[WDC] Worldcoin | 0.17.1 Released! | AuxPoW w/ LWMA diff algorithm. Resync Req.

[balanghai]

What happened to the price? Seriously. People in the automated pools are dumping coins so much. This coin is in the brink of collapse.

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[MineNerd]

What happened to the price? Seriously. People in the automated pools are dumping coins so much. This coin is in the brink of collapse.

#11 on coinmarketcap.com and $0.38 per coin

Overdramatize much?

[binaryclock]

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[MaGNeT]

I have been buying like crazy as the relative value is declining. 0.1 BTC is the long term equilibrium-price. As long as the price is under that relation, there is an opportunity to have leveraged returns on investment.
This spring I am expecting the next leap of magnitude.

You're mad. (In my humble opinion

If you really think Scharmbeck project is so great, invest in it not the coin. If there's any coin people should be hoovering up just now its PPC and XPM with all this 51% attack fear.

If the Scharmbeck project has one ounce of business sense, they won't be coupling the fortunes of their business infrastructure with the fortunes of any one coin, specially now that alt coins with a similar technical spec to WDC are popping up like mushrooms after a rainshower. So where does that leave you when Scharmbeck decides it needs to 'diversify' and support other coins to keep its business alive ? You'll be a bag holder for another "dodo"coin.

If you're going to plough so much into a single coin on the basis of an initiative that *isn't* the coin itself, at least see it from the negative perspective before weighing up the advantages. If you find that hard, I'll give you a hand:

[1] - One of WDC's main 'selling' properties that's always touted is speed. But this is just blockchain transaction speed. In a point of sale situation, payments are handled by payment processors through accounts. Look at cryptocurrency exchanges for example - all trades happen instantaneously regardless of a coin's particular blockchain transaction speed. I've said this often on other forums, but if a crypto coin ever makes it into a grocery store or supermarket, we *won't* be doing blockchain transactions, we'll be using payment processors like Visa and Mastercard and transactions will all be instantaneous. A few minutes is fine for blockchain speed.

[2] - Look at the date on this link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=204894.0   When that announcement was made, about 40 of the alt's on the market today didn't exist. A new 'alt' was quite a big deal. Now it isn't. You can even roll your own...http://coingen.io/  Want a fast coin ? - just set the right parameters and have it delivered to your email box.

[3] - Proof of work is toast. It's now emerging that the previously "theoretical" concept of a 51% attack brought about by excessive concentration of hashing power is now a practical reality due to the phenomenon of massive hashing pools and mining viruses that can hijack millions of browsers. Proof of stake is the future because it's almost immune to this particular problem. (Doesn't mean there aren't other issues, but not this one). So that leaves PPC, XPM, NXT and such like as the contenders for challenging bitcoin. It's unlikely that Bitcoin itself will die because it's so established that the developers will find ways to defend against the 51%, like checkpoints etc. But second place downwards is going to go to proof of stake coins IMO.

[4] - Have a look at what Scharmbeck actually does. Basically 3 things:

a) - a fiat exchange
b) - a client (secret mobile WDC clients)
c) - a payment processor

Talk about playing to your weaknesses:

regarding a) a fiat exchange that only supports one coin vs fiat exchanges that support many

regarding b) ok, it might be a nice client, but a good client doesn't sell a coin, besides, there probably could not be a more competitive area right now

regarding c) as I said previously, if anybody is going to be doing payment processing in any significant way for cryptocurrencies, it will be existing people - Visa, Mastercard, Maestro, the banks etc. They already have an infrastructure that's currency independent, so adding a cryptocurrency will be peanuts if they think it's worth it.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but if crypt's are to get anywhere, people have to get real and actually think things through. They are a great store of value and potentially a huge threat to fiat because they are unlevered base money, but the blockchain is not a retail point-of-sale tool. It's a bank account and as long as you prioritise things that way the future looks bright for cryptos I think.

My advice:

Dump all your WDC into PPC, XPM, NxT and possibly QRK. Although the latter 2 have a bit of an "instamine scam" reputation, they are still good coins and have a massive potential liquidity which could spread far and wide. None are proof of work except QRK and all have properties unique to the coin itself which is a better investment criteria than relying on a solitary business supporting the coin.

In my opinion, Scharmbeck *might* survive if it starts to support other coins, but WDC will be history by christmas.

The more words needed, the less it means.

[toknormal]

The more words needed, the less it means.

For lazy readers:

Cryptocurrencies are about to come free with Cornflakes packets, so don't build a business that depends on a particular one.

[MaGNeT]

The more words needed, the less it means.

For lazy readers:

Cryptocurrencies are about to come free with Cornflakes packets, so don't build a business that depends on a particular one.

 

But still, Worldcoin has one large advantage over other coins: one badass name.

[toknormal]

But still, Worldcoin has one large advantage over other coins: one badass name.

Yes. I'll give you that.

You wouldn't want a silly name like Google, Twitter, Bitcoin, Peercoin or Apple.

The name "Worldcoin" actually tells people what the coin's for so it may still be successful   

[GloryHole]

Yes. I'll give you that.

You wouldn't want a silly name like Google, Twitter, Bitcoin, Peercoin or Apple.

The name "Worldcoin" actually tells people what the coin's for so it may still be successful   

LOL @ putting Peercoin up with Google, Twitter and Apple. Fanboy.

[k33k]

What happened to the price? Seriously. People in the automated pools are dumping coins so much. This coin is in the brink of collapse.

#11 on coinmarketcap.com and $0.38 per coin

Overdramatize much?

#8 on cryptmarketcap.com

[k33k]

[1] - One of WDC's main 'selling' properties that's always touted is speed. But this is just blockchain transaction speed. In a point of sale situation, payments are handled by payment processors through accounts. Look at cryptocurrency exchanges for example - all trades happen instantaneously regardless of a coin's particular blockchain transaction speed. I've said this often on other forums, but if a crypto coin ever makes it into a grocery store or supermarket, we *won't* be doing blockchain transactions, we'll be using payment processors like Visa and Mastercard and transactions will all be instantaneous. A few minutes is fine for blockchain speed.

I'm not sure about this. One of the things that makes cryptocurrencies popular is their decentralisation. If we end up storing our cryptos on payment processors they'll basically be banks and we might as well have stuck with the old currencies. People want to be able to use cryptos the same way they use cash and speed (without trusting a payment processor) is important for that.

[2] - Look at the date on this link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=204894.0   When that announcement was made, about 40 of the alt's on the market today didn't exist. A new 'alt' was quite a big deal. Now it isn't. You can even roll your own...http://coingen.io/  Want a fast coin ? - just set the right parameters and have it delivered to your email box.

This isn't really a problem. You could apply this to literally any coin. There are a bunch of coins that have copied and "improved" on Peercoin's PoW/PoS hybrid but that doesn't really hurt Peercoin.

[3] - Proof of work is toast. It's now emerging that the previously "theoretical" concept of a 51% attack brought about by excessive concentration of hashing power is now a practical reality due to the phenomenon of massive hashing pools and mining viruses that can hijack millions of browsers. Proof of stake is the future because it's almost immune to this particular problem. (Doesn't mean there aren't other issues, but not this one). So that leaves PPC, XPM, NXT and such like as the contenders for challenging bitcoin. It's unlikely that Bitcoin itself will die because it's so established that the developers will find ways to defend against the 51%, like checkpoints etc. But second place downwards is going to go to proof of stake coins IMO.

I agree with some of this. A 51% attack is becoming more likely these days. However there is a logical inconsistency. You think Bitcoin will stick around because they can implement defence against a 51% such as checkpoints or perhaps something we haven't dreamed up yet. Why can't Worldcoin do the same? I guess you're holding Bitcoin and have decided you don't like Worldcoin and are therefore biased.

[4] - Have a look at what Scharmbeck actually does. Basically 3 things:

a) - a fiat exchange
b) - a client (secret mobile WDC clients)
c) - a payment processor

Talk about playing to your weaknesses:

regarding a) a fiat exchange that only supports one coin vs fiat exchanges that support many

If you hang out in the Worldcoin community you'll notice that they're keen to establish Worldcoin as a standalone currency instead of just another crypto. For example, they pay attention to the WDC/USD or WSD/EUR value where most other coins pay attention to the COIN/BTC value. Given this attitude, it makes sense to have a financial service focused on Worldcoin instead of just another add-any-random-coin-that-can-make-us-money exchange.

regarding b) ok, it might be a nice client, but a good client doesn't sell a coin, besides, there probably could not be a more competitive area right now

regarding c) as I said previously, if anybody is going to be doing payment processing in any significant way for cryptocurrencies, it will be existing people - Visa, Mastercard, Maestro, the banks etc. They already have an infrastructure that's currency independent, so adding a cryptocurrency will be peanuts if they think it's worth it.

Why can't Scharmbeck be the new Visa or Mastercard? In the early days of Google you'd be telling them they have no chance because other search engines are already established.

I think it's clear that you've decided you don't like Worldcoin and then have started looking for reasons to support that viewpoint. Heck, if the things you listed are Worldcoin's biggest problems, the future looks like pretty smooth sailing to me.

[Thorgrim]

So now that the "Scharmbeck is a scam" angle is falling apart because they can no longer deny the implementation of it, the FUD pushers are switching over to other scare tactics.

Give it a rest guys

The continual attacks against WDC by people who decided to invest heavily in other coins and now regret it is getting old.

[tins]

So now that the "Scharmbeck is a scam" angle is falling apart because they can no longer deny the implementation of it, the FUD pushers are switching over to other scare tactics.

Give it a rest guys

The continual attacks against WDC by people who decided to invest heavily in other coins and now regret it is getting old.

Normal people see that.
Worldcoin isn't inventive as a coin, itself. It is the developers and community around it that is unique.
There is a non-stop, sustained push to bring this coin to the mainstream. Not just for value, in its own right, but for implementation of a crypto-currency as an usable currency void of some of the downfalls of bitcoin.
I think everybody involved should be proud.

[jdebunt]

1 Scharmbeck article & 1 WDC article have been posted today on CryptoArticles

http://www.cryptoarticles.com/crypto-news/2014/1/9/the-worldcoin-foundation-translation-project

&

http://www.cryptoarticles.com/crypto-news/2014/1/9/scharmbeck-shares-round-2-starts-soon

[toknormal]

I'm not sure about this. One of the things that makes cryptocurrencies popular is their decentralisation. If we end up storing our cryptos on payment processors they'll basically be banks and we might as well have stuck with the old currencies. People want to be able to use cryptos the same way they use cash and speed (without trusting a payment processor) is important for that

I don't think you fully appreciate how a retail environment works. There are several clearing stages between a supermarket cashpoint and a bank account. When you swipe your card at the retailer, it isn't communicating directly with your bank account, it's communicating with a till which may buffer the transaction to allow the retailer to reverse it or adjust it before finally comminting it. Then it goes to a clearing house like Visa which buffers it again and eventually it hits your bank account (by which time you're already home).

Just because we use the blockchain as the permanent 'parking ground' for our funds doesn't mean that the payment processing industry won't still be needed to clear transactions at the point of sale. Can you imagine today's crypto currency exchanges clearing every trade through the blockchain in realtime ? They'd grind to a muddy halt, even with 30 second transaction times. Instead we "charge" our exchange accounts with crypto in a single blockchain transaction, then do lots of trading, then we use a single blockchain transaction to withdraw our balance to cold storage when finished.

This is how it will work in a retail economy as well. You'll "charge" your Visa account with crypto in a single blockchain transaction, (or be credited with it if its a credit and not a debit card), then go to the shops with your card. Transactions will be instantaneous.

Crypto's may make banks redundant but they won't make payment processors redundant. A payment processor and a bank are 2 different things.

Why can't Scharmbeck be the new Visa or Mastercard?

Because to do that it would have to support all major cryptocurrencies as well as Fiat currencies at the point of sale. No payment processor is aligned with a single currency because they'd be uncompetitive and go out of business very quickly.

You think Bitcoin will stick around because they can implement defence against a 51% such as checkpoints or perhaps something we haven't dreamed up yet. Why can't Worldcoin do the same?

Yes, they could do and I'm sure any PoW coin could have anti-51% measures boilerplated on. The point I was making was that competitors and "serious seconds" to Bitcoin are more likely to have modern, forward looking designs from the ground up rather than boiler-plated last generation technology.

I guess you're holding Bitcoin and have decided you don't like Worldcoin and are therefore biased....I think it's clear that you've decided you don't like Worldcoin and then have started looking for reasons to support that viewpoint

I've held about 10 different coins from one time to another, including WDC. In fact I still have about 400 WDC. I'm not trying to troll it, I just think that these forums are about having honest discussions about the relative merits of coin properties. I accept that there are people who work very hard to develop and promote one thing or another but I think I've stuck to making relevant technical and commercial points rather than empty attacks. People are spending serious money on these things and are more interested in an informative exchange than feeling warm and fuzzy (I hope !    )

I think Worldcoin should be seen for what it is - a brand. If people want to buy into a brand then fair enough, everybody has different investment priorities. My point is that I don't think you can create a brand out of a currency. The two things have conflicting priorities as I outlined in my last post.

[tyler27]

Normal people see that.
Worldcoin isn't inventive as a coin, itself. It is the developers and community around it that is unique.
There is a non-stop, sustained push to bring this coin to the mainstream. Not just for value, in its own right, but for implementation of a crypto-currency as an usable currency void of some of the downfalls of bitcoin.
I think everybody involved should be proud.

Well said. This "There is a non-stop, sustained push to bring this coin to the mainstream. Not just for value, in its own right, but for implementation of a crypto-currency as an usable currency void of some of the downfalls of bitcoin" is the part you should focus on when choosing a coin imo. And how can you even compare this coin to "Quark coin" which did NOTHING in the last two months...glad I sold mine at 0.25$ and invested in WDC.

[toknormal]

.... sorry for rambling, but just one last thing (before I depress anybody too much    ).

Although I've made a lot of challenges in the last posts, these are just my opinions. The whole cryptocurrency stage is uncharted waters and there's a huge amount of experimenting to be done. If people really feel that a currency can be "branded" in the way the Worldcoin is trying to do (i.e. a semi-proprietary infrastructure as opposed to just having a loose 'theme' like Earthcoin, say, and then slamming it on all the exchanges) then obviously there may be ways to overcome the issues I've outlined.

Everybody's got different priorities and visions and nobody knows the future, least of all me. I raise these issues out of a genuine curiosity and process of discovery to try to get to the core of what's interesting about a coin and what may give it value. I think the challenges I've raised are real ones though.

[k33k]

Can you imagine today's crypto currency exchanges clearing every trade through the blockchain in realtime ? They'd grind to a muddy halt, even with 30 second transaction times.

Can I get a source on that?

[toknormal]

Can I get a source on that?

The source is between your ears 

[Thorgrim]

Can I get a source on that?

The source is between your ears  

It is a theoretical problem though.

It is like saying when I make millions on WDC I will have lots of taxes to pay.....  What a great problem to have!

If we ever get to the point where the blockchain can't handle it what will WDC be worth at that point? and how great is the incentive at that point to solve the problem?

I am not going to either discard or adopt a coin just because it could have a flaw or came up with a solution to a problem that doesn't exist yet. For example QRK. 5 levels of encryption great! Has anyone broken the encryption on other coins yet? Nope.

I am looking for real results right now. Not some promise that in the future our coin will be better. BTC has proven that a coin doesn't have to be technically superior to have superior value.

[toknormal]

If we ever get to the point where the blockchain can't handle it what will WDC be worth at that point? and how great is the incentive at that point to solve the problem?

There will be no incentive because there won't be a problem. The blockchain is not a cash register and will never be used en-masse to support point of sale payments in any crypto currency. That isn't it's purpose.

So whether a coin has a 30 second or 10 minute transaction time is irrelevant to it's suitability for use at the point of sale in a retail (in shop or online) environment.