project your lying behavior onto me AFTER I JUST called you out for it!
If I have ever lied or made a false claim, quote it now
I only ever speak the truth

Ok I don't have to go very far just a couple of posts up. See the underlined claim.

...
Atheists, by far, are better people than christians
...
Christians make up 80%+ of the prison population in America... atheists 0.2%
...
Christian priests, the leaders of the religion... are a bunch of homosexual child rapists
...
I've argued all these points in your other thread already... I have no more time to waste on you
...

This claim is untrue. The only thread of mine you have posted in is the Health and Religion thread.
While you have posted in that thread debating the relationship between health and religion you have not posted any discussion about the "points" you claim to have argued specifically the Health and Religion thread contains no discussion from you about.

1) Atheist being better people then Christians
2) The self reported religion of prisoners.
3) Child abuse by Catholic Priests and the money spent defending those priests.
4) Any discussion of clerical celibacy.

Thus the claim is false

[CoinCube]

Religion is dying

Before you write the epitaph of religion you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that the demographics heavily favor the religious.

[kpcian]

religion has been created for the human being, religion will last till the human being is alive. religion is the pillar of the civilization so nobody should not deny the contribution of religion regarding civilization. except for religion how people could find the way of leading a life? so religion will not die until the civilization will be dead...

[Moloch]

You're a fucking idiot troll... I've argued all these points in your other thread already... I have no more time to waste on you

You refuse to accept facts, and believe in your own little fantasy world like BADlogic... Nobody can argue with someone who doesn't accept facts and evidence when presented

Grow up, stop believing in bullshit fairy tales, stop spreading bullshit propaganda, and maybe we can have a rational conversation... until then, fuck off

Stop trying to derail this thread off topic... it's not about me or you or atheists... its about RELIGIONS

...you choose to lie, to obfuscate and to make false claims...

Bullshit!

Don't project your lying behavior onto me AFTER I JUST called you out for it!

If I have ever lied or made a false claim, quote it now

I only ever speak the truth

I present facts and evidence, not false claims...

I don't argue with you because you don't present facts... you speculate... a lot of, "what if"... a lot of, "I don't believe your statistics because I think people might lie about their religion to get better treatment in prison"... do you have ANY evidence of that?  Or is that just another false claim?

Do you have ANY evidence that christian prisoners are treated better than atheist prisoners?  Do you have any facts and evidence at all, or just bullshit you pulled out of your ass?

I presented the fact that 80%+ of prisoners are Christian and 0.2% are Atheist... you claim that statistic is wrong... prove it!... show me a single fact that would corroborate your claim

You're a goddamn moron... STOP DERAILING THIS THREAD

(lies)

We've had this argument before... I presented the fact that atheists are less likely to be criminals than christians... you rejected the evidence in lieu of your preconceived notion that christians must be better people than atheists... because... well, no because... you didn't present an actual reason or evidence... just a claim that the Federal Bureau of Prisons must be wrong, and you are right... then proceed to unload 5+ more lies/propaganda for me to debunk... not gonna do it... wasting your/my time

We had this argument at least twice now... stop lying

I present evidence, you reject it and make false claims without backing anything up with a source, link, scientific study... it's just nonsense... I don't have time for your bullshit... I really don't... I'm done responding to your stupid nonsense

If you want an argument... present a case, link sources, and maybe I'll read it (you have been on ignore for 2 years, occasionally i click hide/show post to see what you're blathering about)

Stop trolling, stop derailing this thread

[Moloch]

Religion is dying

Before you write the epitaph of religion you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that the demographics heavily favor the religious.

Having more children doesn't mean shit if those children become Atheists, now does it?

If Christians are out-breeding Atheists as you claim, why is there a HUGE rise in Atheism lately?  Can you explain?

Your propaganda is so easily debunked a child could do it... hell, national geographic debunked your nonsense:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/04/160422-atheism-agnostic-secular-nones-rising-religion/

[CoinCube]

We've had this argument before... I presented the fact that atheists are less likely to be criminals than christians... you rejected the evidence in lieu of your preconceived notion that christians must be better people than atheists... because... well, no because... you didn't present an actual reason or evidence... just a claim that the Federal Bureau of Prisons must be wrong, and you are right... then proceed to unload 5+ more lies/propaganda for me to debunk... not gonna do it... wasting your/my time

We had this argument at least twice now... stop lying

I present evidence, you reject it and make false claims without backing anything up with a source, link, scientific study... it's just nonsense... I don't have time for your bullshit... I really don't... I'm done responding to your stupid nonsense

If you want an argument... present a case, link sources, and maybe I'll read it (you have been on ignore for 2 years, occasionally i click hide/show post to see what you're blathering about)

Stop trolling, stop derailing this thread

Moloch you really are quite entertaining.

Moloch "SHOW ME WHERE I LIED"
CoinCube (Quotes provably false statement from Moloch)
Moloch "I AM NOT GOING TO RESPOND TO YOU... YOU LIAR YOU LETS TALK ABOUT PRISONERS"

Ok Moloch we can talk about prisoners. I did not actually post any evidence that disproves your claims about atheists in prisons. I only pointed out that your explanation is not the only one that could explain the data.

You provided data that prisoners are less likely to self report as atheists then members of the general population. About 10 times less likely if my brief google search on the topic was accurate.

Three possibilities that explain this data spring to mind:

1) Atheists commit less crimes then then general population and thus may be less likely to end up in prison
2) Prisoners are lying about their religious status
3) The data is bad

The data comes from the government and probably is not bad so #3 seems unlikely.

#1 May be true. I discussed in the Health and Religion thread that above average IQ may be correlated with atheism as it makes individuals more prone to question their upbringing. If this correlation is a real one then atheists may be more adapt at avoiding prison due to higher average IQ.

#2 May also be true. One of the major criteria parole boards consider is whether or not a prisoner is remorseful when deciding whether to allow early release or otherwise ameliorate the terms of the sentence for serious crimes. Prisoners may have self-interested reasons to "find God" when attempting to build a case for parole.

Probably the reality is a combination of the two. If you really want to look at the effect of religion you need to control for other variables including poverty, education levels and IQ.

Since you claim to like data here is some data highlighting the protective effect of religion.

Race and the Religious Contexts of Violence: Linking Religion and White, Black, and Latino Violent Crime.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24976649/

Research has demonstrated that concentrated disadvantage and other measures are strongly associated with aggregate-level rates of violence, including across racial and ethnic groups. Less studied is the impact of cultural factors, including religious contextual measures... Results suggest that (1) religious contextual measures have significant crime-reducing associations with violence, (2) these associations are race/ethnic-specific, and (3) religious contextual measures moderate the criminogenic association between disadvantage and violence for Blacks.

Race/Ethnicity, Religious Involvement, and Domestic Violence
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1077801207308259

The authors explored the relationship between religious involvement and intimate partner violence... They found that: (a) religious involvement is correlated with reduced levels of domestic violence... this protective effect is stronger for African American men and women and for Hispanic men, groups that, for a variety of reasons, experience elevated risk for this type of violence.

Alcoholism Risk Moderation by a Socio-Religious Dimension
http://www.jsad.com/doi/abs/10.15288/jsad.2007.68.912

Results: Findings indicated that (1) parental alcohol history robustly predicted increased offspring alcohol-dependence symptoms, (2) religious rearing appeared protective (offspring exhibited fewer alcohol-dependence symptoms), (3) religious differentiation accounted for most of the protective effect, (4) other religious variables did not account for the differentiation effect, and (5) black religious adolescents were more frequently raised with differentiating affiliations and exhibited greater protective effects.

[CoinCube]

Having more children doesn't mean shit if those children become Atheists, now does it?

If Christians are out-breeding Atheists as you claim, why is there a HUGE rise in Atheism lately?  Can you explain?

Your propaganda is so easily debunked a child could do it... hell, national geographic debunked your nonsense:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/04/160422-atheism-agnostic-secular-nones-rising-religion/

Okurkabinladin wrote up a nice reply to this National Geographic article. I cannot articulate this issue better then he did.

Time already tells,

we have reached high mark of secularization and witness tide turning back.

Kaufmann addressed all those points of National Geographic article and more  

"As Arthur Brooks of Syracuse University recently wrote in the Wall Street Journal, “if you picked 100 unrelated politically liberal adults at random, you would find that they had, between them, 147 children. If you picked 100 conservatives, you would find 208 kids. That’s a ‘fertility gap’ of 41 per cent. Given that about 80 per cent of people with an identifiable party preference grow up to vote the same way as their parents, this gap translates into lots more little Republicans than little Democrats to vote in future elections."

Yes, from secular point of view you can argue, that non-believers can through apostacy of believers postpone their demographic demise by cannibalizing existing denominations. As has happened in eastern Europe during communism. But you wont solve fundamental problem of self replacement through fertility and you also lack any sort of fail safe (if we discount state terror) to stop returning individuals to their respective faiths.

I am that I am. I chose.

My return to God from nihilistic positions, that engulfed the West like a cancer took several years, Stats. And it has to some degree purely rational basis. I witnessed time and time again "scientists", who tried to understand desert by counting every single stone in it. It was not problem of the methodology, but of their choices, of their resignation on any non-materialistic argument. Without faith in what you do, all your work loses purpose besides feeding you. Degrading you in process from human being created in His image to something more akin to beast with large cranial capacity.

Faith forms culture, culture forms civilization. Civilization gives a Man purpose. When the faith dies, so does the culture and when culture is replaced civilization ends. Then men start to die. - Patrick Buchanan

Even atheist or rather agnostic greatly benefits from moral compass of religion and faith, as it provides for social stability, hope and drive. Giving entire culture what could be described as "soul". Marxists like Fromm and Freud understood this, as did scientists like Darwin and Newton.

I come from the most agnostic, godless place on planet, Stats. And I have witnessed how the place, without faith that formed its culture for the past millenia, slowly turned to Animals farm. Youngest being the hardest hit. Every generation in western Europe is now by full third (!) smaller than the previous one despite peace and welfare and health care. As I saw with my compatriots at foreign owned factories, women sell themselves to highest bidder, while men spend all their income on gambling and paying back high interest loans. Sounds almost like Bitcointalk, right? They dont do it for any purpose, but to feed themselves.

From industrial heart of Europe, into place full of aging, fearful corporate slaves, that wait for highest bidder. Fukuyama was indeed right, his "Last men" cannot be fought on battlefield by "barbarians". However, these "Last men" that I turned my back to also fail to do most most basic of things, that Darwin demands of victors in evolutionary race. Offspring. Because they have only interests, not beliefs. As did Greco-Romans before their demise.

Thats one of the points, why I personally chose to become "born again". I have grown up among secular liberals, saw their fashionable cults masquerading pointless materialism. And saw it for what it is. Nails to the coffin of our culture. I would hate the sight of my children as the "Last men".

If secular liberalism has any future, than why its adherents arent even able to replenish their own numbers? I already mentioned, that sir Darwin was anglican, yes? Well, atheists love to turn to him as a reference aswell. Will you? For a materialistic proof, friend.



Stats, you can look at the following as a list of developed, secular countries. Or as a graveyeard of their respective cultures and tribes. It is your choice. Guess, where is my homeland on the list? The very existence of these facts disprove that you can build anything that survives you on reason alone. It is against human nature. And therefore "science" aswell.

[Moloch]

I'm not going to waste too much time with your bullshit

You didn't even bother to write a response, just copy pasted some bullshit from another guy who did zero research and just pulled shit out of his ass like you do

You cherry pick "secular" countries... you literally left all the most secular ones off your list... Where is Sweden, Norway, Japan, Switzerland, etc, etc, etc?

You are simply posting propaganda... this is not an argument or a debate... it's pure propaganda... there is no other word for it... it's bullshit... this is not something worth wasting my time debating... it's just stupid nonsense... there are zero facts presented, just nonsense

It has NOTHING to do with the thread topic... I've already warned you several times to stop derailing this thread with your personal vendetta... I'm going to report your bullshit to the mods

[inthelongrun]

It dies with humanity, do you get my point? There's no end to religion for as long as humans still exist. Humans need religion. Humans need some form of assurance, may it be true or false, that only religion can give.

I don't know whether my own one is real or not. I am jumping into it because my entire family and relatives are into it.

[ridery99]

DOES CHRISTIAN = DUMB?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORK6ocqr7nA

[HyunBin]

I dont think religion will die. Religion is the relationship to the one who created us. Until there is someone who has faith or believe in God there is religion.

[joebrook]

Religion will never die just because alternative though like secularism has become popular nowadays. Religion still in place as long as religion institution keep continue to serve people. And new generation will come to strong religion institution.

There are places in this world where the people there are very much dedicated to their religion, Muslims as an example can never and will never let go of their beliefs.

[CoinCube]

...
You cherry pick "secular" countries... you literally left all the most secular ones off your list... Where is Sweden, Norway, Japan, Switzerland, etc, etc, etc?

...

Japan is on the list above. Norway and Switzerland are not but they also have below replacement fertility including them would change nothing.

[CoinCube]

...

It has NOTHING to do with the thread topic... I've already warned you several times to stop derailing this thread with your personal vendetta... I'm going to report your bullshit to the mods

 

Sometimes I feel sorry for the mods. The topic of this thread is when will Religions die?

The simple answer is that they never will the demographics heavily favor the religious and apostasy is self limiting.

I have posted data to this effect above. You challenged with your National Geographic article. Okurkabinladin posted a very nice counter to that article recently so I decided to copy that here.

All of this is very much on topic.

I am sorry challenging your biases so upsets you.

[ankit10]

I agree with first reply on this thread ( first line). Because most of all religion teach human beings about peace not to fight. There are some people who are using religion to grow there wealth and their image.

I totally disagree with " religion will end".  Because I believe god has created religions not humans. There are many religion which are thousands of year old.

[Daniel91]

I dont think religion will die. Religion is the relationship to the one who created us. Until there is someone who has faith or believe in God there is religion.

I don't think so.
When you read Bible, you see that first people, Adam and Eve, before Fall, didn't need religion.
They could communicate and live with God directly.
Since the fall, we lost our connections with God.
Because of it, we need religion in order to re connect with God.
We need help in order to find God again.
When new Heaven, new Jerusalem, comes down on the earth, we will be united with God again and religion will not be necessary any more.

[Togie]

religion will never die unless people lose the faith.

[keeee]

Religions made a lot of damage to human beings and our world in general. I'm not talking only about Islam, but every kind of religion, more or less, caused lots of problems.

I'm sure they will end. They won't last forever. But how will they end?

Which could the scenario that leads to their disappearance?

First of all I am agree to your statement. Religion could Die!

 Logically speaking, Religion is always accompanied in one's life, even you do not have God that is also a religion.

If you will understand my statement more deeper, you can conclude that if there is No human existing, it is the only time where religion finally die.

[JRonal12]

No, I mean it's been around for longer than any other documented organized thought to my knowledge. Some of the olders books in the wolrd are religious texts! It's crazy when you think about how old some of those text are truly.