Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest

[BayAreaCoins]

Maybe it's a good idea for anyone who likes the site to put it in the signature here on forum?

Absolutely a good idea.

[Timetwister]

0.00053230 BTC per CLAM, what a joke.

I bet I'm not the only investor that would be willing to pay more comission on the investment profits (not on staking*) to get some promotions running, that would for sure increase wagered and the value of CLAM (which depends completely on demand from players to gamble on Just Dice and from investors to invest there if it's attractive enough) at the same time.

Come on! Dooglus has a magnificient reputation (had the chance to steal a 60000+ BTC bankroll, put 1300 BTC from his pocket because of a mistake that probably investors wouldn't had noticed, has been in this forum for many years...) and this is one of the oldest dice sites, with even many regulars on the chat every day. The potential is much bigger than getting a ridiculously low wagered per day of about 1.25% of the bankroll. Sites like Safe Dice are getting a daily wagered of about 13% of the effective bankroll (which in terms of EV would be similar to 6.5% as house edge is 0.5% instead of JD's 1%), and it's newer and the admin doesn't even login here anymore.

*Investing is already barely better than just solo staking nowadays.

[Dabs]

I'd invest a good chunk of BTC, if only the site accepted it. But that's not going to happen soon, or at all anymore.

[Timetwister]

I'd invest a good chunk of BTC, if only the site accepted it. But that's not going to happen soon, or at all anymore.

Using CLAM is fine, as they are basically just like Just Dice shares/casino chips, so their value depends entirely on how much interest there's to gamble or invest on Just Dice. Therefore, it isn't vulnerable to "external" factors, and actually there's the possibility it starts having more uses and therefore becoming more valuable.

[Dabs]

I know what they are. It's still not the same. I was around when JD accepted testnet bitcoins. My account is #7. It may take awhile, and it's debatable what other uses CLAM can have that a thousand other different coins can't also have.

The point is that JD "shares/casino chips" don't have a fixed value relative to BTC or any other coin. Sure, I can have 600% CLAM gains, but the equivalent in other coins isn't 600%. Hopefully it's more, but seems to me it's less. For now.

That's not a fault of the site or of the coin, that's just the way it is.

[Timetwister]

I know what they are. It's still not the same. I was around when JD accepted testnet bitcoins. My account is #7. It may take awhile, and it's debatable what other uses CLAM can have that a thousand other different coins can't also have.

The point is that JD "shares/casino chips" don't have a fixed value relative to BTC or any other coin. Sure, I can have 600% CLAM gains, but the equivalent in other coins isn't 600%. Hopefully it's more, but seems to me it's less. For now.

That's not a fault of the site or of the coin, that's just the way it is.

They don't have a fixed value relative to anything else (just like shares in a company don't, their price depends on the future expected earnings), but if everything stays the same it's reasonable to expect the market cap to have an stable USD value. And therefore returns in terms of USD are quite decent, around 20% per year after considering CLAM inflation. In BTC it has been terrible recently (I even traded some BTC for CLAM at the recent 0.002 peak, so you can imagine the size of the debacle in terms of BTC), but long term it should be stable as long as at least wagered in relation to bankroll doesn't decrease. And its value would considerable increase if somehow the casino had more action (or the currency was used somewhere else). The potential is there, it's just a matter of marketing. I wonder if other big investors read this thread and would like to run some promotions to both make CLAM more valuable and get higher returns by investing on Just Dice. I would be in.

[jonathan3306]

The site down for anyone else?

[Josepht]

The site down for anyone else?

Nope, it's on your end.

[Timetwister]

The site down for anyone else?

It works for me.

Also, regarding returns, they have been fantastic in terms of USD (unless, so far, you invested recently). However this is in part thanks to just every cryptocurrency rising in price because BTC did. So, when investing I just estimate the market cap has a constant value in USD (in practice it has been much better than that).

[Timetwister]

Shortly after introducing the concept of "offsite investment", I made another account and invested at 25x there. I haven't adjusted the offsite amount since then. It is currently sitting at just 11.21x, as the onsite amount grows while the offsite amount stays exactly constant.

The weekly returns (in the same format as in the previous post) have been as follows:

Mar  7 2015     0.00%   100.00%
Mar  9 2015     0.64%   100.64%
Mar 16 2015     2.53%   103.18%
Mar 23 2015     4.01%   107.32%
Mar 30 2015     2.06%   109.53%
Apr  6 2015     2.51%   112.27%
Apr 13 2015     2.48%   115.05%
Apr 20 2015     1.42%   116.69%
Apr 27 2015     3.43%   120.69%
May  4 2015     0.52%   121.32%
May 11 2015     0.94%   122.46%
May 18 2015     0.37%   122.91%
May 25 2015     5.65%   129.86%
Jun  1 2015     4.59%   135.83%
Jun  8 2015     4.12%   141.42%
Jun 15 2015     2.00%   144.25%
Jun 22 2015     3.48%   149.28%
Jun 29 2015    -3.45%   144.13%
Jul  6 2015     1.81%   146.73%
Jul 13 2015     0.72%   147.79%
Jul 20 2015    10.40%   163.16%
Jul 27 2015     3.62%   169.07%
Aug  3 2015     2.59%   173.44%
Aug 10 2015     2.92%   178.51%
Aug 17 2015     1.87%   181.85%
Aug 24 2015     1.66%   184.88%
Aug 31 2015     2.90%   190.25%
Sep  7 2015     2.23%   194.50%
Sep 14 2015     1.45%   197.33%
Sep 21 2015     1.30%   199.90%
Sep 28 2015    -0.78%   198.34%
Oct  5 2015     1.86%   202.03%
Oct 12 2015     2.43%   206.95%
Oct 19 2015    -1.08%   204.71%
Oct 26 2015     3.26%   211.38%
Nov  2 2015     0.12%   211.64%
Nov  9 2015     1.09%   213.95%
Nov 16 2015     0.00%   213.96%
Nov 23 2015     1.86%   217.94%
Nov 30 2015     1.30%   220.77%
Dec  7 2015     1.67%   224.46%
Dec 13 2015     0.63%   225.87%
Dec 21 2015     0.77%   227.60%
Dec 28 2015     0.58%   228.92%
Jan  4 2016     0.88%   230.92%
Jan 11 2016     1.28%   233.88%
Jan 18 2016     1.44%   237.25%
Jan 25 2016     1.10%   239.86%
Feb  1 2016     0.91%   242.06%
Feb  8 2016     0.97%   244.40%
Feb 15 2016     2.90%   251.48%
Feb 22 2016     4.33%   262.38%
Feb 29 2016     0.76%   264.37%
Mar  7 2016     1.19%   267.51%
Mar 14 2016     0.66%   269.29%
Mar 21 2016     1.01%   272.02%
Mar 28 2016     1.64%   276.47%
Apr  4 2016     1.20%   279.78%
Apr 11 2016     0.18%   280.27%
Apr 18 2016     0.95%   282.93%
Apr 25 2016     0.94%   285.60%
May  2 2016     0.88%   288.10%
May  9 2016     0.57%   289.75%
May 16 2016     1.49%   294.06%
May 23 2016     3.44%   304.17%
May 30 2016     0.49%   305.66%
Jun  6 2016     1.18%   309.26%
Jun 13 2016     0.27%   310.11%
Jun 20 2016     2.37%   317.45%
Jun 27 2016     1.20%   321.27%
Jul  4 2016     1.19%   325.09%
Jul 11 2016     0.76%   327.57%
Jul 18 2016     0.37%   328.79%
Jul 25 2016     1.07%   332.32%
Aug  1 2016     0.80%   334.98%
Aug  8 2016     0.73%   337.42%
Aug 15 2016     0.61%   339.47%
Aug 22 2016     1.04%   343.00%
Aug 29 2016     1.00%   346.44%
Sep  5 2016     0.76%   349.06%
Sep 12 2016     0.73%   351.59%
Sep 19 2016     1.08%   355.38%
Sep 26 2016     0.79%   358.18%
Oct  3 2016     0.63%   360.45%
Oct 10 2016     0.78%   363.28%
Oct 17 2016     0.55%   365.29%
Oct 24 2016     1.90%   372.21%
Oct 31 2016     0.54%   374.21%
Nov  7 2016     1.16%   378.54%
Nov 14 2016     1.17%   382.98%
Nov 21 2016     0.70%   385.67%
Nov 28 2016     0.50%   387.59%
Dec  5 2016     0.64%   390.07%
Dec 12 2016     0.69%   392.75%
Dec 19 2016     1.09%   397.02%
Dec 26 2016     0.79%   400.17%
Jan  2 2017     0.54%   402.35%
Jan  9 2017     0.20%   403.15%
Jan 16 2017     0.69%   405.93%
Jan 23 2017     0.72%   408.85%
Jan 30 2017     0.63%   411.41%
Feb  6 2017     0.73%   414.43%
Feb 13 2017     0.56%   416.77%
Feb 20 2017     0.44%   418.59%
Feb 27 2017     0.40%   420.25%
Mar  6 2017     0.72%   423.29%
Mar 13 2017     1.25%   428.57%
Mar 20 2017     0.36%   430.11%
Mar 27 2017     0.67%   433.01%
Apr  3 2017     1.58%   439.86%
Apr 10 2017     0.97%   444.14%
Apr 17 2017     0.98%   448.51%
Apr 24 2017     0.86%   452.34%
May  1 2017     0.97%   456.72%
May  8 2017     1.13%   461.88%
May 15 2017     1.58%   469.17%
May 22 2017     1.20%   474.79%
May 29 2017     1.03%   479.71%
Jun  5 2017     1.05%   484.75%
Jun 12 2017     1.40%   491.55%
Jun 19 2017     0.86%   495.79%
Jun 26 2017     1.31%   502.28%
Jul  3 2017     1.13%   507.93%
Jul 10 2017     0.71%   511.55%
Jul 17 2017    -0.28%   510.10%
Jul 24 2017     3.27%   526.76%
Jul 31 2017     0.93%   531.63%
Aug  7 2017    -0.29%   530.10%
Aug 14 2017     0.98%   535.28%
Aug 21 2017     0.98%   540.50%
Aug 28 2017     1.75%   549.95%
Sep  4 2017     1.07%   555.85%
Sep 11 2017     0.72%   559.83%
Sep 18 2017     0.56%   562.95%
Sep 25 2017     0.87%   567.84%
Oct  2 2017     0.69%   571.73%
Oct  9 2017     0.94%   577.09%
Oct 16 2017     0.89%   582.22%
Oct 23 2017     0.92%   587.55%
Oct 30 2017     1.25%   594.92%
Nov  6 2017     0.50%   597.89%
Nov 13 2017     0.83%   602.86%
Nov 20 2017     1.02%   609.00%
Nov 27 2017     1.03%   615.26%

Using this data (and prices from https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/clams/ and https://www.investing.com/currencies/btc-usd-historical-data):

7/3/2015:
1 CLAM= $1.72
1 BTC=$277

27/11/2017: 6.1526 CLAM=6.1526*7.42=$45.65; 45.65/1.72=26.54
1 BTC=$5759.6; 5759.6/277=20.79

So in that period of time, returns were not just fantastic (actually they would be a bit better if leverage had been regularly adjusted to 25) in terms of $ but even better than holding BTC. However, if we made the exact same comparison now, BTC would had been a better investment, as it has nearly tripled from late November, while CLAM has slightly dropped.

How much of that price increase, from $1.72 to $7.42 (or more accurately, market cap from $972984 to $20274537, multiplying by 20.84) was caused because of BTC's price increase? Let's check an end point where BTC hadn't risen as much yet:

2/1/2017: 4.0235 CLAM=4.0235*0.849111=$3.416; 3.416/1.72=1.99
1 BTC=$1019.3; 1019.3/277=3.68

In most cases just holding BTC would had been a better strategy. That shouldn't surprise anyone, just holding BTC has been one of the most profitable strategies in the world in the last years. However, I wonder how would had Just Dice returns been if BTC had stayed flat or if it had had more modest and sustainable returns.

If someone was comparing returns from buying CLAM and investing them on JD to those of other investments, then JD has been a fantastic choice. What can we expect in the future?

As long as people keep playing on Just Dice, returns in terms of fiat should be quite good. From my estimates, assuming CLAM's market cap stays constant (which is very conservative), by staking and investing, I expect a 20% annual return in USD. If we consider that CLAM's market cap is positively correlated with BTC's and that it will keep rising (but obviously not at the gigantic rate we have seen until now), then returns in USD would be even higher.

If BTC dropped and that caused CLAM to drop, that could actually increase the demand for this coin by players, as to be able to gamble the same amount of $ you have to buy more CLAM (and the fact that more CLAM are wagered makes buying CLAM by investors also more attractive, so demand also increases by investors).

So all in all, both buying CLAM to stake or to invest them at Just Dice sounds like a good investment to me, and it's in some way diversified from just holding BTC. Long term, as long as people keep playing at Just Dice, I'd expect bigger returns from buying CLAM and investing them than by holding BTC. Also there's the possibility that CLAM starts getting more uses, which would indirectly affect positively those investing at Just Dice.

[jpcfan]

herpes spreads when you dont use condoms








we just need herpes to spread to 10 others whales and JD will be fine

[Timetwister]

we just need herpes to spread to 10 others whales and JD will be fine

I wonder how we could get more action, I'm sure Just Dice has way more potential.

[technerd]

we just need herpes to spread to 10 others whales and JD will be fine

I wonder how we could get more action, I'm sure Just Dice has way more potential.

I agree. Such a nice site, would be good to have more users.  Perhaps place an ads on relevant websites?

Yesterday (Jan 13), noticed amount wagered is about 2.1k...seems like one of the slowest day in the past few months.

[andulolika]

we just need herpes to spread to 10 others whales and JD will be fine

I wonder how we could get more action, I'm sure Just Dice has way more potential.

If you want wales make sure they can get in-out for a similar price without losing thousands.

[technerd]

we just need herpes to spread to 10 others whales and JD will be fine

I wonder how we could get more action, I'm sure Just Dice has way more potential.

If you want wales make sure they can get in-out for a similar price without losing thousands.

Isn't that kind of a chicken and egg...market-driven supply and demand forces at play.

[Onomsum]

how about leverage additional coins to use as clam? and then winnings are in clams, and loses get sold off for clam  
this way if an exchange is down, players can go without waiting

[Timetwister]

how about leverage additional coins to use as clam? and then winnings are in clams, and loses get sold off for clam  
this way if an exchange is down, players can go without waiting

What do you mean, an exchange inside the casino, like in Crypto Games or Luckygames?

[technerd]

how about leverage additional coins to use as clam? and then winnings are in clams, and loses get sold off for clam  
this way if an exchange is down, players can go without waiting

What do you mean, an exchange inside the casino, like in Crypto Games or Luckygames?

In my opinion, may not be a bad idea to have an exchange that's centered around clams. That way it'll be easy for people who don't have clams, but have btc or other coins, to convert and start playing immediately.

Just my 2 cents...

[Timetwister]

how about leverage additional coins to use as clam? and then winnings are in clams, and loses get sold off for clam  
this way if an exchange is down, players can go without waiting

What do you mean, an exchange inside the casino, like in Crypto Games or Luckygames?

In my opinion, may not be a bad idea to have an exchange that's centered around clams. That way it'll be easy for people who don't have clams, but have btc or other coins, to convert and start playing immediately.

Just my 2 cents...

If it's logistically possible, I don't see why not. However bid/ask spreads would be big unless the casino acts as a market maker by buying/selling in other exchanges too, like I guess is being done at other casinos.

[marilyn4325]

how about leverage additional coins to use as clam? and then winnings are in clams, and loses get sold off for clam  
this way if an exchange is down, players can go without waiting

The other way exists already: a dice inside an exchange, see yobit.net . I know, it is not the most reputable exchange, but I guess it works.