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SimonBelmond
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August 30, 2013, 12:57:04 PM |
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I think a lot of people thought they would have a lot of things by now... I was sure I'd bet on the right horse for such a long time, which makes it an even more bitter pill to swallow to only now discover that the people I've been defending all this time have, in fact, screwed me.  I hear Ya. The more I think about the future for me, Its heading out of owning mining equipment, and more investing into cloud mining ventures like LRM. GPU , FPGA, ASIC mining was fun while it lasted, but the future is not there. After this current clusterfuck with Bitsyncom, sadly, it has made my decision for me. Cheers. If it makes you feel any better it's probably still not as bad as having a relatively early order for a lot of Singles with BFL... I ordered Jalapenos for all my friends, and saw them arrive months ago, and they've made >300% back already. My Singles will probably never pay for themselves now and they were ordered at the same time (and for a lot more money!). Still, I said from the start, high risk, high reward...  I was thinking of selling my 03.April.13 BFL order to LRM but I think until I get anything I will have to pay someone to dispose of them as waste. I was hoping to get them way before 28nm is anywhere near. Now my hope is that all the 28nm companies also take much more time then stated on their sites. That said, it seems that even the early jalapeno orders will not make back their money in terms of BTC. I was at the time (April 13) thinking that the BTC value was overrated (140$) and therefore spending them on hardware at that price was a smart move. Turns out it wasn't. I don't think I'll ever see 35 BTC with those again even when neglecting power cost. I was stupid enough to pay 600$ for express shipping for my 180GH. Over 4 BTC down the drain. So it seems with investments in the BTC space it is very difficult to reach profit if you think purely in BTC. It is hard to outperform just holding BTC. Especially if you deal with a company which constantly over-promises and under-performs. However, I think LRM has potential as LR can diversify and can operate much more efficiently than we can at home. |
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In order to get the maximum amount of activity points possible, you just need to post once per day on average. Skipping days is OK as long as you maintain the average.
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grnbrg
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August 30, 2013, 03:27:55 PM |
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Of the bonds listed last weekend (500 @0.20, 1000@0.225 and 500@0.25) the first 1500 have sold, and the 500@0.25 have sold. The 500 at 0.25 are selling well now. @Lab_Rat has now added 500@0.275 and 500@0.30 for sale. Once these outstanding bonds are filled, LabRatMining will have sold in excess of 41,000 bonds. grnbrg. |
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mmmerlin
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August 30, 2013, 03:30:42 PM |
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I think a lot of people thought they would have a lot of things by now... I was sure I'd bet on the right horse for such a long time, which makes it an even more bitter pill to swallow to only now discover that the people I've been defending all this time have, in fact, screwed me. I hear Ya. The more I think about the future for me, Its heading out of owning mining equipment, and more investing into cloud mining ventures like LRM. GPU , FPGA, ASIC mining was fun while it lasted, but the future is not there. After this current clusterfuck with Bitsyncom, sadly, it has made my decision for me. Cheers. If it makes you feel any better it's probably still not as bad as having a relatively early order for a lot of Singles with BFL... I ordered Jalapenos for all my friends, and saw them arrive months ago, and they've made >300% back already. My Singles will probably never pay for themselves now and they were ordered at the same time (and for a lot more money!). Still, I said from the start, high risk, high reward... I was thinking of selling my 03.April.13 BFL order to LRM but I think until I get anything I will have to pay someone to dispose of them as waste. I was hoping to get them way before 28nm is anywhere near. Now my hope is that all the 28nm companies also take much more time then stated on their sites. That said, it seems that even the early jalapeno orders will not make back their money in terms of BTC. I was at the time (April 13) thinking that the BTC value was overrated (140$) and therefore spending them on hardware at that price was a smart move. Turns out it wasn't. I don't think I'll ever see 35 BTC with those again even when neglecting power cost. I was stupid enough to pay 600$ for express shipping for my 180GH. Over 4 BTC down the drain. So it seems with investments in the BTC space it is very difficult to reach profit if you think purely in BTC. It is hard to outperform just holding BTC. Especially if you deal with a company which constantly over-promises and under-performs. However, I think LRM has potential as LR can diversify and can operate much more efficiently than we can at home. Many sounds points. And BFL are over-promising and under-delivering again with the Monarch, I'll put money against. Sadly though, this is not true of all 28nm companies, especially CoinTerra; I would be very surprised if they slip by a considerable amount on anything. There is virtually no chance of them being another BFL, and every chance of the Monarch being another BFL. Doubly sadly this is the worst of both worlds for people with current BFL orders, as switch to 28nm with them will probably make things even worse. Look on the bright side though, at least you didn't order with BTC when they were like $6... |
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||bit
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August 30, 2013, 07:23:14 PM |
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Many sounds points. And BFL are over-promising and under-delivering again with the Monarch, I'll put money against.
Sadly though, this is not true of all 28nm companies, especially CoinTerra; I would be very surprised if they slip by a considerable amount on anything. There is virtually no chance of them being another BFL, and every chance of the Monarch being another BFL. Doubly sadly this is the worst of both worlds for people with current BFL orders, as switch to 28nm with them will probably make things even worse.
Look on the bright side though, at least you didn't order with BTC when they were like $6...
BFL is competitive, but they are too tainted. Cointerra has a more efficient product (price + performance), faster expected time to delivery, shows more professionalism and so far describes plans for higher customer satisfaction. They are also fairly transparent. How many video's has the CEO of Butterfly Labs made to discuss the company and products? I think they will actually pull it off, delivering in December. And if they deliver in January, that is not bad either. They guaranteed that they'd give customers an extra 20% hashing rate over their purchase if delivery was later than 30 days (probably not enough to compensate for a month of difficulty increase, but it's something). |
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mmmerlin
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August 30, 2013, 07:41:23 PM |
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Many sounds points. And BFL are over-promising and under-delivering again with the Monarch, I'll put money against.
Sadly though, this is not true of all 28nm companies, especially CoinTerra; I would be very surprised if they slip by a considerable amount on anything. There is virtually no chance of them being another BFL, and every chance of the Monarch being another BFL. Doubly sadly this is the worst of both worlds for people with current BFL orders, as switch to 28nm with them will probably make things even worse.
Look on the bright side though, at least you didn't order with BTC when they were like $6...
BFL is competitive, but they are too tainted. Cointerra has a more efficient product (price + performance), faster expected time to delivery, shows more professionalism and so far describes plans for higher customer satisfaction. They are also fairly transparent. How many video's has the CEO of Butterfly Labs made to discuss the company and products? I think they will actually pull it off, delivering in December. And if they deliver in January, that is not bad either. They guaranteed that they'd give customers an extra 20% hashing rate over their purchase if delivery was later than 30 days (probably not enough to compensate for a month of difficulty increase, but it's something). I agree with everything except the first sentence, as that seems to contradict everything else you've said. Given everything else is true (which I think it is), how do you conclude that BFL is still competitive (even assuming they deliver on time and on spec, which I will wager heavily against them doing.)? |
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||bit
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August 30, 2013, 10:41:31 PM |
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I agree with everything except the first sentence, as that seems to contradict everything else you've said.
Given everything else is true (which I think it is), how do you conclude that BFL is still competitive (even assuming they deliver on time and on spec, which I will wager heavily against them doing.)?
I think they are competitive in a narrow sense... usually pricing (except in these last days of their 65nm product) & maybe in the area of keeping customers on the hook (not that that is a good thing - but it is a kind of fighting spirit). This might be a different kind of competitiveness than you are thinking... there might be a better word for it. Anyway, historically, they have had the best (most efficient) products. Here are a few examples of their competitiveness: 1. BFL's FPGA Singles were the best price for GH of all sources. 2. When Avalon came out with their better pricing than BFL. Shortly thereafter, BFL matched the GH/$. It was a significant change to their price:performance. 3. Of the several companies promising 28nm products, BFL is second in price + performance. But despite that, I don't think they will be able to keep up with Cointerra. BFL will probably end up in their shadow. HashFast(HF) also has my attention, their pricing is about double BFL, but HF may be one of the first to deliver. |
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BKM
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August 30, 2013, 10:54:10 PM |
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Remember - LRM is agnostic as to hardware producers..... others (I.E. ASICMINER and ICEDRILL) are not.
Also, I cannot understand for a second how a company like LRM is valued so low compared to ASICMINER, ACTIVEMINING when it is paying much higher dividends.
And, don't get me started about ICEDRILL - going to mine in November (maybe) and has a BTC42,360 market cap.
LRM has a BTC9,318 market cap, is mining now and paying dividends.
Such as smart move for Zach to move to market pricing as his total yield from the IPO should be much greater than anticipated.
He just needs some help communicating this out to the BTC world..... every shareholder should be beating the drum in forums etc to get people to look at this as an option to compare against other cloud miners......
No question in my mind that LRM is the best value going now.
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mmmerlin
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August 30, 2013, 11:34:31 PM |
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I agree with everything except the first sentence, as that seems to contradict everything else you've said.
Given everything else is true (which I think it is), how do you conclude that BFL is still competitive (even assuming they deliver on time and on spec, which I will wager heavily against them doing.)?
I think they are competitive in a narrow sense... usually pricing (except in these last days of their 65nm product) & maybe in the area of keeping customers on the hook (not that that is a good thing - but it is a kind of fighting spirit). This might be a different kind of competitiveness than you are thinking... there might be a better word for it. Anyway, historically, they have had the best (most efficient) products. Here are a few examples of their competitiveness: 1. BFL's FPGA Singles were the best price for GH of all sources. 2. When Avalon came out with their better pricing than BFL. Shortly thereafter, BFL matched the GH/$. It was a significant change to their price:performance. 3. Of the several companies promising 28nm products, BFL is second in price + performance. But despite that, I don't think they will be able to keep up with Cointerra. BFL will probably end up in their shadow. HashFast(HF) also has my attention, their pricing is about double BFL, but HF may be one of the first to deliver. Oh right, yes, perhaps a slight misunderstanding then. Historically they have been 100% competitive, or rather, the total leader (IMHO) for pretty much the whole post-GPU era. And I also completely agree, in terms of keeping people on the hook (or stringing them along) they are uniquely skilled!  CoinTerra has it all though, and BFL will be crushed pretty soon, I'm sure. The only way they will remain in anyone's shadow is through their ability to string people along. CoinTerra have a working prototype and BFL haven't even taped out yet. CoinTerra have all the experience, BFL have a little, but a history of fuck-ups. It's only the fact that they're getting people to commit now that they will stay in business. It's an underhanded tactic, but an understandable one. It's a weird situation where people have to offer preorders or they'll lose market share, and it's a viscious cycle that's keeping it this way. I don't blame BFL for trying to keep their customers with great promises which they'll never be able to deliver on time and on spec/budget, for one simple reason: fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. BFL customers who switch now can't claim not to have known who they were getting in bed with this time... |
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mmmerlin
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August 30, 2013, 11:35:21 PM |
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Remember - LRM is agnostic as to hardware producers..... others (I.E. ASICMINER and ICEDRILL) are not.
Also, I cannot understand for a second how a company like LRM is valued so low compared to ASICMINER, ACTIVEMINING when it is paying much higher dividends.
And, don't get me started about ICEDRILL - going to mine in November (maybe) and has a BTC42,360 market cap.
LRM has a BTC9,318 market cap, is mining now and paying dividends.
Such as smart move for Zach to move to market pricing as his total yield from the IPO should be much greater than anticipated.
He just needs some help communicating this out to the BTC world..... every shareholder should be beating the drum in forums etc to get people to look at this as an option to compare against other cloud miners......
No question in my mind that LRM is the best value going now.
I quite agree, go spread the word! Big things are on the horizon! |
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Lab_Rat (OP)
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August 31, 2013, 02:58:23 PM |
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To avoid a large cut in this weeks dividends, I've decided to spread out the recovering of last weeks double payout over a couple weeks.
Dividends were just paid: 41,414 @ ฿0.00066604 for a total of ฿27.58338056.
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Bargraphics
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August 31, 2013, 03:12:02 PM |
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To avoid a large cut in this weeks dividends, I've decided to spread out the recovering of last weeks double payout over a couple weeks.
Dividends were just paid: 41,414 @ ฿0.00066604 for a total of ฿27.58338056.
Great! Can we get how much was taken out and how much is left? |
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mmmerlin
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August 31, 2013, 03:19:17 PM |
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To avoid a large cut in this weeks dividends, I've decided to spread out the recovering of last weeks double payout over a couple weeks.
Dividends were just paid: 41,414 @ ฿0.00066604 for a total of ฿27.58338056.
Could you be a little more quantitative please? How much it would have been had there been no cuts, i.e. what percentage was actually paid? And also, when you say "a couple of weeks" does that mean that next week will be the last week with reduced dividends, or are you spreading it out further than that I just think it's important that people know what to expect, especially as this is affects people's buying and selling decisions (and also, fwiw, this is not in keeping with what was announced previously about the way in which the double dividend situation would be dealt with, not that I'm really bothered, but some people might be...) |
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mmmerlin
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August 31, 2013, 03:19:54 PM |
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To avoid a large cut in this weeks dividends, I've decided to spread out the recovering of last weeks double payout over a couple weeks.
Dividends were just paid: 41,414 @ ฿0.00066604 for a total of ฿27.58338056.
Great! Can we get how much was taken out and how much is left? Great minds apparently think alike  |
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mmmerlin
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August 31, 2013, 07:58:41 PM |
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Just a quick query on the hash rate per bond listed on the website: You list 34.27MH/s/bond, but using the numbers 1.3TH/s, 41,414 bonds and 75% payout that only gives 23.55MH/s by my calculations. Which one of these needs changing? Also, even taking the value of 23.55MH/s/bond and multiplying by the number of bonds I'm holding, and accounting for the 5 BTC held back for recouping the dividend mistake, I still seem to be coming up considerably short. Any idea why that might be? |
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KonstantinosM
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August 31, 2013, 09:16:16 PM |
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I can't help but think that this mining operation is slightly overpriced.
If every share cost reaches an estimated .25 BTC at 1 Million shares it would cost 250,000 BTC that is more than 1% of the total BTC that will ever be in existence!
I do doubt that any one person could sell all the shares at once and it is uncertain what the price of the stock will be or the number of stocks that will be issued but we're talking about a whole lot of BTC here.
I'm a latecomer to crypto-currencies I've only been active since Fall 2012 so I wonder what people think about this.
I have 6 shares of LabRatMining (I like this BTC farm)
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Syscoin has the best of Bitcoin and Ethereum in one place, it's merge mined with Bitcoin so it is plugged into Bitcoin's ecosystem and takes full advantage of it's POW while rewarding Bitcoin miners with Syscoin
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mmmerlin
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August 31, 2013, 09:22:09 PM |
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I can't help but think that this mining operation is slightly overpriced.
If every share cost reaches an estimated .25 BTC at 1 Million shares it would cost 250,000 BTC that is more than 1% of the total BTC that will ever be in existence!
I do doubt that any one person could sell all the shares at once and it is uncertain what the price of the stock will be or the number of stocks that will be issued but we're talking about a whole lot of BTC here.
I'm a latecomer to crypto-currencies I've only been active since Fall 2012 so I wonder what people think about this.
I have 6 shares of LabRatMining (I like this BTC farm)
But where did the figure of 1 millions bonds come from?! Why not 1 billion? Also, at the projected 600MH/s per bond, 1M shares would give LRM 600TH/s, which would mean that being valued at 1% of the total BTC would probably be quite cheap as it would control most of the network! But the point is, where is this number coming from? It doesn't have any relation to the share-price... (there are currently 41,414 shares in circulation btw) |
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Bargraphics
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August 31, 2013, 10:21:09 PM |
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Just a quick query on the hash rate per bond listed on the website: You list 34.27MH/s/bond, but using the numbers 1.3TH/s, 41,414 bonds and 75% payout that only gives 23.55MH/s by my calculations. Which one of these needs changing? Also, even taking the value of 23.55MH/s/bond and multiplying by the number of bonds I'm holding, and accounting for the 5 BTC held back for recouping the dividend mistake, I still seem to be coming up considerably short. Any idea why that might be? He stated that the 1.3TH was only mining for around 1 Day of last week because of the 120 Confirmations per block, they also had some bad luck involved as well. The calculations add up. Now that we have a full week of that 1.3TH at the same difficulty we'll see a decent payout this coming week. At the same time he just announced we would be at ~2TH by the end of this week/beginning of next week. |
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mmmerlin
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August 31, 2013, 10:32:39 PM |
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Just a quick query on the hash rate per bond listed on the website: You list 34.27MH/s/bond, but using the numbers 1.3TH/s, 41,414 bonds and 75% payout that only gives 23.55MH/s by my calculations. Which one of these needs changing? Also, even taking the value of 23.55MH/s/bond and multiplying by the number of bonds I'm holding, and accounting for the 5 BTC held back for recouping the dividend mistake, I still seem to be coming up considerably short. Any idea why that might be? He stated that the 1.3TH was only mining for around 1 Day of last week because of the 120 Confirmations per block, they also had some bad luck involved as well. The calculations add up. Now that we have a full week of that 1.3TH at the same difficulty we'll see a decent payout this coming week. At the same time he just announced we would be at ~2TH by the end of this week/beginning of next week. Fair enough - my calculations said they didn't quite add up even considering all that and was curious to hear his thoughts, but as you say, maybe it all works out... Either way, the future's not looking too bad |
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