[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread

[Vbs]

Public investor's protection plan
The first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares have the privilege of getting all profits until BTC0.0025/share is paid, starting from the day when dividends begin to be paid.

In essence, all profits go to the "first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares" until ActiveMining has made 25k BTC (or around $2.5 million) in profit.

Mining:

If the difficulty increases 10% every 2016 blocks for the next year or so, then even if all 6.4 TH/s that ActiveMining plans to bring online starts mining now, the total expected mining revenue is only about 19k BTC. I believe 19k is very optimistic. In other words, profits from mining will never reach 0.0025 BTC/share unless ActiveMining increases its hash power at least as fast as the difficulty rises.

Sales:

Mining will never reach the 0.0025 BTC/share threshold, so it will be up to sales to make up the difference. In order to make $2.5 million in revenue, ActiveMining will have to sell at least 50 of the 25 TH/s units. Actually, it will have to sell many more than that to make $2.5 million in profit. I don't know enough to even guess at what the sales would have to be. That information has not been provided.

The real issue is that ActiveMining has not given enough information for anyone to determine whether or not they can profit from an investment in ActiveMining. From the information given out so far, my belief is that it is possible, but not likely.

Does ActiveMining have a business plan? Does it show how they expect to succeed? Is it available to investors?

The mining part you stated is only about the Avalon chips. ActiveMining will use its own 28nm 16GH/s (~15W) chip to boost mining as further as possible, at a much lesser cost and higher efficiency than competing offerings.

If you still wish to mantain your NO vote, I expect you to be congruent and change your vote to NO in every ASICMINER offering in btct.co, since it's the exact same business model/plan.

[VolanicEruptor]

In other words, profits from mining will never reach 0.0025 BTC/share unless ActiveMining increases its hash power at least as fast as the difficulty rises.

I highly doubt Activemining would limit itself to your numbers.  They will obviously continue investing in new hashing power as the opportunity arises, as well as more hardware production, just as Friedcat does.

Sell your hashing power as hardware when you reach a good portion of the network, and then liquidate your excess equipment to the market for an ever higher markup.  Produce more, hash more, sell, repeat..       

[ArcticWolf]

Public investor's protection plan
The first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares have the privilege of getting all profits until BTC0.0025/share is paid, starting from the day when dividends begin to be paid.

In essence, all profits go to the "first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares" until ActiveMining has made 25k BTC (or around $2.5 million) in profit.

Mining:

If the difficulty increases 10% every 2016 blocks for the next year or so, then even if all 6.4 TH/s that ActiveMining plans to bring online starts mining now, the total expected mining revenue is only about 19k BTC. I believe 19k is very optimistic. In other words, profits from mining will never reach 0.0025 BTC/share unless ActiveMining increases its hash power at least as fast as the difficulty rises.

Sales:

Mining will never reach the 0.0025 BTC/share threshold, so it will be up to sales to make up the difference. In order to make $2.5 million in revenue, ActiveMining will have to sell at least 50 of the 25 TH/s units. Actually, it will have to sell many more than that to make $2.5 million in profit. I don't know enough to even guess at what the sales would have to be. That information has not been provided.

The real issue is that ActiveMining has not given enough information for anyone to determine whether or not they can profit from an investment in ActiveMining. From the information given out so far, my belief is that it is possible, but not likely.

Does ActiveMining have a business plan? Does it show how they expect to succeed? Is it available to investors?

As AM is a mining and a sales company, bringing more hashing power online is as easy as walking down to the factory floor, picking up a machine from the production line and turning it on. The 6.4TH/s is only the avalon chips.

Also the sales profit doesnt need to equal $2.5 million, because as you said it only needs to make up the difference between Mining and the final figure, so closer to maybe $1 mil. Pre-orders are already starting to come in.

And as VBS said, this is essentially the same business model that ASICMINER follows, and Ken has been far more transparent than ASICMINER from what I have seen

[Vbs]

Is the 28nm chips that ACM will deliver the best thing on the market in the near future or is there a competition promising to deliver even more top notch stuff? (let's say this year)

KnC is also developing a 28nm 100GH/s (~250W) chip, expected for September, although it uses ~2.67x more power for the same hashrate (0.4GH/s/W vs. ActM's chip at 1.067GH/s/W).

When the NRE funds are gathered, ActM will have chips fully rolling out (e-beamed) in just 3 months.

What are the current plans for chip development?
ActiveMining is in the process of gathering necessary funds for paying NRE costs on its 28nm chip. We hope these funds to be gathered soon, so that chip production can start as soon as possible. Estimated dates after NRE payment are:

• Chip samples delivered in 9 weeks;
• Low-volume chip production starting in 12 weeks, using an e-beam process;
• Normal volume chip production starting in 16-18 weeks.

[lewicki]

0/2 on BTC-TC. Looks like they want a business plan. Ken, can you put one up?

[navitatl]

Yes to AMC-PT but no to AM? Just curious, maybe it would be better if it was called ActiveMiner-PT. That might be more technically accurate too..

[kslaughter]

In other words, profits from mining will never reach 0.0025 BTC/share unless ActiveMining increases its hash power at least as fast as the difficulty rises.

I highly doubt Activemining would limit itself to your numbers.  They will obviously continue investing in new hashing power as the opportunity arises, as well as more hardware production, just as Friedcat does.

Sell your hashing power as hardware when you reach a good portion of the network, and then liquidate your excess equipment to the market for an ever higher markup.  Produce more, hash more, sell, repeat..       

Very Very Sharp! 

[VolanicEruptor]

0/2 on BTC-TC. Looks like they want a business plan. Ken, can you put one up?

[FloatesMcgoates]

Well while the BTCT situation is getting worked on I managed to buy a few thousand over at bitfunder at a 15% discount.

[kslaughter]

0/2 on BTC-TC. Looks like they want a business plan. Ken, can you put one up?

Yes, I can do that.

[stereotype]

Who else is looking at the way those ask orders are stacked, especially the ones after .00250, and thinking, hmmmm?

Tactics yes, but not sure its trading tactics.

[pneumatic5]

Is the 28nm chips that ACM will deliver the best thing on the market in the near future or is there a competition promising to deliver even more top notch stuff? (let's say this year)

KnC is also developing a 28nm 100GH/s (~250W) chip, expected for September, although it uses ~2.67x more power for the same hashrate (0.4GH/s/W vs. ActM's chip at 1.067GH/s/W).

When the NRE funds are gathered, ActM will have chips fully rolling out (e-beamed) in just 3 months.

What are the current plans for chip development?
ActiveMining is in the process of gathering necessary funds for paying NRE costs on its 28nm chip. We hope these funds to be gathered soon, so that chip production can start as soon as possible. Estimated dates after NRE payment are:

• Chip samples delivered in 9 weeks;
• Low-volume chip production starting in 12 weeks, using an e-beam process;
• Normal volume chip production starting in 16-18 weeks.

Bitfury just got 1.2GH/s for 0.8 watts. How do you think that will play out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYyrNhLwrn0

[kslaughter]

BTC-TC Business Plan:

================================================================

Mission Statement:

"Make Our Customer And Investor Successful, Then The Company Will Be Successful"

Our goal as a merged company is 1) To create the "World Largest Bitcoin Mining Farm"  2) To be the #1 Manufacture of bitcoin mining machines in the world.

Growth & Potential:

Manufacturing Business (VMC)

VMC expects to sell 921.6 TH/s of mining equipment in the Next 12 months.

Mining Business (AMC Belize)

AMC expects to build the "World Largest Bitcoin Mining Farm" using its own developed 28nm ASIC "World Fastest Bitcoin Mining Chip" with our partner http://www.eASIC.Com using their Fast Turnaround Process.

The mining business expects to be mining in the next 24 months with this amout of hashing power:

Total Bitcoin Mining Equipment hashing power by March 2015 (992,384,000 MH/s * 992,384 GH/s * 992.384 TH/s)


The global ActiveMining's income, including mining income, hardware sales via bitcoins, other cryptocoins and fiat transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to ActiveMining shareholders proportionally, after all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, growth and miscellaneous expenses are deducted.

This is a contiuation of the Active Mining Cooperative mining business listed here:

https://bitfunder.com/asset/AMC click on Profile->Description.

And adding to that business Virtual Mining Corporation's business listed here:

http://www.virtualminingcorp.com

[Matt_S]

Who else is looking at the way those ask orders are stacked, especially the ones after .00250, and thinking, hmmmm?

Tactics yes, but not sure its trading tactics.

I thought the same thing, looks a though someone is intentionally trying to keep the price down

[kslaughter]

BTC-TC Business Plan:

...

That's not a plan. That's a list of goals, and there is no information about how you can achieve them.

Did you click on the links and read the description?

[VolanicEruptor]

... Final PCB design will be completed within the next 24 hours and sent to the fab houses for production.

That sounds like a plan...

We are working with both US and oversees PCB fab houses in order to reduce manufacturing lead time so all components are ready prior to chip arrival.
The BOM has been purchased, and parts have begun arriving at the assembly house. All parts should be in and ready for assembly by next week.

That sounds like a plan...

Hi Gerald,

    We expect to have the prototype boards completed by July 23^rd . We would be
    ready for your visit / prototype verification, the week of the 29^th .
    Please let me know when you plan to be here. Will you send us cable sets,
    boxes, power supplies etc? We can verify there are no issues that will slow
    us down once you get here.

    Best regards,

That sounds like someone else is moving along with the plan as well!  hmm..

Our Fast-Hash-One chip is being developed for VMC by

eASIC: http://www.easic.com

using there Fast ASIC Turn Around process

That sounds like a plan..

Avalon prototype boards - The engineering firm that he employed for the boards has the 60 sample chips from the 2 avalon chip bulk orders, pictures will be coming for those when he gets his hands on them within 2 weeks. There are 20,000 of them incoming. Avalon will start shipping the chips at the beginning of July. AMC has pre-orders a for a few of these, the rest will be built and mined by AM

That sounds like a plan..


- 6 Avalon miners, running on BTC Guild under "Team AMC" for around 430 GH/s.
- Order of Avalon chips from steamboat's batch #1, for 68 Klondike-16 boards, rated at 68*16*282 = 307 GH/s
- 20,000 Avalon chips (end of May and beginging of June orders), for a combined hashrate of 20,000*282 = 5,640 GH/s
In total, around 6,377 GH/s[/b].

And that was more plans with the current assets and orders
want more??

VMC has a contract with AMC to repay to AMC 100% of the Non Recuring Engeering (NRE) fee that
AMC provides to VMC to develope an ASIC for bitcoin mining.  VMC will pay to AMC 100% of the profits
from bulk chips sales after AMC's royalty payment, cost of goods sold, and all direct expenses required
to sale the chips. 

Sounds like planning involved with NRE.  Cool hey?


So there's SOME of the plans Ken has layed out.  There are a shitload of other plans but I think  posting them are redundant because you can just read through the thread to see them.

If you still do not consider these plans, please be more specific because from what I have posted here seems to match up perfectly with the definition of
plan;


[plan] Show IPA noun, verb, planned, plan·ning.
noun
1.
a scheme or method of acting, doing, proceeding, making, etc., developed in advance: battle plans.
2.
a design or scheme of arrangement: an elaborate plan for seating guests.
3.
a specific project or definite purpose: plans for the future.
4.
Also called plan view. a drawing made to scale to represent the top view or a horizontal section of a structure or a machine, as a floor layout of a building.
5.
a representation of a thing drawn on a plane, as a map or diagram: a plan of the dock area.

[ArcticWolf]

... Final PCB design will be completed within the next 24 hours and sent to the fab houses for production.

That sounds like a plan...

We are working with both US and oversees PCB fab houses in order to reduce manufacturing lead time so all components are ready prior to chip arrival.
The BOM has been purchased, and parts have begun arriving at the assembly house. All parts should be in and ready for assembly by next week.

That sounds like a plan...

Hi Gerald,

    We expect to have the prototype boards completed by July 23^rd . We would be
    ready for your visit / prototype verification, the week of the 29^th .
    Please let me know when you plan to be here. Will you send us cable sets,
    boxes, power supplies etc? We can verify there are no issues that will slow
    us down once you get here.

    Best regards,

That sounds like someone else is moving along with the plan as well!  hmm..

Our Fast-Hash-One chip is being developed for VMC by

eASIC: http://www.easic.com

using there Fast ASIC Turn Around process

That sounds like a plan..

Avalon prototype boards - The engineering firm that he employed for the boards has the 60 sample chips from the 2 avalon chip bulk orders, pictures will be coming for those when he gets his hands on them within 2 weeks. There are 20,000 of them incoming. Avalon will start shipping the chips at the beginning of July. AMC has pre-orders a for a few of these, the rest will be built and mined by AM

That sounds like a plan..


- 6 Avalon miners, running on BTC Guild under "Team AMC" for around 430 GH/s.
- Order of Avalon chips from steamboat's batch #1, for 68 Klondike-16 boards, rated at 68*16*282 = 307 GH/s
- 20,000 Avalon chips (end of May and beginging of June orders), for a combined hashrate of 20,000*282 = 5,640 GH/s
In total, around 6,377 GH/s[/b].

And that was more plans with the current assets and orders
want more??

VMC has a contract with AMC to repay to AMC 100% of the Non Recuring Engeering (NRE) fee that
AMC provides to VMC to develope an ASIC for bitcoin mining.  VMC will pay to AMC 100% of the profits
from bulk chips sales after AMC's royalty payment, cost of goods sold, and all direct expenses required
to sale the chips. 

Sounds like planning involved with NRE.  Cool hey?


So there's SOME of the plans Ken has layed out.  There are a shitload of other plans but I think  posting them are redundant because you can just read through the thread to see them.

If you still do not consider these plans, please be more specific because from what I have posted here seems to match up perfectly with the definition of
plan;


[plan] Show IPA noun, verb, planned, plan·ning.
noun
1.
a scheme or method of acting, doing, proceeding, making, etc., developed in advance: battle plans.
2.
a design or scheme of arrangement: an elaborate plan for seating guests.
3.
a specific project or definite purpose: plans for the future.
4.
Also called plan view. a drawing made to scale to represent the top view or a horizontal section of a structure or a machine, as a floor layout of a building.
5.
a representation of a thing drawn on a plane, as a map or diagram: a plan of the dock area.

+1

Great post, well written. The plans have been laid out plainly since the beginning.

[kslaughter]

Yes to AMC-PT but no to AM? Just curious, maybe it would be better if it was called ActiveMiner-PT. That might be more technically accurate too..

It is not going to be a pass-thru, as the offering allows shares to be traded on different exchanges.  The limit is only 10,000,000 can be issued at any one time over all the exchanges.

[Surprise]

... a bunch of updates and a random email ...

+1

Great post, well written. The plans have been laid out plainly since the beginning.

It looks like somebody is doing something, but that is not a plan.

The purpose of providing a plan to investors is so that they can evaluate the company and verify for themselves that the goals that the company has set for itself are actually achievable.

I want something that I can take to industry experts and ask them if this company has a realistic plan as well as the resources and experience to pull it off.

 Fanboys don't care about any of that, of course.

What "industry experts"? Bitcoin mining is a new industry and is currently in a state of revolution from where it was at just 6 months ago. Ken has provided enough details as to his intentions and how he will realize them for someone who has done research into the situation. You're going to have to look into things yourself to decide if AM is worth it or not...

[Vbs]

Is the 28nm chips that ACM will deliver the best thing on the market in the near future or is there a competition promising to deliver even more top notch stuff? (let's say this year)

KnC is also developing a 28nm 100GH/s (~250W) chip, expected for September, although it uses ~2.67x more power for the same hashrate (0.4GH/s/W vs. ActM's chip at 1.067GH/s/W).

When the NRE funds are gathered, ActM will have chips fully rolling out (e-beamed) in just 3 months.

What are the current plans for chip development?
ActiveMining is in the process of gathering necessary funds for paying NRE costs on its 28nm chip. We hope these funds to be gathered soon, so that chip production can start as soon as possible. Estimated dates after NRE payment are:

• Chip samples delivered in 9 weeks;
• Low-volume chip production starting in 12 weeks, using an e-beam process;
• Normal volume chip production starting in 16-18 weeks.

Bitfury just got 1.2GH/s for 0.8 watts. How do you think that will play out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYyrNhLwrn0

Using performance numbers, for 16GH/s, 13.333 of their chips are equal to 1 of ActM. Using power numbers, for 15W, 18.75 of their chips are equal to 1 of ActM. What about the price? Can they get 14-19 chips cheaper than ActM gets 1?

What about when ActM transitions their chip to an easicopy high volume process, where the unit price is like a 1/3-1/4-1/5 of the nextreme price with even less power and more performance?



And after ActM is in the eASIC boat, what about when eASIC gets out their next-gen 14nm in 1-2 years and all Ken has to do is give them a call and say "Convert our design to 14nm please"?