Butterfly Labs shipping 300 units a day

[k9quaint]

Not even public companies do that, so why crow about it?

Yes they do. Especially commodities producers. Here is an example:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1362705/000119312513222640/d514192d10q.htm

Read any the 10-Q of most companies and you will see sales (they have to ship to be recognized as revenue) at least broken out by volume in dollars. They would be laughed out of the stock exchange if they reported they had shipped 8 day's worth of orders this quarter!! Then the SEC would sanction their auditors for allowing such nonsense.

Now for a good question:  given the evidence above, if you had 3 BTC to spend, would you place a new order for a BFL Jalapeño able to run at 7GH/s and 65W, or order 3 Asicminer Erupters for immediate delivery running at 1GH/s @ 12W?

Neither would be profitable. The Jalapeno is actually closer to break even, but carries a lot more risk given it's delivery date =  (X * two weeks), where X is is a random positive integer.  

[ScaryHash]

BFL threads that start with  "Well, they shipped my unit and asked me to review it and post pictures, so I said ok...." do not count as shipping.

They are just bribes !

Yes, they've started shipping Jalepenos, which contain 2 chips each, and are still on October 2012 orders...

I mean, I could see ordering an 2014 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow ahead of time, and then waiting for it for a year. But BFL isn't Rolls Royce.

You're not gonna be able to sell a BFL unit 20 years for now for more money than what you paid for it. Hah !

[dominicus]

Not even public companies do that, so why crow about it?

Yes they do. Especially commodities producers. Here is an example:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1362705/000119312513222640/d514192d10q.htm

Read any the 10-Q of most companies and you will see sales (they have to ship to be recognized as revenue) at least broken out by volume in dollars. They would be laughed out of the stock exchange if they reported they had shipped 8 day's worth of orders this quarter!! Then the SEC would sanction their auditors for allowing such nonsense.

Now for a good question:  given the evidence above, if you had 3 BTC to spend, would you place a new order for a BFL Jalapeño able to run at 7GH/s and 65W, or order 3 Asicminer Erupters for immediate delivery running at 1GH/s @ 12W?

Neither would be profitable. The Jalapeno is actually closer to break even, but carries a lot more risk given it's delivery date =  (X * two weeks), where X is is a random positive integer.  

Your example failed to show a table of orders received broken down by calendar day and by specific commodity...which is what I said I've never seen any company report...much less a private company.

[Eric in TX]

Its be pretty easy to get an idea of how much stuff BFL is shipping (for a local person).  Just stand outside their office all day and observe how much stuff the USPS and UPS guy hauls off.  It could be fun.  Pretend it is a stakeout.

[dwdoc]

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

If everyone had just ordered Jalepenos the entire BTC net would have been better off, greed for bigger and bigger rigs will kill the ROI for everyone. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA. It started a trend which is already causing problems. They should have simply sold 10 x the number of 6GH/s rigs. for a much better balanced net, and they could have charged more per GH/s.

Many humans suffer from greed, ordering big rigs straight up is an obvious example of this, like dogs competing for a food bowl.

You are assuming Avalon had a crystal ball and knew their miner would come out first. At the time they announced they were trying to balance (compete) with BFL. I guess according to you Avalon and BFL and ASIcminer should have all agreed to only increases hashrate 10fold so that someone else could come along (Bitfury, KNC, etc.) and produce a higher hashrate? What you call greed I call risk/reward. If everyone is guaranteed a ROI there is no risk.

[solitude]

BFL threads that start with  "Well, they shipped my unit

Actually the shills just say that they received their unit only.  Nobody says BFL asked them to post about them receiving it, when they actually did.

YOu're delusional if you think a company that openly called its customers "whiners and complainers" and denies refunds won't tuck tail and run when shit hits the fan

And it's only a matter of time until Paypal closes their account and BFL leaves the country

[erk]

You are assuming Avalon had a crystal ball and knew their miner would come out first. At the time they announced they were trying to balance (compete) with BFL. I guess according to you Avalon and BFL and ASIcminer should have all agreed to only increases hashrate 10fold so that someone else could come along (Bitfury, KNC, etc.) and produce a higher hashrate? What you call greed I call risk/reward. If everyone is guaranteed a ROI there is no risk.

At no point did Avalon's product look competitive with BFL, remember the original BFL pricing was way less than it became in April after the price hike, eg. 1,500GH/s MiniRig was only $30k. Therefore the crystal ball aspect was largely irrelevant. As Avalon only took orders for a finite batch size, they simply had to wait until the batch was sold, and start the ball rolling. When something is scarce it sells fast, the units could have been a lot less powerful and they would have all sold. The USB Block Erupter, ASICminer is a classic example of not having to sell high MH/s items, the have sold thousands of the things. People are still queuing up to buy them, and they are incredibly expensive compared to just about every ASIC offering out there.

[Paladin69]

And nothing shipped today either.  Probably didn't Monday or Tuesday.  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/242-wednesday-july-17-2013-shipping-update.html#comments

I think BFL might be in trouble money wise.  It is as if they are purposefully not ordering the components needed to finish the job.  Customers are really climbing the walls.  I don't blame them.

[erk]

And nothing shipped today either.  Probably didn't Monday or Tuesday.  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/242-wednesday-july-17-2013-shipping-update.html#comments

I think BFL might be in trouble money wise.  It is as if they are purposefully not ordering the components needed to finish the job.  Customers are really climbing the walls.  I don't blame them.

It says 10 days worth of Jalapenos shipped, just no other models.

[k9quaint]

Your example failed to show a table of orders received broken down by calendar day and by specific commodity...which is what I said I've never seen any company report...much less a private company.

Perhaps you are not used to reading 10-Qs.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1362705/000119312513222640/d514192d10q.htm

Top of page 21, you see the following products broken out:
 "Natural gas production (MMcf)",  "Oil and liquids production (MBbl)", "Average daily production (Mcfe/d)"

The example shows units per time. It was broken down by commodity, NGL liquids, oil, mmcf of NG,
MMcf is a million cubic feet (a unit of volume to measure natural gas).
MBbl is thousands of barrels of oil.
Mcfe is thousand cubic feet equivalent and Mcfe/d is per day.
You can see per quarter and variance between current and previous years.

It also gives sales prices, hedges, and cost of producing the units.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Its be pretty easy to get an idea of how much stuff BFL is shipping (for a local person).  Just stand outside their office all day and observe how much stuff the USPS and UPS guy hauls off.  It could be fun.  Pretend it is a stakeout.

This just in from a subcontractor of Gage PI Inc.:



35 employees in the parking lot, but no Goobacks or Sonny K. to be found.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I just figure it out! According to this chart http://blockchain.info/charts/miners-operating-profit-margin?timespan=1year&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=, the profit margin moves upward as more and more miners come online.

I'm such an idiot for not getting into mining.

[geofflosophy]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

[k9quaint]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

They have, the response from the community was "build something first". I don't think many folks want to take another ride on the BFL delivery van.

[Bitcoinorama]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

Don't people typically clone things that work?!?

[erk]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

There are project threads on this forum for building miners based on BFL chips.
BFL provided a full working open source design, including firmware!


Here is one project doing their own board:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258622.0

[RoadStress]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

There are project threads on this forum for building miners based on BFL chips.
BFL provided a full working open source design, including firmware!

Yeah but people who are buying are very few Grats to retard Josh Zerlan aka Inaba's great PR moves!

[PuertoLibre]

You are assuming Avalon had a crystal ball and knew their miner would come out first. At the time they announced they were trying to balance (compete) with BFL. I guess according to you Avalon and BFL and ASIcminer should have all agreed to only increases hashrate 10fold so that someone else could come along (Bitfury, KNC, etc.) and produce a higher hashrate? What you call greed I call risk/reward. If everyone is guaranteed a ROI there is no risk.

At no point did Avalon's product look competitive with BFL, remember the original BFL pricing was way less than it became in April after the price hike, eg. 1,500GH/s MiniRig was only $30k. Therefore the crystal ball aspect was largely irrelevant. As Avalon only took orders for a finite batch size, they simply had to wait until the batch was sold, and start the ball rolling. When something is scarce it sells fast, the units could have been a lot less powerful and they would have all sold. The USB Block Erupter, ASICminer is a classic example of not having to sell high MH/s items, the have sold thousands of the things. People are still queuing up to buy them, and they are incredibly expensive compared to just about every ASIC offering out there.

What total BullShit.

Avalon was competitive. Out of bASIC and BFL, Avalon had the highest hashrate and actually delivered.

BFL did, after close to a year, bASIC never did.

-------------------

In the end, BFL's lower product line consumed more than 5 to 10 times the amount of electricity that it was originally estimated. This was originally one of the selling points.

--Advantage gone, Poof.

[PuertoLibre]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

There are project threads on this forum for building miners based on BFL chips.
BFL provided a full working open source design, including firmware!

Uh, no!

They opened their sales channel for bulk chips at first. From what I recall reading they had originally no intention of releasing their firmware. Probably because they were charging for "upgrades" to give higher performing firmware it seems.

Their sales on this forum was flat to non-existent from what I can remember.

When everyone called them out on not providing enough info on their reference design, they eventually provided the firmware. I distantly recall that the open source folks were seemingly expected to provide and program their own firmware. Then everyone started buying after A) They lowered their price by 25% and then (through their pre-order customers) flooded the market with yet another 25% discount on top of that.

They then made a change to their original sales pitch:

In exchange for the 50% discount (with coupons) they wouldn't be sorting the chips by grades A through D (mixed lots)...you get what you get.

Then they upped the specs on what the chips were guaranteed to do. (I don't recall the specs on power consumption and GH/s)

----------------------

Now ask yourself, why is actual history completely different than what "erk" presents?

Possibly because he works for BFL?

[dwdoc]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

There are project threads on this forum for building miners based on BFL chips.
BFL provided a full working open source design, including firmware!


Here is one project doing their own board:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258622.0

I think that one is the farthest along but here's another:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3831-board-bfl-chips-group-buy-chips.html