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Author Topic: Health and Religion  (Read 191106 times)
CoinCube
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February 22, 2016, 08:42:22 PM
Last edit: August 05, 2019, 05:06:20 AM by CoinCube
 #1

Health and Religion

Religion and IQ

High IQ is usually regarded by those that possess it as an unmitigated good. Those gifted with superior intellect are not only smarter, they are statistically more likely to be taller, healthier, and more athletic than average. In his 1920 study on high IQ children Lewis Terman noted that despite these advantages high IQ is not always beneficial. He found that the very brightest often grew up maladjusted in some way suffering from anxiety, depression, personality disorder, or nervous breakdowns.

In Mensa Magazine Bruce G Charlton posited three fundamental disadvantages of high IQ .

Charlton’s triad:
1)   Socialism
2)   Atheism
3)   Reduced Fertility

Charlton argued that IQ is associated with a tendency to embrace socialism, a rejection of religious teachings, and ultimately a declining fertility. The purpose of this essay is to evaluate Charlton’s triad in the context of religion and health. Specifically we will look closely at the potential health effects of atheism.

Religion Health and Wellbeing

Is the lack of religion bad for your health? In a large survey of over 600,000 people Frank Newport and colleagues showed that the very religious not only report higher levels of overall wellbeing they are also more likely to have healthy eating and exercise habits.



Every religion reported superior wellbeing to that of atheist but the largest differences were found in the Mormons and the Jews. These are minority religions each comprising about 1.7% of the US population. Examining these two groups will help us better understand the impact of religion on human health.

Mormon Demographics

Demographically Mormons differ greatly from society at large. Nearly two thirds of Mormons 66% are married compared with just over half 48% of the general population. Mormons have large families with a fertility rate of 3.4 children per woman double that of atheists.



Mormons may also have some immunity the detrimental effect IQ on fertility. In the general population increasing income (highly correlated with IQ) is associated with both declining fertility and declining religious commitment. In Mormons the reverse is true. Mormon fertility is positively correlated with income and Mormons with higher levels of formal education tend to be more religiously committed.

On multiple religious measures Mormons stand out for having exceptionally high levels of religious commitment. More than nine-in-ten Mormons report a belief in God and that the Bible is the word of God. Mormons are also very observant in their religious practices with more than eight-in-ten praying daily. Mormons strongly support a strict interpretation of their faith and the preservation of traditional beliefs and practices.

Are these demographic differences actually due to the Mormon religion? How can we be confident these are not just population level differences that happen to correlate with religion? To better answer lets take a look at Jewish demographics.

Jewish Demographics

Unlike Mormons who are a young religion and can be looked at as a single group Judaism is one of the oldest religions and has splintered into many subgroups. There are many different branches of Judaism each with unique features. These branches can mostly be grouped into 5 major categories. From most conservative to most liberal these are Ultra-Orthodox, Modern Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Secular Jews.

Orthodox Jews believe their sacred scriptures the Torah is the word of God and should be studied and followed. Their customs and behavior is guided by observance of halakhah (Jewish Law). Conservative Jews acknowledge that Jewish writings come from God, but believe that the Law should adapt, absorbing aspects of the predominant culture while remaining true to Judaism's values. Reform Judaism does not hold that the Torah was written by God. The movement accepts the critical theory of Biblical authorship: that the Bible was written by separate sources and redacted together. Reform Jews do not believe in observance of commandments as such, but they retain much of the values and ethics of Judaism. Secular Jews do not affiliate with any major religious group they may or may not believe in God. A more detailed description of these difference can be read here.

When people think of the Jews they often think of famous figures like Allen Greenspan or presidential candidate Bernie Sanders both secular Jews. Secular Jews are often liberal, democratic voters. Orthodox Jews on the other hand tend to be socially conservative, and are more likely to be republican voters.

The Jews as a group are incredibly smart. They consistently rank highest in the world on IQ studies significantly higher than even Asians who are their nearest competitors. If Charlton’s triad of IQ disadvantages is correct then the Jews should be particularly susceptible. Is this the case?

American Jewish Fertility by Religious Current
Religious SectAverage No. of Children per Woman
Ultra-Orthodox6.72
Modern Orthodox3.39
Conservative1.74
Reform1.36
Secular1.29

As Jews leave orthodoxy it appears their fertility plummets. The Ultra-Orthodox are a group who are similar to the Amish in that they have partially separated themselves from the outside world choosing to live in isolated communities. They have a fertility rate of 6.72 which is similar to Amish fertility rates . Modern Orthodox Jews strictly adhere to their faith but simultaneously advocate engaging with the outside world especially higher education. The Modern Orthodox fertility rate 3.39 is nearly identical to that of Mormons. The Modern Orthodox have a similar philosophy to that of Mormons in that they advocate engaging with the outside world as much as possible while maintaining strict adherence to their religious code. As Jews move away from their historic religious tradition their fertility plummets. Secular Jews have a shockingly low fertility of 1.29 among the lowest in the world. For the Jews it appears the detrimental effects of high IQ are very real and that traditional religion offers some protection.

Toxicity of the Modern World

In Brave New World, Aldous Huxley envisioned a future where the masses were rendered infertile and controlled with pleasure and drugs. Is that the world we live in now? Anyone over that age of 25 may not realize how far traditional courtship and dating has been undermined by modernity. The tinder generation is being conditioned to swipe right on their onscreen app and meet up later for random sexual gratification. This phenomena has been described by Vanity Fair as nothing less than a dating apocalypse.

In Colorado long acting implantable contraceptives which a render women infertile for up to 10 years and require a doctor’s visit to remove have been implanted in 26% of young women age 15-24 as of 2013.

In 2015 an advisory body to the US Department of Health and Human Services recommended that Medicaid examine how often doctors are using “most effective” or “moderately effective” contraception. Only contraception deemed “highly effective” or “moderately effective” (Long acting implantable or long acting injections) would be included in the proposed measurement. Doctor’s with a low percentage of young patients using such contraception would presumably be rated as giving lower quality care.

We appear to be living in a “Utopia” of declining fitness and capability. An age of existential exhaustion manifested by an ageing, hedonistic society characterized by declining marriage, and near zero children.

Sin is the Situation

Quote from: Bruce Charlton
Sin is the situation where how we feel is ultimate human reality, and how we feel is known to be contingent and means nothing.
Sin is to embrace this nothingness as reality, to propagandize that nothingness is reality, to denigrate anything which saves us from nothingness.
*
And that is the reason we need to be ‘saved’.
And this is the reason why we cannot save ourselves.
We need to be saved from nothingness, and from those who brainwash us into a belief in nothingness, and from ourselves who propagate that reality is nothingness.
*
Sin is to embrace nothingness

Modern society is a mechanism for inculcating bad habits, especially the habit of seeking instant pleasure, intoxications and distractions; a habit of regarding ourselves as passive recipients for ‘entertainment’. A devout life is not so much about a flash of understanding but is mostly a matter of using insights into truth in building-up good habits; and this can be influenced by our will. A devout life enables one to build these habits and most importantly successfully pass them on to our children.

Quote from:  Terryl and Fiona Givens
Whatever sense we make of this world, whatever value we place upon our lives and relationships, whatever meaning we ultimately give to our joys and agonies, must necessarily be a gesture of faith. Whether we consider the whole a product of impersonal cosmic forces, a malevolent deity, or a benevolent god, depends not on the evidence, but on what we choose, deliberately and consciously to conclude from that evidence… If we decide to leave the questions unanswered, that is a choice; if we waver in our answer that too is a choice: but whatever choice we make, we make it at our peril.

What we choose to embrace, to be responsive to, is the purest reflection of who we are and what we love. That is why faith, the choice to believe, is, in the final analysis, an action that is positively laden with moral significance.

In the end you must make a choice:

Wallow in the degradation of modernity

Or

Celebrate purity of the human spirit

Your choice is one that echoes through time influencing not only your life but the lives of your children and grandchildren as well.
Choose Wisely


Edit: It is clear that a few posters were angered by the original title of this post. As the goal of this post is not to attack or denigrate but to inform and share knowledge I have selected a new and less inflammatory title.

Edit #2: For the vast majority of my adult life I have been agnostic perhaps even borderline atheist. I never considered God in any serious way or let thoughts of God or religion have any meaningful impact on my plans and actions. Over the last three and a half years I have gradually come to realize that I was very mistaken. I was not evangelized or converted in a house of worship. I never would have responded to such overtures for my mind was closed to them. Instead God entered my life by opening my eyes to the simple logic and reason of his existence. It was a journey that started in a desire to understand the unhealthy aspects of our modern society and ended with the clear realization that a genuine faith and acceptance of God is not only necessary but a logical conclusion for any self-aware consciousness. On what grounds do I make this bold claim? Well if you are curious I have linked the reasoning in a chain of ten posts. The first link is immediately below.    

See Religion and Progress for more.

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February 22, 2016, 08:48:55 PM
 #2

I had an IQ of 160 once upon a time. It's probably about 100 less now. I regard the religious as mentally ill. I have zero desire to procreate and think the world's a fuckhole. Hey, I guess you're right.

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February 22, 2016, 08:58:31 PM
Last edit: February 22, 2016, 09:12:16 PM by Moloch
 #3

In Mensa Magazine Bruce G Charlton posited three fundamental disadvantages of high IQ .

Charlton’s triad:
1)   Socialism
2)   Atheism
3)   Infertility

So, along with high IQ comes critical thinking skills...

1) Socialism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense to help those less fortunate than yourself
2) Atheism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense...
3) Intelligent parents have no need to produce dozens of brainwashed children... 1-2 smart children are better than 6 stupid ones destined for welfare




Newsflash: Atheists are a minority... you cannot blame the world's problems on 3% of the population... try blaming the 97% (religion) for your problems

Why blame the Mormons, and Jews and Atheists for all of your problems?

Why do religious people always blame and hate everyone?
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February 22, 2016, 09:07:26 PM
 #4


Have you considered that the universe is a scary and cold place, and considering it in its true nature does not make one happy? 
 
What makes a child happier: 1.) Believing a magical elf brings presents from the North Pole because of good behavior, or 2.) Understanding that presents come from mom and dad's hard work, and when you hear them worrying about money or fighting over it - you know in some small way you are a part of that stress? 
 
The truth rarely bring happiness, merely a sense of intellectual relief.  It also usually creates more questions than it answers, despite any temporary enlightenment.  How many of us would ever leave the womb, if given the choice?  It is warm and safe in there - and everything is taken care of.  But outside that womb is where life happens and things get complicated. 
 
Religion is like the intellectual womb - except this is one you have to choose to leave, and it's scary and takes strength of character to do so.

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February 22, 2016, 09:08:42 PM
 #5

Also, if there ever is a greater-than-human A.I. it will likely detest religion thoroughly, because to do so is quite logical: 
 
https://youtu.be/VrCTGfeJvxM 

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February 22, 2016, 09:11:12 PM
 #6

These stats are flawed because it's only true in the USA. I have an IQ of 153, and I'm heavily religious and a true far-right believer. Also, they're not really actualised.



Also, if there ever is a greater-than-human A.I. it will likely detest religion thoroughly, because to do so is quite logical: 
 
https://youtu.be/VrCTGfeJvxM 

Nothing is better than humans except God, because we're His most perfect creation.

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February 22, 2016, 09:15:09 PM
 #7

In Mensa Magazine Bruce G Charlton posited three fundamental disadvantages of high IQ .

Charlton’s triad:
1)   Socialism
2)   Atheism
3)   Infertility

So, along with high IQ comes critical thinking skills...

1) Socialism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense to help those less fortunate than yourself
2) Atheism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense...
3) Intelligent parents have no need to produce dozens of brainwashed children... 1-2 smart children are better than 6 stupid ones destined for welfare




Newsflash: Atheists are a minority... you cannot blame the world's problems on 3% of the population... try blaming the 97% (religion) for your problems

Why blame the Mormons, and Jews and Atheists for all of your problems?

Why do religious people always blame and hate everyone?

I deny your claim about socialism Moloch. I'm a bit sad, I thought you were an intelligent lad :-/

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CoinCube
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February 22, 2016, 09:15:39 PM
Last edit: May 14, 2018, 08:22:51 AM by CoinCube
 #8

Newsflash: Atheists are a minority... you cannot blame the world's problems on 3% of the population... try blaming the 97% (religion) for your problems

Why blame the Mormons, and Jews and Atheists for all of your problems?

Why do religious people always blame and hate everyone?

I have not blamed any problems on Mormons, Jews or Atheists. If you think I did you did not read my essay carefully enough.  
Personally I am or was until very recently agnostic/atheist. I have not been to any type of church or religious service since I was a very small child. However, logic dictates that I should change this bad habit.  

The above essay was my personal journey that led me to the surprisingly revolution that my prior smug condition of agnosticism/borderline atheism was in fact an intellectual error.  I am sharing it not to castigate atheist as a few weeks ago I pretty much was one, but to share the logic that led me to realize that the embrace of atheism is an understandable but fundamental error and should be reconsidered.

Edit:
I formalized and clarified why atheism is intellectual error in my Argument for God

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February 22, 2016, 09:17:02 PM
 #9

In Mensa Magazine Bruce G Charlton posited three fundamental disadvantages of high IQ .

Charlton’s triad:
1)   Socialism
2)   Atheism
3)   Infertility

So, along with high IQ comes critical thinking skills...

1) Socialism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense to help those less fortunate than yourself
2) Atheism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense...
3) Intelligent parents have no need to produce dozens of brainwashed children... 1-2 smart children are better than 6 stupid ones destined for welfare




Newsflash: Atheists are a minority... you cannot blame the world's problems on 3% of the population... try blaming the 97% (religion) for your problems

Why blame the Mormons, and Jews and Atheists for all of your problems?

Why do religious people always blame and hate everyone?

I deny your claim about socialism Moloch. I'm a bit sad, I thought you were an intelligent lad :-/

No worries, I was raised in America too... I fully understand how the American education system demonizes that word... it's not your fault
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February 22, 2016, 09:18:23 PM
 #10

In Mensa Magazine Bruce G Charlton posited three fundamental disadvantages of high IQ .

Charlton’s triad:
1)   Socialism
2)   Atheism
3)   Infertility

So, along with high IQ comes critical thinking skills...

1) Socialism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense to help those less fortunate than yourself
2) Atheism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense...
3) Intelligent parents have no need to produce dozens of brainwashed children... 1-2 smart children are better than 6 stupid ones destined for welfare




Newsflash: Atheists are a minority... you cannot blame the world's problems on 3% of the population... try blaming the 97% (religion) for your problems

Why blame the Mormons, and Jews and Atheists for all of your problems?

Why do religious people always blame and hate everyone?

I deny your claim about socialism Moloch. I'm a bit sad, I thought you were an intelligent lad :-/

No worries, I was raised in America too... I fully understand how the American education system demonizes that word... it's not your fault

Not sure I understand. You mean we don't have the same definition of socialism or that you are aware that socialism is a good principle but that can be misused of course (ike any political tool)?

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criptix
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February 22, 2016, 09:19:59 PM
 #11

Your premise is wrong.
There is a totaly obvious answer why religious zealots have a lot of children:

Their Gods are all pretty much the same regarding birth control:
There is non allowed.

If you are religous or not, well that is a question of believe...
Losvienleg
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February 22, 2016, 09:20:54 PM
 #12

In Mensa Magazine Bruce G Charlton posited three fundamental disadvantages of high IQ .

Charlton’s triad:
1)   Socialism
2)   Atheism
3)   Infertility

So, along with high IQ comes critical thinking skills...

1) Socialism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense to help those less fortunate than yourself
2) Atheism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense...
3) Intelligent parents have no need to produce dozens of brainwashed children... 1-2 smart children are better than 6 stupid ones destined for welfare




Newsflash: Atheists are a minority... you cannot blame the world's problems on 3% of the population... try blaming the 97% (religion) for your problems

Why blame the Mormons, and Jews and Atheists for all of your problems?

Why do religious people always blame and hate everyone?

I deny your claim about socialism Moloch. I'm a bit sad, I thought you were an intelligent lad :-/

No worries, I was raised in America too... I fully understand how the American education system demonizes that word... it's not your fault

Not sure I understand. You mean we don't have the same definition of socialism or that you are aware that socialism is a good principle but that can be misused of course (ike any political tool)?

No socialism is a plage ! A pink plague ! Their crimes in France so far : abortion, same-sex mariage, refugees, destruction of the school and the grammar, and the list goes long...

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February 22, 2016, 09:22:02 PM
 #13

I have an IQ of 153, and I'm heavily religious and a true far-right believer. Also, they're not really actualised.

 Grin Cheesy Roll Eyes

(lemme guess, was it a russian online iq test??)
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February 22, 2016, 09:23:15 PM
 #14

Atheism is poison? Don't you mean Poison are atheists?

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criptix
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February 22, 2016, 09:24:06 PM
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Atheism is poison? Don't you mean Poison are atheists?

dont you religious people know nothing except hate?!  Sad
Moloch
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February 22, 2016, 09:25:09 PM
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I deny your claim about socialism Moloch. I'm a bit sad, I thought you were an intelligent lad :-/

No worries, I was raised in America too... I fully understand how the American education system demonizes that word... it's not your fault

Not sure I understand. You mean we don't have the same definition of socialism or that you are aware that socialism is a good principle but that can be misused of course (ike any political tool)?

In America... we had this little thing called the cold war... we hated Russia and China... we slandered the words Socialism and Communism in an effort to make Americans reject this system without ever doing a shred of research about them

It's the very reason we call America a Democracy... America is a Republic, but we can't call it a Republic... because China... China is the people's Republic of China... we can't associate Democracy with Socialism...

There are plenty of successful socialist countries in Europe... Denmark, Sweden, Norway, etc... they do quite well with socialism, and have the highest ratings for health and well-being of any country on the planet!

You can always find good and bad examples for any system of governance... You can't bring up some, "evil socialist country", but ignore all the good ones...
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February 22, 2016, 09:26:30 PM
 #17

In Mensa Magazine Bruce G Charlton posited three fundamental disadvantages of high IQ .

Charlton’s triad:
1)   Socialism
2)   Atheism
3)   Infertility

So, along with high IQ comes critical thinking skills...

1) Socialism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense to help those less fortunate than yourself
2) Atheism is a no-brainer for intelligent people - it just makes sense...
3) Intelligent parents have no need to produce dozens of brainwashed children... 1-2 smart children are better than 6 stupid ones destined for welfare




Newsflash: Atheists are a minority... you cannot blame the world's problems on 3% of the population... try blaming the 97% (religion) for your problems

Why blame the Mormons, and Jews and Atheists for all of your problems?

Why do religious people always blame and hate everyone?

I deny your claim about socialism Moloch. I'm a bit sad, I thought you were an intelligent lad :-/

No worries, I was raised in America too... I fully understand how the American education system demonizes that word... it's not your fault
I'm a christian and I don't hate atheists. I can't actually remember when was the last time I felt hate, probably back when I was still an atheist and slave to my emotions like moloch is today  Smiley
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February 22, 2016, 09:27:16 PM
Last edit: May 21, 2018, 08:53:21 AM by CoinCube
 #18


Have you considered that the universe is a scary and cold place, and considering it in its true nature does not make one happy?  
  
What makes a child happier: 1.) Believing a magical elf brings presents from the North Pole because of good behavior, or 2.) Understanding that presents come from mom and dad's hard work, and when you hear them worrying about money or fighting over it - you know in some small way you are a part of that stress?  
  
The truth rarely bring happiness, merely a sense of intellectual relief.  It also usually creates more questions than it answers, despite any temporary enlightenment.  How many of us would ever leave the womb, if given the choice?  It is warm and safe in there - and everything is taken care of.  But outside that womb is where life happens and things get complicated.  
  
Religion is like the intellectual womb - except this is one you have to choose to leave, and it's scary and takes strength of character to do so.

"It is better to simply present the central tenets of religion in a way which emphasized that there is reason on both sides - against, yet also for, the truth and reality of Religion. Or to put it another way, it can reasonably be argued that it is not impossible that religion is false; but also, it is not impossible that religion is true.

Each person can make a choice; indeed each person must make a choice for themselves and upon that choice a great deal hinges maybe in the afterlife but definitely in the here and now." -Bruce Charlton

(The reply above was borrowed from the blog of Bruce Carlton as he articulated this point very well. Here is a link to his blog)

http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/?m=1

organofcorti
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February 22, 2016, 09:28:28 PM
 #19

Atheism is poison? Don't you mean Poison are atheists?

dont you religious people know nothing except hate?!  Sad

I was going for their sense of humour, but whatever.

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February 22, 2016, 09:28:33 PM
 #20

I'm a christian and I don't hate atheists. I can't actually remember when was the last time I felt hate, probably back when I was still an atheist and slave to my emotions like Moloch is today

Did you seriously just say you don't hate Atheists, then in the next sentence slander me?

The hypocrisy is getting thick, and we're still on the first page... slow down hoss
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