-

[Bonam]

Public Offering – 100 000 bonds will be made available to the public.  The bonds will be tiered in value beginning at 0.15BTC/bond with each consecutive 20 000 being 0.01BTC higher.
20 000 bonds @0.19BTC
20 000 bonds @0.18BTC
20 000 bonds @0.17BTC
20 000 bonds @0.16BTC
20 000 bonds @0.15BTC

...

*Plans for Expansion – It is intended the initial sale of bonds will result in at least 10TH/s being controlled and paid out by LabRatMining on a weekly basis.  The 10TH/s current estimate is subject to increase depending on the speed at which the public offering is completed allowing for further expansion.

So you want to raise 17000 BTC = $1.65 million USD in order to place orders for 20 BFL 500 GH/s minirigs which would cost $22,484 x 20 = $450,000. Where does the other $1.2 million USD go?

[DavinciJ15]

  Dividends will be paid out on Saturdays ~12 noon Eastern Time(UTC -0500.)

If I buy the bonds on Wednesday when will the first dividend be paid?  Saturday the 20th of July 2013? 

If so I will buy 100 BTC worth of bonds.

[Deprived]

  Dividends will be paid out on Saturdays ~12 noon Eastern Time(UTC -0500.)

If I buy the bonds on Wednesday when will the first dividend be paid?  Saturday the 20th of July 2013?  

If so I will buy 100 BTC worth of bonds.

You don't get any dividends until the machines arrive.  After that you get 85% of what the machines you paid a 200% markup for mine.

If you don't want to wait you can achieve the same result faster - just send 2/3 of your BTC to an address you don't have the key for.

[Lab_Rat]

Public Offering – 100 000 bonds will be made available to the public.  The bonds will be tiered in value beginning at 0.15BTC/bond with each consecutive 20 000 being 0.01BTC higher.
20 000 bonds @0.19BTC
20 000 bonds @0.18BTC
20 000 bonds @0.17BTC
20 000 bonds @0.16BTC
20 000 bonds @0.15BTC

...

*Plans for Expansion – It is intended the initial sale of bonds will result in at least 10TH/s being controlled and paid out by LabRatMining on a weekly basis.  The 10TH/s current estimate is subject to increase depending on the speed at which the public offering is completed allowing for further expansion.

So you want to raise 17000 BTC = $1.65 million USD in order to place orders for 20 BFL 500 GH/s minirigs which would cost $22,484 x 20 = $450,000. Where does the other $1.2 million USD go?

I said a minimum of 100MH/s per bond, and I'm covering hosting and electrical costs for life... I think I deserve to buy the company a little hardware to pay for that, and as with every company some profit should be included for the individual(s) going through the hard work to set up such a massive operation.

[Lab_Rat]

  Dividends will be paid out on Saturdays ~12 noon Eastern Time(UTC -0500.)

If I buy the bonds on Wednesday when will the first dividend be paid?  Saturday the 20th of July 2013?  

If so I will buy 100 BTC worth of bonds.

You don't get any dividends until the machines arrive.  After that you get 85% of what the machines you paid a 200% markup for mine.

If you don't want to wait you can achieve the same result faster - just send 2/3 of your BTC to an address you don't have the key for.

Where do you see a 15% fee included? It will be a zero fee company with all running costs covered by the company for life... As well as that, the hashrate per bond will be increasing over time.  In fact Dave from BitFury has agreed to fly out to meet me in order to present a working prototype to me.  I will likely be investing in BitFury a significant amount which will increase the hashrate per bond significantly.

[Deprived]

  Dividends will be paid out on Saturdays ~12 noon Eastern Time(UTC -0500.)

If I buy the bonds on Wednesday when will the first dividend be paid?  Saturday the 20th of July 2013?  

If so I will buy 100 BTC worth of bonds.

You don't get any dividends until the machines arrive.  After that you get 85% of what the machines you paid a 200% markup for mine.

If you don't want to wait you can achieve the same result faster - just send 2/3 of your BTC to an address you don't have the key for.

Where do you see a 15% fee included? It will be a zero fee company with all running costs covered by the company for life... As well as that, the hashrate per bond will be increasing over time.  In fact Dave from BitFury has agreed to fly out to meet me in order to present a working prototype to me.  I will likely be investing in BitFury a significant amount which will increase the hashrate per bond significantly.

Sorry - was confusing this with one of the other offerings trying to sell on hardware/pre-orders at a big markup.

Make up your mind whether you're running a bond or a share.

If it's a bond then fix in stone what gets paid.
If it's a share then add accountability in - and take your cut via a defined management fee.

This vague "it's sort of a bond but I'll try to give a bit more than X but without any guarantees and I'll keep whatever I feel like" approach just isn't one or the other.  Investors should know what they're entitled to from the contract.  If it's a bond then they're entitled to some fixed payment.  If a share then they own the output of everything bought with funds raised - less costs and management fee.

[BigCstyle]

  Dividends will be paid out on Saturdays ~12 noon Eastern Time(UTC -0500.)

If I buy the bonds on Wednesday when will the first dividend be paid?  Saturday the 20th of July 2013?  

If so I will buy 100 BTC worth of bonds.

You don't get any dividends until the machines arrive.  After that you get 85% of what the machines you paid a 200% markup for mine.

If you don't want to wait you can achieve the same result faster - just send 2/3 of your BTC to an address you don't have the key for.

Where do you see a 15% fee included? It will be a zero fee company with all running costs covered by the company for life... As well as that, the hashrate per bond will be increasing over time.  In fact Dave from BitFury has agreed to fly out to meet me in order to present a working prototype to me.  I will likely be investing in BitFury a significant amount which will increase the hashrate per bond significantly.

Sorry - was confusing this with one of the other offerings trying to sell on hardware/pre-orders at a big markup.

Make up your mind whether you're running a bond or a share.

If it's a bond then fix in stone what gets paid.
If it's a share then add accountability in - and take your cut via a defined management fee.

This vague "it's sort of a bond but I'll try to give a bit more than X but without any guarantees and I'll keep whatever I feel like" approach just isn't one or the other.  Investors should know what they're entitled to from the contract.  If it's a bond then they're entitled to some fixed payment.  If a share then they own the output of everything bought with funds raised - less costs and management fee.

Hmm, this reminds me of people coming and viewing your belongings for sale on craigslist, yet spend the duration of the time kicking tires, and questioning its worth.
Its a very simple concept, either invest, or don't.

[DavinciJ15]

  Dividends will be paid out on Saturdays ~12 noon Eastern Time(UTC -0500.)

If I buy the bonds on Wednesday when will the first dividend be paid?  Saturday the 20th of July 2013?  

If so I will buy 100 BTC worth of bonds.

You don't get any dividends until the machines arrive.  After that you get 85% of what the machines you paid a 200% markup for mine.

If you don't want to wait you can achieve the same result faster - just send 2/3 of your BTC to an address you don't have the key for.

Where do you see a 15% fee included? It will be a zero fee company with all running costs covered by the company for life... As well as that, the hashrate per bond will be increasing over time.  In fact Dave from BitFury has agreed to fly out to meet me in order to present a working prototype to me.  I will likely be investing in BitFury a significant amount which will increase the hashrate per bond significantly.

So the answer is NO.

Fuck I hate it when people don't answer the question directly.  It's shady.  Don't dance around a direct question.

Next question are these bonds tradable on an exchange? If so what exchange can I buy and sell them?

[DavinciJ15]

  Dividends will be paid out on Saturdays ~12 noon Eastern Time(UTC -0500.)

If I buy the bonds on Wednesday when will the first dividend be paid?  Saturday the 20th of July 2013?  

If so I will buy 100 BTC worth of bonds.

You don't get any dividends until the machines arrive.  After that you get 85% of what the machines you paid a 200% markup for mine.

If you don't want to wait you can achieve the same result faster - just send 2/3 of your BTC to an address you don't have the key for.

Where do you see a 15% fee included? It will be a zero fee company with all running costs covered by the company for life... As well as that, the hashrate per bond will be increasing over time.  In fact Dave from BitFury has agreed to fly out to meet me in order to present a working prototype to me.  I will likely be investing in BitFury a significant amount which will increase the hashrate per bond significantly.

Sorry - was confusing this with one of the other offerings trying to sell on hardware/pre-orders at a big markup.

Make up your mind whether you're running a bond or a share.

If it's a bond then fix in stone what gets paid.
If it's a share then add accountability in - and take your cut via a defined management fee.

This vague "it's sort of a bond but I'll try to give a bit more than X but without any guarantees and I'll keep whatever I feel like" approach just isn't one or the other.  Investors should know what they're entitled to from the contract.  If it's a bond then they're entitled to some fixed payment.  If a share then they own the output of everything bought with funds raised - less costs and management fee.

Hmm, this reminds me of people coming and viewing your belongings for sale on craigslist, yet spend the duration of the time kicking tires, and questioning its worth.
Its a very simple concept, either invest, or don't.

Actually the dude has a point.  A bond has a fixed rate coupon (interest rate) and share pays out after company costs and retentions are met.  This is nether a bond or a share and now I have concerns that this operation was not well thought out.

This bond/share creates market confusion when people want to unload it and I don't see how you can run this operation without taking operational costs.

RatLab need to be fair to himself  and keep some of the value he has created.

[bitman442]

Please read through the entire thread before asking questions. Some of this has already been covered if you would take the time to read through everything. I'd understand if it was the Asicminer thread which has over 500 pages, but this is only 3 pages.

[sgrunger]

Interesting.

[Lab_Rat]

  Dividends will be paid out on Saturdays ~12 noon Eastern Time(UTC -0500.)

If I buy the bonds on Wednesday when will the first dividend be paid?  Saturday the 20th of July 2013?  

If so I will buy 100 BTC worth of bonds.

You don't get any dividends until the machines arrive.  After that you get 85% of what the machines you paid a 200% markup for mine.

If you don't want to wait you can achieve the same result faster - just send 2/3 of your BTC to an address you don't have the key for.

Where do you see a 15% fee included? It will be a zero fee company with all running costs covered by the company for life... As well as that, the hashrate per bond will be increasing over time.  In fact Dave from BitFury has agreed to fly out to meet me in order to present a working prototype to me.  I will likely be investing in BitFury a significant amount which will increase the hashrate per bond significantly.

So the answer is NO.

Fuck I hate it when people don't answer the question directly.  It's shady.  Don't dance around a direct question.

Next question are these bonds tradable on an exchange? If so what exchange can I buy and sell them?

BitFunder.com : https://bitfunder.com/asset/LabRatMining

[Lab_Rat]

  Dividends will be paid out on Saturdays ~12 noon Eastern Time(UTC -0500.)

If I buy the bonds on Wednesday when will the first dividend be paid?  Saturday the 20th of July 2013?  

If so I will buy 100 BTC worth of bonds.

You don't get any dividends until the machines arrive.  After that you get 85% of what the machines you paid a 200% markup for mine.

If you don't want to wait you can achieve the same result faster - just send 2/3 of your BTC to an address you don't have the key for.

Where do you see a 15% fee included? It will be a zero fee company with all running costs covered by the company for life... As well as that, the hashrate per bond will be increasing over time.  In fact Dave from BitFury has agreed to fly out to meet me in order to present a working prototype to me.  I will likely be investing in BitFury a significant amount which will increase the hashrate per bond significantly.

Sorry - was confusing this with one of the other offerings trying to sell on hardware/pre-orders at a big markup.

Make up your mind whether you're running a bond or a share.

If it's a bond then fix in stone what gets paid.
If it's a share then add accountability in - and take your cut via a defined management fee.

This vague "it's sort of a bond but I'll try to give a bit more than X but without any guarantees and I'll keep whatever I feel like" approach just isn't one or the other.  Investors should know what they're entitled to from the contract.  If it's a bond then they're entitled to some fixed payment.  If a share then they own the output of everything bought with funds raised - less costs and management fee.

Hmm, this reminds me of people coming and viewing your belongings for sale on craigslist, yet spend the duration of the time kicking tires, and questioning its worth.
Its a very simple concept, either invest, or don't.

Actually the dude has a point.  A bond has a fixed rate coupon (interest rate) and share pays out after company costs and retentions are met.  This is nether a bond or a share and now I have concerns that this operation was not well thought out.

This bond/share creates market confusion when people want to unload it and I don't see how you can run this operation without taking operational costs.

RatLab need to be fair to himself  and keep some of the value he has created.

I'm sorry you feel as though it wasn't thought out, maybe I didn't like either a bond or a share scheme.  One the investors are locked in at a certain hashrate even if new tech comes out meaning their dividends are constantly shrinking.  The other, I would have to keep shares as to maintain ownership of my own company which gets messy if I want to issue new shares...

I just wanted something that could reward both parties and increase in worth over time instead of deteriorate in value.

Also thank you for being understanding of the fact that I should not run a high scale mining company and put myself in the hole while doing it.  I have already sunk hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars into this company before I took a dime from anyone.  I didn't even take money from the few individuals I let pledge initial investments to me.  They were only there to see if there would be interest in my starting up a company.

[Kyune]

Lab_rat  what hardware have you ordered with BFL , dates on which order was placed with BFL or do you already have got some BFL hardware to mine with ?

This question was not directly answered by Lab_Rat.

However from the overall presentation of the offering, I infer the answers are:  1) nothing has been ordered from BFL yet, 2) not applicable since not ordered yet, 3) no hardware is presently available to mine with.

Lab_Rat, please clarify if I have inferred the wrong answers.

[Nemesis]

Who is "we"? list all the people involved with this company.

[desired_username]

Due to no responses to the raised questions I'm withdrawing my interest.

Be careful people.

[Lab_Rat]

I apologize for missing a few questions, I have been extremely busy.  I have orders placed going back to Sept with 3 people selling me their gear second hand as soon as they get it (June and July orders)  This total hashrate is in the 2-3TH range I believe... I'm in the process of determining the exact amount.  On top of this, I will be placing a large order with BFL and BitFury.  The size of the BitFury order is unknown as to yet, but will likely raise the hashrate per bond.

So I am following 3 paths at the same time to ensure I get the gear as soon as possible, but I can't be sure as to when either of these companies can ship... It's not a matter of exact date, but rather relative to everyone else shipping...

I hope I have answered your question, but to be honest, it is impossible to give you a date for everything at this time.

[||bit]

I apologize for missing a few questions, I have been extremely busy.  I have orders placed going back to Sept with 3 people selling me their gear second hand as soon as they get it (June and July orders)  This total hashrate is in the 2-3TH range I believe... I'm in the process of determining the exact amount.  On top of this, I will be placing a large order with BFL and BitFury.  The size of the BitFury order is unknown as to yet, but will likely raise the hashrate per bond.

So I am following 3 paths at the same time to ensure I get the gear as soon as possible, but I can't be sure as to when either of these companies can ship... It's not a matter of exact date, but rather relative to everyone else shipping...

I hope I have answered your question, but to be honest, it is impossible to give you a date for everything at this time.

Labrat.
Another route to consider is DIY kits from Bitfury. If you can save even 25%, it would serve LRM & 'bond' holders well and approximate more closely a 100% re-investment plan that would have been based on full priced rigs.

Also, consider those with BFL vouchers. Perhaps, you can ask any of the bond holders if they have BFL vouchers they won't use for themselves. Then you pay for and order the hardware through them, but have it dropped at LR address.

Another plan is ask any bond holders if they have chip credits they want to dump on LRM. Buy the BFL chips and trade the chips for hardware from existing other manufacturers.

But if you can get a fast delivery on Bitfury hardware, it seems the best route so far. It would even be better than BFL w/ vouchers.

||bit

[ThickAsThieves]

I haven't really taken a look at this asset until now, and I'm must say I'm baffled about why anyone would buy it. There are so many holes in the prospectus, and so much risk it isn't even funny.

1. Do bondholders own the equipment they are paying for?
2. Will there be any transparency for purchase prices? Proof of purchases?
3. Does the company have any assets or experience to justify such a large fundraising effort?
4. What pool will you mine on to prove your work?
5. Why on earth would anyone want to buy into stale BFL orders? Why order from any company that has not demonstrated reliable delivery?
6. When does mining start?
7. What's in it for Lab Rat?

I could go on, but that's enough for now.

[hawkingchen]

I haven't really taken a look at this asset until now, and I'm must say I'm baffled about why anyone would buy it. There are so many holes in the prospectus, and so much risk it isn't even funny.

1. Do bondholders own the equipment they are paying for?
2. Will there be any transparency for purchase prices? Proof of purchases?
3. Does the company have any assets or experience to justify such a large fundraising effort?
4. What pool will you mine on to prove your work?
5. Why on earth would anyone want to buy into stale BFL orders? Why order from any company that has not demonstrated reliable delivery?
6. When does mining start?
7. What's in it for Lab Rat?

I could go on, but that's enough for now.

Good  question!!!!!