Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest

[ranlo]

I'm not him but if 350 CLAMs = 1 bitcoin (roughly), then what difference does it make whether people have invested 350,000 CLAMs or 1,000 BTC?

How does switching to a lower-value coin like CLAMs prevent people from depositing too much money? Wouldn't people take into account the lower value of the CLAMs vs. BTC and just gamble/invest more CLAMs (thus depositing the same amount of money)?

If I understood correctly there is also a fiscal aspect that brought JD stop operating in btc and now reopening adopting clams: it was due to the fact that tc may be easily and directing traded for USD meanwhile CLAM still not.

But I may be completely wrong because I vaguely remember something like this but I really can't say where I read it.

Doog had basically said it (when he said he was closing due to legislation changes in Canada -- I believe it was CA) back when he closed JD originally.

[picolo]

Seems fortunejack will start accepting CLAM from next week. Great news for CLAM.

More websites accepting CLAM is bullish on CLAM but as it is more known people will dig their CLAM so more coins will find their way to the exchanges.

JD is ONLY accepting CLAM which means you need to buy/dig CLAM to play on JD.

Its actually bullish for the price. But dont know, Might be good. Just like when JD started accepting CLAM , prices went up.
So it wouldnt necessarily mean that prices will go down.

If the demand is stable and the supply goes up the price will go down.

Updates on JD/CLAM

Current # of dug CLAMS = 385,216
Price at Polinex 0.003 (CLAM/BTC) *$333 (USD/BTC) = $384K Market Cap (** Does not include undug)

JD Wagered - 808101 CLAMs in 18 days * .01 (House Edge) *365 Days = 163864 CLAM a Year Profit for Site
163864*.003*333 = $163701 USD Profit
Doog gets 10% of Profit - Doogs take $16k USD (fees)

Doog's Big take is Stake
1000 CLAM a day staked at JD * 10% = 100 Clam a day *
100*.003*333=$100 USD * 365 = $36500 a year (MORE THAN GAMBLING PROFIT FEES)

If the price of CLAM, amount of CLAM wagered, luck stay the same it would mean the investors would get 520k CLAM (-10%) so a 140% profit. Hum Hum

[seuntjie]

Seuntjie DiceBot Update:

  added support for http://safedice.com
  changed the way simulations are run. They will now be accurate to your simulation
  Fixed Zig zag bug (again)
  fixed reset seed bug on 999dice
  fixed charts
  added bet verification algorithms for other sites and fixed JDs.
  added a quick way to switch between algorithms. See  for details.

Newest Version: 2.5.4
Complete download: http://sourceforge.net/projects/seuntjiejddb/files/Complete%20Release/DiceBot-2.5.4.zip/download
         alternate link: http://www.seuntjie.com/Downloads/DiceBot-2.5.4.zip
Update only: http://sourceforge.net/projects/seuntjiejddb/files/Update%20Only/DiceBot-2.5.4.exe/download (replace previous .exe with this one, requires v2.5 or newer)
         alternate link: http://www.seuntjie.com/Downloads/DiceBot-2.5.4.exe

Source available at: https://sourceforge.net/p/seuntjiejddb/code/ci/master/tree/

Full bot details: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=307425
See Beginners guide! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=391870

[BayAreaCoins]

Can someone fix my signature as a full Member

High level BTC memebers-

♦  Open!  ♦  ♦  Just-Dice.com  ♦   ♦  1% House Edge Dice Game  ♦   ♦  Play or Invest  ♦
If you had Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin on May 12, 2014 then the chances are you have free CLAM to claim! Check Just-dice FAQ!

Ya dude I can help you.

Code:

[center][size=8pt][font=Arial][b][glow=#6a6,2,300][url=https://just-dice.com][color=#fff]♦  [u]Open![/u]  ♦ [/color][/url][/glow]  [size=8pt][font=Arial][b][glow=#6a6,2,300][url=https://just-dice.com][color=#fff]♦  Just-Dice.com  ♦ [/color][/url][/glow]  [glow=#6a6,2,300][url=https://just-dice.com][color=#fff] ♦  1% House Edge Dice Game  ♦ [/color][/url][/glow]  [glow=#6a6,2,300][url=https://just-dice.com][color=#fff] ♦  Play or Invest  ♦ [/color][/url][/glow][/b][/font][/size]
If you had Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin on May 12, 2014 then the chances are you have free CLAM to claim! Check Just-dice FAQ!
www.MyFreeClams.com

Are you using this one? ^

If so try this one:

Code:

[center][size=8pt][font=Arial][b][url=https://just-dice.com][color=green]♦  [u]Open![/u]  ♦ [/color][/url]  [size=8pt][font=Arial][b][url=https://just-dice.com][color=green]♦  Just-Dice.com  ♦ [/color][/url]  [url=https://just-dice.com][color=green] ♦  1% House Edge Dice Game  ♦ [/color][/url]  [url=https://just-dice.com][color=green] ♦  Play or Invest  ♦ [/color][/url][/b][/font][/size]
If you had Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin on May 12, 2014 then the chances are you have free CLAM to claim! Check Just-dice FAQ!
www.MyFreeClams.com

♦  Open!  ♦  ♦  Just-Dice.com  ♦   ♦  1% House Edge Dice Game  ♦   ♦  Play or Invest  ♦
If you had Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin on May 12, 2014 then the chances are you have free CLAM to claim! Check Just-dice FAQ!
www.myFreeClams.com

[dooglus]

Updates on JD/CLAM

Current # of dug CLAMS = 385,216
Price at Polinex 0.003 (CLAM/BTC) *$333 (USD/BTC) = $384K Market Cap (** Does not include undug)

JD Wagered - 808101 CLAMs in 18 days * .01 (House Edge) *365 Days = 163864 CLAM a Year Profit for Site
163864*.003*333 = $163701 USD Profit
Doog gets 10% of Profit - Doogs take $16k USD (fees)

Doog's Big take is Stake
1000 CLAM a day staked at JD * 10% = 100 Clam a day *
100*.003*333=$100 USD * 365 = $36500 a year (MORE THAN GAMBLING PROFIT FEES)

This guy just wins MATH

I imagine the way it is meant to work is that staking causes monetary base inflation, which causes the price to decrease accordingly.

If everybody staked, they would be "running to stand still" - their number of CLAM would increase at the same rate that the price decreased, and they would retain the same value. So you can't just take 10% of the amount staked, multiply by the current price, and say that's my expected take, as the very act of staking increases the supply, and so drops the price.

Either way your conclusion that the amount staked is expected to be more than the amount won from players seems valid - at least as long as JD continues to hold such a large percentage of the active coins.

I plan to finally implement the feature that will allow investors to hold the majority of their coins locally, so that should change the situation. It's not healthy for a single entity (even one as amazing as JD ) to control the majority of the coins, so I'll do what I can to fix that.

[ranlo]

Updates on JD/CLAM

Current # of dug CLAMS = 385,216
Price at Polinex 0.003 (CLAM/BTC) *$333 (USD/BTC) = $384K Market Cap (** Does not include undug)

JD Wagered - 808101 CLAMs in 18 days * .01 (House Edge) *365 Days = 163864 CLAM a Year Profit for Site
163864*.003*333 = $163701 USD Profit
Doog gets 10% of Profit - Doogs take $16k USD (fees)

Doog's Big take is Stake
1000 CLAM a day staked at JD * 10% = 100 Clam a day *
100*.003*333=$100 USD * 365 = $36500 a year (MORE THAN GAMBLING PROFIT FEES)

This guy just wins MATH

I imagine the way it is meant to work is that staking causes monetary base inflation, which causes the price to decrease accordingly.

If everybody staked, they would be "running to stand still" - their number of CLAM would increase at the same rate that the price decreased, and they would retain the same value. So you can't just take 10% of the amount staked, multiply by the current price, and say that's my expected take, as the very act of staking increases the supply, and so drops the price.

Either way your conclusion that the amount staked is expected to be more than the amount won from players seems valid - at least as long as JD continues to hold such a large percentage of the active coins.

I plan to finally implement the feature that will allow investors to hold the majority of their coins locally, so that should change the situation. It's not healthy for a single entity (even one as amazing as JD ) to control the majority of the coins, so I'll do what I can to fix that.

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

[chilly2k]

Updates on JD/CLAM

Current # of dug CLAMS = 385,216
Price at Polinex 0.003 (CLAM/BTC) *$333 (USD/BTC) = $384K Market Cap (** Does not include undug)

JD Wagered - 808101 CLAMs in 18 days * .01 (House Edge) *365 Days = 163864 CLAM a Year Profit for Site
163864*.003*333 = $163701 USD Profit
Doog gets 10% of Profit - Doogs take $16k USD (fees)

Doog's Big take is Stake
1000 CLAM a day staked at JD * 10% = 100 Clam a day *
100*.003*333=$100 USD * 365 = $36500 a year (MORE THAN GAMBLING PROFIT FEES)

This guy just wins MATH

I imagine the way it is meant to work is that staking causes monetary base inflation, which causes the price to decrease accordingly.

If everybody staked, they would be "running to stand still" - their number of CLAM would increase at the same rate that the price decreased, and they would retain the same value. So you can't just take 10% of the amount staked, multiply by the current price, and say that's my expected take, as the very act of staking increases the supply, and so drops the price.

Either way your conclusion that the amount staked is expected to be more than the amount won from players seems valid - at least as long as JD continues to hold such a large percentage of the active coins.

I plan to finally implement the feature that will allow investors to hold the majority of their coins locally, so that should change the situation. It's not healthy for a single entity (even one as amazing as JD ) to control the majority of the coins, so I'll do what I can to fix that.

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

   I asked the same question in another forum topic.

If you put 30 clams in and say you have 300, that's 10% of your total bag.  If the total invested drops by 10% your investment drops by 10% also. 10% of 300 clams = 30 clams so your wiped out and lose your 30 clams.  If you just claimed 30 clams.   10% of 30 clams is 3 clams so you would still have 27 clams invested.   

JD doesn't real care how much you actually have.  The bigger the percentage you claim the more volatile you investment will be.  And once the real investment amount goes to zero you lose it,  there is no coming back from it.     

[ranlo]

Updates on JD/CLAM

Current # of dug CLAMS = 385,216
Price at Polinex 0.003 (CLAM/BTC) *$333 (USD/BTC) = $384K Market Cap (** Does not include undug)

JD Wagered - 808101 CLAMs in 18 days * .01 (House Edge) *365 Days = 163864 CLAM a Year Profit for Site
163864*.003*333 = $163701 USD Profit
Doog gets 10% of Profit - Doogs take $16k USD (fees)

Doog's Big take is Stake
1000 CLAM a day staked at JD * 10% = 100 Clam a day *
100*.003*333=$100 USD * 365 = $36500 a year (MORE THAN GAMBLING PROFIT FEES)

This guy just wins MATH

I imagine the way it is meant to work is that staking causes monetary base inflation, which causes the price to decrease accordingly.

If everybody staked, they would be "running to stand still" - their number of CLAM would increase at the same rate that the price decreased, and they would retain the same value. So you can't just take 10% of the amount staked, multiply by the current price, and say that's my expected take, as the very act of staking increases the supply, and so drops the price.

Either way your conclusion that the amount staked is expected to be more than the amount won from players seems valid - at least as long as JD continues to hold such a large percentage of the active coins.

I plan to finally implement the feature that will allow investors to hold the majority of their coins locally, so that should change the situation. It's not healthy for a single entity (even one as amazing as JD ) to control the majority of the coins, so I'll do what I can to fix that.

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

   I asked the same question in another forum topic.

If you put 30 clams in and say you have 300, that's 10% of your total bag.  If the total invested drops by 10% your investment drops by 10% also. 10% of 300 clams = 30 clams so your wiped out and lose your 30 clams.  If you just claimed 30 clams.   10% of 30 clams is 3 clams so you would still have 27 clams invested.   

JD doesn't real care how much you actually have.  The bigger the percentage you claim the more volatile you investment will be.  And once the real investment amount goes to zero you lose it,  there is no coming back from it.     

Ahhh, that's interesting! I didn't think about it like that, but it makes a lot of sense. So basically you can choose, should you want to... to play the high-risk version of saying you have much more than you do. If the site profits, you make a lot more. If it doesn't, you lose it all.

[dooglus]

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

There's nothing to stop you lying about how many coins you hold locally, but it would be fooling to claim you have more coins that you really do, because you'll end up risking too much and the volatility will bust you.

JD won't let you lose more than you actually deposit, so it's up to you.

I didn't work out all the details yet, but will be working on it for the next week or so.

[ranlo]

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

There's nothing to stop you lying about how many coins you hold locally, but it would be fooling to claim you have more coins that you really do, because you'll end up risking too much and the volatility will bust you.

JD won't let you lose more than you actually deposit, so it's up to you.

I didn't work out all the details yet, but will be working on it for the next week or so.

Yeah, someone had replied to me basically saying the same thing. I wasn't thinking about it from that perspective. It's an awesome idea to do and allows investors to choose their risk even better, as well as fabricate numbers and just buy in for the difference (i.e., I have 30 coins, I say I have 300, I lose the 30 I had, so I just use an exchange to buy more and reinvest).

[dooglus]

Yeah, someone had replied to me basically saying the same thing. I wasn't thinking about it from that perspective. It's an awesome idea to do and allows investors to choose their risk even better, as well as fabricate numbers and just buy in for the difference (i.e., I have 30 coins, I say I have 300, I lose the 30 I had, so I just use an exchange to buy more and reinvest).

I hadn't thought about it that way, but yeah that works too.

"I want to invest 10k CLAMs, but I don't actually want to buy them all yet. So I'll buy 100 and invest those, and hopefully I win and don't need to buy the rest, but if I lose I'll buy some more".

[ranlo]

Yeah, someone had replied to me basically saying the same thing. I wasn't thinking about it from that perspective. It's an awesome idea to do and allows investors to choose their risk even better, as well as fabricate numbers and just buy in for the difference (i.e., I have 30 coins, I say I have 300, I lose the 30 I had, so I just use an exchange to buy more and reinvest).

I hadn't thought about it that way, but yeah that works too.

"I want to invest 10k CLAMs, but I don't actually want to buy them all yet. So I'll buy 100 and invest those, and hopefully I win and don't need to buy the rest, but if I lose I'll buy some more".

Exactly. Dice Investments in Dice. It's a unique offering, too, .

[picolo]

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

There's nothing to stop you lying about how many coins you hold locally, but it would be fooling to claim you have more coins that you really do, because you'll end up risking too much and the volatility will bust you.

JD won't let you lose more than you actually deposit, so it's up to you.

I didn't work out all the details yet, but will be working on it for the next week or so.

If investments are marked are 10 times what they are and the players are lucky, most investors will not keep depositing and the bankroll will dry up.

[chilly2k]

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

There's nothing to stop you lying about how many coins you hold locally, but it would be fooling to claim you have more coins that you really do, because you'll end up risking too much and the volatility will bust you.

JD won't let you lose more than you actually deposit, so it's up to you.

I didn't work out all the details yet, but will be working on it for the next week or so.

If investments are marked are 10 times what they are and the players are lucky, most investors will not keep depositing and the bankroll will dry up.

  The investors will have that option.  For those that want less risk, then they should not claim more clams then they have, or just the amount they deposit.  

On a side note: Your claimed amount is also increasing the Max bet amount.  That means the more you claim the more you're increasing the chance that you bust.
 
  I don't know if Doog will implement a .5% or 99.5% limit (however you look at it.), on claimed amounts.  The max bet is .5% of the bankroll.  So claiming you have more then that would cause the max bet to increase more then your actual investment, and would cause others to potentially lose coins.    

interesting dilemma...    

[picolo]

The issue with your idea of holding coins locally is... what's to keep me from saying I have more than I do? Let's say you use 10% as the baseline. I have 30 coins. There's no way for you to know I don't really have 300, so I could just invest the 30 I have and claim I have 10x that.

There's nothing to stop you lying about how many coins you hold locally, but it would be fooling to claim you have more coins that you really do, because you'll end up risking too much and the volatility will bust you.

JD won't let you lose more than you actually deposit, so it's up to you.

I didn't work out all the details yet, but will be working on it for the next week or so.

If investments are marked are 10 times what they are and the players are lucky, most investors will not keep depositing and the bankroll will dry up.

  The investors will have that option.  For those that want less risk, then they should not claim more clams then they have, or just the amount they deposit.  

On a side note: Your claimed amount is also increasing the Max bet amount.  That means the more you claim the more you're increasing the chance that you bust.
 
  I don't know if Doog will implement a .5% or 99.5% limit (however you look at it.), on claimed amounts.  The max bet is .5% of the bankroll.  So claiming you have more then that would cause the max bet to increase more then your actual investment, and would cause others to potentially lose coins.    

interesting dilemma...    

Claiming more coins that you have will cause other to lose OR WIN more coins.

If you can deposit 100CLAM and have 20,000CLAM invested it will be pretty crazy because if you are lucky you can make a fortune

[Josepht]

I don't get this idea (tell them you have 30, while you have actually 300).

What if there is a lucky winner who wins 15% of the bankroll. You have invested 300, so you'll lose 45 coins. That is not possible, since you only have 30 coins.

Have you thought about this?

[pureelite]

nice to see that JD got new chat features

hoping to see a lot more!

[chilly2k]

I don't get this idea (tell them you have 30, while you have actually 300).

What if there is a lucky winner who wins 15% of the bankroll. You have invested 300, so you'll lose 45 coins. That is not possible, since you only have 30 coins.

Have you thought about this?

  If someone gets lucky, and your bankroll goes to zero (because your leveraged) your busted.  Once you lose your 30 coins, the other 270 that you claimed you had would be removed from the JD bankroll, and the maxbet would be adjusted to the new bankroll.  Just as if you lost the whole 300, but you only lost 30.   

[ranlo]

I don't get this idea (tell them you have 30, while you have actually 300).

What if there is a lucky winner who wins 15% of the bankroll. You have invested 300, so you'll lose 45 coins. That is not possible, since you only have 30 coins.

Have you thought about this?

  If someone gets lucky, and your bankroll goes to zero (because your leveraged) your busted.  Once you lose your 30 coins, the other 270 that you claimed you had would be removed from the JD bankroll, and the maxbet would be adjusted to the new bankroll.  Just as if you lost the whole 300, but you only lost 30.   

Actually, his question was a great one and something my mind skipped over. Let me help him illustrate the scenario better (a theoretical one, as it would be unlikely to work this way, BUT still possible nonetheless).

For this, we're going to use 2 investors and a max winning of 5% of the pot.

Investor A puts in 10 CLAM, claiming he has 100.
Investor B puts in 10 CLAM, claiming he has 900.

Someone puts in a bet and on the first time wins the 5%. This is 5% of 1000, or 50 CLAM.

The issue here, as you'll see, is that the winnable amount is more than there actually are. In other words, the person that just won 50 CLAM actually only won 20, while taking a much greater risk to do so.

This is where the issues come in. Now theoretically this wouldn't happen as most investors would keep on a 1:1 ratio and therefore it shouldn't be problematic. But if an investing whale comes in and boosts it (or a couple do), it could result in the majority of the bankroll, if not more than there are, being lost.

Dooglus, had you already considered this scenario and how it would be handled? Again, it's a small chance, but any chance should be accounted for because let's face it: things happen.

[dooglus]

Dooglus, had you already considered this scenario and how it would be handled? Again, it's a small chance, but any chance should be accounted for because let's face it: things happen.

Yes, you won't be allowed to risk more than you have on deposit.

If the max profit was 5% then it would be silly for JD to let you leverage by more than 20x.