[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread

[Vbs]

Just what the doctor ordered!

[chairforce1]

Ho Lee Fuk

[kslaughter]

I will be getting all the transfers that are tendered before the cutoff time tomorrow done before dividends are paid tomorrow.

This has been a very busy day, getting everything ready for our engineers to build our prototypes, launching our Fast-Hash-One machines,
getting our Google ads running, etc.

[LordMeowMeow]

The site has almost no info and is riddled with grammatical errors and lack of concrete information about the products. When you're asking for $1M+ from investors your About page should probably not have some "lorem ipsum" text sprinkled in it.

"AMC is developing ASIC chips on the 45nm and soon the 28nm processLorem ipsum dolor sit amet consectetuer elit sed diam."

[ArcticWolf]

The site has almost no info and is riddled with grammatical errors and lack of concrete information about the products. When you're asking for $1M+ from investors your About page should probably not have some "lorem ipsum" text sprinkled in it.

"AMC is developing ASIC chips on the 45nm and soon the 28nm processLorem ipsum dolor sit amet consectetuer elit sed diam."

Asicminer doesn't even have a website and look how well they are doing! 
It's early stages, I'm sure Ken will get that sorted soon.

[kslaughter]

The site has almost no info and is riddled with grammatical errors and lack of concrete information about the products. When you're asking for $1M+ from investors your About page should probably not have some "lorem ipsum" text sprinkled in it.

"AMC is developing ASIC chips on the 45nm and soon the 28nm processLorem ipsum dolor sit amet consectetuer elit sed diam."

What page are you looking at?  I can't seem to find this error.

[kslaughter]

The site has almost no info and is riddled with grammatical errors and lack of concrete information about the products. When you're asking for $1M+ from investors your About page should probably not have some "lorem ipsum" text sprinkled in it.

"AMC is developing ASIC chips on the 45nm and soon the 28nm processLorem ipsum dolor sit amet consectetuer elit sed diam."

Asicminer doesn't even have a website and look how well they are doing!  
It's early stages, I'm sure Ken will get that sorted soon.

I will fix it right now, if I can find the error.

Update: Fixed

[ArcticWolf]

I'm on my phone and I can't find it either

[stslimited]

lets watch this play out.

[Technologov]

VMC website problems:
1. On main page it says "Free shipping"
But during order stage 4 I see DHL shipping = $200.

2. On the order page it says "Available", but in fact it is a pre-order. Misleading.
Please avoid becoming another BFL, and state thing clearly.

3. Pricing issue:
Base model + 1 module = $4000, but Base model + 2 modules = $10,000. How come?

4. Supply/Demand - the current situation with ASIC market is a joke.
I cannot find an ASIC mine anywhere, except Ebay Avalon for $30,000 bucks. (Which I'm not ready to pay)
Every single company offers pre-orders (with 1 year delay; BFL) or nothing.

My suggestion: Put a batch of production-ready mines on an auction at VMC. Not pre-orders. Actual and working mines.
And place a very small minimum ask of each mine, near production costs.
If you have real working mines traded at VMC at auction, we would *solve* the stupid Supply/demand issue in a short order.

If the auction fails (no bids), the mine temporarily goes to AMC department for in-house mining until next-week's auction. Repeat.
Auction selling will allow the company to determine mine's real, free-market price. AMC should also be allowed to bid.
Capitalism is about solving problems, including supply/demand problems.

As an investor, I don't care if money comes from mining slowly or as a one big sum selling the equipment.

If Avalon sold batch #1 mines for $1300, and a few months later I find an Avalon for $30,000 on ebay, then something is dead wrong here.

-Technologov

[lolstate]

When I google 'bitcoin mining machines', VMC is about rank 7. The summary beneath the URL says 'plant' instead if 'planet'. I can't see this typo on the VMC home page or meta data, so it could be an out of date Google cache.

[somestranger]

My suggestion: Put a batch of production-ready mines on an auction at VMC. Not pre-orders. Actual and working mines.
And place a very small minimum ask of each mine, near production costs.
If you have real working mines traded at VMC at auction, we would *solve* the stupid Supply/demand issue in a short order.

Great suggestions, especially the auction idea. Having pre-orders before they are available for auction might help pay for the NRE though so maybe an auction system could be implemented down the road, and the pre-orders get the benefit of lower pricing since their money was tied up for months.

[lolstate]

My suggestion: Put a batch of production-ready mines on an auction at VMC. Not pre-orders. Actual and working mines.
And place a very small minimum ask of each mine, near production costs.
If you have real working mines traded at VMC at auction, we would *solve* the stupid Supply/demand issue in a short order.

Great suggestions, especially the auction idea. Having pre-orders before they are available for auction might help pay for the NRE though so maybe an auction system could be implemented down the road, and the pre-orders get the benefit of lower pricing since their money was tied up for months.

I agree, pre-orders are an accepted convention in Bitcoinland now. The problem is manufacturers have delayed or failed to deliver. ActM will deliver shortly after accepting pre-orders, so I think this is a legitimate and sensible way to raise capital.

[Technologov]

I would prefer _not_ to follow BFL; not to offer any pre-orders at all. Auction mines, in batches, after they are ready, and ship immediately. This should be the company's unique differentiator. This will bring:
a) marketing (outflow of customers from competitors and into VMC)
b) customer satisfaction
c) ability to sell at bubble-like prices
Raise shareholder capital + possibly take business loans to pay for NRE and mines assembly.

(maybe even sell some stocks to eASIC shareholders)

[Vbs]

My suggestion: Put a batch of production-ready mines on an auction at VMC. Not pre-orders. Actual and working mines.
And place a very small minimum ask of each mine, near production costs.
If you have real working mines traded at VMC at auction, we would *solve* the stupid Supply/demand issue in a short order.

Great suggestions, especially the auction idea. Having pre-orders before they are available for auction might help pay for the NRE though so maybe an auction system could be implemented down the road, and the pre-orders get the benefit of lower pricing since their money was tied up for months.

I agree, pre-orders are an accepted convention in Bitcoinland now. The problem is manufacturers have delayed or failed to deliver. ActM will deliver shortly after accepting pre-orders, so I think this is a legitimate and sensible way to raise capital.

+1

Remember that this is not a "let's design a chip from 0 to 100%", but rather a "let's finish the design of a chip from ~85 to 100%". The margins of error are really different between both scenarios, that's why eAsic guarantees those quick time-frames and grew 980% in the last year alone.

[LordMeowMeow]

The fact they would put even put up a site of this quality, with only buzzwords and no substance to sell its products - that don't even exist yet - while asking people to invest tons of money speaks volumes. Frankly I find it is insulting to your investor base.

Why should the community raise you a million dollars to build a mining operation and spend thousands on mystery chips when you give out so little actual info about your key product and you don't even bother to proof read your company's profile on a poorly built site with prices that seem to be different depending on where you land?

At the very least these are strong symptoms of a company with very poor quality assurance and professionalism.

[Vbs]

I would prefer _not_ to follow BFL; not to offer any pre-orders at all. Auction mines after they are ready, and ship immediately. This should be the company's unique differentiator.
Raise shareholder capital + possibly take business loans to pay for NRE + assembly.

Unfortunately BFL is a very special case.

The main issue with them is that they are using 65nm chip, so the time-frame for the hardware to be profitable has a pretty close expiration date. This is another main benefit of ActM going directly 28nm -- it protects the buyers as much as possible from receiving something outdated.

What happens when BFL is shipping their current line and ActM is also shipping Fast-Hash machines using 28nm with 16GH/s@15W per chip? Not pretty for them...

[Vbs]

The fact they would put even put up a site of this quality, with only buzzwords and no substance to sell its products - that don't even exist yet - while asking people to invest tons of money speaks volumes. Frankly I find it is insulting to your investor base.

Why should the community raise you a million dollars to build a mining operation and spend thousands on mystery chips when you give out so little actual info about your key product and you don't even bother to proof read your company's profile on a poorly built site with prices that seem to be different depending on where you land?

At the very least these are strong symptoms of a company with very poor quality assurance and professionalism.

Should Ken spend money to hire a professional design firm to build the website then? I'm sure that perfect websites really speak volumes for how a company is able to deliver their products in time.

I do not feel insulted at the least, I know he has plenty on his hands right now.

There is a lot of info already out about the chips to whoever wants to read it and even more info about eAsic's process of design and manufacture.

[ffssixtynine]

The fact they would put even put up a site of this quality, with only buzzwords and no substance to sell its products - that don't even exist yet - while asking people to invest tons of money speaks volumes. Frankly I find it is insulting to your investor base.

Why should the community raise you a million dollars to build a mining operation and spend thousands on mystery chips when you give out so little actual info about your key product and you don't even bother to proof read your company's profile on a poorly built site with prices that seem to be different depending on where you land?

At the very least these are strong symptoms of a company with very poor quality assurance and professionalism.

Should Ken spend money to hire a professional design firm to build the website then? I'm sure that perfect websites really speak volumes for how a company is able to deliver their products in time.

I do not feel insulted at the least, I know he has plenty on his hands right now.

There is a lot of info already out about the chips to whoever wants to read it and even more info about eAsic's process of design and manufacture.

Yes he should quite frankly. It would cost little in the scheme of things and make the operation at least feel more professional.

I, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, have even offered to potentially arrange/manage it for some straight forward shares. It would still take a little of Ken's time as the information must be correct and kept up to date. That's not to say I would definitely do it as I've a ton of things to do right now, but someone would.

It's not that you need a big website (AM anyone?!), it's that what you have should be done properly when raising this amount of money.

[lolstate]

The fact they would put even put up a site of this quality, with only buzzwords and no substance to sell its products - that don't even exist yet - while asking people to invest tons of money speaks volumes. Frankly I find it is insulting to your investor base.

Why should the community raise you a million dollars to build a mining operation and spend thousands on mystery chips when you give out so little actual info about your key product and you don't even bother to proof read your company's profile on a poorly built site with prices that seem to be different depending on where you land?

At the very least these are strong symptoms of a company with very poor quality assurance and professionalism.

Ever hear of an MVP?

You should save your outrage for something deserving.

That being said, I think the ActM MVP has just about been proven, so a new, clean, modern looking design for the website might be a smart move at this point. It shouldn't (needn't) be expensive and should not take up any of Ken's time.