Assault weapon bans

[Rassah]

What I am is disgusted by people getting shot.

Does this also apply to the tens of thousands of people being shot by police and the military? Why do you presume that most of those that got shot didn't actually deserve it?

Guns don't lead to prosperity.

Tell that to colonial Americans fighting Britain, or the Lybian rebels who recently deposed Qaddafi.

[NewLiberty]

Sure, and I am fine with that.

That's the problem.

If you have a problem with my opinion, you will probably have to live with that.  I used to think like you, I came to my senses.
I've seen the results of defenseless women, when it mattered.  I will have to live with that.

The supply is not "free flowing".

How did you arrive at such an erroneous conclusion given the statistics?

I looked up "free" and "law" in the dictionary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States
Wow, seems I am right and you are wrong, huh.  Big surprise.

What specifically are you hoping to accomplish after you have disarmed the relatively innocent?

[TheButterZone]

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

[Spendulus]

Others in this thread seem to think they only get them from other criminals. The reality is they get them because people such as yourself (gun advocates) insist on allowing a free flowing path of guns into their hands.

Really? I probably missed that. Personally, I know that criminals buy their guns from other gun owners, either on the street, over the internet, or at gun shows. I know this because the media has been harping about "background checks" for almost a year now. I can't imagine that everyone else is actually as dumb as you claim them to be. Maybe?

Yeah, there are people that dumb in this thread. Scroll back and find the post, or take my word for it. I believe it was Spendulus.

Or maybe it wasn't Spendulus.

And maybe you don't know the facts enough.  For example, in Texas many convicted felons who have been clean for five years can buy guns.  But they cannot pass the federal background check.  Thus they are legal under state law, but not federal.  Similar in numerous other states.

I have no problem with that.   

Each state has differing problems.  They are in a sense experimental societies.  And we know how successful (NOT) Illinois, New York and Washington DC have been with their very restrictive gun laws.

LOL....

[FirstAscent]

Others in this thread seem to think they only get them from other criminals. The reality is they get them because people such as yourself (gun advocates) insist on allowing a free flowing path of guns into their hands.

Really? I probably missed that. Personally, I know that criminals buy their guns from other gun owners, either on the street, over the internet, or at gun shows. I know this because the media has been harping about "background checks" for almost a year now. I can't imagine that everyone else is actually as dumb as you claim them to be. Maybe?

Yeah, there are people that dumb in this thread. Scroll back and find the post, or take my word for it. I believe it was Spendulus.

Or maybe it wasn't Spendulus.

And maybe you don't know the facts enough.  For example, in Texas many convicted felons who have been clean for five years can buy guns.  But they cannot pass the federal background check.  Thus they are legal under state law, but not federal.  Similar in numerous other states.

I have no problem with that.   

Each state has differing problems.  They are in a sense experimental societies.  And we know how successful (NOT) Illinois, New York and Washington DC have been with their very restrictive gun laws.

LOL....

The problem is you have no problem with it. How many times must I say: Ineffective laws (or even effective laws) ineffectively enforced put guns in criminals' hands? I specifically called for gun permits enforced at the federal level only precisely because Chicago residents can simply go elsewhere to get guns.

[Spendulus]

The problem is you have no problem with it. How many times must I say: Ineffective laws (or even effective laws) ineffectively enforced put guns in criminals' hands? I specifically called for gun permits enforced at the federal level only precisely because Chicago residents can simply go elsewhere to get guns.

So let me understand this.

A.  Progressive Authoritarian Controllers cause Chicago to create gun control law and takes all the guns from the good guys, leaving the bad guys with all the guns.
B.  Doesn't work.  Things get worse.  WAY  WORSE.
C.  Progressive authoritarian Controller calls for nation wide, uniform federal law taking guns away from the good guys to 'fix the problem'.
D.  So a big problem created by the Prog trying to fix a little problem now has to be solved by a bigger fix, with yet more risk and inconvenience and loss of property by the good guys.

Basically your ideas are to screw with the rights of the good guys.

Gosh...I wonder how that will work down in South Texas where Eric Holder has been arming all the Mexican gangs with AR15/AK47/AK74?    

I'm going to exit this thread for a short while to replace the heating element on my 3d printer.  And then I'm going to print a gun.  Give me a couple of days, and I'll return and with a bit of luck put up some photos. 

[FirstAscent]

The problem is you have no problem with it. How many times must I say: Ineffective laws (or even effective laws) ineffectively enforced put guns in criminals' hands? I specifically called for gun permits enforced at the federal level only precisely because Chicago residents can simply go elsewhere to get guns.

So let me understand this.

A.  Progressive Authoritarian Controllers cause Chicago to create gun control law and takes all the guns from the good guys, leaving the bad guys with all the guns.
B.  Doesn't work.  Things get worse.  WAY  WORSE.
C.  Progressive authoritarian Controller calls for nation wide, uniform federal law taking guns away from the good guys to 'fix the problem'.
D.  So a big problem created by the Prog trying to fix a little problem now has to be solved by a bigger fix, with yet more risk and inconvenience and loss of property by the good guys.

Basically your ideas are to screw with the rights of the good guys.

Gosh...I wonder how that will work down in South Texas where Eric Holder has been arming all the Mexican gangs with AR15/AK47/AK74?    

I'm going to exit this thread for a short while to replace the heating element on my 3d printer.  And then I'm going to print a gun.  Give me a couple of days, and I'll return and with a bit of luck put up some photos. 

Your misunderstanding arises from the fact that you don't get the following:

- More guns translates to more gun deaths.
- Gun advocates are the ones responsible for allowing the free flow of guns into criminals' hands.
- Ineffective laws enforced ineffectively put guns in criminals hands.
- Ineffective laws enforced effectively put guns in criminals hands.
- Effective laws enforced ineffectively put guns in criminals hands.
- Inconsistent and competing laws allow criminals to get guns.

[Rassah]

Sounds like the only solution is to ban all guns in all cities, then when people bring them from nearby, ban them in states, then when they bring them from neighboring states, ban them in the whole country, then when they bring them from neighboring countries, ban them in all countries. Unless the country you are trying to ban them in doesn't like you, and realizes that they have all the guns, and you don't Hell, even if you ban all the guns in the entire world, there's still the asshole effect, which is that it only takes one asshole (or one asshole country) to ruin it for everyone. Plus, again, with 3D printed guns, the issue becomes more complicated.


What laws would you create against 3D printing guns, and how would you enforce them?

[FirstAscent]

Sounds like the only solution is to ban all guns in all cities, then when people bring them from nearby, ban them in states, then when they bring them from neighboring states, ban them in the whole country, then when they bring them from neighboring countries, ban them in all countries. Unless the country you are trying to ban them in doesn't like you, and realizes that they have all the guns, and you don't Hell, even if you ban all the guns in the entire world, there's still the asshole effect, which is that it only takes one asshole (or one asshole country) to ruin it for everyone.

Really? How is that working out for Japan?

[Spendulus]

The problem is you have no problem with it. How many times must I say: Ineffective laws (or even effective laws) ineffectively enforced put guns in criminals' hands? I specifically called for gun permits enforced at the federal level only precisely because Chicago residents can simply go elsewhere to get guns.

So let me understand this.

A.  Progressive Authoritarian Controllers cause Chicago to create gun control law and takes all the guns from the good guys, leaving the bad guys with all the guns.
B.  Doesn't work.  Things get worse.  WAY  WORSE.
C.  Progressive authoritarian Controller calls for nation wide, uniform federal law taking guns away from the good guys to 'fix the problem'.
D.  So a big problem created by the Prog trying to fix a little problem now has to be solved by a bigger fix, with yet more risk and inconvenience and loss of property by the good guys.

Basically your ideas are to screw with the rights of the good guys.

Gosh...I wonder how that will work down in South Texas where Eric Holder has been arming all the Mexican gangs with AR15/AK47/AK74?    

I'm going to exit this thread for a short while to replace the heating element on my 3d printer.  And then I'm going to print a gun.  Give me a couple of days, and I'll return and with a bit of luck put up some photos. 

Your misunderstanding arises from the fact that you don't get the following:

- More guns translates to more gun deaths.
- Gun advocates are the ones responsible for allowing the free flow of guns into criminals' hands.
- Ineffective laws enforced ineffectively put guns in criminals hands.
- Ineffective laws enforced effectively put guns in criminals hands.
- Effective laws enforced ineffectively put guns in criminals hands.
- Inconsistent and competing laws allow criminals to get guns.

Well, your misunderstanding arises from in part, not comprehending that I fully comprehend that many laws are "Ineffective or Inconsistent". 

What is baffling/ridiculous/absurd is that you think that some law that you or other current generation progressives dream up would be "better".  I suggest rather that you look at "Ineffective" and understand it as a failure of centralized control concepts, then go spend your time at something more useful productive and profitable than opining ineffectively and inconsistently on internet forums.

Wait a second.  If you are ineffectively and inconsistently opining about ineffective and inconsistent rules and laws...Clearly you can solve the world's problems and are smarter and wiser than all those who came before and who implemented existing law.

That is such utter nonsense. 

[Spendulus]

Sounds like the only solution is to ban all guns in all cities, then when people bring them from nearby, ban them in states, then when they bring them from neighboring states, ban them in the whole country, then when they bring them from neighboring countries, ban them in all countries. .....

Don't be LOGICAL.  Hold hands in a circle and sing "Give Peas a Chance!"

[mdude77]

Statistics show that when ice cream sales increase, more cars get stolen.  That's bad, we should ban ice cream.

Reality check: people buy ice cream when it gets warm, and because it's warm they tend to leave their car windows opened more.  Wait, ban heat!  That'll solve it!

Statistics also show that the more cars there are, the more fatal car accidents there are.  And sometimes, they aren't accidental!  Uh oh, ban cars!!

Reality check: cars are useful, and serve a purpose other than fatal car accidents purposeful or not.  Wait, ban people!  That'll solve it!

Statistics also show the more guns there are, the more shootings there are!  Whoa, ban guns!!

Reality check: guns serve a purpose, it's called self defense.  Wait, ban evil!!  That'll solve it!

M

[TheButterZone]

Ban evil? Gun control advocates (100% of criminals, 100% enabled by gun control/0% diminished by it) would all have to kill themselves then. Sadly, they don't.

[Spendulus]

He has abandoned reason.  It is becoming increasingly clear that he just doesn't want any of his future rape victims to be able to protect themselves.  ....

Although I don't agree with FirstAscent, and may rib him a little bit, there is no cause for ad hominem attacks.  He may have some life experiences which have shaped his attitudes to their current state. 

Certainly his attitude roughly parallels that of many people in positions of power, who think they can make decisions for large disparate groups eg "one size fits all" thinking.  Yeah, it's unsettling to see this attitude so blatantly displayed.  But it's not uncommon...

[Rassah]

Sounds like the only solution is to ban all guns in all cities, then when people bring them from nearby, ban them in states, then when they bring them from neighboring states, ban them in the whole country, then when they bring them from neighboring countries, ban them in all countries. Unless the country you are trying to ban them in doesn't like you, and realizes that they have all the guns, and you don't Hell, even if you ban all the guns in the entire world, there's still the asshole effect, which is that it only takes one asshole (or one asshole country) to ruin it for everyone.

Really? How is that working out for Japan?

As I said, we don't really know. Is their crime rate low due to lack of guns, or due to their culture? Aren't there some places where guns are completely banned, where crime rates are really high? (like Washington DC)

[TheButterZone]

Sounds like the only solution is to ban all guns in all cities, then when people bring them from nearby, ban them in states, then when they bring them from neighboring states, ban them in the whole country, then when they bring them from neighboring countries, ban them in all countries. Unless the country you are trying to ban them in doesn't like you, and realizes that they have all the guns, and you don't Hell, even if you ban all the guns in the entire world, there's still the asshole effect, which is that it only takes one asshole (or one asshole country) to ruin it for everyone.

Really? How is that working out for Japan?

As I said, we don't really know. Is their crime rate low due to lack of guns, or due to their culture? Aren't there some places where guns are completely banned, where crime rates are really high? (like Washington DC)

Japan doesn't "lack" guns nor "gun deaths"/crime at all, despite what that bloody sociopath would have gun control victims believe about his criminals' utopia.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/the-great-japanese-gang-wars.html

[Kluge]

As I said, we don't really know. Is their crime rate low due to lack of guns, or due to their culture? Aren't there some places where guns are completely banned, where crime rates are really high? (like Washington DC)

Japan doesn't "lack" guns nor "gun deaths"/crime at all, despite what that bloody sociopath would have gun control victims believe about his criminals' utopia.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/the-great-japanese-gang-wars.html

Yeaaaah... There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that some people die from guns in places with gun control, but the US murder rate is 12x that of Japan. That said, there's only barely a correlation between murder rate and death rate in countries. It's extraordinary for someone to be murdered anywhere. Almost everyone in the world dies of disease, not guns, fists, spears, or bombs.

Cancer's killed ~25m in the US in the past 40 years. Guns have been involved in roughly 500k homicides in the US in the past 40 years. The Brady Campaign takes in $4m annually. The Kanzius Institute takes in $1.3m annually. So...... yeah.

This isn't fair, because Brady's the biggest, while Kanzius isn't (however, they are in the small minority of medical research NPFs actually spending the money almost entirely on actual programs), but I would argue America's wrong-prioritization currently = ((cancer deaths / gun deaths)*(cancer funding / gun funding)), or ~150%. The way I see it, we're basically 150% fucking stupid.

[TheButterZone]

500k homicides exclusively by criminals, or including justified homicides OF criminals in self-defense (both by LE and civilians)?

[Kluge]

500k homicides exclusively by criminals, or including justified homicides OF criminals in self-defense (both by LE and civilians)?

I really doubt the government accurately identifies "justified homicides," so all homicides are included.

[mdude77]

500k homicides exclusively by criminals, or including justified homicides OF criminals in self-defense (both by LE and civilians)?

I really doubt the government accurately identifies "justified homicides," so all homicides are included.

And they don't include their murders from their wars around the world.

M