Is Electroneum a SCAM???

[Vadimvasily]

All I can say is that make your findings before investing in an ICO, that's all

[stonehedge]

All I can say is that make your findings before investing in an ICO, that's all

And consider the advice of people who know the industry.

[invicta]

Why is everyone speaking in riddles?! Can't work out who is for and against this coin!

For clarification, I am not a firm believer. I have some hashpower pointed at it and have a small holding (I didn't do the ICO and I'm glad of that given they couldn't even smoothly launch that and still haven't) - given the die-hard fanbase of people who think this is the next big thing, if the hype is anything to go by, it might just work, even though I don't think much of the actual technical details behind it (virtually a direct copy of Monero with some wishy-washy stuff about 'mobile mining that isn't actually mobile mining or PoW') or some of the bumbling videos they've posted. I can see why it excites some people, but if they really think that simply owning a high-end mobile phone and running the Electroneum app is going to make them a millionaire by 2020 (which seems to be the premise a lot of people are sold on) then fair game. I am genuinely interested to see how this plays out, I have been wrong before, like glossing over Bitcoin years ago...

[benjaminoo]

I am not being aggressive, but if anyone else has some hard evidence that they are sorting things out their end, actually making improvements (fixing their wallet would be a good start), mobile mining being more than vapourware and not just what Richard claims or says on their social media page - because I've seen that and it doesn't stack up. I mean, how is this better than Monero which has proven its worth?

Received a mass-email from them just now.

After the security problems of the ICO they have taken a few days to safeguard their website - basically the system that allows ICO investors to withdraw their coins to offline wallets, as well as the mobile mining app system.

They then decided to bring on Hackerone, a software security company working with the Department of Defense, Coinbase, Spotify, etc. to help them test the system for any vulnerabilities. Hackerone is now busy testing and plan to test until early December.

It's true that most defenders of Electroneum are those with large investments. I myself have made a good investment and mined a truckload in the early hours of the blockchain. But with that said, I do believe in this coin. It has all the right ingredients to go viral and gain mass acceptance.

And since the strength of any currency lies in the number of users it has, this viral growth will enable it to grow with leaps and bounds.

Richard mentioned in his email that they plan to bring the system online within the first or second week of December.

Fingers crossed...

[Igor17Krik]

I don't think so. It seems to me that the developers need time for completion of the project. It will be seen. To say that the Scam is still early!

[Tornand]

Actually nobody is forced to believe or invest in Electroneum. If you don't want it, just don't do it!

I am aware that there is a lot of FUD from monero lovers fearing that ETN might become a risk to there own investments.
There are also the complaints of the tech preachers who always want to have technical development in the middle of everything.

But I am sure that noone has to fear ETN. They will bring a lot of people from developing countries into the crypto market which will push every Monero wallet too.
and an innovation doesn't have to be pure technically. This is a huge experiment with a perma airdrop of coins to millions of people. Noone ever did it. Noone ever even thought of it. This is enough innovation for me. And I can't predict what will happen to exchange rates with this massive perma airdrop. But I am excited to watch it. I might lose my money I invested in it, but actually this is crypto. It is always a huge bet and a huge risk. That is what it makes it attractive to many people including myself.

[Sanglotslongs2]

Fine - I read that but it's a lot of ifs and buts and claims about what they should and will 'maybe' do. So it's a cryptocurrency that is centralised because they will control it themselves? From what exactly? And then half the coins 'mined' on mobile and half on anything else - are these meant to be worth the same? So, 5 devices per IP? Well a cheap laptop will cost you maybe $50, so a handful of those emulating 5 phones and some connected to VPNs - now what?

Honestly, genuinely, I want to give it the benefit of doubt but it doesn't look good to me. The community is very good at weeding out frauds and most of the people who are defending Electroneum are doing so because they bought into the ICO and have a large (relative) stake. I am mining it myself just in case but only a very small percentage of my hashpower is pointing at it.

Also, what exactly is taking them so long to fix with the wallets and ICO tokens (I didn't buy into the ICO)? They have been doing lots of marketing but nothing on this wallet and ICO token issue - that's been very quiet. Their website just says 'WE WILL BE BACK AS SOON AS POSSIBLE', well that's been over a week.

I am not being aggressive, but if anyone else has some hard evidence that they are sorting things out their end, actually making improvements (fixing their wallet would be a good start), mobile mining being more than vapourware and not just what Richard claims or says on their social media page - because I've seen that and it doesn't stack up. I mean, how is this better than Monero which has proven its worth?

Having a LinkedIn page and telephone numbers does not make it 'not a scam', basically anyone with 'the internet' can order a pay-as-you-go SIM and create a LinkedIn page...

It's a strange behavior, but you need to keep digging to find out. There is a lot of scam exit nowadays. If it smells that bad better to get out IMO, it's not worth the risk.

[stonehedge]

Oh dear.  Harry Redknapp has deleted his Electroneum tweet and is distancing himself from the project.

Maybe the Maria Sharapova news has freaked him out.

[Tornand]

I am sure one day crypto will break out of the very small tech community, like PCs in the 90s. I don't know if ETN will do the job, but anyone will do it. And I doubt it will be one of the top 10 coins available now.

[invicta]

Actually nobody is forced to believe or invest in Electroneum. If you don't want it, just don't do it!

I am aware that there is a lot of FUD from monero lovers fearing that ETN might become a risk to there own investments.
There are also the complaints of the tech preachers who always want to have technical development in the middle of everything.

But I am sure that noone has to fear ETN. They will bring a lot of people from developing countries into the crypto market which will push every Monero wallet too.
and an innovation doesn't have to be pure technically. This is a huge experiment with a perma airdrop of coins to millions of people. Noone ever did it. Noone ever even thought of it. This is enough innovation for me. And I can't predict what will happen to exchange rates with this massive perma airdrop. But I am excited to watch it. I might lose my money I invested in it, but actually this is crypto. It is always a huge bet and a huge risk. That is what it makes it attractive to many people including myself.

Honestly, there’s too many rose-tinted glasses looking at this thing. There are some obvious questions that no-one has answered, like how giving coins to everyone is going to result in good intrinsic value, or why everyone is tolerating the wallet being offline for weeks (given that Ethermine EU went offline for a few hours and there was a massive ruckus) or how copying a codebase (not that there’s anything wrong with doing that) and some vague promises of mobile mining should result in a new coin?

The only thing I can see going for it is the massive hype and fanbase surrounding it might just be the one thing that saves it. It certainly won’t be it’s technical merit (you can’t dismiss technical in crypto, can you...). Anyway I have a little holding on that vague chance - I haven’t totally dismissed it, I’m just not buying into it as much as some of the big holders.

[Tornand]

Actually nobody is forced to believe or invest in Electroneum. If you don't want it, just don't do it!

I am aware that there is a lot of FUD from monero lovers fearing that ETN might become a risk to there own investments.
There are also the complaints of the tech preachers who always want to have technical development in the middle of everything.

But I am sure that noone has to fear ETN. They will bring a lot of people from developing countries into the crypto market which will push every Monero wallet too.
and an innovation doesn't have to be pure technically. This is a huge experiment with a perma airdrop of coins to millions of people. Noone ever did it. Noone ever even thought of it. This is enough innovation for me. And I can't predict what will happen to exchange rates with this massive perma airdrop. But I am excited to watch it. I might lose my money I invested in it, but actually this is crypto. It is always a huge bet and a huge risk. That is what it makes it attractive to many people including myself.

Honestly, there’s too many rose-tinted glasses looking at this thing. There are some obvious questions that no-one has answered, like how giving coins to everyone is going to result in good intrinsic value, or why everyone is tolerating the wallet being offline for weeks (given that Ethermine EU went offline for a few hours and there was a massive ruckus) or how copying a codebase (not that there’s anything wrong with doing that) and some vague promises of mobile mining should result in a new coin?

The only thing I can see going for it is the massive hype and fanbase surrounding it might just be the one thing that saves it. It certainly won’t be it’s technical merit (you can’t dismiss technical in crypto, can you...). Anyway I have a little holding on that vague chance - I haven’t totally dismissed it, I’m just not buying into it as much as some of the big holders.

Well said. Indeed it is rose tinted glas. And I am not denying that I am holding quite a good portion of ETN so I am obviously interested in the success of this coin.
And I am not denying technical aspects. But look at BTC. If it was an ICO these days it would be a complete mess. It is slow, it has extraordinary fees,... Monero is a far better technical base compared to Bitcoin. Zero proof protocol is groundbreaking and ZEC is doing okish. But compared to the disruptive technology it is underperforming.
At this point you have to admit that there must be more than just simple technical questions.

I see the huge opportunities for many businesses like telecom companies. Imagine if an african Vodafone would preinstall the app on all of their smartphones. If ETN just has little value they might attract a lot of people to buy from this provider. Actually it could make the phone bill pay itself.
I am far away from expecting it to moon. I dont see anything near 1$ in the next years because of the huge inflation caused by the perma airdrop. It also will not make huge instant jumps from one day to another. But with this viral bombs they can deliver they have the potential to attract a huge amount of people which would lead to partnerships with other companies.

And if I am wrong I will buy myself a really expensive bottle of whiskey to help me through my depressions 

[stonehedge]

Actually nobody is forced to believe or invest in Electroneum. If you don't want it, just don't do it!

I am aware that there is a lot of FUD from monero lovers fearing that ETN might become a risk to there own investments.
There are also the complaints of the tech preachers who always want to have technical development in the middle of everything.

But I am sure that noone has to fear ETN. They will bring a lot of people from developing countries into the crypto market which will push every Monero wallet too.
and an innovation doesn't have to be pure technically. This is a huge experiment with a perma airdrop of coins to millions of people. Noone ever did it. Noone ever even thought of it. This is enough innovation for me. And I can't predict what will happen to exchange rates with this massive perma airdrop. But I am excited to watch it. I might lose my money I invested in it, but actually this is crypto. It is always a huge bet and a huge risk. That is what it makes it attractive to many people including myself.

Honestly, there’s too many rose-tinted glasses looking at this thing. There are some obvious questions that no-one has answered, like how giving coins to everyone is going to result in good intrinsic value, or why everyone is tolerating the wallet being offline for weeks (given that Ethermine EU went offline for a few hours and there was a massive ruckus) or how copying a codebase (not that there’s anything wrong with doing that) and some vague promises of mobile mining should result in a new coin?

The only thing I can see going for it is the massive hype and fanbase surrounding it might just be the one thing that saves it. It certainly won’t be it’s technical merit (you can’t dismiss technical in crypto, can you...). Anyway I have a little holding on that vague chance - I haven’t totally dismissed it, I’m just not buying into it as much as some of the big holders.

Well said. Indeed it is rose tinted glas. And I am not denying that I am holding quite a good portion of ETN so I am obviously interested in the success of this coin.
And I am not denying technical aspects. But look at BTC. If it was an ICO these days it would be a complete mess. It is slow, it has extraordinary fees,... Monero is a far better technical base compared to Bitcoin. Zero proof protocol is groundbreaking and ZEC is doing okish. But compared to the disruptive technology it is underperforming.
At this point you have to admit that there must be more than just simple technical questions.

I see the huge opportunities for many businesses like telecom companies. Imagine if an african Vodafone would preinstall the app on all of their smartphones. If ETN just has little value they might attract a lot of people to buy from this provider. Actually it could make the phone bill pay itself.
I am far away from expecting it to moon. I dont see anything near 1$ in the next years because of the huge inflation caused by the perma airdrop. It also will not make huge instant jumps from one day to another. But with this viral bombs they can deliver they have the potential to attract a huge amount of people which would lead to partnerships with other companies.

And if I am wrong I will buy myself a really expensive bottle of whiskey to help me through my depressions  

Nice to see some sensible debate on this.

Question.  What about Electroneum's plans makes you think it can succeed where the hundreds of other projects that have attempted to crack the smart phone market have failed?

I mean, there are literally hundreds of projects with mobile wallets that work well.  Bitcoin for one! Transaction times too slow?  How about Dash?  Crown?  The list is endless.

[Tornand]

Actually nobody is forced to believe or invest in Electroneum. If you don't want it, just don't do it!

I am aware that there is a lot of FUD from monero lovers fearing that ETN might become a risk to there own investments.
There are also the complaints of the tech preachers who always want to have technical development in the middle of everything.

But I am sure that noone has to fear ETN. They will bring a lot of people from developing countries into the crypto market which will push every Monero wallet too.
and an innovation doesn't have to be pure technically. This is a huge experiment with a perma airdrop of coins to millions of people. Noone ever did it. Noone ever even thought of it. This is enough innovation for me. And I can't predict what will happen to exchange rates with this massive perma airdrop. But I am excited to watch it. I might lose my money I invested in it, but actually this is crypto. It is always a huge bet and a huge risk. That is what it makes it attractive to many people including myself.

Honestly, there’s too many rose-tinted glasses looking at this thing. There are some obvious questions that no-one has answered, like how giving coins to everyone is going to result in good intrinsic value, or why everyone is tolerating the wallet being offline for weeks (given that Ethermine EU went offline for a few hours and there was a massive ruckus) or how copying a codebase (not that there’s anything wrong with doing that) and some vague promises of mobile mining should result in a new coin?

The only thing I can see going for it is the massive hype and fanbase surrounding it might just be the one thing that saves it. It certainly won’t be it’s technical merit (you can’t dismiss technical in crypto, can you...). Anyway I have a little holding on that vague chance - I haven’t totally dismissed it, I’m just not buying into it as much as some of the big holders.

Well said. Indeed it is rose tinted glas. And I am not denying that I am holding quite a good portion of ETN so I am obviously interested in the success of this coin.
And I am not denying technical aspects. But look at BTC. If it was an ICO these days it would be a complete mess. It is slow, it has extraordinary fees,... Monero is a far better technical base compared to Bitcoin. Zero proof protocol is groundbreaking and ZEC is doing okish. But compared to the disruptive technology it is underperforming.
At this point you have to admit that there must be more than just simple technical questions.

I see the huge opportunities for many businesses like telecom companies. Imagine if an african Vodafone would preinstall the app on all of their smartphones. If ETN just has little value they might attract a lot of people to buy from this provider. Actually it could make the phone bill pay itself.
I am far away from expecting it to moon. I dont see anything near 1$ in the next years because of the huge inflation caused by the perma airdrop. It also will not make huge instant jumps from one day to another. But with this viral bombs they can deliver they have the potential to attract a huge amount of people which would lead to partnerships with other companies.

And if I am wrong I will buy myself a really expensive bottle of whiskey to help me through my depressions  

Nice to see some sensible debate on this.

Question.  What about Electroneum's plans makes you think it can succeed where the hundreds of other projects that have attempted to crack the smart phone market have failed?

I mean, there are literally hundreds of projects with mobile wallets that work well.  Bitcoin for one! Transaction times too slow?  How about Dash?  Crown?  The list is endless.

But a wallet is not helping you, if you cant fill it. Imagine all the kids at school. All of them would install the app and send it from one to the other. Maybe some clever guys will sell homeworks for some ETN.
The fundamental difference is the perma airdrop which will not just give you an empty wallet but some coins to play around with.

edit: Have a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuoqZBp7B-E
It is not polished at all but the viral effect of the app shown here could be enormous. It is really worth the time to get an idea of the potential.

[invicta]

Actually nobody is forced to believe or invest in Electroneum. If you don't want it, just don't do it!

I am aware that there is a lot of FUD from monero lovers fearing that ETN might become a risk to there own investments.
There are also the complaints of the tech preachers who always want to have technical development in the middle of everything.

But I am sure that noone has to fear ETN. They will bring a lot of people from developing countries into the crypto market which will push every Monero wallet too.
and an innovation doesn't have to be pure technically. This is a huge experiment with a perma airdrop of coins to millions of people. Noone ever did it. Noone ever even thought of it. This is enough innovation for me. And I can't predict what will happen to exchange rates with this massive perma airdrop. But I am excited to watch it. I might lose my money I invested in it, but actually this is crypto. It is always a huge bet and a huge risk. That is what it makes it attractive to many people including myself.

Honestly, there’s too many rose-tinted glasses looking at this thing. There are some obvious questions that no-one has answered, like how giving coins to everyone is going to result in good intrinsic value, or why everyone is tolerating the wallet being offline for weeks (given that Ethermine EU went offline for a few hours and there was a massive ruckus) or how copying a codebase (not that there’s anything wrong with doing that) and some vague promises of mobile mining should result in a new coin?

The only thing I can see going for it is the massive hype and fanbase surrounding it might just be the one thing that saves it. It certainly won’t be it’s technical merit (you can’t dismiss technical in crypto, can you...). Anyway I have a little holding on that vague chance - I haven’t totally dismissed it, I’m just not buying into it as much as some of the big holders.

Well said. Indeed it is rose tinted glas. And I am not denying that I am holding quite a good portion of ETN so I am obviously interested in the success of this coin.
And I am not denying technical aspects. But look at BTC. If it was an ICO these days it would be a complete mess. It is slow, it has extraordinary fees,... Monero is a far better technical base compared to Bitcoin. Zero proof protocol is groundbreaking and ZEC is doing okish. But compared to the disruptive technology it is underperforming.
At this point you have to admit that there must be more than just simple technical questions.

I see the huge opportunities for many businesses like telecom companies. Imagine if an african Vodafone would preinstall the app on all of their smartphones. If ETN just has little value they might attract a lot of people to buy from this provider. Actually it could make the phone bill pay itself.
I am far away from expecting it to moon. I dont see anything near 1$ in the next years because of the huge inflation caused by the perma airdrop. It also will not make huge instant jumps from one day to another. But with this viral bombs they can deliver they have the potential to attract a huge amount of people which would lead to partnerships with other companies.

And if I am wrong I will buy myself a really expensive bottle of whiskey to help me through my depressions 

BTC is and always was a work-in-progress though, and frankly, I've heard many people refer to it more like 'digital gold' where it's a store of value rather than an instant payment system. One of the other coins can be the payment mechanism of the future.

None of these coins are perfect and I would definitely like to see something gain traction (preferably something I hold or mine) but Electroneum just seems to have been managed in such a cack-handed manner and the development team seem more interested in self-indulgent social media posts than development (seriously, launching merch and tying it in with charity seems like a low blow somewhat) - I've seen a few videos where Richard comes across as a bit of a bumbling buffoon rather than a technical genius too (um, do another take if you don't get it right the first time maybe)? They also haven't explained how they're going to achieve their goals, even if they want to put it in layman's terms, someone will want to see the technical implementation.

I don't think you can pre-install this on everyones' phones, this sounds like a botnet in the making and even if you somehow could, what's the value in absolutely everyone being able to 'mine' (I put it in quotes as it's not mining, it's some weird centralised token distribution thing which they have glossed over) something? If that could happen then I can't see it having much actual value if you just give the stuff to anyone 'smart enough' to buy a smartphone

Anyway, I'll wait and see. All I know is the mess with the launch is stuff they should have sorted before, not during and if it has to be during, then a hell of a lot quicker than they have. I almost dismissed Bitcoin before, I won't ever say something is useless or bad until I have the evidence but, from my end anyway, Electroneum definitely smells a bit off and you know what Occam's Razor says...

[benjaminoo]

Question.  What about Electroneum's plans makes you think it can succeed where the hundreds of other projects that have attempted to crack the smart phone market have failed?

I mean, there are literally hundreds of projects with mobile wallets that work well.  Bitcoin for one! Transaction times too slow?  How about Dash?  Crown?  The list is endless.

Electroneum is not only a mobile wallet, but a mobile miner. One that does not heat up your phone, cause your battery to drain quickly, or need a lot of disk space and data.

The difference between this and other coins is that every person will be able to get a small number of coins. This is perfect for newbies and noobs who've never heard of crypto before. It helps them get their feet wet. In addition, the accompanying mobile game is designed to teach them about cryptocurrencies and get them to mine with their desktops.

More users = more transactions = more businesses integrating ETN payments = better ETN ecosystem and increased value.

I've said many times in the past, the success of any coin lies in the number of users it has. If only 5% of US citizens used the dollar, would businesses go through the trouble of accepting it? Or would they rather accept a different currency which they can easily exchange for other currency/products/services? The more people that have the coin, the more valuable it becomes. Bitcoin managed to get about 3 million people involved in 7 years. If the ETN miner is as popular as many believe it will be, we will see this record broken very soon (there are already more than 400,000 accounts, 13% the user base of Bitcoin)!

[Tornand]

First, I will stop the quoting for now to make it more easy to follow the discussion which I am really enjoying! Thank you all for that.

I edited my first post with a link to a video about the app. Here again the link, so that you don't miss it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuoqZBp7B-E
Again, it is not a very well done video, but it gives you a very good idea about the potential. Absolutely worth the time to watch it.

In real world I am in IT for around 15 years now. I started as a system administrator and developed to IT project manager the last 5 years. From my experience one of the biggest problems is the complete underestimation of the complexity IT infrastructure has reached these days. Many people are just not able to overlook all the different challenges you are facing if your project is a bit bigger than making a word press blog with some pictures in it.
Additionally I had to deal with a lot of people from sales trying to convince me as a customer of their product. They promise you everything. It will be easy, it will be fast, everything is doable. And once you are making up a PoC you see that even the base functions you were asking for are not working as expected.
Because of that it is very unlikely that a serious company is sending you just a lonley sales guy these days. They are nearly always accompanied by a technical pre sales colleague just to prevent the customer from being too disappointed.

From this perspective I would say Richard is the proto type of the sales guy. He underestimated the size of the project, he could not stop himself from promising early release dates and he had no partner who told him the truth.

But that is not saying anything about the potential of the product. Actually I am feeling a lot better after he engaged Hackerone and started to come up with a (little) better time schedule.
It is a bit like when I became a father. When my first son was around the age of 4 it hit me once that this will last now for decades. It had been a more technical knowledge before.

What I want to say is that these technical delays are common in IT and it is not saying necessarily anything about the quality of a product.

[invicta]

Question.  What about Electroneum's plans makes you think it can succeed where the hundreds of other projects that have attempted to crack the smart phone market have failed?

I mean, there are literally hundreds of projects with mobile wallets that work well.  Bitcoin for one! Transaction times too slow?  How about Dash?  Crown?  The list is endless.

Electroneum is not only a mobile wallet, but a mobile miner. One that does not heat up your phone, cause your battery to drain quickly, or need a lot of disk space and data.

The difference between this and other coins is that every person will be able to get a small number of coins. This is perfect for newbies and noobs who've never heard of crypto before. It helps them get their feet wet. In addition, the accompanying mobile game is designed to teach them about cryptocurrencies and get them to mine with their desktops.

More users = more transactions = more businesses integrating ETN payments = better ETN ecosystem and increased value.

I've said many times in the past, the success of any coin lies in the number of users it has. If only 5% of US citizens used the dollar, would businesses go through the trouble of accepting it? Or would they rather accept a different currency which they can easily exchange for other currency/products/services? The more people that have the coin, the more valuable it becomes. Bitcoin managed to get about 3 million people involved in 7 years. If the ETN miner is as popular as many believe it will be, we will see this record broken very soon (there are already more than 400,000 accounts, 13% the user base of Bitcoin)!

Maybe. Like I said, it's going to be the hype and fanbase that save this project, certainly not the way it's been managed or the technical merits.

And I wish they'd stop calling it 'mobile mining', there is no actual mining or proof-of-work consensus going on, it's just an app that drip-feeds coins into your wallet - I almost feel like that alone is a massive simplification and dis-service to something that is actually moderately technical.

Engaging HackerOne shouldn't be too hard, they have so much money behind them now in the ICO but I'll wait and see.

I did watch the video, it was painful - it doesn't need to have perfect production values but I wouldn't even have bothered if that was going to be the end result, for goodness sake, do another take or split it into scenes if you can't do it properly in one or are going to bumble along like you don't know what you're talking about...

[AnaIyst]

I am not sure, but I would give often it to it a gimmick, unless you have cement proof.

[kevoh]

I bought some Electroneum (ETN) during the ICO and I'm yet to make use of it, since that wallet is yet to go live and Electroneum team keep talking about security and hacker one and other stuffs. They do try to keep in touch once in a while, so the answer to your question if it's a scam? Well, I can't say yes or no since there's still some slight chance of investors having their coins but what I would say is they have lost the momentum they gathered during the ICO and would need to do more, if ever they do not runaway with people's money, to bring back that momentum.

[Vishnu.Reang]

I do not know what country's electronic media you are talking about. It would be good to be specific. In ym country I have not heard about any such information. I still think this is a scam and I would be careful. It does not matter whether they have raised money or not. It takes time and perseverance to become good!!!!