Butterfly Labs Forced "On Hold For Refund" for all my Single SC orders

[dropt]

d) got no fucking claim to damages based on the fact that there is no contract

As far as I'm aware, this is actually a pretty valid point.

[Bicknellski]

d) got no fucking claim to damages based on the fact that there is no contract

As far as I'm aware, this is actually a pretty valid point.

How about you let the lawyers bring that up in court... and the judge decide? I don't think given the long Q that most people are going to receive a product and their only recourse is cancellation or likely legal action. Given the numbers I suspect they could work pool legal resources and get something back? At this point what other options are there? This will start degrading rapidly given what is happening.

[RoadStress]

Is int03h another retard Inaba's troll accounts?

[Schrankwand]

d) got no fucking claim to damages based on the fact that there is no contract  e) NO ACTUAL DAMAGES

Uhm, you mean, because they refunded him?

You don't need to sign a piece of paper to be in a contract...

[Bicknellski]

At this point in time it is too little too late for BFL.

[Bicknellski]

Is int03h another retard Inaba's troll accounts?

Asking magic 8 ball.....

SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE.....

[darkmule]

d) got no fucking claim to damages based on the fact that there is no contract

As far as I'm aware, this is actually a pretty valid point.

Seriously, if you have no clue what the law is, shut your damn mouth.  BFL offered a product for a certain price.  Legally, that part was not an offer, though it looks like one.  However, the customer then offered to buy the product for that amount.  That part is an "offer."  BFL accepted that offer by taking their money (and stating "all sales are final" just underscores that).  That's "acceptance."

"Offer" and "acceptance" are what makes a contract.  That's also how it works under the UCC, which is pretty much binding unless you're in Louisiana.

Needless to say, "you're a dick" is not a defense to breach of contract, except in Josh Zerlan bullshido fantasyland.

[k9quaint]

People are just too trusting and don't bother with research. This blind spot can result in very interesting mayoral races:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/

Apparently, it can also result in BFL.

[Xian01]

Intoh aka josh is using a sock puppet as he knows that the moment one law suit is issued against BFL and won, the gates or narnia will be torn down and BFL will be having to spend probably ALL their money on lawyers as everyones going to jump on board as frankly this BFL BULLSHIT is getting old. who knows perhaps fraudulent activity will end up being discovered by these DOUCHEBAGS, does this company even get audited ?  to prove to the customers where their money has gone. HOW DO WE KNOW THAT BFL LABS ARNT GIVING THEMSELVES 6 FIGURE SALARIES WITH THE CUSTOMERS MONEY?
JOSH I KNOW YOUR READING THIS AND YOUR MONKEY IQ WHICH IS PORTRAYED BY YOUR RESPONSES TO CUSTOMERS IS NOT SMARTER THAN THE PUBLIC, SO CUT YOUR HORSE S**T! ****HOLE

 This what I am having trouble wrapping my head around.

 - Be an asshole towards people/customers on Bitcoin talk
 - Have your customers call you out on being an asshole
 - Punitively cancel your customers' preorders because they talked back to you
 - Former customer is sure to be silenced, slink away into the night, never to be heard from again
 - Continue to taunt their former customer that they seemingly have no legal recourse
 
 It never should have reached the point where I became as irate as I did. EVER.

 This is clearly not a normal business-transaction scenario. Certainly not like one I have ever committed myself to.

 To support and applaud these sort of business ethics in America seems foreign to me.

 
 

[creativex]

The ONE thing BFL has done well through all their endless shell games is to keep the money coming in while nothing but bs goes out...even this will eventually come to an end. I dunno if this is the beginning of the end or no, but I think their behavior is becoming increasingly outrageous. This seems indicative of a collapsing house of cards.

I don't consider myself to be a paranoid person, but I've little doubt that there are pro BFL sockpuppet/shills plying their trade on the bitcointalk stage.

[bitwhizz]

I don't consider myself to be a paranoid person, but I've little doubt that there are pro BFL sockpuppet/shills plying their trade on the bitcointalk stage.

why? Becouse BFL has proved what a reputable company they are? so surely they wouldn't?
i think the opposite infact, BFL OBVIOUSLY doesn't have a PR team, so what else would be there tactic to entice customers and shut negative perceptions hhmmm well they COULD use SOCKPUPPETS as appose to a PR team to root BFL on bitcointalk.org and other related site which has a high concentration of potential customers..... this way its cheaper than hiring a PR team, so BFL can have more customers money to spunk on their salaries/bonuses for a job that could be done better by my pet dog......its a no brainer..... proof? they don't have a PR team what else do they use, and just see INTO3 comments, thats just josh all over,its easy to spot josh's word vomit

Furthermore who else would passionately back BFL

its either
1 - one of the few customers who purchased a BFL jalapeno and it has arrived
2- Someone who didnt purchase or purchased a BFL and hasnt arrived
3- BFL team aka josh

soo lets analyse this
1- one of the few customers who purchased a BFl jalapeno would have been annoyed they had to wait along time therefore i Doubt they would back BFL passionately like INTOHo3
2- someone who didn't purchase a BFL or purchased the BFL and it hasn't arrived - these guys are pissed off they havn't recieved a BFL product therefore wont back BFL, someone who didn't purchase a BFL (whether it be for whatever reason) are the most rational observers and if they read BFL history  they most certainly would not be passionately backing BFL.
3- that leaves BFL team - who are trying to save there ass

[smoothie]

I don't consider myself to be a paranoid person, but I've little doubt that there are pro BFL sockpuppet/shills plying their trade on the bitcointalk stage.

why? Becouse BFL has proved what a reputable company they are? so surely they wouldn't?
i think the opposite infact, BFL OBVIOUSLY doesn't have a PR team, so what else would be there tactic to entice customers and shut negative perceptions hhmmm well they COULD use SOCKPUPPETS as appose to a PR team to root BFL on bitcointalk.org and other related site which has a high concentration of potential customers..... this way its cheaper than hiring a PR team, so BFL can have more customers money to spunk on their salaries/bonuses for a job that could be done better by my pet dog......its a no brainer..... proof? they don't have a PR team what else do they use, and just see INTO3 comments, thats just josh all over,its easy to spot josh's word vomit

^ Sockpuppet?

[smoothie]

The ONE thing BFL has done well through all their endless shell games is to keep the money coming in while nothing but bs goes out...even this will eventually come to an end. I dunno if this is the beginning of the end or no, but I think their behavior is becoming increasingly outrageous. This seems indicative of a collapsing house of cards.

I don't consider myself to be a paranoid person, but I've little doubt that there are pro BFL sockpuppet/shills plying their trade on the bitcointalk stage.

Just wait for it. BFL is pretty silent these days.

Not much produced but talk if any at all.

Let's assume they have a working line of hardware at their now newly advertised specs.

Do any of us really believe they have enough money to satisfy all outstanding pre-orders in the queue of 11 months?

Hell no.

BFL does not want to talk about this because if they do then any attempt to sucker in more pre-order money is in vain. They are praying right now that enough suckers order their vaporware and are willing to wait....1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11+ months for their order.

The writing is on the wall and soon BFL and Josh's face will be on wanted posters if they do not run like wussies.

[smoothie]

Josh's last blog on their forums dated 10-19-2012

Sorry guys! It's been a really busy day here at the Labs. I haven't had enough time to get to a lot of the posts on the forums today, but I will get to them this weekend, I promise!

I was holding on to some of the pics of our products, but Bitcoin Magazine wanted to publish a couple for their upcoming article in the November issue, so I went ahead and released them in the article section. Yes, they really are that small... that is a normal sized hand, not Andre the Giant holding it. You can see my sexy, sexy fingers in the first picture, holding the Minirig SC card.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_josh/26-busy-day.html

LOL they are really that small. LOL as if they really had anything to showcase that had any future meaning at all. Now 7.5 months later...still pretty much nothing. 

[glendall]

I continue to be surprised that the vast majority have not cancelled their pre-orders with BFL.

It's been shown beyond and reasonable doubt they lie, can not be trusted (for examples sneaking out of 2 big bets), and are incompetent (do not have the ability to make the 'pre-order' product as promised).

Why would anyone not request a refund? Unless you pre-ordered in the first 3 months or so, it is likely by the time your number comes around they'll have run away by then with your money or have gone bankrupt, and not to mention, difficulty will be so high that you probably won't even get your ROI. BTC locked up with BFL is money that you could have used in a 100 other great opportunities in the Bitcoin world.

The thing I've taken away as a personal lesson from this BFL fiasco is how important advertising can be. The company did an excellent job selling their 'products' with slick ads put on the right websites -- so much so that they are still selling a good amount of pre-orders, even though realistically, I'd put them at only having about a 5% chance of giving a ROI. That one element of the company has impressed me.

[chalidore]

I don't consider myself to be a paranoid person, but I've little doubt that there are pro BFL sockpuppet/shills plying their trade on the bitcointalk stage.

why? Becouse BFL has proved what a reputable company they are? so surely they wouldn't?
i think the opposite infact, BFL OBVIOUSLY doesn't have a PR team, so what else would be there tactic to entice customers and shut negative perceptions hhmmm well they COULD use SOCKPUPPETS as appose to a PR team to root BFL on bitcointalk.org and other related site which has a high concentration of potential customers..... this way its cheaper than hiring a PR team, so BFL can have more customers money to spunk on their salaries/bonuses for a job that could be done better by my pet dog......its a no brainer..... proof? they don't have a PR team what else do they use, and just see INTO3 comments, thats just josh all over,its easy to spot josh's word vomit

Furthermore who else would passionately back BFL

its either
1 - one of the few customers who purchased a BFL jalapeno and it has arrived
2- Someone who didnt purchase or purchased a BFL and hasnt arrived
3- BFL team aka josh

soo lets analyse this
1- one of the few customers who purchased a BFl jalapeno would have been annoyed they had to wait along time therefore i Doubt they would back BFL passionately like INTOHo3
2- someone who didn't purchase a BFL or purchased the BFL and it hasn't arrived - these guys are pissed off they havn't recieved a BFL product therefore wont back BFL, someone who didn't purchase a BFL (whether it be for whatever reason) are the most rational observers and if they read BFL history  they most certainly would not be passionately backing BFL.
3- that leaves BFL team - who are trying to save there ass

I have 2 orders with them. One in October, one in January. I am annoyed that I don't have my hardware, however I have BFL FPGA units, and I love them. I knew what I was getting into when I ordered a product that did not yet exist. I psychologically prepared myself to not get my hardware until this summer, because anything before that would defy Moore's law. Difficulty will go up, price will go up, and mining will continue to be profitable. Those mining with the best hardware will have an edge. Those without ASIC will be butt-hurt and jealous.

[glendall]

I have 2 orders with them. One in October, one in January. I am annoyed that I don't have my hardware, however I have BFL FPGA units, and I love them. I knew what I was getting into when I ordered a product that did not yet exist. I psychologically prepared myself to not get my hardware until this summer, because anything before that would defy Moore's law. Difficulty will go up, price will go up, and mining will continue to be profitable. Those mining with the best hardware will have an edge. Those without ASIC will be butt-hurt and jealous.

chalidore I'm genuinely curious about 2 things:

1) What do you think the odds are that you will receive your product in 2013?  

2) Would there be any point in the future where you would cancel your preorders because they are no longer profitable?

Thank you. Honestly would like to hear your thoughts.

[chalidore]

I have 2 orders with them. One in October, one in January. I am annoyed that I don't have my hardware, however I have BFL FPGA units, and I love them. I knew what I was getting into when I ordered a product that did not yet exist. I psychologically prepared myself to not get my hardware until this summer, because anything before that would defy Moore's law. Difficulty will go up, price will go up, and mining will continue to be profitable. Those mining with the best hardware will have an edge. Those without ASIC will be butt-hurt and jealous.

chalidore I'm genuinely curious about 2 things:

1) What do you think the odds are that you will receive your product in 2013?  

2) Would there be any point in the future where you would cancel your preorders because they are no longer profitable?

Thank you. Honestly would like to hear your thoughts.

1) Considering that they had a working prototype at the last meet-up, and some of the 5gh units are already shipping, I would say my odds are pretty good.
2) ASIC ROI is a good bet anytime over the next couple years. This is a game changer, and will become the new standard. The market will adjust to difficulty and available technology, but having the latest tech is huge. I am still mining with a sizable GPU farm, as it is still profitable. I seriously wish I would have bought more FPGA, but hindsight is 20/20. Next year I will be wishing I had bought more ASIC. Everyone will be.

[centove]

Now they offer a 2Gh/s 'upgrade' on the 5GH/s thing $100.00


FLAME ON!

[batcoin]

Josh's last blog on their forums dated 10-19-2012

Sorry guys! It's been a really busy day here at the Labs. I haven't had enough time to get to a lot of the posts on the forums today, but I will get to them this weekend, I promise!

I was holding on to some of the pics of our products, but Bitcoin Magazine wanted to publish a couple for their upcoming article in the November issue, so I went ahead and released them in the article section. Yes, they really are that small... that is a normal sized hand, not Andre the Giant holding it. You can see my sexy, sexy fingers in the first picture, holding the Minirig SC card.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_josh/26-busy-day.html

LOL they are really that small. LOL as if they really had anything to showcase that had any future meaning at all. Now 7.5 months later...still pretty much nothing. 

HolyScott - 10-19-2012 07:53 PM

    WHoooohoooo!!! We Haven't All Been SCAMMED!!!!!!

Ummm... Has NO ONE noticed that first comment to his blog post?