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Author Topic: Butterfly Labs Forced "On Hold For Refund" for all my Single SC orders  (Read 59174 times)
PuertoLibre
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May 18, 2013, 11:05:11 PM
 #381

more stuff as usual including this:

(Read Carefully) Look at my sig, it says to invest MORE into BFL until they are ready to give a firm date.


Warning: BFL has failed to deliver to customers for > 165+ Days

yawn

No answer to 'open public accusations'
That is true!

Are you even aware of that much?
nottm28
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May 18, 2013, 11:07:57 PM
 #382

more stuff as usual including this:

(Read Carefully) Look at my sig, it says to invest MORE into BFL until they are ready to give a firm date.


Warning: BFL has failed to deliver to customers for > 165+ Days

yawn

No answer to 'open public accusations'
That is true!

Are you even aware of that much?

I'll post my 'open public accusations' again in case you missed them - your specific response to this would be appreciated:



One minute you call me stupid, then you can gather 'I aren't dumb nor the ordinary type of shill'

I'm going to be blunt and put my accusations about you right out there - you want bfl to fail, you actively scare monger (look at your sig) and encourage customers to get a refund. I respect that you were clever enough to be one of the early adopters - I really do (my friend back at you) - but 'I am ASIC miner'...

I know it might be painful for the rest of the world to 'catch up' with you but it's going to happen (my friend).

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Xian01 (OP)
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May 18, 2013, 11:18:24 PM
 #383

The more light we shed on Butterfly Labs' business practices, the more chance we have to effect positive change and hold them to anything resembling responsible accountability to their customers.
But you have been refunded - who are the 'we', from now on ? - not you.

"We" being concerned citizens of Bitcoinia who are vocal about shenanigans impacting our ecosystem.

nottm28
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May 18, 2013, 11:21:15 PM
 #384

The more light we shed on Butterfly Labs' business practices, the more chance we have to effect positive change and hold them to anything resembling responsible accountability to their customers.
But you have been refunded - who are the 'we', from now on ? - not you.

"We" being concerned citizens of Bitcoinia who are vocal about shenanigans impacting our ecosystem.



Hang on - you said you marked me as 'ignored' - what's going on - are you a 'liar' - or did you 'un-ignore' me ?

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k9quaint
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May 19, 2013, 12:18:25 AM
 #385

I'm going to be blunt and put my accusations about you right out there - you want bfl to fail, you actively scare monger (look at your sig) and encourage customers to get a refund. I respect that you were clever enough to be one of the early adopters - I really do (my friend back at you) - but 'I am ASIC miner'...

BFL has already failed. Our wants are beside the point.

Going forward:
Bitcoin related projects that fail their customers reflect poorly upon the entire Bitcoin community.
Now, every mining concern that follows will have to deal with the taint of BFL.

Bitcoin is backed by the full faith and credit of YouTube comments.
Cablez
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May 19, 2013, 01:09:03 AM
 #386

Hehe............he said 'taint'.           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
Phil21
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May 19, 2013, 02:32:13 AM
 #387


Since then I have employed "pool hopping" in a strategic way

Isn't this just another word for stealing from other miners?

Are any pools even still vulnerable to hopping?  That surprises me to be honest.  I haven't kept up on the topic.
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May 19, 2013, 02:50:58 AM
 #388


Since then I have employed "pool hopping" in a strategic way

Isn't this just another word for stealing from other miners?

Are any pools even still vulnerable to hopping?  That surprises me to be honest.  I haven't kept up on the topic.

Small pools with bad reward algorithms would be very vulnerable to 60GH/s showing up.
Then again, people who mine in pools with bad reward algorithms get bad rewards.

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PuertoLibre
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May 19, 2013, 02:53:24 AM
 #389


Since then I have employed "pool hopping" in a strategic way

Isn't this just another word for stealing from other miners?

Are any pools even still vulnerable to hopping?  That surprises me to be honest.  I haven't kept up on the topic.
Considering I am jumping to a PPS pool...kinda hard to steal as you only earn what you actually send in.

Edit: To be more precise I only bail on a pool when the round luck is very poor,(i.e. Takes an eternity to complete) then come back when the rounds become somewhat normal again.
PuertoLibre
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May 19, 2013, 02:57:14 AM
 #390


Since then I have employed "pool hopping" in a strategic way

Isn't this just another word for stealing from other miners?

Are any pools even still vulnerable to hopping?  That surprises me to be honest.  I haven't kept up on the topic.

Small pools with bad reward algorithms would be very vulnerable to 60GH/s showing up.
Then again, people who mine in pools with bad reward algorithms get bad rewards.
You just brought an idea to mind. I hadn't actually thought of that.

I might try and see if I can do what the other users above mentioned and see if that does indeed cause a vulnerability. (stealing)

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Christian Antkow


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May 19, 2013, 03:47:01 AM
 #391

Considering I am jumping to a PPS pool...kinda hard to steal as you only earn what you actually send in.
Edit: To be more precise I only bail on a pool when the round luck is very poor,(i.e. Takes an eternity to complete) then come back when the rounds become somewhat normal again.

 Which proxy are you using for hopping ? You banging away on the Deepbit prop pool ?
PuertoLibre
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May 19, 2013, 03:48:22 AM
 #392

Considering I am jumping to a PPS pool...kinda hard to steal as you only earn what you actually send in.
Edit: To be more precise I only bail on a pool when the round luck is very poor,(i.e. Takes an eternity to complete) then come back when the rounds become somewhat normal again.

 Which proxy are you using for hopping ? You banging away on the Deepbit prop pool ?
Proxy? Why would I need a proxy?
Xian01 (OP)
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May 19, 2013, 03:55:36 AM
 #393

Proxy? Why would I need a proxy?

For managing hopping your hash power at pools. I was running bitHopper 2.6.2 for getwork stuff up until very recently before I took the plunge to Stratum.

Have been at a loss for how to manage hopping the hash power in my farm through a local proxy, so I just went legit and have each CGMiner worker connecting to the pool directly via Stratum instead of connecting to my local bitHopper proxy and then out to the pools for getwork.

Knowwhatimean ? Automated poolhooping has become practically impossible today AFAIK.
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May 19, 2013, 05:50:09 AM
 #394

I recently came across this thread on Butterfly Labs' own forums of growing discontent with the state of the project and company.

---

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/minirig-sc-support/2513-mini-rig-concerns-open-letter-bfl.html

From: backburn  (Senior Member)
@ 05-07-2013, 02:56 PM
Join Date: Oct 2012

"I have had over 60 thousand dollars tied up with BFL's mini rigs since August 2012. It is saddening that Mini-Rig purchasers have been essentially been put to pasture. We take the largest risk and invest the most capital only to, seemingly, be shipped last. There has been next to no proactive personal communication from BFL. If there is an issue with our order we have to "search the website" everyday to be apprised. Car dealerships get a bad rap but they are saints compared to the customer handling by BFL. At least a car dealership will personally call you when they encounter a delay, hell they might even throw in free service. It is as if those who ordered a Mini-Rig are a liability to them instead of an asset.

While in Vegas for CES, several industry consultants including myself met with Josh and Dave at the Bitpay booth. We expressed concern about not only their power specifications but their density in the mini-rig chassis. We even offered to test and make recommendations on the mini-rig chassis and cooling systems for free. All of our concerns were brushed off by Josh and Dave and we were not contacted. (We are PAID to do this for Intel, nVidia, and ASUS. Many of they show systems you see at events are developed by us.) Maybe they were just tired from all that goes on at CES, maybe they thought we were just another group of nerds... I don't know. Mind you this was MONTHS before the wafers were manufactured. They were informed of these "new" issues months in advance.

a) The eVGA Classified 1500w power supplies they have already purchased were not proper for even their ORIGINAL board/rig specs. More than 80% continuous usage WILL cook consumer PSUs, not a matter of IF but WHEN. My car may be rated to go 120MPH, but if i leave it at full throttle how long will it last?
b) They pre-built daisy chain type usb cables: Bad idea. If one board goes tits up so does every properly functioning board behind it. Additionally, when you replace/remove the bad board you have to play usb cable musical chairs for the downstream devices. Each board should be home run. We're were told this was not an option because "they already made up the wires".
c) Even with the new boards it will take an extremely optimistic minimum of 3 Mini-Rig chassis. To add insult, each chassis will have be retrofit with an additional power supply, something we also pointed out at CES months and months ago.

Maybe they have addressed some of these issues. Who can know? I wont hold my breath, they have not given proper updates regarding Mini-Rigs for over half a year.

Quote
Originally Posted by stripykitteh  
... to change their policy with regards to order of manufacture and shipping at this stage is tantamount to misleading and deceptive conduct. BFL need to act very carefully.
Agreed it could be misleading, it could be deceptive, but im banking on ignorance.
We've collectively paid to kick-start the company for them.
We've paid from them to learn how to operate as a proper business.
And now we've paid and are waiting for them to learn how to make proper ASICs.

Bottom line:
It is amazing how far a personal phone call to those that have made $30,000.00+ orders will go.
We should NOT have to email you and search through a forum every month to find out what the heck is going on.
Please do not skip mini-rig orders to ship loads of smaller units to pander to the masses. And if you do, at least provide demo singles or even jalapenos units free of charge to mini-rig customers.
Don't forget that those of us with min-rig pre-orders in August could have had near $750,000.00 with their $30,000 if they had just bought BTC and sold during the last bubble.
Help take some of the sting away from pre-ordering with your company and show that you care. Throw us a bone!"


Bicknellski
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May 19, 2013, 06:21:08 AM
Last edit: May 19, 2013, 06:32:41 AM by Bicknellski
 #395

Number of BFL units delivered?

Number of changes to the delivery plans?

Number of changes to the design of the units?

If that is scare mongering then why bother asking any questions at all?

If you are not questioning or seeking answers to the questions above then I suspect you are simply willing to donate your money to BFL for units with no defined specifications or delivery dates. That is ok for those who are already "bought" into this system but that doesn't mean others should simply ignore the facts as BFL presented them and ignore it. There is certainly nothing wrong with being part of this community and giving a FAIR WARNING to others out there. What I do not understand is why anyone already in the system would care if others are warned off BFL products? Considering the current backlog of orders creating more of a backlog could bring the threat of legal action. investigation into the mix and it might work to collapse BFL. The only reason why a "customer" of BFL would be defending an increase in sales is ensure that there is enough of a cash flow so they will get their units and screw those who are being fooled into believing they are going to get units in July or August. That is disingenuous at best or fraud and those who advocate shutting up those who are voicing concern about BFL's lack of delivery, changing specification and redesigns as well as the shipping changes etc etc etc are to me complicit in this fraud.

You should be scared to order from BFL they have not delivered anything yet.

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May 19, 2013, 08:00:51 AM
 #396

I just thought of something terrible (or maybe not). What if Josh returns to KC to find that Sonny is nowhere to be found? Imagine the drama!
Bitcoinorama
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May 19, 2013, 08:18:51 AM
 #397

Can you guess what he does with that tail?

Money. Tail. I've been looking for a place to link this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_DnQxOIUaU

Not fucking cool! Poor bastard is chained by the neck for no reason. If I ever found the c**t that did that I'd tear him/her to pieces!

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
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May 19, 2013, 08:52:17 AM
 #398

I just thought of something terrible (or maybe not). What if Josh returns to KC to find that Sonny is nowhere to be found? Imagine the drama!

We all know Josh is gonna be the fall guys in this ...

Ξtherization⚡️First P2E 2016⚡️🏰💎🌈 etherization.org
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May 19, 2013, 09:10:31 AM
 #399

Agreed it could be misleading, it could be deceptive, but im banking on ignorance.

I used to call those guys "them BFL Cowboys" for their unfathomable amount of dilettantism.

But at some stage you simply can't blame it anymore on ignorance - at some stage you have to take malice into consideration.

Quote
Please do not skip mini-rig orders to ship loads of smaller units to pander to the masses. And if you do, at least provide demo singles or even jalapenos units free of charge to mini-rig customers.

This is truly unbelievable! Just imagine you ordered a new car - and it's gonna be 6 month late. You get free upgrades (seat heater, better car audio, and whatnot, ...). I would expect the same from BFL (like you said: free Singles or Jalapenos for the high-value MiniRig customers). But what does BFL do instead? Sending free units to the press, family&friends (BFL forum moderators), ... and only a handful to paying customers.

Must be a slap in the face - especially for high-value customers.

Ξtherization⚡️First P2E 2016⚡️🏰💎🌈 etherization.org
PuertoLibre
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May 19, 2013, 09:31:26 AM
 #400

more stuff as usual including this:

(Read Carefully) Look at my sig, it says to invest MORE into BFL until they are ready to give a firm date.


Warning: BFL has failed to deliver to customers for > 165+ Days

yawn

No answer to 'open public accusations'
This is what it feels like to receive your first ASIC miner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwzHfr-qaFo

This is what it feels like to not receive your ASIC Miner (after...I don't know how many days...I lost count):
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2763-bitcoin-avalon-asic-batch-2-unboxing.html

And the inevitable reaction:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/2766-how-use-buyer-protection-policy-pressure-lab-formally.html
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