Assault weapon bans

[Rassah]

No, *true* freedom is feeling you don't need a gun, and not fearing from not carrying one.

Then I am *truly* free. Why is it that you are not?

Because, as has been repeated over and over and over, the issue is the culture of various places (not their level of gun posession). You live in a place where guns are not needed. I live not to far from a place where they are needed. Just because you are free enough not to need a gun, does not mean that others are as well.

By your own admission elsewhere, you don't own a gun, and yet you seem to be just fine. Maybe your fears are imagined? Or maybe you should move.

As I said right above, "I live not too far from a place where they are needed." I don't go to that place. Had I lived there, yes, I would have moved. Especially since my entire state bans having guns outside of your own house.

And I recall a desire to go to Somalia on your part. Is that a better place that gives you freedom (no need to carry a gun).

Don't be stupid.

You are free because you live in a place where you don't need a gun. Not because you don't have a gun. As I said, you got the order backwards. It is NOT

Bad Culture > Give up guns because they are "not needed" > Better Culture

as you claim. The "freedom" order is

Bad culture > Better culture > Give up guns because they are "not needed"

Does that make sense?

Sounds like the sound thing for you to do is find some better culture.

Really? Are you sure the better thing is not to force this bad culture to give up its guns?

[FirstAscent]

And I recall a desire to go to Somalia on your part. Is that a better place that gives you freedom (no need to carry a gun).

Don't be stupid.

Perhaps you're the one being stupid for thinking Somalia is something great.

Really? Are you sure the better thing is not to force this bad culture to give up its guns?

Guns in a good culture aren't necessary at all. Guns in bad culture aren't a good thing, no matter how you look at it. Guns everywhere merely supply the baddies with guns, making the bad culture worse. And bad culture just drags everyone down. Don't be a fool for the rest of your life. We already have 300 million guns in this country. Do you really think more is better? Do you really think 300 million is optimal? Seriously.

[TheButterZone]

Is he still fraudulently claiming he lives where there is absolutely no chance of violent crime ever occurring, nor the need for self-defense? Jeeezus. That's a fucking future distopia where everyone has a kill chip to instantly shut them down if they ever have an evil thought.

[FirstAscent]

Is he still fraudulently claiming he lives where there is absolutely no chance of violent crime ever occurring, nor the need for self-defense? Jeeezus. That's a fucking future distopia where everyone has a kill chip to instantly shut them down if they ever have an evil thought.

You're referring to me? I never said there's no chance of violent crime happening where I live. I'm just smart enough to know that it's stupid and paranoid to think I should need to take away my freedom by believing I need to encumber myself with a gun.

[PrintMule]

Last time I checked, my written English was good enough for people to understand me.

First of all -  situation I tried to describe about: In that situation YOU are a THIRD person, BYSTANDER, WITNESS to a possible crime IN PROGRESS. You have the capability (not the authority) to take down (lethally or not, depends on your luck and skill) said attacker, possessing a knife.
The major point of this question was to bring another, following question: what if attacker was actually a victim, who simply has gained an upper hand in this situation, when you suddenly stumble upon them both?

Second - my post was generally addressed to Mr. ProjectyPants here (TheButterZone). It was suprising to see how everyone else jumped the bandwagon, while he ignored me (possibly completely).

Finally -

Gonna answer you two ways.

A.  Bring a gun to a knife fight?  Hell yes!

B.  No one who has actually had to pull them triggers has much interest in talking about it.  Particularly with people that knows it all.

A. What? How it's even an answer or at least relevant?
B. While that may be one of the smartest lines in this thread, I would like to correct your "No one" to "Most people" and "For a certain amount of time since the incident", if I may.

[mdude77]

Is he still fraudulently claiming he lives where there is absolutely no chance of violent crime ever occurring, nor the need for self-defense? Jeeezus. That's a fucking future distopia where everyone has a kill chip to instantly shut them down if they ever have an evil thought.

You're referring to me? I never said there's no chance of violent crime happening where I live. I'm just smart enough to know that it's stupid and paranoid to think I should need to take away my freedom by believing I need to encumber myself with a gun.

Wow, that's some twisted logic you have there about taking away freedom and encumbering yourself with a gun.  Using that logic, you shouldn't have a car.

M

[superresistant]

I need a gun to protect myself my freedom from gun-carriers and I will never stop carrying gun because I believe others are evil.

America

[FirstAscent]

Is he still fraudulently claiming he lives where there is absolutely no chance of violent crime ever occurring, nor the need for self-defense? Jeeezus. That's a fucking future distopia where everyone has a kill chip to instantly shut them down if they ever have an evil thought.

You're referring to me? I never said there's no chance of violent crime happening where I live. I'm just smart enough to know that it's stupid and paranoid to think I should need to take away my freedom by believing I need to encumber myself with a gun.

Wow, that's some twisted logic you have there about taking away freedom and encumbering yourself with a gun.  Using that logic, you shouldn't have a car.

It's not twisted at all. I don't know why you think it would be. See the keyword I bolded?

[Rassah]

Perhaps you're the one being stupid for thinking Somalia is something great.

Well, you're stupid for thinking North Korea is something great

Guns in a good culture aren't necessary at all. Guns in bad culture aren't a good thing, no matter how you look at it. Guns everywhere merely supply the baddies with guns, making the bad culture worse.

Well, the baddies will get their guns either way. It's the goodies that we need to get guns to, so they can defend themselves against the baddies. At least until the culture changes. Focus on changing the culture, first.

We already have 300 million guns in this country. Do you really think more is better? Do you really think 300 million is optimal?

More guns in the hands of good people would be better, yes. Do I think 300 million is optimal? Well, do you think 300 million guns in US means that almost every person owns a gun? I don't.

For instance, "Did you know that the US has 7,700 nuclear missiles? That means that one out of every 45,000 Americans owns a nuke." That makes just about as much sense.

[Rassah]

I need a gun to protect myself my freedom from gun-carriers and I will never stop carrying gun because I believe others are evil.

America People living in high-crime areas where a gun may be their only means of protection

FIFY

Conversely, you guys are saying
"I don't need a gun to protect my freedoms from gun carriers, and I will never carry a gun because I believe I, and everyone else, is evil."

I mean, if you guys didn't think that you and everyone else was evil, then what would be the harm is allowing everyone to carry guns?

[Spendulus]

...
Finally -

Gonna answer you two ways.

A.  Bring a gun to a knife fight?  Hell yes!

B.  No one who has actually had to pull them triggers has much interest in talking about it.  Particularly with people that knows it all.

A. What? How it's even an answer or at least relevant?
B. While that may be one of the smartest lines in this thread, I would like to correct your "No one" to "Most people" and "For a certain amount of time since the incident", if I may.

B.  No, you may not.  Let's look at my statement and in particular the part which is bolded.

No one who has actually had to pull them triggers has much interest in talking about it.  Particularly with people that knows it all.

[mdude77]

Is he still fraudulently claiming he lives where there is absolutely no chance of violent crime ever occurring, nor the need for self-defense? Jeeezus. That's a fucking future distopia where everyone has a kill chip to instantly shut them down if they ever have an evil thought.

You're referring to me? I never said there's no chance of violent crime happening where I live. I'm just smart enough to know that it's stupid and paranoid to think I should need to take away my freedom by believing I need to encumber myself with a gun.

Wow, that's some twisted logic you have there about taking away freedom and encumbering yourself with a gun.  Using that logic, you shouldn't have a car.

It's not twisted at all. I don't know why you think it would be. See the keyword I bolded?

I have to admit, I have no idea what you're talking about.

M

[mdude77]

Is he still fraudulently claiming he lives where there is absolutely no chance of violent crime ever occurring, nor the need for self-defense? Jeeezus. That's a fucking future distopia where everyone has a kill chip to instantly shut them down if they ever have an evil thought.

You're referring to me? I never said there's no chance of violent crime happening where I live. I'm just smart enough to know that it's stupid and paranoid to think I should need to take away my freedom by believing I need to encumber myself with a gun.

Wow, that's some twisted logic you have there about taking away freedom and encumbering yourself with a gun.  Using that logic, you shouldn't have a car.

It's not twisted at all. I don't know why you think it would be. See the keyword I bolded?

I can sort of see how you might consider a gun an encumbrance.  After all, it does have some weight.  I fail to see how you twist that into taking away your freedom though.

A better example using your analogy would be a cell phone.  You carry it around, so it's an encumbrance.  You give up some of your freedom because big brother(s) can trace your every move and call.

M

[FirstAscent]

Perhaps you're the one being stupid for thinking Somalia is something great.

Well, you're stupid for thinking North Korea is something great

I have never made any comments regarding North Korea. For the record, I think they're horrific. On the other hand, you have declared a fondness for Somalia in the past. Try to not to resort to fiction so much in your arguments.

Guns in a good culture aren't necessary at all. Guns in bad culture aren't a good thing, no matter how you look at it. Guns everywhere merely supply the baddies with guns, making the bad culture worse.

Well, the baddies will get their guns either way. It's the goodies that we need to get guns to, so they can defend themselves against the baddies. At least until the culture changes. Focus on changing the culture, first.

No. The baddies get their guns because the gun lovers want a market for guns.

We already have 300 million guns in this country. Do you really think more is better? Do you really think 300 million is optimal?

More guns in the hands of good people would be better, yes. Do I think 300 million is optimal? Well, do you think 300 million guns in US means that almost every person owns a gun? I don't.

For instance, "Did you know that the US has 7,700 nuclear missiles? That means that one out of every 45,000 Americans owns a nuke." That makes just about as much sense.

You seem to fail that a large majority of non gun owners don't want a gun, nor feel the need for a gun. It's only gun lovers who keep calling for more guns, which translates to more guns for criminals.

[FirstAscent]

Is he still fraudulently claiming he lives where there is absolutely no chance of violent crime ever occurring, nor the need for self-defense? Jeeezus. That's a fucking future distopia where everyone has a kill chip to instantly shut them down if they ever have an evil thought.

You're referring to me? I never said there's no chance of violent crime happening where I live. I'm just smart enough to know that it's stupid and paranoid to think I should need to take away my freedom by believing I need to encumber myself with a gun.

Wow, that's some twisted logic you have there about taking away freedom and encumbering yourself with a gun.  Using that logic, you shouldn't have a car.

It's not twisted at all. I don't know why you think it would be. See the keyword I bolded?

I can sort of see how you might consider a gun an encumbrance.  After all, it does have some weight.  I fail to see how you twist that into taking away your freedom though.

A better example using your analogy would be a cell phone.  You carry it around, so it's an encumbrance.  You give up some of your freedom because big brother(s) can trace your every move and call.

Nobody who doesn't covet a gun would consider carrying one around to not be an encumbrance. And we're not just talking about weight here. But it wouldn't surprise me that you, one who covets guns, wouldn't understand.

[Rassah]

I have never made any comments regarding North Korea. For the record, I think they're horrific. On the other hand, you have declared a fondness for Somalia in the past.

I think Somalia is horrific, too. However, I think Somalia is nowhere near as bad as it's portrayed to be, and I think it has great potential, considering its economy is growing at a faster rate than that of its neighbors.

Try to not to resort to fiction so much in your arguments.

You first.

Well, the baddies will get their guns either way. It's the goodies that we need to get guns to, so they can defend themselves against the baddies. At least until the culture changes. Focus on changing the culture, first.

No. The baddies get their guns because the gun lovers want a market for guns.
[/quote]

Not true. The baddies get guns in Europe where guns are restricted, and even in Japan, where all guns are banned. There is always a market for guns. Everywhere.

You seem to fail that a large majority of non gun owners don't want a gun, nor feel the need for a gun. It's only gun lovers who keep calling for more guns, which translates to more guns for criminals.

You seem to fail that a large majority of non gun owners don't want a gun and don't need a gun, because they don't need a gun. Not because "not needing a gun" translates to lower crime, but because they are already living in low crime areas. Some part of he population does want a gun, and actually does need a gun. Just because a large majority of the population does't need something does not mean that everyone should be forced to not have something. And criminals wll always get guns regardless.

[Rassah]

Nobody who doesn't covet a gun would consider carrying one around to not be an encumbrance. And we're not just talking about weight here. But it wouldn't surprise me that you, one who covets guns, wouldn't understand.

Is the source of the encumbrance the gun itself? Or the crime ridden area they live in where they may actually need a gun for self defense? I mean, really, I just don't get you. Are you honestly claiming that if we reduce the number of guns, crime will go down, and everyone will become more civil???

[Spendulus]

I can sort of see how you might consider a gun an encumbrance.

Carrying a gun is a huge pain in my ass, not to mention a heavy responsibility. So far, as far as I know, it has been a pointless exercise. Hopefully that never changes.

That said, I will continue to carry a gun every day for the rest of my life.

Definitely not a bad idea in Alaska.

[FirstAscent]

I can sort of see how you might consider a gun an encumbrance.

Carrying a gun is a huge pain in my ass, not to mention a heavy responsibility. So far, as far as I know, it has been a pointless exercise. Hopefully that never changes.

That said, I will continue to carry a gun every day for the rest of my life.

There you go, mdude77. Doc Holliday has spoken, and he knows.

[stevenh512]

Just a little perspective from someone who has seen both sides of this (and, just to be transparent here, yes I do own a gun.. as well as a crossbow and several swords and knives). I grew up in and around Los Angeles, California. As most of you probably know, gun control there is pretty strict by American standards. Even if you're transporting a gun legally, you can expect a lot of hassle from the police if you get pulled over. In spite of California's "may issue" concealed carry laws, it's virtually impossible for anyone who isn't a police officer, politician or celebrity to get a concealed carry license. Purchasing and owning a gun legally is hard, carrying or transporting it legally is even harder. Growing up in L.A. gun violence was an almost every day occurrence. It wasn't too uncommon to see a neighbour’s house sprayed with automatic weapons (typically an Uzi or an AK-47). The gang members had pretty easy access to these weapons, and even easier access to handguns and semi-auto rifles, while law abiding citizens had to jump through hoops to protect themselves and the police were unwilling and/or unable to help.

Now I live in a small rural desert town. Everybody here owns a gun, most people here carry since it's legal to open carry and a concealed carry license is pretty easy to get (self-defense is considered a legitimate reason for a license by the local Sheriff's department). Even with nearly everyone carrying guns, either openly or concealed, shootings are rare. In the 5 years I've lived here, two people have been shot, one was an accident and the other was a legitimate case of self-defense. There are far more stabbings than shootings. There are also legitimate reasons to own and carry a gun even in the absence of gun violence, there are wild animals here that can and will kill an unarmed person, I've personally fired my gun twice in self-defense against wild animals (a rattlesnake and a mountain lion).

I feel safer and more comfortable here than I ever did in L.A., I'd even go as far as to say that even if I didn't own a gun myself I'd still feel safer and more comfortable knowing that the criminals and the police weren't the only people carrying them.