Assault weapon bans

[Equilux]

By your "definition" Somalia is probably the most free country in the world; guns are prolific and government is virtually non existed.

As for Somalia.. you're mixing up godless individuals with freedom.  Yes, they are free.  And they are abusing it.  See my earlier statements about the only solution is Godly individuals.  Every possible combination works with God.  None work without.

M

Ah I see, you aren't just misinformed, or slightly misguided, you are just an idiotic racist bigot, and arguing with you might even be counterproductive since you're the kind of close-minded fool who'll simply interpret everything which is said to mean you are more right. I should have known after the completely out of place Hitler reference.

I'd usually say goodbye, but in your case I'll say Fuck Off.

[mdude77]

By your "definition" Somalia is probably the most free country in the world; guns are prolific and government is virtually non existed.

As for Somalia.. you're mixing up godless individuals with freedom.  Yes, they are free.  And they are abusing it.  See my earlier statements about the only solution is Godly individuals.  Every possible combination works with God.  None work without.

M

Ah I see, you aren't just misinformed, or slightly misguided, you are just an idiotic racist bigot, and arguing with you might even be counterproductive since you're the kind of close-minded fool who'll simply interpret everything which is said to mean you are more right. I should have known after the completely out of place Hitler reference.

I'd usually say goodbye, but in your case I'll say Fuck Off.

lol

Chill dude.  Must have hit a nerve there.

M

EDIT: It's always telling when people resort to name calling.

[uMMcQxCWELNzkt]

By your "definition" Somalia is probably the most free country in the world; guns are prolific and government is virtually non existed.

As for Somalia.. you're mixing up godless individuals with freedom.  Yes, they are free.  And they are abusing it.  See my earlier statements about the only solution is Godly individuals.  Every possible combination works with God.  None work without.

M

Except for science. 

[Spendulus]

....an idiotic racist bigot, and arguing with you might even be counterproductive since you're the kind of close-minded fool who'll simply interpret everything which is said to mean you are more right. I should have known after the completely out of place Hitler reference.

I'd usually say goodbye, but in your case I'll say Fuck Off.

lol.....It's always telling when people resort to name calling.

So far let's see from the authoritarian gun control liberal freaks we've got a growing collection....

• NRAcrackers
• pics of kids holding AR15s....ALWAYS WHITE
• idiotic racist bigot

Must mean something but I can't think of what.  Oh well. Me?  I'm PRO CHOICE.  Pro choice to buy and carry your gun, or not.

Except for science. 

I don't know about Original Sin, but someone did a pretty good job of Original Science.

LOL...

[bernard75]

Unfortunatly Not surprising the dumb racist comments came from the Pro Death faction.

[Rampion]

In the UK teachers and most police don't have guns, the problem is American gun culture. To be fair though, your police are so insane that I don't blame you for wanting guns to feel safe, it is all the US knows. We are much safer here without guns.

The UK also has a much higher violent crime rate and that rate has increased over the last 20 years.  In the US most burglaries are committed on unoccupied residences, in the UK most burglaries involve occupied ones.

The violent crime rate in the West (including UK) has been decreasing steadily during the last 20 years:

[iCEBREAKER]

I do have protection though. Do you think guns will protect you from your government or an invading country? What is your rifle going to do against a warship, a jet fighter? Some Americans, no offence tend to have a distorted view of the rest of the world. The only reason the UK still has enemies in my opinion is because we keep following your war path, the Queen has nothing to do with me as far as I am concerned. I would argue we have far more rights then the US, if you think we are owned by the Queen then your are owned by the IRS, Microsoft, Wells Fargo and all the other corps funding your politicians. Most UK citizens I feel would agree that guns and the gun culture that goes with it are not good for humanity. Like I said your system is so trigger happy that I dont blame you that you need a gun to feel safe. Just remember the more you support gun culture, the more advanced your government will be relative to your own stock. I think the US has made so many enemies that the UK has little to worry about.

Anyway this is not a pissing contest, here is a reality check.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs

No pissing here mate, just an honest observer informing you of facts of which you seem unaware.

It's a fact that armed Americans saved your smug little realm in two World Wars, so don't whine about your NATO obligations.  Why display such a staggering lack of gratitude?  

American guns did a fine job of repelling the British King George.

American guns also prevented catastrophic invasion, in our own darkest hour.

In 1960, Robert Menard was a commander aboard the USS Constellation when he was part of a meeting between United States Navy personnel and their counterparts in the Japanese Defense Forces.
Fifteen years had passed since VJ Day, most of those at the meeting were WWII veterans, and men who had fought each other to the death at sea were now comrades in battle who could confide in each other.
Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland U.S. forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.
Commander Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese commander's face as he frankly answered the question.
'You are right,' he told the Americans. 'We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand.'

If Japan had invaded the west coast, do you think we would have been able to free Europe?  
Or would you be speaking German right now, if the 2nd Amendment hadn't kept the mainland safe?

Obviously a rifle or pistol is not going to be aimed directly and fired ineffectually at a jet, warship or tank.
Rather they'll be used against their operators, commanders, and supply lines.
In WW2, cheap disposable pistols called Liberators were sent to French resistance.  Your knee-jerk incredulity dishonors the memory of their bravery.   You sir, are delicate pansy ready to wilt at first whiff of coercion!

Where the FUCK do you get off insulting our intelligence with your idiotic 'Hurr-Durr rifle can't stop a warship' strawman?

Bloody peasant, George Washington is on US$ (not Exxon) but Her Majesty is on yours.  You, your family, and any children you may have are Her personal property.  The idea that such Euro-trash chattel would presume to lecture free, sovereign, independent Americans on RKBA is appalling.

[bernard75]

It's a fact that armed Americans saved your smug little realm in two World Wars, so don't whine about your NATO obligations.  Why display such a staggering lack of gratitude? 

American guns did a fine job of repelling the British King George.

American guns also prevented catastrophic invasion, in our own darkest hour.

Ok, you are still bathing in the accomplishments 70 years ago.
But what has your government done since than besides bombing countlees countries back to the stone age, installing puppet governments and overthrowing counties for their sole purpose?

[Spendulus]

It's a fact that armed Americans saved your smug little realm in two World Wars, so don't whine about your NATO obligations.  Why display such a staggering lack of gratitude? 

American guns did a fine job of repelling the British King George.

American guns also prevented catastrophic invasion, in our own darkest hour.

Ok, you are still bathing in the accomplishments 70 years ago.
But what has your government done since than besides bombing countlees countries back to the stone age, installing puppet governments and overthrowing counties for their sole purpose?

I am not sure of how this could possibly relate to a discussion of private ownership of firearms.   Either we might need them, to restrain a government which gets out of control, or we don't need them because the All Wise and Powerful King knows best?

I do know for a fact that in certain rare and unfortunate occasions having quick access to a firearm means the difference between...

[bernard75]

And again we are down to the point where armed citizens would make a difference.
What have you done in 2002 when you have been stripped of your most important guaranteed rights to you where taken away with no supreme court ruling.
Waht have you done in 2006 and 2008?
What are you doing now that that the world is exposed to your governments crimes.
Ignorance is bliss.

[mdude77]

And again we are down to the point where armed citizens would make a difference.
What have you done in 2002 when you have been stripped of your most important guaranteed rights to you where taken away with no supreme court ruling.
Waht have you done in 2006 and 2008?
What are you doing now that that the world is exposed to your governments crimes.
Ignorance is bliss.

Pray and hope we never need to use them.

M

[Kluge]

And again we are down to the point where armed citizens would make a difference.
What have you done in 2002 when you have been stripped of your most important guaranteed rights to you where taken away with no supreme court ruling.
Waht have you done in 2006 and 2008?
What are you doing now that that the world is exposed to your governments crimes.
Ignorance is bliss.

Pray and hope we never need to use them.

M

I think his point is that they're never used in those critical times. The government sends off hundreds of thousands of Americans to protect the hegemony - and what happens? Where were the armed riots when the government sent our friends and families to die in war?The only serious defenses of liberty in the past century have been by lawyers. Everyone keeps redrawing lines once the government calls militias' bluffs.

Even if the federal government banned all firearms in one go, there would almost certainly be no full-scale rioting. Maybe a bunch of armed old farts will walk down a public street. Nobody in government is afraid of armed citizens until they drive through an impoverished neighborhood. Everyone else seems too worried about their image as cautious, responsible individuals who seem to only own guns on principle.

(not that I'm arguing for gun regulation, just don't think anyone can seriously say an armed US citizenry is pressuring government)

[mdude77]

And again we are down to the point where armed citizens would make a difference.
What have you done in 2002 when you have been stripped of your most important guaranteed rights to you where taken away with no supreme court ruling.
Waht have you done in 2006 and 2008?
What are you doing now that that the world is exposed to your governments crimes.
Ignorance is bliss.

Pray and hope we never need to use them.

M

I think his point is that they're never used in those critical times. The government sends off hundreds of thousands of Americans to protect the hegemony - and what happens? Where were the armed riots when the government sent our friends and families to die in war?The only serious defenses of liberty in the past century have been by lawyers. Everyone keeps redrawing lines once the government calls militias' bluffs.

Even if the federal government banned all firearms in one go, there would almost certainly be no full-scale rioting. Maybe a bunch of armed old farts will walk down a public street. Nobody in government is afraid of armed citizens until they drive through an impoverished neighborhood. Everyone else seems too worried about their image as cautious, responsible individuals who seem to only own guns on principle.

(not that I'm arguing for gun regulation, just don't think anyone can seriously say an armed US citizenry is pressuring government)

These are bad times, yes.  However, armed revolt would not accomplish a thing, and it would make us no better than them.  Two wrong's don't make it right.  I'm certain the government would LOVE a small armed revolt, and it would clamp down on it real fast. 

I think only if the government fires the first shot will their be widespread resistance.  Then it would be self defense, you see, against an armed aggressor.  Considering they've bought billions of hollowpoint ammo for no apparent reason, that time may be sooner than we'd like.

The ideal situation is A) the government changes by Godly individuals getting in or B) it collapses under its own weight.  Armed revolution is a last resort. 

M

[TheButterZone]

The only genocide that can happen in the U.S. will be with nukes, after all oathkeepers are purged from all ranks of the government and military. Taking the current cold civil war hot with a ground war will incur unacceptable losses, from the tyrants' side.

[bernard75]

I was hinting at the Patriots Act, Protect America Act and what have you not by now, stripping the American populace of basic rights.
But Kluge raises an important point, where were the protests when all that shit went down?
Although i dont agree wit the protecting hegemony part, i still believe that the government has by now the ultimate power to subvert and manipulate its armed populace to the point, where 99% dont even notice it(and no shit are backing it).
Unfortunately thats true for most western countries too, but at least check and balance works to a great extend.

[Rampion]

The gun-loving crowd must be delusional to believe the Government with the biggest defense budget in the world (by far) "fears his citizens" because they own handguns and rifles.

People stood up against their Governments many times in history, and armed or not, the final outcome depended almost always on who the army decided to side with. Guns or no guns, that's not gonna change (most recent ex. Egypt).

Plus, there is a lot of nit picking in here regarding statistics related to guns and different regulations, but you guys forget to mention the main non opinable cold hard fact, supported by statistics worldwide: more guns = more homicides.

Then we can discuss if some stupid regulator should be able to decide what I should or shouldn't own, but please let do not make retarded assumptions like the Government with the strongest army in the world fears his citizens because they have guns.

[mdude77]

I was hinting at the Patriots Act, Protect America Act and what have you not by now, stripping the American populace of basic rights.
But Kluge raises an important point, where were the protests when all that shit went down?
Although i dont agree wit the protecting hegemony part, i still believe that the government has by now the ultimate power to subvert and manipulate its armed populace to the point, where 99% dont even notice it(and no shit are backing it).
Unfortunately thats true for most western countries too, but at least check and balance works to a great extend.

If nothing else, the government is good at fear mongering.

M

[mdude77]

The gun-loving crowd must be delusional to believe the Government with the biggest defense budget in the world (by far) "fears his citizens" because they own handguns and rifles.

People stood up against their Governments many times in history, and armed or not, the final outcome depended almost always on who the army decided to side with. Guns or
no guns, that's not gonna change (most recent ex. Egypt).

See the outcome of the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?  Who's winning there? 

Plus, there is a lot of nit picking in here regarding statistics related to guns and different regulations, but you guys forget to mention the main non opinable cold hard fact, supported by statistics worldwide: more guns = more homicides.

You also gloss over the fact that you can't get rid of guns completely.  When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.  And governments.  (Sorry for the redundancy.)

As long as those two violet groups have guns, free men should be allowed to defend themselves.  If they are not allowed, they are no longer free men, they are slaves, or subjects in the more "political correct" term.

M

[Spendulus]

...

[Spendulus]

I was hinting at the Patriots Act, Protect America Act and what have you not by now, stripping the American populace of basic rights.
But Kluge raises an important point, where were the protests when all that shit went down?
Although i dont agree wit the protecting hegemony part, i still believe that the government has by now the ultimate power to subvert and manipulate its armed populace to the point, where 99% dont even notice it(and no shit are backing it).
Unfortunately thats true for most western countries too, but at least check and balance works to a great extend.

If nothing else, the government is good at fear mongering.

M

The most subversive and revolutionary action would of course, be to promote Bitcoin.

Where we seem to be headed, the US dollar will be worthless.  Soldiers don't work or fight if they don't get actually paid.