Butterfly Labs shipping 300 units a day

[geofflosophy]

Hey All,

Just came across this article on CoinDesk, figured I'd share it: http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

They claim to be shipping 300 units a day; the fact that very very few of you have been receiving yours makes that possibility a little scary... They're shipping orders in the order in which they were received, but even if they were only shipping 5 GH/s units, that's 1.5 TH/s a day being added to the network; 45 TH/s a month. Scary stuff!

[1715318129]

1715318129

[1715318129]

1715318129

[1715318129]

1715318129

[1715318129]

1715318129

[1715318129]

1715318129

[1715318129]

1715318129

[maxl]

At the moment they are shipping nearly norhing a day.
You can see in the forum that only a few people have received something from BFL.

And the 300 units a day is their maximum mass production.

[icyak]

Hey All,

Just came across this article on CoinDesk, figured I'd share it: http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

They claim to be shipping 300 units a day; the fact that very very few of you have been receiving yours makes that possibility a little scary... They're shipping orders in the order in which they were received, but even if they were only shipping 5 GH/s units, that's 1.5 TH/s a day being added to the network; 45 TH/s a month. Scary stuff!

you still didnt count all other ASIC devices and USB miners, so we should see more than 100TH (just guess no numbers or math) added each month... This is not going to happen this month probably
and also you were just counting with 5GH/s units, they can ship 300 60GH/s units each day (18TH/day)*30=540TH/s each month :D

[HellDiverUK]

You can see in the forum that only a few people have received something from BFL.

To be fair, not everyone who ordered from BFL is going to be on this forum, or those who are may not be inclined to come on here and post that they received their unit.

[joeventura]

[kendog77]

Hey All,

Just came across this article on CoinDesk, figured I'd share it: http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

They claim to be shipping 300 units a day; the fact that very very few of you have been receiving yours makes that possibility a little scary... They're shipping orders in the order in which they were received, but even if they were only shipping 5 GH/s units, that's 1.5 TH/s a day being added to the network; 45 TH/s a month. Scary stuff!

BFL has constantly lied about their delivery dates, so I see no reason why they wouldn't also lie about how many units they are shipping per day in order to get more new orders.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[GigaWave]

Complete BS, they MAY have shipped 300 one day, but they are definitely not shipping that much every day. They are still on first day Single's. All you have to do is look at BFL_Jody Blog post on BFLs forum and she posts when they ship.

[jmaccoin]

Hey All,

Just came across this article on CoinDesk, figured I'd share it: http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

They claim to be shipping 300 units a day; the fact that very very few of you have been receiving yours makes that possibility a little scary... They're shipping orders in the order in which they were received, but even if they were only shipping 5 GH/s units, that's 1.5 TH/s a day being added to the network; 45 TH/s a month. Scary stuff!

BFL has constantly lied about their delivery dates, so I see no reason why they wouldn't also lie about how many units they are shipping per day in order to get more new orders.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I think we are all aware that a fool can not be fooled a second time.

[RoadStress]

http://media.coindesk.com/2013/07/bfljalapenoassemble1.png vs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQY3Y8shBY8 All i can say is lol!

And yes Inaba is a tard!

[davecoin]

wth?

"We’re in Zerlan, the COO’s office, talking about mining. In the corner behind his chair I see a modified Mini Rig SC top end unit with the chassis split open.  It’s emanating some kind of red glow that gives the impression that it is some sort of futuristic mining prototype. I don’t even ask what its for, expecting that information on a machine like that wouldn’t be shared with this writer. I was also afraid that my mind might be bitcoin blown."

[geofflosophy]

Yea I was just being super conservative based on this one article, once you throw in other ASICs and larger orders it becomes even scarier.

Hey All,

Just came across this article on CoinDesk, figured I'd share it: http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

They claim to be shipping 300 units a day; the fact that very very few of you have been receiving yours makes that possibility a little scary... They're shipping orders in the order in which they were received, but even if they were only shipping 5 GH/s units, that's 1.5 TH/s a day being added to the network; 45 TH/s a month. Scary stuff!

you still didnt count all other ASIC devices and USB miners, so we should see more than 100TH (just guess no numbers or math) added each month... This is not going to happen this month probably
and also you were just counting with 5GH/s units, they can ship 300 60GH/s units each day (18TH/day)*30=540TH/s each month :D

[tempestb]

If that dude has a Minirig in his office, it's probably hot as hell in there. 

[NR3000]

Every time when you buy any mining device, you will increase network difficulty. Then you buy more devices and then more again. You will never get you money back;] all you money gone in mining rig factories;] that's why they do not mining for they selfs;] No point have millions bitcoins if you cant sell for real money. And when they have many bitcoins, start selling mining rigs and bitcoins together. People start buying bitcoins for more mining rigs;] Sometimes I think friedcat has created bitcoins;D or asic factory;] they have millions real money, and what we have?;] just keep buying more and more devices.. sorry for me english, I hope you can understand what I mean;]

[Bogart]

Maybe they're counting each ASIC chip as a "unit", or maybe each pound of shipping weight counts as a "unit".   

Even so, 300 a day sounds high.

[nipsy]

I was order number 10810 ordered on October 11, 2012 and just received my Jalapeno today.  So they're definitely making progress on at least one front.  It's been running for the last few hours in cgminer and averaging around 5.2Gh/s.  Hopefully they'll start getting some of those bigger device orders out the door for folks soon.

[erk]

I was order number 10810 ordered on October 11, 2012 and just received my Jalapeno today.  So they're definitely making progress on at least one front.  It's been running for the last few hours in cgminer and averaging around 5.2Gh/s.  Hopefully they'll start getting some of those bigger device orders out the door for folks soon.

Well it's good to see they are catching up on at least one of the devices, though they have shipped over a hundred Singles, and many MiniRigs, they are still only working on orders from June 23rd 2012, as there were so many orders on the first few days.

[BBQKorv]

Maybe they're counting each ASIC chip as a "unit", or maybe each pound of shipping weight counts as a "unit".   

Even so, 300 a day sounds high.

300 chips a day is more realistic than 300 devices. Poor Josh is never going to be out of lies (but soon he's out of money).

[Monkey1]

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

[erk]

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

If everyone had just ordered Jalepenos the entire BTC net would have been better off, greed for bigger and bigger rigs will kill the ROI for everyone. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA. It started a trend which is already causing problems. They should have simply sold 10 x the number of 6GH/s rigs. for a much better balanced net, and they could have charged more per GH/s.

Many humans suffer from greed, ordering big rigs straight up is an obvious example of this, like dogs competing for a food bowl.

[k9quaint]

Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA.

From a business point of view, Avalon selling $10 million + worth of chips isn't a bad thing. All they have to do is package those suckers up and ship em. Easy profit.

[geofflosophy]

His point is that they could have made more money, both by charging more per GH and by having more customers as a result of a slower increase in difficulty scaring less people off. I'm not sure I totally agree with this point, would it even occur to many of the people who ended up buying 60 GH rigs to buy 10 smaller ones had they not had the option? With that said, there is clearly a good business in selling smaller units to users while they are profitable then selling progressively larger units to the same customers as difficulty climbs.

Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA.

From a business point of view, Avalon selling $10 million + worth of chips isn't a bad thing. All they have to do is package those suckers up and ship em. Easy profit.

[k9quaint]

His point is that they could have made more money, both by charging more per GH and by having more customers as a result of a slower increase in difficulty scaring less people off. I'm not sure I totally agree with this point, would it even occur to many of the people who ended up buying 60 GH rigs to buy 10 smaller ones had they not had the option? With that said, there is clearly a good business in selling smaller units to users while they are profitable then selling progressively larger units to the same customers as difficulty climbs.

Granted, their pricing has not been optimal. But, the rise in difficulty is not under Avalon's control. Avalon first priced their units as if BFL was going to deliver in "Two Weeks(TM)" and that turned out to be too cheap given BFL's delays. They then priced their 3rd batch a lot higher and now people are asking for refunds because they fear it won't mine enough BTC to recoup it's cost. This fear is driven by Avalon's delays, BFL & ASICMiner delivering, and Bitfury & KNCMiner making good progress.

Avalon needed to sell their first batch of chips, and that batch had a minimum size. I don't think it really matters if they put 20 chips in a box or 200 chips in a box other than it is easier to ship 300 boxes than it is to ship 3000. Given they were trying to sell a fixed number of chips, the demand exceeded the supply so people would buy 1 66GH/s or 11 6GH/s devices.

Also, it has since become clear that Avalon's core competency is in designing and producing chips, not devices.

[YipYip]

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

If everyone had just ordered Jalepenos the entire BTC net would have been better off, greed for bigger and bigger rigs will kill the ROI for everyone. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA. It started a trend which is already causing problems. They should have simply sold 10 x the number of 6GH/s rigs. for a much better balanced net, and they could have charged more per GH/s.

Many humans suffer from greed, ordering big rigs straight up is an obvious example of this, like dogs competing for a food bowl.

Everything you say is a fucking lie !!!

[erk]

His point is that they could have made more money, both by charging more per GH and by having more customers as a result of a slower increase in difficulty scaring less people off. I'm not sure I totally agree with this point, would it even occur to many of the people who ended up buying 60 GH rigs to buy 10 smaller ones had they not had the option? With that said, there is clearly a good business in selling smaller units to users while they are profitable then selling progressively larger units to the same customers as difficulty climbs.

Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA.

From a business point of view, Avalon selling $10 million + worth of chips isn't a bad thing. All they have to do is package those suckers up and ship em. Easy profit.

They wouldn't have needed to buy 10 smaller Avalon could have just released TH/s at a slower daily rate and charged way more for it, so ther would have been less TH/ s competition for the miners. Everyone wins.

[glendall]

It's not so much 'fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me'.

This is more apt : 'fool me once, shame on you, fool me 308 times, I'm a moron for taking anything this company says as remotely possibly accurate.'

[YipYip]

His point is that they could have made more money, both by charging more per GH and by having more customers as a result of a slower increase in difficulty scaring less people off. I'm not sure I totally agree with this point, would it even occur to many of the people who ended up buying 60 GH rigs to buy 10 smaller ones had they not had the option? With that said, there is clearly a good business in selling smaller units to users while they are profitable then selling progressively larger units to the same customers as difficulty climbs.

Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA.

From a business point of view, Avalon selling $10 million + worth of chips isn't a bad thing. All they have to do is package those suckers up and ship em. Easy profit.

They wouldn't have needed to buy 10 smaller Avalon could have just released TH/s at a slower daily rate and charged way more for it, so ther would have been less TH/ s competition for the miners. Everyone wins.

blah blah blah ...sockpuppet sockpuppet sockpuppet....


You sound like the IRAQ Information minister....

"invasion...there is no invasion"

"deliverys ...there are hundreds and thousands and all of these people do not deserve to have our products in the first place as they are greedy dogs !" 

You are a fucking joke !

[k9quaint]

His point is that they could have made more money, both by charging more per GH and by having more customers as a result of a slower increase in difficulty scaring less people off. I'm not sure I totally agree with this point, would it even occur to many of the people who ended up buying 60 GH rigs to buy 10 smaller ones had they not had the option? With that said, there is clearly a good business in selling smaller units to users while they are profitable then selling progressively larger units to the same customers as difficulty climbs.

Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA.

From a business point of view, Avalon selling $10 million + worth of chips isn't a bad thing. All they have to do is package those suckers up and ship em. Easy profit.

They wouldn't have needed to buy 10 smaller Avalon could have just released TH/s at a slower daily rate and charged way more for it, so ther would have been less TH/ s competition for the miners. Everyone wins.

Except the people who get their units later rather than sooner. Those people do not win, they pay the same price for hashing at higher difficulty.

You were not around back in January 2013, but Avalon was racing against a phantom horse named "BFL in Two Weeks". It wasn't until batch 3 that Avalon realized that BFL was not going to ship in two weeks, and then they raised the price of their units.

[DeathAndTaxes]

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

If everyone had just ordered Jalepenos the entire BTC net would have been better off, greed for bigger and bigger rigs will kill the ROI for everyone. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA. It started a trend which is already causing problems. They should have simply sold 10 x the number of 6GH/s rigs. for a much better balanced net, and they could have charged more per GH/s.

Many humans suffer from greed, ordering big rigs straight up is an obvious example of this, like dogs competing for a food bowl.

Nonsense.  If 6GH/s rig would be profitable then buying 10x 6GH/s rig would be equally profitable or renting a small amount of commercial space and buying 1000x 6GH/s rigs.  CPU and GPU rigs are constrained by the cludginess of trying to scale out.  Rigs which communicate with a host over USB lack any such constraint.

Either way the network is going to grow to where it is barely break even for new hardware (including electrical cost) from there it is only going to grow if/when either the exchange rate rises or more efficient devices are produced.

[erk]

Nonsense.  If 6GH/s rig would be profitable then buying 10x 6GH/s rig would be equally profitable or renting a small amount of commercial space and buying 1000x 6GH/s rigs.  CPU and GPU rigs are constrained by the cludginess of trying to scale out.  Rigs which communicate with a host over USB lack any such constraint.

Either way the network is going to grow to where it is barely break even for new hardware (including electrical cost) from there it is only going to grow if/when either the exchange rate rises or more efficient devices are produced.

If Avalon charged $1,000 for a 6GH/s unit, you wouldn't see 1,000 of them going out in one hit would you.

You seem to be missing the point. In order to keep the BTC network balanced and growing at a sustainable rate, you don't release hardware that is orders of magnitude higher hash rate than what's currently available.

There is nothing stopping BFL or Avalon building a 10TH/s unit right now that requires massive 3 phase power, but there is no need.

[k9quaint]

Nonsense.  If 6GH/s rig would be profitable then buying 10x 6GH/s rig would be equally profitable or renting a small amount of commercial space and buying 1000x 6GH/s rigs.  CPU and GPU rigs are constrained by the cludginess of trying to scale out.  Rigs which communicate with a host over USB lack any such constraint.

Either way the network is going to grow to where it is barely break even for new hardware (including electrical cost) from there it is only going to grow if/when either the exchange rate rises or more efficient devices are produced.

If Avalon charged $1,000 for a 6GH/s unit, you wouldn't see 1,000 of them going out in one hit would you.

You seem to be missing the point. In order to keep the BTC network balanced and growing at a sustainable rate, you don't release hardware that is orders of magnitude higher hash rate than what's currently available.

There is nothing stopping BFL or Avalon building a 10TH/s unit right now that requires massive 3 phase power, but there is no need.

You were not around back in January 2013, but Avalon was racing against a phantom horse named "BFL in Two Weeks". It wasn't until batch 3 that Avalon realized that BFL was not going to ship in two weeks, and then they raised the price of their units.

[RoadStress]

Nonsense.  If 6GH/s rig would be profitable then buying 10x 6GH/s rig would be equally profitable or renting a small amount of commercial space and buying 1000x 6GH/s rigs.  CPU and GPU rigs are constrained by the cludginess of trying to scale out.  Rigs which communicate with a host over USB lack any such constraint.

Either way the network is going to grow to where it is barely break even for new hardware (including electrical cost) from there it is only going to grow if/when either the exchange rate rises or more efficient devices are produced.

If Avalon charged $1,000 for a 6GH/s unit, you wouldn't see 1,000 of them going out in one hit would you.

You seem to be missing the point. In order to keep the BTC network balanced and growing at a sustainable rate, you don't release hardware that is orders of magnitude higher hash rate than what's currently available.

There is nothing stopping BFL or Avalon building a 10TH/s unit right now that requires massive 3 phase power, but there is no need.

It's a free market. If Avalon charged $1,000 for a 6GH/s unit what's stopping another company to offer a better deal? (and so on)

[dwdoc]

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

If everyone had just ordered Jalepenos the entire BTC net would have been better off, greed for bigger and bigger rigs will kill the ROI for everyone. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA. It started a trend which is already causing problems. They should have simply sold 10 x the number of 6GH/s rigs. for a much better balanced net, and they could have charged more per GH/s.

Many humans suffer from greed, ordering big rigs straight up is an obvious example of this, like dogs competing for a food bowl.

So people buying FPGAs were not greedy compared to people with GPUs, and people with Jalapenos were not greedy compared to people with FPGAs, but people buying Avalons and Singles are greedy compared to people with Jalapenos?? Hmm let me guess- you bought a Jalapeno...

[joeventura]

Yes 300 units a day indeed.

Here is today's shipping update, copied from BFL at 7pm on 8/17



Most Jalapenos through Oct. 27 have been shipped.

No Little Singles

No Singles

No MiniRigs

[dominicus]

Maybe they're counting each ASIC chip as a "unit", or maybe each pound of shipping weight counts as a "unit".   

Even so, 300 a day sounds high.

It's tough to estimate how many orders BFL is shipping per day.  That being said, just as vocal as forum in bitcointalk is, so is the forum at BFL, sometimes worse.

BFL is reporting the pay-dates they've already shipped by models several times/week.  Today they reported shipping 10-calendar-days worth of Jalapeno orders in a single shipping day.  Not one comment from any customer alleging they were passed up or that BFL was misrepresenting (except, of course, the ones that didn't order Jalapenos, who are now reconsidering their model choice).
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/242-wednesday-july-17-2013-shipping-update.html

Should they continue to ramp up delivery speed in this fashion, quite a few folks are gonna be angry they didn't take the risk with a few orders.
I mean, I'm not a BFL lover or hater.  I have money trapped for the better part of this year.  But had I ordered when the Jalapenos were $120 each, and later asked for a refund out of "spite" for their sloooow ship start, I would be kicking myself now.

You're not supposed to be buying ASIC's with money you're going to crawl up the walls later for.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I don’t even ask what its for, expecting that information on a machine like that wouldn’t be shared with this writer. I was also afraid that my mind might be bitcoin blown.

I guess the author didn't see the video where Josh was trippin' over himself while trying to explain the blockchain.

Zerlan is flying a small remote controlled helicopter around his office, shooting projectiles from the airborne machine into a wall.

It's a damn  shame I had to weed through the entire article to finally come across some substance.

Too bad the followin' image of Zefram flyin' the Huey wasn't included in the article.

[dwdoc]

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

[k9quaint]

BFL is reporting the pay-dates they've already shipped by models several times/week.  Today they reported shipping 10-calendar-days worth of Jalapeno orders in a single shipping day.  

The problem with reporting shipping by "day's worth of orders" is we don't know how many units were paid for on that day. Could be 2. Could be 20. Could be 200. It gives us very little insight as to the rate at which BFL is able to ship units out. For whatever reason, BFL feels it should not reveal how many actual units are leaving the building each day. They claim they can do 300 units a day, but can't seem to make any progress past the first day of orders after 10 days of working on singles and mini-rigs. So did they build and ship 3000 singles in 10 days? Did BFL just add 150 TH/s to the hash rate in the last 10 days? Who knows?

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

Shipping a couple of sample chips is very different than shipping a couple of thousand chips. It is very possible that BFL is running low on chips and the bulk of their customers (as measured by hash rate) will have to wait until they receive the next order (100 days lead time).

[Phinnaeus Gage]

300 Units a day.
9,000 Units a month.
60,000 Units ordered.
~7 Months from July 1 before all receive their units.

They share the building with a general contractor company and are currently in talks about possibly taking over and occupying the entire building. It doesn’t take much to realize that this company is outgrowing its office.

If they did have the whole building, what exactly are they plannin' on buildin' as their third hoorah?

Do you really think Huber is plannin' to vacate his pride-and-joy facility. I'm sure this revelation will come to a shock to the current employees of A.L. Huber.

[erk]

So people buying FPGAs were not greedy compared to people with GPUs, and people with Jalapenos were not greedy compared to people with FPGAs, but people buying Avalons and Singles are greedy compared to people with Jalapenos?? Hmm let me guess- you bought a Jalapeno...

Are you trying to make a point with the string of questions, or just having a pointless rant?  
The hash rate increase from GPU to FPGA was modest 600MH/s ->800MH/s, what it enabled you to do was use several FPGA chips for similar running cost due to the improved power consumption. The jump from FPGA to Jalapeno was significant 800MH/s->5,000MH/s, but not the order magnitude like the jump from FPGA to Avalon batch #1 was, 800MH/s -> 60,000MH/s

[dominicus]

BFL is reporting the pay-dates they've already shipped by models several times/week.  Today they reported shipping 10-calendar-days worth of Jalapeno orders in a single shipping day.  

The problem with reporting shipping by "day's worth of orders" is we don't know how many units were paid for on that day. Could be 2. Could be 20. Could be 200. It gives us very little insight as to the rate at which BFL is able to ship units out. For whatever reason, BFL feels it should not reveal how many actual units are leaving the building each day. They claim they can do 300 units a day, but can't seem to make any progress past the first day of orders after 10 days of working on singles and mini-rigs. So did they build and ship 3000 singles in 10 days? Did BFL just add 150 TH/s to the hash rate in the last 10 days? Who knows?

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

Shipping a couple of sample chips is very different than shipping a couple of thousand chips. It is very possible that BFL is running low on chips and the bulk of their customers (as measured by hash rate) will have to wait until they receive the next order (100 days lead time).

Well, the evidence is they are accelerating the amount of "days-worth" each shipping day, but there's still limited info available.  Is it because order volumes dropped, or increase production rate, or both?  BFL will not release data on amount of orders for each calendar day.  Not even public companies do that, so why crow about it?  To get some indication about the specific ordering period sales rate, one could look at the data BFL customers volunteered at http://bfl.ptz.ro/ :
Period 10/7/12 to 10/16/12: 52 Jalapeno orders registered
Period 10/17-10/27: 29 Jalapenos orders registered
Period 10/28-11/6: 13 Jally's orders registered

Whatever math you do will have tons of fuzziness.  More datapoints of shipping reports may be needed, but signs point to BFL accelerating their catch-up efforts on Jally sales.

Now for a good question:  given the evidence above, if you had 3 BTC to spend, would you place a new order for a BFL Jalapeño able to run at 7GH/s and 65W, or order 3 Asicminer Erupters for immediate delivery running at 1GH/s @ 12W?

[k9quaint]

Not even public companies do that, so why crow about it?

Yes they do. Especially commodities producers. Here is an example:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1362705/000119312513222640/d514192d10q.htm

Read any the 10-Q of most companies and you will see sales (they have to ship to be recognized as revenue) at least broken out by volume in dollars. They would be laughed out of the stock exchange if they reported they had shipped 8 day's worth of orders this quarter!! Then the SEC would sanction their auditors for allowing such nonsense.

Now for a good question:  given the evidence above, if you had 3 BTC to spend, would you place a new order for a BFL Jalapeño able to run at 7GH/s and 65W, or order 3 Asicminer Erupters for immediate delivery running at 1GH/s @ 12W?

Neither would be profitable. The Jalapeno is actually closer to break even, but carries a lot more risk given it's delivery date =  (X * two weeks), where X is is a random positive integer.  

[ScaryHash]

BFL threads that start with  "Well, they shipped my unit and asked me to review it and post pictures, so I said ok...." do not count as shipping.

They are just bribes !

Yes, they've started shipping Jalepenos, which contain 2 chips each, and are still on October 2012 orders...

I mean, I could see ordering an 2014 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow ahead of time, and then waiting for it for a year. But BFL isn't Rolls Royce.

You're not gonna be able to sell a BFL unit 20 years for now for more money than what you paid for it. Hah !

[dominicus]

Not even public companies do that, so why crow about it?

Yes they do. Especially commodities producers. Here is an example:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1362705/000119312513222640/d514192d10q.htm

Read any the 10-Q of most companies and you will see sales (they have to ship to be recognized as revenue) at least broken out by volume in dollars. They would be laughed out of the stock exchange if they reported they had shipped 8 day's worth of orders this quarter!! Then the SEC would sanction their auditors for allowing such nonsense.

Now for a good question:  given the evidence above, if you had 3 BTC to spend, would you place a new order for a BFL Jalapeño able to run at 7GH/s and 65W, or order 3 Asicminer Erupters for immediate delivery running at 1GH/s @ 12W?

Neither would be profitable. The Jalapeno is actually closer to break even, but carries a lot more risk given it's delivery date =  (X * two weeks), where X is is a random positive integer.  

Your example failed to show a table of orders received broken down by calendar day and by specific commodity...which is what I said I've never seen any company report...much less a private company.

[Eric in TX]

Its be pretty easy to get an idea of how much stuff BFL is shipping (for a local person).  Just stand outside their office all day and observe how much stuff the USPS and UPS guy hauls off.  It could be fun.  Pretend it is a stakeout.

[dwdoc]

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

If everyone had just ordered Jalepenos the entire BTC net would have been better off, greed for bigger and bigger rigs will kill the ROI for everyone. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA. It started a trend which is already causing problems. They should have simply sold 10 x the number of 6GH/s rigs. for a much better balanced net, and they could have charged more per GH/s.

Many humans suffer from greed, ordering big rigs straight up is an obvious example of this, like dogs competing for a food bowl.

You are assuming Avalon had a crystal ball and knew their miner would come out first. At the time they announced they were trying to balance (compete) with BFL. I guess according to you Avalon and BFL and ASIcminer should have all agreed to only increases hashrate 10fold so that someone else could come along (Bitfury, KNC, etc.) and produce a higher hashrate? What you call greed I call risk/reward. If everyone is guaranteed a ROI there is no risk.

[solitude]

BFL threads that start with  "Well, they shipped my unit

Actually the shills just say that they received their unit only.  Nobody says BFL asked them to post about them receiving it, when they actually did.

YOu're delusional if you think a company that openly called its customers "whiners and complainers" and denies refunds won't tuck tail and run when shit hits the fan

And it's only a matter of time until Paypal closes their account and BFL leaves the country

[erk]

You are assuming Avalon had a crystal ball and knew their miner would come out first. At the time they announced they were trying to balance (compete) with BFL. I guess according to you Avalon and BFL and ASIcminer should have all agreed to only increases hashrate 10fold so that someone else could come along (Bitfury, KNC, etc.) and produce a higher hashrate? What you call greed I call risk/reward. If everyone is guaranteed a ROI there is no risk.

At no point did Avalon's product look competitive with BFL, remember the original BFL pricing was way less than it became in April after the price hike, eg. 1,500GH/s MiniRig was only $30k. Therefore the crystal ball aspect was largely irrelevant. As Avalon only took orders for a finite batch size, they simply had to wait until the batch was sold, and start the ball rolling. When something is scarce it sells fast, the units could have been a lot less powerful and they would have all sold. The USB Block Erupter, ASICminer is a classic example of not having to sell high MH/s items, the have sold thousands of the things. People are still queuing up to buy them, and they are incredibly expensive compared to just about every ASIC offering out there.

[Paladin69]

And nothing shipped today either.  Probably didn't Monday or Tuesday.  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/242-wednesday-july-17-2013-shipping-update.html#comments

I think BFL might be in trouble money wise.  It is as if they are purposefully not ordering the components needed to finish the job.  Customers are really climbing the walls.  I don't blame them.

[erk]

And nothing shipped today either.  Probably didn't Monday or Tuesday.  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/242-wednesday-july-17-2013-shipping-update.html#comments

I think BFL might be in trouble money wise.  It is as if they are purposefully not ordering the components needed to finish the job.  Customers are really climbing the walls.  I don't blame them.

It says 10 days worth of Jalapenos shipped, just no other models.

[k9quaint]

Your example failed to show a table of orders received broken down by calendar day and by specific commodity...which is what I said I've never seen any company report...much less a private company.

Perhaps you are not used to reading 10-Qs.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1362705/000119312513222640/d514192d10q.htm

Top of page 21, you see the following products broken out:
 "Natural gas production (MMcf)",  "Oil and liquids production (MBbl)", "Average daily production (Mcfe/d)"

The example shows units per time. It was broken down by commodity, NGL liquids, oil, mmcf of NG,
MMcf is a million cubic feet (a unit of volume to measure natural gas).
MBbl is thousands of barrels of oil.
Mcfe is thousand cubic feet equivalent and Mcfe/d is per day.
You can see per quarter and variance between current and previous years.

It also gives sales prices, hedges, and cost of producing the units.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Its be pretty easy to get an idea of how much stuff BFL is shipping (for a local person).  Just stand outside their office all day and observe how much stuff the USPS and UPS guy hauls off.  It could be fun.  Pretend it is a stakeout.

This just in from a subcontractor of Gage PI Inc.:



35 employees in the parking lot, but no Goobacks or Sonny K. to be found.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I just figure it out! According to this chart http://blockchain.info/charts/miners-operating-profit-margin?timespan=1year&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=, the profit margin moves upward as more and more miners come online.

I'm such an idiot for not getting into mining.

[geofflosophy]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

[k9quaint]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

They have, the response from the community was "build something first". I don't think many folks want to take another ride on the BFL delivery van.

[Bitcoinorama]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

Don't people typically clone things that work?!?

[erk]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

There are project threads on this forum for building miners based on BFL chips.
BFL provided a full working open source design, including firmware!


Here is one project doing their own board:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258622.0

[RoadStress]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

There are project threads on this forum for building miners based on BFL chips.
BFL provided a full working open source design, including firmware!

Yeah but people who are buying are very few Grats to retard Josh Zerlan aka Inaba's great PR moves!

[PuertoLibre]

You are assuming Avalon had a crystal ball and knew their miner would come out first. At the time they announced they were trying to balance (compete) with BFL. I guess according to you Avalon and BFL and ASIcminer should have all agreed to only increases hashrate 10fold so that someone else could come along (Bitfury, KNC, etc.) and produce a higher hashrate? What you call greed I call risk/reward. If everyone is guaranteed a ROI there is no risk.

At no point did Avalon's product look competitive with BFL, remember the original BFL pricing was way less than it became in April after the price hike, eg. 1,500GH/s MiniRig was only $30k. Therefore the crystal ball aspect was largely irrelevant. As Avalon only took orders for a finite batch size, they simply had to wait until the batch was sold, and start the ball rolling. When something is scarce it sells fast, the units could have been a lot less powerful and they would have all sold. The USB Block Erupter, ASICminer is a classic example of not having to sell high MH/s items, the have sold thousands of the things. People are still queuing up to buy them, and they are incredibly expensive compared to just about every ASIC offering out there.

What total BullShit.

Avalon was competitive. Out of bASIC and BFL, Avalon had the highest hashrate and actually delivered.

BFL did, after close to a year, bASIC never did.

-------------------

In the end, BFL's lower product line consumed more than 5 to 10 times the amount of electricity that it was originally estimated. This was originally one of the selling points.

--Advantage gone, Poof.

[PuertoLibre]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

There are project threads on this forum for building miners based on BFL chips.
BFL provided a full working open source design, including firmware!

Uh, no!

They opened their sales channel for bulk chips at first. From what I recall reading they had originally no intention of releasing their firmware. Probably because they were charging for "upgrades" to give higher performing firmware it seems.

Their sales on this forum was flat to non-existent from what I can remember.

When everyone called them out on not providing enough info on their reference design, they eventually provided the firmware. I distantly recall that the open source folks were seemingly expected to provide and program their own firmware. Then everyone started buying after A) They lowered their price by 25% and then (through their pre-order customers) flooded the market with yet another 25% discount on top of that.

They then made a change to their original sales pitch:

In exchange for the 50% discount (with coupons) they wouldn't be sorting the chips by grades A through D (mixed lots)...you get what you get.

Then they upped the specs on what the chips were guaranteed to do. (I don't recall the specs on power consumption and GH/s)

----------------------

Now ask yourself, why is actual history completely different than what "erk" presents?

Possibly because he works for BFL?

[dwdoc]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

There are project threads on this forum for building miners based on BFL chips.
BFL provided a full working open source design, including firmware!


Here is one project doing their own board:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258622.0

I think that one is the farthest along but here's another:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3831-board-bfl-chips-group-buy-chips.html

[YipYip]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

There are project threads on this forum for building miners based on BFL chips.
BFL provided a full working open source design, including firmware!


Here is one project doing their own board:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258622.0

I think that one is the farthest along but here's another:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3831-board-bfl-chips-group-buy-chips.html

blah blah blah

Heres 1 or maybe 2 startups at concept phase  ...lolz

Avalon have got 300,000- 500,000 chip sales & 15-30 Projects in flight !!!!

BFL what 1-2 thousand..... bye bye BFL  

[YipYip]

Surprised we haven't seen anyone advertising BFL clones yet. I imagine anyone doing one is going to wait until they are ready to ship to announce.

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

There are project threads on this forum for building miners based on BFL chips.
BFL provided a full working open source design, including firmware!

Uh, no!

They opened their sales channel for bulk chips at first. From what I recall reading they had originally no intention of releasing their firmware. Probably because they were charging for "upgrades" to give higher performing firmware it seems.

Their sales on this forum was flat to non-existent from what I can remember.

When everyone called them out on not providing enough info on their reference design, they eventually provided the firmware. I distantly recall that the open source folks were seemingly expected to provide and program their own firmware. Then everyone started buying after A) They lowered their price by 25% and then (through their pre-order customers) flooded the market with yet another 25% discount on top of that.

They then made a change to their original sales pitch:

In exchange for the 50% discount (with coupons) they wouldn't be sorting the chips by grades A through D (mixed lots)...you get what you get.

Then they upped the specs on what the chips were guaranteed to do. (I don't recall the specs on power consumption and GH/s)

----------------------

Now ask yourself, why is actual history completely different than what "erk" presents?

Possibly because he works for BFL?

The guy is a totall Asshat with the dis-information that he spreads 24/7 through the forums

Did not exist 2 months ago and now suddenly he knows everything...total sockpuppet

Funny thing was he did not know any of the Sonny jail time stories which obviously BFL forgot to mention in the interview...lolz

[dominicus]

Hey....look!

The crook has real ASICs for sale, shipping,...someone else getting them while I crow on a f@#$^%$ bulletin board.

[k9quaint]

Hey....look!

The crook has real ASICs for sale, shipping,...someone else getting them while I crow on a f@#$^%$ bulletin board.

http://gallery.mailchimp.com/5015fc3486176144c53751877/images/singles.jpg

Door 1: 20 boxes with fans
Door 2: 2.1 million chips

I'll take door number 2!

[scambutterflylabs]

Avalon PCB已于6月17日量产，高清图片请查看一下进度连接！
老规矩，我们依然选用了ngzhang原版的4层蓝色PCB两倍铜沉金！成本高昂不少的说哦，当然稳定性和散热更强了！

订单负责人：黄雄奇
电话：+86-13760303313
订单QQ：79673544
矿机代工群：76121477


6、1模块整机用户（整机除机箱，到手插电就能挖），￥4388.00
即加￥1278可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价：888+2222*1+1278=￥4388.00
7、2模块整机用户（整机除机箱，到手插电就能挖），￥6588.00
即加￥1256可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价：888+2222*2+1256=￥6588.00
8、3模块整机用户（整机除机箱，到手插电就能挖），￥8688.00
即加￥1134可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价：888+2222*3+1134=￥8688.00
9、4模块整机用户（整机除机箱，到手插电就能挖），￥9999.00
即加￥223可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价：888+2222*4+223=￥9999.00

全铝3MM原版机箱为可选配件，价格￥1288元，7月预备产能500台，目前意向订单7个（217台），有需求代工的，请电话联系！

avalon芯片已经到货，直接午夜直奔工厂，停下2条生产线，立马量产第一批avalon！【7月18日现场直播】
22:35，芯片全貌


23:24，芯片全貌2


23:24，等待芯片已经量产的500PCS控制板


样机测试进度：
【重大更新】[avalon深圳工厂]整机测试稳定!订购芯片的注意!1模组有重大bug!【6月27日更新】
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235965.0

    首先，来talk是个偶遇的机会！
之前一直忙于产品的生产，由于早期就开始接触BTC，所以后来不断的接触到各种BTC矿机的代工，当然，早期我们出货大量的显卡手机解码机，相信圈内的人都明白，很多大鳄，一开始是数百上千台的5970之类的解码机，在BTC爆发之后，大量的转入的挖矿的行业！

    对于我们，既然来到talk比较晚，那么先让我们来介绍一下自己吧！
首先是本人，然后还有我们的团队，我们的工厂！

    本人，黄雄奇，长于广东深圳，一直在圈内玩各种高端DIY装机，曾任太平洋电脑网深圳主编！后自行创业，论坛方面，太平洋电脑网的雨版！
网名ID：ccbmc 不管是搜索网名，还是真名，百度google上面都有大量的资料！
本人实名微博：http://weibo.com/ccbmc
身份证也来一张

    俗话说得好，要想让人信服你，就是让人了解你！既然时间短，只能自爆了

工厂介绍及avalon代工报价细则：https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=229795.0
负责人：黄雄奇
电话：+86-13760303313
代工群：76121477

非常抱歉，事隔一周才更新，这是为啥呢？
说说原因吧，上周这个时候更新，大家也看到我们已经完成了对样机的测试！
可是，一直测试的当中，我们就发现了一个小模块下，跑久了之后，300M的速度，实际打了7-8折！
一直困扰于这个问题，也重制了许多控制器，问题表现一样！
所以，我们大胆的怀疑，南瓜的算法设计，就是不支持1模组，或者说，本身就没为一模组做优化！
所以，出于妥当考虑，我们并未直接更新，告诉所有的人我们已经稳定了！
我们向国内最早拿到avalon的比较出名的人士，寄去了我们的控制器样板，得到的结论，是控制器是正常稳定的！
那么问题，就出在了一个模组上面，在此，非常感谢国内第一个收到avalon整机的芥末童鞋，在深圳为我们准备了一台2批avalon整机供我们测试使用！
测试结果，和预料的一样，一模组，运力只有8折，2模组和3模组测试一切正常！
至此，我们才正式宣布，我们的样机已经能够稳定正常运行，所以，就连一开始，我们已经准备好的量产控制器，也一并于现在更新了！

我想说的一句，为什么前面4团公布分配代工方案这么久，我们一直没有去登记，就是因为，这是个问题，一个很严重的问题，我们如果不能解释清楚，我们不轻易承诺！至少，我们作为一个负责的团队，或者一个负责的工厂，我们坚持这样的原则！
更新后，我们将向jimmy登记我们的详细资料，加入竞争代工的行列！
在此，非常感谢一直信任和支持我们的网友，很多人虽然和我们已经签订了代工合同，但是jimmy处一直还没去登记的原因，我们必须把avalon现在运行的状态告诉大家，让已经团购了只有80片的网友们及早部署，不过，貌似也慢了一步，昨天准备下单2团的时候，发现avalon官网已经暂时停止了芯片的销售！再等几天，avalon系统更新完成之后，是否能够下单了！

好了，上测试结果吧

首先，再度感谢糕富帅的拥有无数avalon整机的芥末童鞋，为我们提供的整机做测试，当然了，鉴于时间就是金钱，我们只是借用几个小时验证我们的推断！


一到手，3下5除二，下一个模组测试！


南瓜的原机做工，欣赏一下吧，到时候还对比我们的做工


这是一种非常高效的散热金属贴，我们已经在采购，不得不佩服一下，南瓜团队里面，设计这个机箱和散热的，就是个天才！


首先上的是原机控制器，没错300下的速度本应该是2.4G，实测只有1.88G


然后，换上我们的控制，测试效果一样，1.8G，因为每个测试都是跑10分钟左右，小小误差，正常！由此得到的结论，一模组，在南瓜的算法设计里面，是被抛弃的！所以4批的机器，也为什么会准备出44G的2模组，并没有22G的1模组！


话不多说，装回去，上3模组测试我们的控制器表现如何！为什么要回机箱里面？裸身在外，散热不够，机箱的风道设计是接近完美的，不过没加上盖，散热效能起码打了7折，作为测试使用，已经足够


上面是我们的控制器，下面的浅蓝色的，是原版avalon的控制器


机箱前置指示灯，正常！


原版控制器，因为是原版，没啥好测了，300M跑到71G，标准性能


更换上我们的控制，跑10分钟，速度依然稳定71G，正常！团队连续通宵10几个晚上制作+测试，在此刻，我们才真正松一口气，至少，我们的一切，都是完全成功的了！


接着，我们再测试了2模组，仔细看图，ccbmc logo下的电源供电已经拔除！


简单跑一跑，46.6G的速度，标准速度，验证通过！
至此，我们4个小时的测试下来，验证了我们前期的推断，1个模组下，算法有瑕疵，果然在测试原版机器之后，得到了验证！


在此，郑重的，感谢fcicq，在我们团队研究avalon之初，就给了我们非常多的提示，以至于让我们少走了非常多的弯路，包括提示我们F1问题，703路由供电硬改问题，固件、超频等等；在此，我代表我们团队致以最高的谢意！


fcicq大神的微博截图，观念就是这样，得到业内精英的肯定，我们引以为荣！


量产控制器


量产控制器


每天加班，我们严肃对待，每一个客户的合同，我们的都是顺丰包邮寄出，单这笔费用，就是一笔不小的开支，但是，我们重视每一个客户！【6月27日更新】

先介绍一下工厂吧，由于想着发帖倡促，就没用相机拍，用了部分之前手机拍的量产Lancelot的部分图片，迟些日子，休完端午小长假，再回工厂拍一些高清的！将就将就！
工厂也在代工其他矿机产品，鉴于保密，能公开的就南瓜的开源lancelot！


之前我们工厂代工量产的Lancelot，6层PCB蓝色沉金两倍铜，1片成本顶2片！


PCB量产激光测试仪，确认PCB出厂100%良品！


工厂贴片流程生产线


10温区回流焊，确保每个零件的焊接精准！绝无虚焊


到了工厂第一件事，当然是做钢网（往PCB刷锡膏，过回流焊），锡膏，行内人才懂的，我们采用日本原装进口阿尔法锡膏，供应商大清早7:30送来，8:00开工，效果最好，顶级的锡膏会随着时间变长而降低效能，像阿尔法这种顶级锡膏，实际效能即使冷藏也只有一周时间，而且一天比一天的效能下降，上图为Lancelot背面钢网！


上贴片机了哦，日本三洋的老机器，因为量产数量比较少（只有2K，所以采用了比较慢的机器，几个小时就搞掂），只停了两条生产线来做Lancelot的正面和背面！


另一台速度比较快的三洋，负责贴背面！


回流焊过后，基本成型，开关、接口、固态电容等后续后焊插件，后续将进入QC检测环节


用料方面，就不一一举例了，我们全线采用顶级的固态电容，钽电容，全封闭陶瓷亚铁素电感！

芯片代工方案参考
Avalon: https://github.com/BitSyncom/avalon-ref
泰国16芯片方案： https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190731.0
                      https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike
美国TerraHash： https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198489.0

关于芯片组装代工的文章：
Avalon芯片矿机组装实践与服务：https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220468.0
莱特币组装专题：http://www.laitebi.com/?cat=23

由于目前完整的方案，只有ngzhang本人的公布的avalon原机制造资料，所以我们首批代工的产品
当然，目前泰国16芯方案已经开源，致命的问题，是作者本人尚未完成最后调试工作，测试BIOS固件也没有放出，所以我们等待作者完成设计工作，然后才加入代工序列

团购批次：
团购 第一批详情见： https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=216755
团购 第二批详情见： https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220259
团购 第三批详情见： https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223159
团购 第四批详情见： https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=225787



avalon成品，机箱我们也已经在定制

[img=800,531]https://i.imgur.com/bqxzS1S.jpg[/img]
对于品质，我们依然遵循原版再升级，原版蓝色4层PCB两倍铜沉金，能换钽电容的，我们进而升级钽电容！

代工报价：
订单负责人：黄雄奇
电话：+86-13760303313
订单QQ：79673544
矿机代工群：76121477

ngzhang Avalon开源方案
1、路由、控制器、汇聚板  ￥888.00
2、单1模块含铝散热片（8PCB，10 Avalon chips/PCS，共需提供80片Avalon chips）  ￥2222.00
3、电源：海韵金牌模组X850 850W额定 ￥1299，原配大量模组线，不喜欢原配的，可以选购以下定制线材
ngzhang原厂用的海盗船AX850即为海韵代工，同一生产线出来贴海盗就是AX850，贴海韵就是X850，不懂者可百度、google查询！
机箱
4、机箱已经在CNC厂加工打样，全铝3mm厚，暂定报价￥1288！量少，首批量产30个！
定制线材
5、为纠结玩家特意准备，X850专业定制线材：￥488.00/套
优惠政策：
6、1模块整机用户（整机除机箱，到手插电就能挖），￥4388.00
即加￥1278可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价：888+2222*1+1278=￥4388.00
7、2模块整机用户（整机除机箱，到手插电就能挖），￥6588.00
即加￥1256可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价：888+2222*2+1256=￥6588.00
8、3模块整机用户（整机除机箱，到手插电就能挖），￥8688.00
即加￥1134可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价：888+2222*3+1134=￥8688.00
9、4模块整机用户（整机除机箱，到手插电就能挖），￥9999.00
即加￥223可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价：888+2222*4+223=￥9999.00


销售条例：
1、以上配件均可单买，也就是一模块用户可以随时提供芯片（80PCS）购买一组模块，自行插上Avalon主机增加运力！
2、以上代工产品，免费售后保修1年，以厂家日期贴标为准，1个月内，我们包来回运费，1-12个月，客户自行负责来回运费！
3、所有产品，保修不含芯片，芯片质量如何，这个只有ngzhang本人才知道，节操掉一地的南瓜博士童鞋！
4、所有代工均需签正式合同，以收到芯片时间为准，第一批1-2周内出货，后续排期，合同时间不超过3周，逾期一天交货，按合同价格5%赔付！


部分定制线材，线材颜色客户可咨询！


合同样本：

Avalon芯片代生产整机合同
生产方：    　　（以下简称甲方）
供料方：          （以下简称乙方）
根据《中华人民共和国合同法》的规定，甲乙双方在平等互利的基础上，经友好协商达成本合同条款，共同遵照执行。具体协议如下：
第一条   乙方向甲方提供QFN48封装的avalon芯片，甲方为乙方生产成可稳定运行的整机、总价等见以下各表（以下报价为未税价格）：

序号   项目明细   数量   单价   费用（单位：元）
1、   控制器、路由、连接板      ¥888   ¥
2、   模块(单模块80芯片)      ¥2222   ¥
3、   电源（海韵X850）      ¥1299   ¥
4、   机箱         ¥
   费用合计         ¥
   优惠合计         ¥

第二条   生产及出货日期
1、   定货日期为本合同签订之日，签订合同时得到一个排序编号，工厂生产排期以此编码前后排期；
2、   乙方必须提供正规渠道向ngzhang采购的avalon产品，甲方在验货之初只验产品是否短路（坏片），并不验是否正品avalon，淘宝购买者，请自行辨别真伪；期初坏片，将通知乙方退回坏片，生产过程出现坏片，将有甲方负责并予以替换！
3、   成品交货日期：按排序编码排期，收到芯片之日起（以快递物流投递时间为准）14天左右出货（以快递物流收货时间为准），约定时间最长不超过21天；
4、   自提地点：深圳市福田区华强北赛格广场13楼1310B；
5、   包装方式：成品独立装箱；
6、   付款方式：
(1)、签订合同之后，甲方向乙方收取合同总价30%作为订金，即：元；
(2)、乙方收到成品整机时，付清余款70%，即：元
(3)、乙方付款方式可为现金、支票、对公转账等；
7、   验收方式：甲方向乙方说明整机速度、产品包装、外观、PCBA板、等具体参数，货物到达后，由乙方完成对货物安装调试，由乙方对货物的品种、质量、品种进行检验，如发现货物的品种、质量、型号、数量与合同规定不符，乙方有权拒绝接受。甲方应对该部分产品立即进行更换，直至该部分产品符合合同规定为止。
8、   本合同签署后，乙方如要求变更约定的发货日期，收货地址或收货人，应在约定的发货日期前3个工作日内书面通知甲方。本条所述的变更次不可超过1次！
第三条   质保规定
1、   本合同所指的货物，至交货日期起，甲方提供一年免费保修服务；
2、   对于以下所列原因导致的产品损毁，甲方不负责保修：
（1）乙方或最终用户工作人员疏忽大意、保管不善、不当操作或意外事故导致的产品损毁；
（2）由除甲方技术人员或其认可的技术人员之外的任何第三方对于产品进行的修理或配件替换，导致的产品任何损毁；
（3）甲方或最终用户自行修改本合同项下产品；
（4）序列号标签及保修标签损坏的，不予保修；
第四条   质保期外，甲方提供有偿跟踪保修服务，服务费按实收取。
第五条   违约责任
1、除不可抗力外，甲方未按时交货，则每日按合同总价款的5%向乙方支付违约金。
2、除不可抗力外，乙方付款逾期，则每日按合同总价款的5%向甲方支付违约金。
3、甲方未在约定时间内修理、更换或退货，应付主要违约责任
第六条   甲、乙双方因不可抗力的原因，不能履行本合同时，应及时通知对方并说明相关理由
第七条   本合同所订一切条款，甲、乙任何一方不得擅自变更、修改或解除，如一方单独变更、修改或解除，对方有权拒绝，并可要求变更、修改或解除合同的一方承担由此造成的一切损失
第八条   本合同在执行中如发生争议，甲、乙双方应协商解决，协商不成时，按下列第1种方式解决，第1种方式无法解决，将采用第二种方式：
1、   提交深圳仲裁委员会仲裁；
2、   依法向人民法院起诉；
第九条   本合同自双方签字之日起生效，本合同在执行期间如有未尽事宜，由甲、乙双方协商，另订附则附于本合同之内，其在法律上与本合同享有同等效力。
第十条   本合同一式两份份，甲、乙双方各执正本一份。
                                                                  
甲    方：深圳市福田区赛格           乙    方：
电子市场奇创天下经营部                          
甲方代表（签字）                     乙方代表（签字）

日    期：                          日    期：

[dominicus]

The heck was that?  Someone in Taiwan is very excited about ASICs, that came through loud and clear.

[YipYip]

Hey....look!

The crook has real ASICs for sale, shipping,...someone else getting them while I crow on a f@#$^%$ bulletin board.

.....lol

firstly there are NO real ASICS for Sale..tese are all pre-orders that have been paid with other ppls money !!

secondly the estimated time of delivery even if the total lies of 300 per day can be believed (they have trouble showing 18 on a table )
it will still take 9 months to get through the backlog

and finally

18 box's stacked on a table..... (everything is a fucking PR stunt of EPIC proportions..where are 300 for the 1 day !!)

vs

1 million chips ...this is the BFL story vs Avalon !!!

[cdog]

BFL isnt shipping 300 units a day... they might be shipping 30 units day, on a good day.

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

Ouch, thats really painful! Once again human nature betrays our best interests...

I fear this is a trend which will lead to our downfall. The Earth will be around long after we are gone though.

The concept of "Earth Day" is kind of funny. As if its The Earth that needs saving... lmao

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The group of Avalon pics above was taken over a course of 19 days using 3 different cameras of which the GPS info was either not on or erased, according EXIF by Jeffrey.

I counted 22, not 18, boxes on the table: One for each original employee of BFL.

[dominicus]

Hey....look!

The crook has real ASICs for sale, shipping,...someone else getting them while I crow on a f@#$^%$ bulletin board.

.....lol

firstly there are NO real ASICS for Sale..tese are all pre-orders that have been paid with other ppls money !!

secondly the estimated time of delivery even if the total lies of 300 per day can be believed (they have trouble showing 18 on a table )
it will still take 9 months to get through the backlog

and finally

18 box's stacked on a table..... (everything is a fucking PR stunt of EPIC proportions..where are 300 for the 1 day !!)

vs

1 million chips ...this is the BFL story vs Avalon !!!

I recall Avalon, but at the time I placed my order with BFL, Avalon was not taking orders, neither was their pricing in my neighborhood anyway.  Lucky those who got Avalons...I try to not let stuff that was never in my cards affect me.

What I don't understand is the incessant talk of scams and stunts, as evidence accumulates pointing otherwise.  The BFL delays severely impaired the value of the shipped units, no doubt about that.

[erk]

What I don't understand is the incessant talk of scams and stunts, as evidence accumulates pointing otherwise.  The BFL delays severely impaired the value of the shipped units, no doubt about that.

When people smear something, it's usually because they have a vested interesting in something that it is competing with, so you just have to work out what that is.

[YipYip]

What I don't understand is the incessant talk of scams and stunts, as evidence accumulates pointing otherwise.  The BFL delays severely impaired the value of the shipped units, no doubt about that.

When people smear something, it's usually because they have a vested interesting in something that it is competing with, so you just have to work out what that is.

Honestly look in the mirror you fucking moron !!!

I have no orders with any BTC equipment of any description ..... ALL LTC and proud of it !!

What i do take exception to is con men,scam artists,thiefs and liars..

You are in this group....you waste of space..contstantly trying to misrepresent the truth and SPIN every situation  to BFL adavantage you SIR are a fucking joke !!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

What I don't understand is the incessant talk of scams and stunts, as evidence accumulates pointing otherwise.  The BFL delays severely impaired the value of the shipped units, no doubt about that.

When people smear something, it's usually because they have a vested interesting in something that it is competing with, so you just have to work out what that is.

Honestly look in the mirror you fucking moron !!!

I have no orders with any BTC equipment of any description ..... ALL LTC and proud of it !!

What i do take exception to is con men,scam artists,thiefs and liars..

You are in this group....you waste of space..contstantly trying to misrepresent the truth and SPIN every situation  to BFL adavantage you SIR are a fucking joke !!

Plus one. (since all +1 are now being deleted)

[HellDiverUK]

I have no orders with any BTC equipment of any description ..... ALL LTC and proud of it !!

What i do take exception to is con men,scam artists,thiefs and liars..

You are in this group....you waste of space..contstantly trying to misrepresent the truth and SPIN every situation  to BFL adavantage you SIR are a fucking joke !!

If you're all LTC, why are you bothered about what BFL do?  It's literally none of your business, as you haven't paid for anything, and obviously don't intend to do so. 

You're just trolling and talking crap.

[ibminer]

I haven't bought any BFL products, but I'd find it hard to believe they wouldn't take a picture of more than 18 units if they had 300/day shipping.... maybe they mean 300 chips per day are leaving the warehouse?   

[erk]

I haven't bought any BFL products, but I'd find it hard to believe they wouldn't take a picture of more than 18 units if they had 300/day shipping.... maybe they mean 300 chips per day are leaving the warehouse?   

They are most certainly not shipping 300 singles per day, and they most have taken pictures of hundreds of jalapenos in production before.

[YipYip]

I haven't bought any BFL products, but I'd find it hard to believe they wouldn't take a picture of more than 18 units if they had 300/day shipping.... maybe they mean 300 chips per day are leaving the warehouse?   

They are most certainly not shipping 300 singles per day, and they most have taken pictures of hundreds of jalapenos in production before.

You are telling lies again !!!

Proof it ...

There has never been a picture of more than 20 as has been demonstrated here once again

[ibminer]

While trying to find an image with more than 20 units in one picture, I think I found the issues with the previous (and somewhat ongoing) shipping delays...



They are using the sticky note system to mark orders!  Eventually those stickies don't stick no more... now there is chaos in trying to establish who ordered what cause all of the stickies are falling off!  ahhhh!!  
(yes, this is a joke... I am sure there is a legitimate reason for the stickies!... I wonder if the butterfly stickies are custom made...  )


EDIT: If they are going through 300 stickies a day, it might be a wiser investment right now to invest in sticky notes    

[polarhei]

300 a day....What the serious shit I have ever heard.

Do they do good? Never

[dominicus]

I haven't bought any BFL products, but I'd find it hard to believe they wouldn't take a picture of more than 18 units if they had 300/day shipping.... maybe they mean 300 chips per day are leaving the warehouse?    

They are most certainly not shipping 300 singles per day, and they most have taken pictures of hundreds of jalapenos in production before.

You are telling lies again !!!

Proof it ...

There has never been a picture of more than 20 as has been demonstrated here once again

I bet there are many discussions which are even less productive than this one, but really, this is childish territory.

It's well established BFL is shipping units and catching up with their huge backlog.

What would a stack of units at a BFL warehouse even prove?  It would prove nothing with respect to their actual shipping rate.  I doubt they're posting these to prove shipping rate ability...they're posting them so miner-wanna-be's will drool over them and click "order!"...look they even added a pretty lady, same as muscle-car magazines do .  Props to their marketing dept.  BFL trying to milk their NRE costs to the max, like any business would be well-advised to do.

Do you want proof BFL is shipping?  The best you'll get is their posting of shipped order dates, and not finding actual buyers saying they're lying.

If BFL posted their shipping ledger, those that passed up on placing a timely order would still come out and cry disbelief.  This perma-hate reaction seems to be some sort of defense-mechanism which only serves to help the poster cope with the crude reality of their poor decision-making, now getting unraveled.

BFL did delay the start of shipments by an intolerable amount of months.  But in the end, I'll say I now kick myself for buying into the mass hysteria on these boards, and not placing my order sooner than I did.  After all, these units where being offered at $124 each.  That was a puny amount of cash to put at risk.

Whatever amount of skeptics out there, BFL no longer needs to prove they're not a scam to continue taking new orders, convincing the skeptics is no longer relevant to their business.  That being said, I'm not advocating placing orders with BFL now.  If you didn't get in with an order in 2012 or early 2013, you're not likely to recover the cost of a BFL unit at this point.  Best try your luck with the new crop of cheaper, more energy-efficient ASIC vendors, maybe cloudhashing shares, or just speculate with BTC directly.

If you're one of those that missed the train and now can't help but post nonsense after-the-fact, start dealing with it in a productive way...maybe sign up for bungee-jumping or parachuting classes, that may help you cope better with the next risky proposition you choose to pass up.

[k9quaint]

It's well established BFL is shipping units and catching up with their huge backlog.

They are shipping. However, they are still on the first day of singles and the sun continues to rise and set, thus they are falling further behind in terms of time and more importantly mining difficulty.

If BFL posted their shipping ledger, those that passed up on placing a timely order would still come out and cry disbelief.

Actually, people would be able to verify that their order was in the ledger. Then they would know when to expect their unit and roughly how much hash rate is between them and receipt of their merchandise. They can watch as BFL makes progress through it and make an informed decision as to whether to ask for a refund or not.

 This perma-hate reaction seems to be some sort of defense-mechanism which only serves to help the poster cope with the crude reality of their poor decision-making, now getting unraveled.

Actually, the math says that the people who "placed a timely order" would have benefited far more by just holding onto their BTC or buying it from an exchange, rather than buying BFL mining equipment to get BTC. So it is not with jealousy but with relief that I look on those who received Singles for 200BTC and I thank my lucky stars that I am not one of them.

Unfortunately, some folks still think they got a good deal.

Edit: Ah. Now it becomes clear.
Name:   dominicus
Date Registered:   July 01, 2013, 12:30:49 PM

I'd ask you to read the thread history of BFL (wholly owned subsidiary of Two More Weeks Inc.) to understand the animosity towards Inaba and his band of merry sockpuppets, but I know you won't. 

[Syke]

It's well established BFL is shipping units and catching up with their huge backlog.

They are shipping. However, they are still on the first day of singles and the sun continues to rise and set, thus they are falling further behind in terms of time and more importantly mining difficulty.

Minirigs: First day.
Singles: First day.
Little Singles: First day.
Jalapenos: Actually shipping. In the past 4 months they've shipped 4 months worth of Jalapeno orders. They are down to only 9 months worth of Jalapeno backlogs left to ship.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

While trying to find an image with more than 20 units in one picture, I think I found the issues with the previous (and somewhat ongoing) shipping delays...



They are using the sticky note system to mark orders!  Eventually those stickies don't stick no more... now there is chaos in trying to establish who ordered what cause all of the stickies are falling off!  ahhhh!!  
(yes, this is a joke... I am sure there is a legitimate reason for the stickies!... I wonder if the butterfly stickies are custom made...  )


EDIT: If they are going through 300 stickies a day, it might be a wiser investment right now to invest in sticky notes    

BFL has their head stuck so far up their ass that they can't even purchase the correct sticky notes.

[billotronic]

I should of sold my jalapeno for more than 2k....

[geofflosophy]

I don't know beyond what they claim in the article whether or not they are shipping 300 units a day, but I do think that it's possible that they could be shipping that many (few?) units and we don't see the evidence on this forum or the tracking log. People are inherently lazy and prone to inaction, and don't necessarily want to be identified as having one of these units or get criticized for being a sockpuppet or shill when they say they got theirs.

Still, even if it's 300 orders a day, that is a snails pace compared to their queue and the fact that they are still accepting orders is tantamount to fraud.

I haven't bought any BFL products, but I'd find it hard to believe they wouldn't take a picture of more than 18 units if they had 300/day shipping.... maybe they mean 300 chips per day are leaving the warehouse?   

[Chronikka]

Still, even if it's 300 orders a day, that is a snails pace compared to their queue and the fact that they are still accepting orders is tantamount to fraud.

I can't believe people are still placing orders. By the time they receive them the difficulty will be too high for the 5 gh/s bfl to be profitable. There are plenty of other asics on the market right now. You may have to spend a little more up front but you get it now and you get to mine during the time the bfl'ers are waiting months for their delivery

[dogie]

xD half a day's worth of Japs shipped in a day, that infinite clear time [unless refunds > half a day's worth, per day]

[scambutterflylabs]

quote:

Mine was in "production" status for more than 2 weeks. So according to this, it was on the assembly floor for over 2 weeks, then it went into a sort of unspoken limbo for 3 weeks while it disappeared, and now it's been "fulfilled" but isn't ready to pick up.


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3907-anyone-get-email-bfl-tonight-info-letter-reprint-below-3.html#post48350

"I suspect the email was to comply with FTC (?) rules which have been quoted a gazillion times on bitcoin talk about communication at least every 30 days if delayed or something.

The reason jally line is so far ahead, they likely have a shit ton of stock that works for jally... probably the boards and cases originally for jally went to scrap and the boards and cases originally for LS and S are being used for jally while the larger products needed to be redesigned."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3907-anyone-get-email-bfl-tonight-info-letter-reprint-below-3.html#post48356

[shmadz]

The fact that they are shipping out sample chips to bulk chip purchasers in a timely fashion suggests that delays are due to issues with other parts and/or assembly and not due to delays in chip acquisition. Not that it's fair but I think BFL chip purchasers will have working clones before many of those who bought miners...

I'm not going to wade through the whole thread because "I've been down that road, I know exactly where it leads..."

but I feel this statement from dwdoc hits the nail on the head.

What did they say in the article? 35 employees I believe? spread between the normal operating overhead of the company I would guess there are less than 20 people actually assembling these devices?

One could imagine how they would have a rough time trying to fill their backlog.

Much easier to simply order the chips from a facility that is actually capable of mass-production and then re-sell the chips to industrious and motivated third-parties who are willing and able to do all the hard work.

[scambutterflylabs]

ONE man real work VS BFL

http://imgur.com/a/lxMWi#Gbonqie

[erk]

ONE man real work VS BFL

http://imgur.com/a/lxMWi#Gbonqie

And in the time it took for a person to assemble all that, one man at BFL could have assembled several hundred Jalapenos making a lot more people happy than 7 Avalon units.

[k9quaint]

ONE man real work VS BFL

http://imgur.com/a/lxMWi#Gbonqie

And in the time it took for a person to assemble all that, one man at BFL could have assembled several hundred Jalapenos making a lot more people happy than 7 Avalon units.

If that were true, BFL would be done with their back log weeks ago. Unless they can't afford the parts...

[nexus99]

Every time my Jally mines out 4 BTC I am ordering a new Jally... When they catch up to my orders it will be like Christmas off in this beeotch! Got 2 on order and working on the third!

[jubalix]

and this is why i mine primecoin!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

For those not able to do the math themselves at home, over the weekend 600 units were assembled to be shipped out first thing Monday morning.


I hate Mondays!

[erk]

Every time my Jally mines out 4 BTC I am ordering a new Jally... When they catch up to my orders it will be like Christmas off in this beeotch! Got 2 on order and working on the third!

Sounds reasonable, I guess you have to do that to keep up with the difficulty increases.

[nexus99]

With no particular evidence to cite I project that at some point there will be a level off of the increase in TH/S and difficulty. I am a very small miner now (8GH/s for BTC and 730 KH/s for LTC) but if I can hold on to my .2 BTC per day production throught the ASIC boom I feel like I will come out OK on the other side. If not I will have a bunch of ASIC boxes that at least paid for themselves...

[YipYip]

I have no orders with any BTC equipment of any description ..... ALL LTC and proud of it !!

What i do take exception to is con men,scam artists,thiefs and liars..

You are in this group....you waste of space..contstantly trying to misrepresent the truth and SPIN every situation  to BFL adavantage you SIR are a fucking joke !!

If you're all LTC, why are you bothered about what BFL do?  It's literally none of your business, as you haven't paid for anything, and obviously don't intend to do so. 

You're just trolling and talking crap.

Truth=trolling ...then yes i am trolling

Plain & fucking simple BFL are bad for the crypto community !!

As long as that this type of un-professional/dishonest  behavior is acceptable we will never move forward..

And we dont live in communist north korea so i can tell you to "Go fuck yourself" as this is my business

[bitterdog]

Still, even if it's 300 orders a day, that is a snails pace compared to their queue and the fact that they are still accepting orders is tantamount to fraud.

I can't believe people are still placing orders. By the time they receive them the difficulty will be too high for the 5 gh/s bfl to be profitable. There are plenty of other asics on the market right now. You may have to spend a little more up front but you get it now and you get to mine during the time the bfl'ers are waiting months for their delivery

You mind naming some? Don't name vaporware of "developing" name the ones with actual shippable. Product.. yeah... and then..

[dentldir]

With no particular evidence to cite I project that at some point there will be a level off of the increase in TH/S and difficulty. I am a very small miner now (8GH/s for BTC and 730 KH/s for LTC) but if I can hold on to my .2 BTC per day production throught the ASIC boom I feel like I will come out OK on the other side. If not I will have a bunch of ASIC boxes that at least paid for themselves...

Maintaining your percentage of global hash rate is a great strategy for getting through the spike as a profitable miner.  Its the flat and downward parts that payoff handsomely.  I can't wait for the next difficulty decrease, even if it takes a couple of years to get there again.  A major crash in BTC/fiat would facilitate that nicely, but at a very high risk to entire offering.

On this side of the spike, its tricky estimating the probabilities that new hardware will ship and when.  It seems that everyone so far has missed on their heat/power estimates.  I don't expect that to change and will likely push units out a couple of months.  Even the USB Sapphires came in at 510ma draw if I remember correctly.

BFL has already faced that battle and adapted.  I'd love to see an announcement of an outsourced agreement for assembly and testing.

Bitfury has already come to terms with missing their density projections if I've followed that thread correctly.  I'd love to see more clarity on the counter party risk for the rest of the world since it is "russia only".  Metabank is the intermediary right?  It seems they will hit October 2013 at this rate but with an unknown quantity.

KnC is an unknown so far but has the highest density on the books.  They recently posted some slides showing a simulation of their cooling solution if their chip were to ever hit 125C, which they don't expect it to do.  (I would hope not).  The large BGA package is worth noting since BGA does not do well in thermal cycled environments.  A working chip with 3rd party verification would be nice here.  Followed by some kind of announcement on where they are setting up their supply and manufacturing chains.  I'd put them at 100% delivery by March 2014 without knowing more.

Avalon DIY seems to be landing at 350MH/s or so per chip, less than the 450MH/s theoretical.  I believe there is a water cooled board that runs at max, but I haven't kept up with that thread.  I think these things will start arriving in August 2013 if the April Avalon chip orders are any indication.  There is also a crazy 107GH/s Avalon miner in the Chinese boards thats worth looking at.

AM is out far ahead of everyone and I expect them to put serious pressure on the price once competitive units emerge into reality.  Especially if they can kick out a 65nm product before the end of the year.  All bets are off if they announce an acquisition of someone else's IP and they stuff it into their manufacturing chain.

[erk]

AM is out far ahead of everyone and I expect them to put serious pressure on the price once competitive units emerge into reality.  Especially if they can kick out a 65nm product before the end of the year.  All bets are off if they announce an acquisition of someone else's IP and they stuff it into their manufacturing chain.

ASICminer are around 48Th/s http://www.asicminercharts.com/live/

Avalon have shipped way more than that ASICminer in just batch #1 and #2, they have volume chips going out to the DIY market, and second generation product in the design phase. I think Avalon will keep ahead of the pack unless BFL can find away to increase their output. I am quite sure BFL could sell a heap more product if they could deliver in an acceptable time frame eg. weeks not months or years, but at this point there is no sign of them doing so. I still see Avalon leading the race for the next 6mths. or more.

[dentldir]

AM is out far ahead of everyone and I expect them to put serious pressure on the price once competitive units emerge into reality.  Especially if they can kick out a 65nm product before the end of the year.  All bets are off if they announce an acquisition of someone else's IP and they stuff it into their manufacturing chain.

ASICminer are around 48Th/s http://www.asicminercharts.com/live/

Avalon have shipped way more than that ASICminer in just batch #1 and #2, they have volume chips going out to the DIY market, and second generation product in the design phase. I think Avalon will keep ahead of the pack unless BFL can find away to increase their output. I am quite sure BFL could sell a heap more product if they could deliver in an acceptable time frame eg. weeks not months or years, but at this point there is no sign of them doing so. I still see Avalon leading the race for the next 6mths. or more.

The chart you linked is what they are running live.  My understanding is that enough chips were produced for 200TH and they are running less to not threaten the network.  Recent marketing materials from resellers in China indicate that they target 1000TH by years end.  Their advantage is their lead in production capability which can be used to control price.

I agree that as a distributed threat, all the Avalon producers combined can also be a dominant force.  Seeing the April chip images solidified that.

BFL needs a black swan announcement to be a big player going forward.

[Unacceptable]

BFL is a done dead duck..............They cannot get shipping in volume,for whatever reason 

IMHO,its due to ineptitude.Poor management & just plain laziness...............

Hope they fold up shop soon 

[jhansen858]

BFL is a done dead duck..............They cannot get shipping in volume,for whatever reason 

IMHO,its due to ineptitude.Poor management & just plain laziness...............

Hope they fold up shop soon 

They claim to have already shipped more hashrate then all other asics combined.  So not sure if this is correct.

[k9quaint]

BFL is a done dead duck..............They cannot get shipping in volume,for whatever reason 

IMHO,its due to ineptitude.Poor management & just plain laziness...............

Hope they fold up shop soon 

They claim to have already shipped more hashrate then all other asics combined.  So not sure if this is correct.

Since Avalon and ASICMiner together account for over 50% of the network, I doubt this is true.
But BFL never let math stand in their way before...

[OmegaNemesis28]

BFL is a done dead duck..............They cannot get shipping in volume,for whatever reason 

IMHO,its due to ineptitude.Poor management & just plain laziness...............

Hope they fold up shop soon 

They claim to have already shipped more hashrate then all other asics combined.  So not sure if this is correct.

Since Avalon and ASICMiner together account for over 50% of the network, I doubt this is true.
But BFL never let math stand in their way before...

Most definitely another one of their infamous lies.

But, lets say they have for giggles. Its only because of the Jalas which may be why they're so far ahead in Jalas. They somehow figured that they can look good by shipping out all the supply of Jalas they can assemble and side-shaft the Minirigs and Singles.
Its a scumbag move through and through.

[erk]

But, lets say they have for giggles. Its only because of the Jalas which may be why they're so far ahead in Jalas. They somehow figured that they can look good by shipping out all the supply of Jalas they can assemble and side-shaft the Minirigs and Singles.
Its a scumbag move through and through.

Have you considered that one model might be easier and faster to build than the others? Nah, that would be too obvious, doesn't fit in with your tin foil hat theory.

[k9quaint]

But, lets say they have for giggles. Its only because of the Jalas which may be why they're so far ahead in Jalas. They somehow figured that they can look good by shipping out all the supply of Jalas they can assemble and side-shaft the Minirigs and Singles.
Its a scumbag move through and through.

Have you considered that one model might be easier and faster to build than the others? Nah, that would be too obvious, doesn't fit in with your tin foil hat theory.

Their first model they shipped was a little single to Luke-Jr.
After 3 months and 22 days they haven't gotten past the first day's worth of single orders...
It ain't complexity of assembly, the single is basically a box with 2 jalapeno's in it. After seeing the teardowns, a person can assemble one in 10 minutes.

[erk]

Monday, July 22, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-23-2013 at 12:43 PM

    Jalapenos shipping through the Nov 2, 2012 Paydate

    Little Singles still shipping June 25, 2012
    Singles finishing June 23, 2012

    MiniRigs June 23

Jalapenos still wining.

[Syke]

Monday, July 22, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-23-2013 at 12:43 PM

    Jalapenos shipping through the Nov 2, 2012 Paydate

    Little Singles still shipping June 25, 2012
    Singles finishing June 23, 2012

    MiniRigs June 23

Jalapenos still wining.

What a joke.

Wednesday, July 10, 2013 Shipping Update

Singles from pay date June 23, 2012 shipped. We are nearing the end of June 23 orders for Singles. We may finish them in a day or two.

1 or 2 days turns in to 13+ days.

[joeventura]

Monday, July 22, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-23-2013 at 12:43 PM

    Jalapenos shipping through the Nov 2, 2012 Paydate

    Little Singles still shipping June 25, 2012
    Singles finishing June 23, 2012

    MiniRigs June 23

Jalapenos still wining.

What a joke.

Wednesday, July 10, 2013 Shipping Update

Singles from pay date June 23, 2012 shipped. We are nearing the end of June 23 orders for Singles. We may finish them in a day or two.

1 or 2 days turns in to 13+ days.

Where are you looking they started working on June 23rd orders on May 20th
Here is the Blog entry:
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/164-monday-5-20-shipping-update.html

Its been 2 months today!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Monday, July 22, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-23-2013 at 12:43 PM

    Jalapenos shipping through the Nov 2, 2012 Paydate

    Little Singles still shipping June 25, 2012
    Singles finishing June 23, 2012

    MiniRigs June 23

Jalapenos still wining.

What a joke.

Wednesday, July 10, 2013 Shipping Update

Singles from pay date June 23, 2012 shipped. We are nearing the end of June 23 orders for Singles. We may finish them in a day or two.

1 or 2 days turns in to 13+ days.

Where are you looking they started working on June 23rd orders on May 20th
Here is the Blog entry:
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/164-monday-5-20-shipping-update.html

Its been 2 months today!

And this is only one reason why I claim BFL is nothing but a bunch of lying, thieving pricks with Sonny Vleisides at the helm.

If the above statement is false, today is the end of the 10 day period which I requested BFL to sue my ass. I expect to be served today.

Let me get this straight: BFL will take the time to notify 60K+ orders the status of the production stage, but have discontinued their live pick-up option that wasn't even in place by a small handful of people desiring to do such. Also, they would take the time to photograph a unit for an eBayer prior to having it picked up by the hosting company, but once sold on eBay, the unit is returned to the BFL's facility so that the eBayer who bought it can pick it up.

If that's the case, then them bastards should all be shot with a load of cum.

[k9quaint]

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.

Of course, if any of those units were full sized singles or mini-rigs, there would be even more hash rate.
Clearly, they are not assembling 300 singles per day.

[joeventura]

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.

Of course, if any of those units were full sized singles or mini-rigs, there would be even more hash rate.
Clearly, they are not assembling 300 singles per day.

Why are you trying to do the math against Josh's claims, you are preaching to the choir buddy.
We don't believe Josh.

I won't call him a liar because I think he believes what he is saying.

I just think he is wrong 100% of the time.

So that being said, if he speaks, then he must be wrong.

[k9quaint]

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.

Of course, if any of those units were full sized singles or mini-rigs, there would be even more hash rate.
Clearly, they are not assembling 300 singles per day.

Why are you trying to do the math against Josh's claims, you are preaching to the choir buddy.
We don't believe Josh.

I won't call him a liar because I think he believes what he is saying.

I just think he is wrong 100% of the time.

So that being said, if he speaks, then he must be wrong.

I like to have more than just my tinfoil hat as evidence 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.

Of course, if any of those units were full sized singles or mini-rigs, there would be even more hash rate.
Clearly, they are not assembling 300 singles per day.

Fuck that! What about 300 units a day for the past month and they are all Jellys?

300 X 30 = 9,000 X 4.5 = 40,500

That equates to 405 TH/s shipped.

And we know Goddamn well that they ordered units themselves to be hosted at the Josh's and Joe's data centers under the guise of foreign miners not wanting to pay the shipping fees or the hassle, both of which is a mute issue since these people don't really exist.

Fuck, they probably placed names in the queue for those mega-miners for the purpose of not only mining with them, but to sell them on the open market, i.e. eBay.

[solitude]

Anyone want to wager how many Single orders they have for June 23rd?  Has to be under 100 right?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.

Fuck that! What about 300 units a day for the past month and they are all Jellys?

300 X 30 = 9,000 X 4.5 = 40,500

That equates to 405 TH/s shipped.

And we know Goddamn well that they ordered units themselves to be hosted at the Josh's and Joe's data centers under the guise of foreign miners not wanting to pay the shipping fees or the hassle, both of which is a mute issue since these people don't really exist.

Fuck, they probably placed names in the queue for those mega-miners for the purpose of not only mining with them, but to sell them on the open market, i.e. eBay.

Math. 

This is why I love Bitcoin.  The provability of the blockchain.  If BFL shipped 90TH/s or 400TH/s we would see it in difficulty.  Actually if anyone was mining with that gear (BFL or owner) we would see it in the difficulty.

So the bad news is that even if BFL is self-mining they are doing so with such a small amount of hashing power as to not be meaningful in context of the amount of orders they have promised.

[Mabsark]

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.

Of course, if any of those units were full sized singles or mini-rigs, there would be even more hash rate.
Clearly, they are not assembling 300 singles per day.

Fuck that! What about 300 units a day for the past month and they are all Jellys?

300 X 30 = 9,000 X 4.5 = 40,500

That equates to 405 TH/s shipped.

And we know Goddamn well that they ordered units themselves to be hosted at the Josh's and Joe's data centers under the guise of foreign miners not wanting to pay the shipping fees or the hassle, both of which is a mute issue since these people don't really exist.

Fuck, they probably placed names in the queue for those mega-miners for the purpose of not only mining with them, but to sell them on the open market, i.e. eBay.

Your numbers are wrong.

300 X 30 = 9,000
9,000 * 4,500,000,000 = 40,500,000,000,000 = 40.5 Th/s

[Mabsark]

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.

Fuck that! What about 300 units a day for the past month and they are all Jellys?

300 X 30 = 9,000 X 4.5 = 40,500

That equates to 405 TH/s shipped.

And we know Goddamn well that they ordered units themselves to be hosted at the Josh's and Joe's data centers under the guise of foreign miners not wanting to pay the shipping fees or the hassle, both of which is a mute issue since these people don't really exist.

Fuck, they probably placed names in the queue for those mega-miners for the purpose of not only mining with them, but to sell them on the open market, i.e. eBay.

Math. 

This is why I love Bitcoin.  The provability of the blockchain.  If BFL shipped 90TH/s or 400TH/s we would see it in difficulty.  Actually if anyone was mining with that gear (BFL or owner) we would see it in the difficulty.

So the bad news is that even if BFL is self-mining they are doing so with such a small amount of hashing power as to not be meaningful in context of the amount of orders they have promised.

The numbers posted above are wrong, the actual value is not 405 Th/s but 40.5 Th/s. Has the network increased by 40.5 TH/s since BFL started shipped? Definitely.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.

Fuck that! What about 300 units a day for the past month and they are all Jellys?

300 X 30 = 9,000 X 4.5 = 40,500

That equates to 405 TH/s shipped.

And we know Goddamn well that they ordered units themselves to be hosted at the Josh's and Joe's data centers under the guise of foreign miners not wanting to pay the shipping fees or the hassle, both of which is a mute issue since these people don't really exist.

Fuck, they probably placed names in the queue for those mega-miners for the purpose of not only mining with them, but to sell them on the open market, i.e. eBay.

Math. 

This is why I love Bitcoin.  The provability of the blockchain.  If BFL shipped 90TH/s or 400TH/s we would see it in difficulty.  Actually if anyone was mining with that gear (BFL or owner) we would see it in the difficulty.

So the bad news is that even if BFL is self-mining they are doing so with such a small amount of hashing power as to not be meaningful in context of the amount of orders they have promised.

The numbers posted above are wrong, the actual value is not 405 Th/s but 40.5 Th/s. Has the network increased by 40.5 TH/s since BFL started shipped? Definitely.

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

[Mabsark]

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.

Fuck that! What about 300 units a day for the past month and they are all Jellys?

300 X 30 = 9,000 X 4.5 = 40,500

That equates to 405 TH/s shipped.

And we know Goddamn well that they ordered units themselves to be hosted at the Josh's and Joe's data centers under the guise of foreign miners not wanting to pay the shipping fees or the hassle, both of which is a mute issue since these people don't really exist.

Fuck, they probably placed names in the queue for those mega-miners for the purpose of not only mining with them, but to sell them on the open market, i.e. eBay.

Math.  

This is why I love Bitcoin.  The provability of the blockchain.  If BFL shipped 90TH/s or 400TH/s we would see it in difficulty.  Actually if anyone was mining with that gear (BFL or owner) we would see it in the difficulty.

So the bad news is that even if BFL is self-mining they are doing so with such a small amount of hashing power as to not be meaningful in context of the amount of orders they have promised.

The numbers posted above are wrong, the actual value is not 405 Th/s but 40.5 Th/s. Has the network increased by 40.5 TH/s since BFL started shipped? Definitely.

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

That value of 9,000 is the number of unit's shipped in 30 days, not a hash rate.

300 units per day * 30 days = 9,000 units.

[Ytterbium]

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. You are supposed to remove THREE zeros dude.  40,500 billion = 40.5 trillion.

Math. 

This is why I love Bitcoin.

Yes, math is nice.  Unfortunately most people can't do it right.

[Inaba]

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

Your level of stupid never ceases to amaze me.  I don't even know how you maintain respiration.  It seems your autonomic nervous system would have decided to pack up and head to more lush pastures, like a desert somewhere, so that it can die quietly and finally be free of you.

[jordaninthesky]

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

Your level of stupid never ceases to amaze me.  I don't even know how you maintain respiration.  It seems your autonomic nervous system would have decided to pack up and head to more lush pastures, like a desert somewhere, so that it can die quietly and finally be free of you.

It seems this guy has father issues.  The father can tell him that he is stupid, but he cannot say what "it" is.  If stupid is as stupid does, this is it.

For the observers, we can tell that the math has been off by a decimal, but that's not actually stupid considering it is still applied math, and yet a common mistake.

You are desperately trying to make yourself feel better in compensation for your lack of ability to do anything but talk shit.   Logistics?  From you?  Not really.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

Your level of stupid never ceases to amaze me.  I don't even know how you maintain respiration.  It seems your autonomic nervous system would have decided to pack up and head to more lush pastures, like a desert somewhere, so that it can die quietly and finally be free of you.

If you paid me a quarter to suck you dick, would you brag about it on the internet? I autonomic nervously await your reply.

Now, what about that lawsuit. Is BFL going to sue me or not?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

You guys also dissing Josh better watch it! Soon, all those who had BFL ads in their sigs, will be here to ream you all a new one. Especially the ones that won the contests and are waiting for their prizes. And waiting, and waiting, and waiting...

Can you imagine sucking dick and not getting paid? (those living alternative lifestyles are not included in that statement, nor am I being judgemental)

[k9quaint]

Let me revisit the math with better labels.

Say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
Assume that each little single can do 30GH/s.
300 singles x 30GH/s per single = 9000 GH/s per day shipped. That is 9 TH/s per day claimed to be shipped by BFL.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
20 working days per month would yield 180TH/s.

Avalon's batch 2 arriving and being switched on is visible.
The ASICMiner increase in hash rate from their website is visible.
I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped in the network hash rate.
An extra 90 TH/s every 10 days should be very visible considering the overall network hash rate is ~220 TH/s.

Edit: notice how Inaba shows up in the thread but never actually defends their claim that they could ship 300 units a day.

[Inaba]

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

Your level of stupid never ceases to amaze me.  I don't even know how you maintain respiration.  It seems your autonomic nervous system would have decided to pack up and head to more lush pastures, like a desert somewhere, so that it can die quietly and finally be free of you.

If you paid me a quarter to suck you dick, would you brag about it on the internet? I autonomic nervously await your reply.

Now, what about that lawsuit. Is BFL going to sue me or not?

We'll just add poor grammar, spelling and homophobia to the list of things that make you a worthless piece of shit and a pathetic human being.  Like the list wasn't already long enough.

So not only are you a confirmed liar, you're also a homophobe, excellent.  You are a real piece of work.

Now, why don't you go back to grade school and learn basic math before talking shit on the internet?

[Blazed]

This thread delivers!

[Crypt_Current]

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

Your level of stupid never ceases to amaze me.  I don't even know how you maintain respiration.  It seems your autonomic nervous system would have decided to pack up and head to more lush pastures, like a desert somewhere, so that it can die quietly and finally be free of you.

+1

BTW, you guys (BFL) sent me four (4) jalepenos when I only ordered two (2).  Thanks!

[Mabsark]

Let me revisit the math with better labels.

Say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.
Assume that each little single can do 30GH/s.
300 singles x 30GH/s per single = 9000 GH/s per day shipped. That is 9 TH/s per day claimed to be shipped by BFL.
That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.
20 working days per month would yield 180TH/s.

Avalon's batch 2 arriving and being switched on is visible.
The ASICMiner increase in hash rate from their website is visible.
I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped in the network hash rate.
An extra 90 TH/s every 10 days should be very visible considering the overall network hash rate is ~220 TH/s.

Edit: notice how Inaba shows up in the thread but never actually defends their claim that they could ship 300 units a day.

BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim. BFL claimed they could ship 400+ units per day (400 Jalapenos + whatever else they could build). I haven't seen any claim that they are actually shipping that amount at the moment. Those numbers are not unrealistic, so if they're not hitting them (which certainly seems to be the case), that suggests that they have a problem with supply of components or are too stingy to hire the necessary labour force.

[Flying Hellfish]

BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim. BFL claimed they could ship 400+ units per day (400 Jalapenos + whatever else they could build). I haven't seen any claim that they are actually shipping that amount at the moment. Those numbers are not unrealistic, so if they're not hitting them (which certainly seems to be the case), that suggests that they have a problem with supply of components or are too stingy to hire the necessary labour force.

So, did you actually read the article linked in the OP?  Is the author lying?

“We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me.

http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

[klondike_bar]

We'll just add poor grammar, spelling and homophobia to the list of things that make you a worthless piece of shit and a pathetic human being.  Like the list wasn't already long enough.

So not only are you a confirmed liar, you're also a homophobe, excellent.  You are a real piece of work.

Now, why don't you go back to grade school and learn basic math before talking shit on the internet?

Best. Company. Ever.

I've got a paypal order that is less than 45 days old and can be disputed successfully on a whim for various paypal guidelines. right now it looks like that will be the case... what a special type of idiot Inaba/BFL_josh is to make his company look like a pile of incompetent fools who are in past their heads

[Ytterbium]

For the observers, we can tell that the math has been off by a decimal, but that's not actually stupid considering it is still applied math, and yet a common mistake.

You don't have to be a BFL fan to be shocked and amazed that someone doesn't know how many billions make a trillion, and then ask how his math is wrong when he "removed two zeros".

[erk]

For the observers, we can tell that the math has been off by a decimal, but that's not actually stupid considering it is still applied math, and yet a common mistake.

You don't have to be a BFL fan to be shocked and amazed that someone doesn't know how many billions make a trillion, and then ask how his math is wrong when he "removed two zeros".

The math isn't the issue, it's the persistent trolling from the person that attracts critical responses from others. If he didn't troll, the math would be corrected and glossed over, the thread would move on.

[k9quaint]

BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim.

BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim. BFL claimed they could ship 400+ units per day (400 Jalapenos + whatever else they could build). I haven't seen any claim that they are actually shipping that amount at the moment. Those numbers are not unrealistic, so if they're not hitting them (which certainly seems to be the case), that suggests that they have a problem with supply of components or are too stingy to hire the necessary labour force.

So, did you actually read the article linked in the OP?  Is the author lying?

“We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me.

http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

That author visited BFL during the time when BFL "stopped the Jalapeno line to let the Singles and Mini-rigs catch up".
So yeah, BFL is claiming to have shipped 90TH/s by virtue of claiming to be shipping 300 little singles (or better) a day.

Let me provide the entire quote from the article from the OP:
"The Butterfly Labs HQ is bustling with employees, over 35 of them I’m told. Customer service, assembly and logistics are all run from the facility.
“We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me. We’re standing in the back of their facility in a suburb south of Kansas City. This is the warehouse portion of their headquarters, and it is chock full of boxes from floor to ceiling. A forklift is parked off to the side."

[k9quaint]

For the observers, we can tell that the math has been off by a decimal, but that's not actually stupid considering it is still applied math, and yet a common mistake.

You don't have to be a BFL fan to be shocked and amazed that someone doesn't know how many billions make a trillion, and then ask how his math is wrong when he "removed two zeros".

The math isn't the issue, it's the persistent trolling from the person that attracts critical responses from others. If he didn't troll, the math would be corrected and glossed over, the thread would move on.

BFL never corrects the math. That is the point. Inaba only shows up, throws some LiarDouche Powder (TM) on the thread, says "Two more weeks" and then rides off without having shed any light at all on BFL's failure to meet their obligations to their investors.

[RoadStress]

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

Your level of stupid never ceases to amaze me.  I don't even know how you maintain respiration.  It seems your autonomic nervous system would have decided to pack up and head to more lush pastures, like a desert somewhere, so that it can die quietly and finally be free of you.

If you paid me a quarter to suck you dick, would you brag about it on the internet? I autonomic nervously await your reply.

Now, what about that lawsuit. Is BFL going to sue me or not?

We'll just add poor grammar, spelling and homophobia to the list of things that make you a worthless piece of shit and a pathetic human being.  Like the list wasn't already long enough.

So not only are you a confirmed liar, you're also a homophobe, excellent.  You are a real piece of work.

Now, why don't you go back to grade school and learn basic math before talking shit on the internet?

How is the shipping going?

[YipYip]

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

Your level of stupid never ceases to amaze me.  I don't even know how you maintain respiration.  It seems your autonomic nervous system would have decided to pack up and head to more lush pastures, like a desert somewhere, so that it can die quietly and finally be free of you.

If you paid me a quarter to suck you dick, would you brag about it on the internet? I autonomic nervously await your reply.

Now, what about that lawsuit. Is BFL going to sue me or not?

We'll just add poor grammar, spelling and homophobia to the list of things that make you a worthless piece of shit and a pathetic human being.  Like the list wasn't already long enough.

So not only are you a confirmed liar, you're also a homophobe, excellent.  You are a real piece of work.

Now, why don't you go back to grade school and learn basic math before talking shit on the internet?

How is the shipping going?

Hows chapter 11 going ...lolz 

Sorry I may be jumping the gun by a few weeks

[Unacceptable]

BFL is shipping 300 units a day 

Whoda thunk it 

I'm impressed 

Hell,BFL will have ALL preorders filled by....Sept 

[ninjarobot]

(Meanwhile... difficulty reached 31,256,961)

[Mabsark]

BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim.

BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim. BFL claimed they could ship 400+ units per day (400 Jalapenos + whatever else they could build). I haven't seen any claim that they are actually shipping that amount at the moment. Those numbers are not unrealistic, so if they're not hitting them (which certainly seems to be the case), that suggests that they have a problem with supply of components or are too stingy to hire the necessary labour force.

So, did you actually read the article linked in the OP?  Is the author lying?

“We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me.

http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

That author visited BFL during the time when BFL "stopped the Jalapeno line to let the Singles and Mini-rigs catch up".
So yeah, BFL is claiming to have shipped 90TH/s by virtue of claiming to be shipping 300 little singles (or better) a day.

Let me provide the entire quote from the article from the OP:
"The Butterfly Labs HQ is bustling with employees, over 35 of them I’m told. Customer service, assembly and logistics are all run from the facility.
“We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me. We’re standing in the back of their facility in a suburb south of Kansas City. This is the warehouse portion of their headquarters, and it is chock full of boxes from floor to ceiling. A forklift is parked off to the side."

Like I said, and as you have just shown, BFL never claimed to have shipped 90 TH/s in 10 days.

[k9quaint]

BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim.

BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim. BFL claimed they could ship 400+ units per day (400 Jalapenos + whatever else they could build). I haven't seen any claim that they are actually shipping that amount at the moment. Those numbers are not unrealistic, so if they're not hitting them (which certainly seems to be the case), that suggests that they have a problem with supply of components or are too stingy to hire the necessary labour force.

So, did you actually read the article linked in the OP?  Is the author lying?

“We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me.

http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

That author visited BFL during the time when BFL "stopped the Jalapeno line to let the Singles and Mini-rigs catch up".
So yeah, BFL is claiming to have shipped 90TH/s by virtue of claiming to be shipping 300 little singles (or better) a day.

Let me provide the entire quote from the article from the OP:
"The Butterfly Labs HQ is bustling with employees, over 35 of them I’m told. Customer service, assembly and logistics are all run from the facility.
“We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me. We’re standing in the back of their facility in a suburb south of Kansas City. This is the warehouse portion of their headquarters, and it is chock full of boxes from floor to ceiling. A forklift is parked off to the side."

Like I said, and as you have just shown, BFL never claimed to have shipped 90 TH/s in 10 days.

Actually, it shows the opposite of what you are claiming.
If they were shipping 300 units a day, after 10 days they would have shipped 90TH/s.  I am not saying BFL shipped 90TH/s in 10 days. I am saying they did not, because that 90TH/s is not visible in the network hashrate. Thus, BFL have not been shipping 300 units a day while they stopped their Jalapeno production to focus on Singles and Mini-rig orders. No Jalapeno's produced + claim of 300 units per day shipping = false claim by BFL. The two claims together are incompatible.

We are not talking about BFL claiming 400+ or any other claims you have raised. We are talking about Josh's claim of 300 a day, in the article, in the present tense, in the OP of this thread.

[jordaninthesky]

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

Your level of stupid never ceases to amaze me.  I don't even know how you maintain respiration.  It seems your autonomic nervous system would have decided to pack up and head to more lush pastures, like a desert somewhere, so that it can die quietly and finally be free of you.

If you paid me a quarter to suck you dick, would you brag about it on the internet? I autonomic nervously await your reply.

Now, what about that lawsuit. Is BFL going to sue me or not?

We'll just add poor grammar, spelling and homophobia to the list of things that make you a worthless piece of shit and a pathetic human being.  Like the list wasn't already long enough.

So not only are you a confirmed liar, you're also a homophobe, excellent.  You are a real piece of work.

Now, why don't you go back to grade school and learn basic math before talking shit on the internet?

I love the fact that because he doesn't want to suck your dick, he's a homophobe.  This is gold for me.  Thanks for making my participation in the stupidity experiment not entirely in vain.  You are a "True Fag", Josh. (Ask your plastic wife)

Inaba = BFL_Josh posting with hopes of not having accounts linked, yet trying to entice hype for BFL's presence before BTC.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

If 9000 GH/s = 90 TH/s, how does 40,500 GH/s = 40.5 TH/s? I did the same math, removing two 0's.

Your level of stupid never ceases to amaze me.  I don't even know how you maintain respiration.  It seems your autonomic nervous system would have decided to pack up and head to more lush pastures, like a desert somewhere, so that it can die quietly and finally be free of you.

If you paid me a quarter to suck you dick, would you brag about it on the internet? I autonomic nervously await your reply.

Now, what about that lawsuit. Is BFL going to sue me or not?

We'll just add poor grammar, spelling and homophobia to the list of things that make you a worthless piece of shit and a pathetic human being.  Like the list wasn't already long enough.

So not only are you a confirmed liar, you're also a homophobe, excellent.  You are a real piece of work.

Now, why don't you go back to grade school and learn basic math before talking shit on the internet?

I don't think you meant to add grammar and spelling to the list that supposedly makes me a worthless piece of shit because I can provide links of your posts and sites scattered across the internet showing common errors that somebody of your intellect should not have done.

Putting grammar aside, let's do some simple math and revisit the calendar, for obviously you failed them two courses.

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

Maybe two weeks? We are waiting for the test lab to issue the test report.

With the bump in power requirements on the MR and the new screen, we had to make changes, although the new screen is already certified.  We are doing all the devices at once, since they all share the same board.

Note the date of your post. Add two weeks. Then add two more. Keep doing that until you reach the current week. Notice anything? We are still waiting for the FCC certs you promised. And your promises are as good as gold because, unlike all of us, you don't lie.

Am I beating a dead horse? YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I AM!

You, Josh, have yet to re-address the FCC issue since you have first mentioned it, in spite of even your loyal customers kindly asking for further development.

I await your reply to this post, pointing out some grammatical error on my part, for that'll be more FUCKIN' important than addressing the FCC issue.

And I'm the piece of shit! Remember, I'm not the guy currently on probation waiting for my probation period to end, all the time hanging onto to as much of the pre-order money as possible.

300 units a day my ass!

[Mabsark]

BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim.

BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim. BFL claimed they could ship 400+ units per day (400 Jalapenos + whatever else they could build). I haven't seen any claim that they are actually shipping that amount at the moment. Those numbers are not unrealistic, so if they're not hitting them (which certainly seems to be the case), that suggests that they have a problem with supply of components or are too stingy to hire the necessary labour force.

So, did you actually read the article linked in the OP?  Is the author lying?

“We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me.

http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

That author visited BFL during the time when BFL "stopped the Jalapeno line to let the Singles and Mini-rigs catch up".
So yeah, BFL is claiming to have shipped 90TH/s by virtue of claiming to be shipping 300 little singles (or better) a day.

Let me provide the entire quote from the article from the OP:
"The Butterfly Labs HQ is bustling with employees, over 35 of them I’m told. Customer service, assembly and logistics are all run from the facility.
“We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me. We’re standing in the back of their facility in a suburb south of Kansas City. This is the warehouse portion of their headquarters, and it is chock full of boxes from floor to ceiling. A forklift is parked off to the side."

Like I said, and as you have just shown, BFL never claimed to have shipped 90 TH/s in 10 days.

Actually, it shows the opposite of what you are claiming.
If they were shipping 300 units a day, after 10 days they would have shipped 90TH/s.  I am not saying BFL shipped 90TH/s in 10 days. I am saying they did not, because that 90TH/s is not visible in the network hashrate. Thus, BFL have not been shipping 300 units a day while they stopped their Jalapeno production to focus on Singles and Mini-rig orders. No Jalapeno's produced + claim of 300 units per day shipping = false claim by BFL. The two claims together are incompatible.

We are not talking about BFL claiming 400+ or any other claims you have raised. We are talking about Josh's claim of 300 a day, in the article, in the present tense, in the OP of this thread.

The claim of 90 Th/s in 10 days is entirely yours based on the maths of shipping 300 Little Singles per day. BFL never claimed to be shipping 300 Little Singles per day, they claimed to be shipping "about 300 units a day" as shown in the quote you provided. Provide the quote of a BFL employee claiming to have shipped either 90 Th/s in 10 days or 300 Little Singles (as opposed to 300 units) per day. If you can't do that then stop talking out of your arse.

[cryptoanarchist]

Yeah, and I'm shipping 600 - 10GH miners a day. Anyone wanna pre-order with me?

[Stack]

Complete BS, they MAY have shipped 300 one day, but they are definitely not shipping that much every day.

Yes, they saved up all-year

[Unacceptable]

Complete BS, they MAY have shipped 300 one day, but they are definitely not shipping that much every day.

Yes, they saved up all-year

What    

BFL is NOT shipping 300 units every day  

I wish you guys would get the freakin story straight...............................  

BFL_Josh...PLEASE tell me its true !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You wouldn't lie to me would you 

[Inaba]

And I'm the piece of shit! Remember, I'm not the guy currently on probation waiting for my probation period to end, all the time hanging onto to as much of the pre-order money as possible.

300 units a day my ass!

No, you're not, Bruno.  You're just a confirmed thief who embezzles fund from charities and steal wood from local properties that you resell on Cragislist.  Yeah, definitely a stand up citizen, you are.

[YipYip]

And I'm the piece of shit! Remember, I'm not the guy currently on probation waiting for my probation period to end, all the time hanging onto to as much of the pre-order money as possible.

300 units a day my ass!

No, you're not, Bruno.  You're just a confirmed thief who embezzles fund from charities and steal wood from local properties that you resell on Cragislist.  Yeah, definitely a stand up citizen, you are.

Is this what you have time for addressing the great missing wood debate !!

Are you shipping or have shipped 300 units and day ?

You have ~ 35 days left of your 90 days and all backorders will be filled ...hows that going oh wait you are going to insult somebody about grammar or missing wood or the lid left off toothpaste ...class act of somebody that is morally bankrupt...

good luck with your future employment prospects which are NONE !!!!

lolz ...loser 

[jordaninthesky]

300 units a day my ass!

No, you're not, Bruno.  You're just a confirmed thief who embezzles fund from charities and steal wood from local properties that you resell on Cragislist.  Yeah, definitely a stand up citizen, you are.

So my singles were stolen by Bruno, and resold as firewood!?

How do I know this is true and you aren't just using smoke and mirrors Josh?

[Ytterbium]

Here's what I don't get:  They obviously have tons of money, why don't they just hire some temp staffers to assemble and ship the units? They could even use a temp agency - with the unemployment rate being what it is, how could it be difficult to find people capable of stuffing circuit boards in boxes and running some tests?  The 500Ghash rigs might be more difficult since they are so ridiculous inside.

Oh well, more blocks for Avalon uses I guess

[erk]

Here's what I don't get:  They obviously have tons of money, why don't they just hire some temp staffers to assemble and ship the units? They could even use a temp agency - with the unemployment rate being what it is, how could it be difficult to find people capable of stuffing circuit boards in boxes and running some tests?  The 500Ghash rigs might be more difficult since they are so ridiculous inside.

Oh well, more blocks for Avalon uses I guess

It sounds like more or a parts organizing issue rather then just assembly force, they are always out of PSU's for Singles.

[Ytterbium]

It sounds like more or a parts organizing issue rather then just assembly force, they are always out of PSU's for Singles.

I don't understand why they don't just send raw circuit boards to customers.  If I'd ordered from BFL, I'd rather get a board and figure out power and cooling myself then sit around and wait for months and months as the difficulty goes up to get my stuff.

[Unacceptable]

And I'm the piece of shit! Remember, I'm not the guy currently on probation waiting for my probation period to end, all the time hanging onto to as much of the pre-order money as possible.

300 units a day my ass!

No, you're not, Bruno.  You're just a confirmed thief who embezzles fund from charities and steal wood from local properties that you resell on Cragislist.  Yeah, definitely a stand up citizen, you are.

Is this what you have time for addressing the great missing wood debate !!

Are you shipping or have shipped 300 units and day ?

You have ~ 35 days left of your 90 days and all backorders will be filled ...hows that going oh wait you are going to insult somebody about grammar or missing wood or the lid left off toothpaste ...class act of somebody that is morally bankrupt...

good luck with your future employment prospects which are NONE !!!!

lolz ...loser  

Wait,Josh extended the 90 days from Aug till Sept......so its a "SLIDING 90 days™"......meaning,you get to add another 30 days anytime you need to

[mezzomix]

You have ~ 35 days left of your 90 days and all backorders will be filled

Compare this information with the status: Still shipping single orders from June 23 2012! A liar will always keep lying.

[erk]

It sounds like more or a parts organizing issue rather then just assembly force, they are always out of PSU's for Singles.

I don't understand why they don't just send raw circuit boards to customers.  If I'd ordered from BFL, I'd rather get a board and figure out power and cooling myself then sit around and wait for months and months as the difficulty goes up to get my stuff.

If they had tested boards to spare, I am sure it could be a viable option for those that like to tinker with hardware.

[mezzomix]

Do you have enough trust in BFL, so they will not send you boards with defect chips and blame you for destroying the board/ASICs?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Rough night, tonight! Got sprayed by a skunk, took a nail to the knee, a 12" wide barn board with lead paint hit my forehead, and the truck is now stuck in the mud on some farmer's property. Did I miss anything while I gone for a couple hours?

While out, I dreamt up a couple new Bitcoin Charity ideas so that I can steal some more money from miners.

Has anybody else noticed the dangerous game Josh is playing? That boy ain't right, and he better start getting his priorities in line. Either that, or take another trip to Vegas to buy himself some more pussy.

This should give enough ammo for Josh to pen his next post, for the Sonny-Sucker won't comment on the FCC issue.

[Loredo]

No, you're not, Bruno.  You're just a confirmed thief who embezzles fund from charities and steal wood from local properties that you resell on Cragislist.  Yeah, definitely a stand up citizen, you are.

 
160 posts of truth, lies, FUD, conjecture and half-truths, and this guy swoops in, does a hit-and-run ad hominem attack on his nemesis, accusing him of stealing wood. 

I come to the BFL threads now in the morning even before chron dot com to read my morning comics.  It's more fun, and you can't make this shit up.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

No, you're not, Bruno.  You're just a confirmed thief who embezzles fund from charities and steal wood from local properties that you resell on Cragislist.  Yeah, definitely a stand up citizen, you are.

 
160 posts of truth, lies, FUD, conjecture and half-truths, and this guy swoops in, does a hit-and-run ad hominem attack on his nemesis, accusing him of stealing wood. 

I come to the BFL threads now in the morning even before chron dot com to read my morning comics.  It's more fun, and you can't make this shit up.

Not forget the other thread where Josh has taken it upon himself to publish my real last name, but jizz-face has yet to release Sonny K.'s last name even though many have asked, including his loyal customers he refers to as Monumental Assholes.

And I'm the bad guy in all this? The guy trying to ferret out the truth?

If I recall, there were those trying to ferret out the truth about Pirate, all of which were ridiculed as well. Look at what shit Trendon is in now. And here we have Josh defending his boss, Sonny Vleisides, in a similar manner.

When the day comes, I will be literally laughing my ass off when shit finally hits the fanssssssssssss.

300 units a day my ass! It's already been proven that this is not happening, yet even it were, it'll take months to ship out all the backorders, after which time BFL doesn't have a single product in the works to follow up their ASIC line, even if they had the trust of their customer base to sell anything in the future.

In six more weeks, Sonny may be off his probation and will be able to fly to Costa Rica to enjoy the beauty of its blue butterflies.

[k9quaint]

The claim of 90 Th/s in 10 days is entirely yours based on the maths of shipping 300 Little Singles per day. BFL never claimed to be shipping 300 Little Singles per day, they claimed to be shipping "about 300 units a day" as shown in the quote you provided. Provide the quote of a BFL employee claiming to have shipped either 90 Th/s in 10 days or 300 Little Singles (as opposed to 300 units) per day. If you can't do that then stop talking out of your arse.

This is the fourth time I have tried to explain why you are on my side. Please pay attention, it is making you look bad.
A) BFL_josh made the claim in the article in the OP that they are shipping 300 units a day.
B) BFL_jody said they stopped the Jalapeno production line to let the "singles and mini-rig lines catch up".

Those two statements in combination (if true) would result in at least 9TH/s per day (over 10 days time the lower bound would be 90TH/s) since by BFL's own admission they had temporarily stopped shipping Jalapeno's. Since 90TH/s is not visible in the hash rate, it does not exist. Therefore, one of those two statements is false.

As to which statement:
People who were expecting their Jalapenos to be built and shipped (since BFL was close to their pay date) had an unexplained week long wait that generated several forum posts. Therefore, it was more likely that BFL redirected their efforts towards the other lines as Jody claimed.
That leaves Josh's statement to a reporter touring the BFL facilities as unlikely to be true.

Since this thread is about that statement, I provided the math behind why the title of this thread is somewhat misleading.

[k9quaint]

No, you're not, Bruno.  You're just a confirmed thief who embezzles fund from charities and steal wood from local properties that you resell on Cragislist.  Yeah, definitely a stand up citizen, you are.

 
160 posts of truth, lies, FUD, conjecture and half-truths, and this guy swoops in, does a hit-and-run ad hominem attack on his nemesis, accusing him of stealing wood. 

I come to the BFL threads now in the morning even before chron dot com to read my morning comics.  It's more fun, and you can't make this shit up.

I think the SEC charging Pirateat40 has made Josh a little nervous and testy. It seams the Feds are taking fraud in the Bitcoin space more seriously than some had thought. 

[Loredo]

I think the SEC charging Pirateat40 has made Josh a little nervous and testy. It seams the Feds are taking fraud in the Bitcoin space more seriously than some had thought. 

You may be right.  More seriously than I had thought, I'll admit.  My view was they would let bitcoin fraud and crime consume it from the inside.  I guess that that fraud was so egregious, and so clearly fraught with securities violations, that they couldn't let it go. 

The pre-sales, though, I'm still not sure there will be governmental intervention.  That said, I've been surprised that BFL hasn't been more aggressive in "correcting" posters on these forums when the term "investor" rather than "presale customer" was used.  Sure, it would be a stretch to associate a presale with an unregistered investment, since it was tied to a specific item, but, still, you can't be too careful when you're running close to an edge.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I think the SEC charging Pirateat40 has made Josh a little nervous and testy. It seams the Feds are taking fraud in the Bitcoin space more seriously than some had thought. 

You may be right.  More seriously than I had thought, I'll admit.  My view was they would let bitcoin fraud and crime consume it from the inside.  I guess that that fraud was so egregious, and so clearly fraught with securities violations, that they couldn't let it go. 

The pre-sales, though, I'm still not sure there will be governmental intervention.  That said, I've been surprised that BFL hasn't been more aggressive in "correcting" posters on these forums when the term "investor" rather than "presale customer" was used.  Sure, it would be a stretch to associate a presale with an unregistered investment, since it was tied to a specific item, but, still, you can't be too careful when you're running close to an edge.

I'm willing to bet that a lot more refund requests were made once the SEC article about Pirate got released, especially by investors further down the queue. Those close to the top of the queue may not request a refund, opting to take a calculated gamble, the same gamble by those made too late in Pirate's Ponzi Scheme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nqcL0mjMjw

[Ytterbium]

It's really not that uncommon for a company to a long time to deliver a product.  If you look at stuff done on Kickstarter, things got funded and took way longer to deliver then promised. The only difference is that with bitcoin hardware, a lot of the value is tied to when you get hardware.  If it comes to late, it's worthless.

For things like android watches or whatever, customers are not going to care that much, they're just buying a toy and their lives will go on if it's a year late.

But I don't think BFL will be criminally liable as long as they ship all their products, even if it takes 2 years and the miners don't even pay for electricity once they finally reach customers.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

It's really not that uncommon for a company to a long time to deliver a product.  If you look at stuff done on Kickstarter, things got funded and took way longer to deliver then promised. The only difference is that with bitcoin hardware, a lot of the value is tied to when you get hardware.  If it comes to late, it's worthless.

For things like android watches or whatever, customers are not going to care that much, they're just buying a toy and their lives will go on if it's a year late.

But I don't think BFL will be criminally liable as long as they ship all their products, even if it takes 2 years and the miners don't even pay for electricity once they finally reach customers.

And BFL is well aware of the loophole. Legally, they can deliver one unit a day and be within the confines of the law. But they opt to send out a dozen units a day to keep the refund requests as low as possible.

For those patiently waiting for units, Josh is currently in his office penning posts on this forum, posting private PMs sent to him.

Any other employee, whether a COO or not, of any other company doing such, would be immediately terminated. That said, why is Josh still employed at BFL? I think the last thing that Sonny Vleisides wants is more heat bestowed upon his beloved up-and-up enterprise.

I formally request that BF Labs Inc. immediately fire Josh Zerlan from their company before he starts releasing private information about BFL's affairs.

Sonny: Josh, I'm sorry to say this, but I have to let you go.

Josh: But,...

[Inaba]

It's really not that uncommon for a company to a long time to deliver a product.  If you look at stuff done on Kickstarter, things got funded and took way longer to deliver then promised. The only difference is that with bitcoin hardware, a lot of the value is tied to when you get hardware.  If it comes to late, it's worthless.

For things like android watches or whatever, customers are not going to care that much, they're just buying a toy and their lives will go on if it's a year late.

But I don't think BFL will be criminally liable as long as they ship all their products, even if it takes 2 years and the miners don't even pay for electricity once they finally reach customers.

And BFL is well aware of the loophole. Legally, they can deliver one unit a day and be within the confines of the law. But they opt to send out a dozen units a day to keep the refund requests as low as possible.

For those patiently waiting for units, Josh is currently in his office penning posts on this forum, posting private PMs sent to him.

Any other employee, whether a COO or not, of any other company doing such, would be immediately terminated. That said, why is Josh still employed at BFL? I think the last thing that Sonny Vleisides wants is more heat bestowed upon his beloved up-and-up enterprise.

I formally request that BF Labs Inc. immediately fire Josh Zerlan from their company before he starts releasing private information about BFL's affairs.

Sonny: Josh, I'm sorry to say this, but I have to let you go.

Josh: But,...

More homophobic hyperbole from Phinnaeus Gage AKA Bruno Kucinskas!  You go, Bruno!  Show the world what a bigoted, irresponsible liar you truly are!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

It's really not that uncommon for a company to a long time to deliver a product.  If you look at stuff done on Kickstarter, things got funded and took way longer to deliver then promised. The only difference is that with bitcoin hardware, a lot of the value is tied to when you get hardware.  If it comes to late, it's worthless.

For things like android watches or whatever, customers are not going to care that much, they're just buying a toy and their lives will go on if it's a year late.

But I don't think BFL will be criminally liable as long as they ship all their products, even if it takes 2 years and the miners don't even pay for electricity once they finally reach customers.

And BFL is well aware of the loophole. Legally, they can deliver one unit a day and be within the confines of the law. But they opt to send out a dozen units a day to keep the refund requests as low as possible.

For those patiently waiting for units, Josh is currently in his office penning posts on this forum, posting private PMs sent to him.

Any other employee, whether a COO or not, of any other company doing such, would be immediately terminated. That said, why is Josh still employed at BFL? I think the last thing that Sonny Vleisides wants is more heat bestowed upon his beloved up-and-up enterprise.

I formally request that BF Labs Inc. immediately fire Josh Zerlan from their company before he starts releasing private information about BFL's affairs.

Sonny: Josh, I'm sorry to say this, but I have to let you go.

Josh: But,...

More homophobic hyperbole from Phinnaeus Gage AKA Bruno Kucinskas!  You go, Bruno!  Show the world what a bigoted, irresponsible liar you truly are!

No problem, bud! Will do! And you keep on responding to posts while working in the capacity of BFL on irrelevant subject matter while your customer base awaits product.

BTW, please point out the lie I made when inquiring about that FCC cert you promised in two weeks back in last November. I apologize for keep bringing it up, nut you keep glossing over the subject each and every time I, among your loyal customers, keep bringing it up.

And what about the lie you commented about meeting with Sonny K. but have yet to release whom that person was?

Josh = COO of BF Labs Inc.
Bruno = A person on the internet asking very, very, very simple questions.
Josh = Doxxing a person on the internet for asking very, very, very simple questions.
Bruno = The guy being doxxed and accused of stealing barn wood around the Sandwich, IL, area.
Josh = Deflecting the attention away from any subject of which may harm BFL.
Bruno = Continues to ask the same very, very, very simple questions.

Which person above has a credibility issue: The barn wood guy or the guy doxxing the barn wood guy?

[Inaba]

Yet another one of Bruno's lies:

~Bruno Kucinskas~ (my real full name, sans the Jr., verifiable, for your doxxing pleasure)  

Huh, name posted by Bruno himself in March... yet somehow I'm the first one to post it.  Yep... more honesty from one of the biggest scammers in Bitcoin, Bruno Kucinskas aka Phinnaeus Gage.

How'd that 30% of sales thing go?  

The reply I quoted is in reference to me stating that Bitcoin 100 will become self-supported. Over and beyond the 1% referral fee earned, of which won't occur till further down the road, I'll be starting up an entity of which 30% of net sales will go directly into the coffer of Bitcoin 100.

Straight to your pocket, I'd wager.  Quite the little scam you have going on there Bruno.  Stealing from a charity, quite a class act!

[fractal02]

Bruno = A person on the internet asking very, very, very simple questions.
Josh = Doxxing a person on the internet for asking very, very, very simple questions.
Bruno = The guy being doxxed and accused of stealing barn wood around the Sandwich, IL, area.
Josh = Deflecting the attention away from any subject of which may harm BFL.
Bruno = Continues to ask the same very, very, very simple questions.

Which person above has a credibility issue: The barn wood guy or the guy doxxing the barn wood guy?

Really Bruno ?

I read a lot of your posts here...

I never see any simple questions...only implying, false evidence (oh yeah your supa post with the pictures from different hardware..) tin foil hat conspiracy, etc, etc...

The only thing simple i see here...is YOU.

[k9quaint]

Bruno = A person on the internet asking very, very, very simple questions.
Josh = Doxxing a person on the internet for asking very, very, very simple questions.
Bruno = The guy being doxxed and accused of stealing barn wood around the Sandwich, IL, area.
Josh = Deflecting the attention away from any subject of which may harm BFL.
Bruno = Continues to ask the same very, very, very simple questions.

Which person above has a credibility issue: The barn wood guy or the guy doxxing the barn wood guy?

Really Bruno ?

I read a lot of your posts here...

I never see any simple questions...only implying, false evidence (oh yeah your supa post with the pictures from different hardware..) tin foil hat conspiracy, etc, etc...

The only thing simple i see here...is YOU.

Name:   fractal02
Posts:   23
Activity:   22
Position:   Member
Date Registered:   July 18, 2013, 07:59:06 AM

Accounts older than April 1st 2013 that unambiguously support BFL:
Kano (paid for with hashing equipment)
Slok (paid moderator for BFL forums)
Inaba (COO of BFL)

Anyone have any others?

[fractal02]

The only thing simple i see here...is YOU.

Name:   fractal02
Posts:   23
Activity:   22
Position:   Member
Date Registered:   July 18, 2013, 07:59:06 AM

Accounts older than April 1st 2013 that unambiguously support BFL:
Kano (paid for with hashing equipment)
Slok (paid moderator for BFL forums)
Inaba (COO of BFL)

Anyone have any others?

Hahaha....You fail so hard...

Next player try again

I don't support BFL...I only hate weirdo behavior.

PS: I'm not paid but i accept donation 1NY4JjTBJuj6EgA9BQ6bXyKdyVThrDRuQk  

[k9quaint]

I don't support BFL...I only hate weirdo behavior.

People shouldn't care what accounts created a week ago think of BFL. I know I don't.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/bitcoin-ponzi-scheme-alleged-by-sec-in-lawsuit-against-texas-man/2013/07/24/232a764e-f3c0-11e2-81fa-8e83b3864c36_story.html
The SEC got Pirateat40, is BFL next?

[Mabsark]

The claim of 90 Th/s in 10 days is entirely yours based on the maths of shipping 300 Little Singles per day. BFL never claimed to be shipping 300 Little Singles per day, they claimed to be shipping "about 300 units a day" as shown in the quote you provided. Provide the quote of a BFL employee claiming to have shipped either 90 Th/s in 10 days or 300 Little Singles (as opposed to 300 units) per day. If you can't do that then stop talking out of your arse.

This is the fourth time I have tried to explain why you are on my side. Please pay attention, it is making you look bad.
A) BFL_josh made the claim in the article in the OP that they are shipping 300 units a day.
B) BFL_jody said they stopped the Jalapeno production line to let the "singles and mini-rig lines catch up".

Those two statements in combination (if true) would result in at least 9TH/s per day (over 10 days time the lower bound would be 90TH/s) since by BFL's own admission they had temporarily stopped shipping Jalapeno's. Since 90TH/s is not visible in the hash rate, it does not exist. Therefore, one of those two statements is false.

As to which statement:
People who were expecting their Jalapenos to be built and shipped (since BFL was close to their pay date) had an unexplained week long wait that generated several forum posts. Therefore, it was more likely that BFL redirected their efforts towards the other lines as Jody claimed.
That leaves Josh's statement to a reporter touring the BFL facilities as unlikely to be true.

Since this thread is about that statement, I provided the math behind why the title of this thread is somewhat misleading.

You said:

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.

Then you did some maths. Then you made the following statement:

That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.

Which is simply a lie. You are the one making that claim "for the sake of argument", not BFL. BFL only claim that they were shipping 300 units per day.

[k9quaint]

The claim of 90 Th/s in 10 days is entirely yours based on the maths of shipping 300 Little Singles per day. BFL never claimed to be shipping 300 Little Singles per day, they claimed to be shipping "about 300 units a day" as shown in the quote you provided. Provide the quote of a BFL employee claiming to have shipped either 90 Th/s in 10 days or 300 Little Singles (as opposed to 300 units) per day. If you can't do that then stop talking out of your arse.

This is the fourth time I have tried to explain why you are on my side. Please pay attention, it is making you look bad.
A) BFL_josh made the claim in the article in the OP that they are shipping 300 units a day.
B) BFL_jody said they stopped the Jalapeno production line to let the "singles and mini-rig lines catch up".

Those two statements in combination (if true) would result in at least 9TH/s per day (over 10 days time the lower bound would be 90TH/s) since by BFL's own admission they had temporarily stopped shipping Jalapeno's. Since 90TH/s is not visible in the hash rate, it does not exist. Therefore, one of those two statements is false.

As to which statement:
People who were expecting their Jalapenos to be built and shipped (since BFL was close to their pay date) had an unexplained week long wait that generated several forum posts. Therefore, it was more likely that BFL redirected their efforts towards the other lines as Jody claimed.
That leaves Josh's statement to a reporter touring the BFL facilities as unlikely to be true.

Since this thread is about that statement, I provided the math behind why the title of this thread is somewhat misleading.

You said:

Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles.

Then you did some maths. Then you made the following statement:

That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s.

Which is simply a lie. You are the one making that claim "for the sake of argument", not BFL. BFL only claim that they were shipping 300 units per day.

I like how you quote my statements in this very post, which you then ignore in order to draw your conclusion. Fortunately, I have the patience of a saint when dealing with folks who have trouble following logic.

You should not ignore the maths, it is the whole point of this series of posts.
You should also not ignore the bolded statement where BFL_Jody declared that the Jalapeno line was stopped while the other lines catch up.
Where I said "for the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles", that was to establish the lower bound. Those units could not be Jalapeno's per BFL_Jody's statement that none of those were shipping. Those 300 units could have been Little Singles, Singles, or Mini-rigs. I said for the sake of argument that they were all little singles because if any of them were larger than little singles, then the math is even farther than adding up. Little singles have the least hash rate of the possible shipping units from BFL.

My statement is not a "claim" as you put it. It was an assumption, and then under that assumption I illustrated that the maths did not add up. Therefore the assumption could not be true. BFL could not be shipping 300 of little singles, or 300 of anything larger than little singles. BFL_Jody said that the Jalapeno line was halted during this period. So the point of my posts are:

If at the time of the visit BFL could not have been shipping 300 Jalapenos (according to BFL_Jody).
and if BFL could not have been shipping 300 little singles (the maths don't add up),
and if BFL could not have been shipping 300 of anything larger than little singles (the maths are even farther from adding up),
then BFL was not shipping 300 of anything while Josh was giving that tour.

[joeventura]

How about an easier one:

If BFL is shipping 300 units a day and has been working on June 23rd 2012 orders since May 21st
How many units has BFL shipped?

If you assume they are working 7 days a week then 18900 units.
If you assume they are working 5 days a week then 13800 units.

Do you believe either of these numbers?

I didn't think so.

How many orders do you think reasonably were placed on June 23rd 2012?
Take that number and divide it by the number of production days between today and May 21st 2013 and that is how many they are likely shipping each day.  If you think it was 5000 units ordered on 6/23/12 and they work only on weekdays then they are shipping 105 units a day.

Currently they are again out of power supplies for Singles (50gh/60gh units) and are shipping only units where they get the ok from customers to ship without a Power Supply.

Mini-Rigs, the units that were $20k plus still have not moved but a couple.

And Jalapenos are back to sending out one day of orders each day.

You guys get into the name calling and the accusations. Try using common sense. A 5th grader can see they aren't shipping 300 a day.
In Josh's mind it's the truth because he saw 300 Jalapenos go out the door on one day and ONE day only.

2 weeks ago (tm) he said that production would grow to over 600 units a day, and his shipping person is telling us they are out of power supplies.

I don't think he is a liar, I just think he is wrong. All the time.

[Xian01]

I don't think he is a liar, I just think he is wrong. All the time.

 Holy semantics, Batman ! That's quite the noodle-baker.

[k9quaint]

How about an easier one:

If BFL is shipping 300 units a day and has been working on June 23rd 2012 orders since May 21st
How many units has BFL shipped?

If you assume they are working 7 days a week then 18900 units.
If you assume they are working 5 days a week then 13800 units.

Do you believe either of these numbers?

I didn't think so.

How many orders do you think reasonably were placed on June 23rd 2012?
Take that number and divide it by the number of production days between today and May 21st 2013 and that is how many they are likely shipping each day.  If you think it was 5000 units ordered on 6/23/12 and they work only on weekdays then they are shipping 105 units a day.

Currently they are again out of power supplies for Singles (50gh/60gh units) and are shipping only units where they get the ok from customers to ship without a Power Supply.

Mini-Rigs, the units that were $20k plus still have not moved but a couple.

And Jalapenos are back to sending out one day of orders each day.

You guys get into the name calling and the accusations. Try using common sense. A 5th grader can see they aren't shipping 300 a day.
In Josh's mind it's the truth because he saw 300 Jalapenos go out the door on one day and ONE day only.

2 weeks ago (tm) he said that production would grow to over 600 units a day, and his shipping person is telling us they are out of power supplies.

It is clear that the right hand at BFL does not know what the left hand is doing. They issue conflicting statements as to what is occurring while trying to placate irate customers on their own forums. I would imagine that customers with large orders don't get censored or banned on BFL forums, lest those same customers ask for a refund and precipitate a run on refunds. So since they can't delete all the angry posts, BFL has to come up with "explanations".

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Yet another one of Bruno's lies:

~Bruno Kucinskas~ (my real full name, sans the Jr., verifiable, for your doxxing pleasure)  

Huh, name posted by Bruno himself in March... yet somehow I'm the first one to post it.  Yep... more honesty from one of the biggest scammers in Bitcoin, Bruno Kucinskas aka Phinnaeus Gage.

How'd that 30% of sales thing go?  

The reply I quoted is in reference to me stating that Bitcoin 100 will become self-supported. Over and beyond the 1% referral fee earned, of which won't occur till further down the road, I'll be starting up an entity of which 30% of net sales will go directly into the coffer of Bitcoin 100.

Straight to your pocket, I'd wager.  Quite the little scam you have going on there Bruno.  Stealing from a charity, quite a class act!

How can you be the first to report it when I was the first to report it?

That 30% of sales thing is going terrible! I'm recognizing 40% - 65% that I'm pocketing. I'm seriously thinking about ending my barn wood endeavor to scam charities full time.

Quite the little scam you have going on there Bruno.

Thank you! See, you can be nice when you want to.

Here's a gift to you: If you can find the site mentioned, I authorize BitcoinTalk to ban me permanently. Today is your lucky day, Josh. Don't let this opportunity pass you by.

Happy hunting!

[YipYip]

I don't think he is a liar, I just think he is wrong. All the time.

 Holy semantics, Batman ! That's quite the noodle-baker.

I am not a liar just wrong 100% of the time ...lolz

That is the best denialist viewpoint of a topic I have ever seen 

[YipYip]

Bruno = A person on the internet asking very, very, very simple questions.
Josh = Doxxing a person on the internet for asking very, very, very simple questions.
Bruno = The guy being doxxed and accused of stealing barn wood around the Sandwich, IL, area.
Josh = Deflecting the attention away from any subject of which may harm BFL.
Bruno = Continues to ask the same very, very, very simple questions.

Which person above has a credibility issue: The barn wood guy or the guy doxxing the barn wood guy?

Really Bruno ?

I read a lot of your posts here...

I never see any simple questions...only implying, false evidence (oh yeah your supa post with the pictures from different hardware..) tin foil hat conspiracy, etc, etc...

The only thing simple i see here...is YOU.

Here are some simple questions

1) Are you shipping 300 units a day ... and can you show us proof ?
2) Are you going to meet the 90 day deadline for all pre-orders shipped ...(~34 days left) ?
3) Where is the FCC cert for your products ?


Where are the simple answers ?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Bruno = A person on the internet asking very, very, very simple questions.
Josh = Doxxing a person on the internet for asking very, very, very simple questions.
Bruno = The guy being doxxed and accused of stealing barn wood around the Sandwich, IL, area.
Josh = Deflecting the attention away from any subject of which may harm BFL.
Bruno = Continues to ask the same very, very, very simple questions.

Which person above has a credibility issue: The barn wood guy or the guy doxxing the barn wood guy?

Really Bruno ?

I read a lot of your posts here...

I never see any simple questions...only implying, false evidence (oh yeah your supa post with the pictures from different hardware..) tin foil hat conspiracy, etc, etc...

The only thing simple i see here...is YOU.

Here are some simple questions

1) Are you shipping 300 units a day ... and can you show us proof ?
2) Are you going to meet the 90 day deadline for all pre-orders shipped ...(~34 days left) ?
3) Where is the FCC cert for your products ?


Where are the simple answers ?

Who is/was Sonny K.?

[jordaninthesky]

I don't think he is a liar, I just think he is wrong. All the time.

 Holy semantics, Batman ! That's quite the noodle-baker.

I am not a liar just wrong 100% of the time ...lolz

That is the best denialist viewpoint of a topic I have ever seen  

This could sell a book, but still, not from prison.  The shame of this institution...

It makes sense that SLoK is Sonny K, seeing how involved he is without actually being capable of benefiting from his endeavors of "defending BFL".

I think what really happened, is that BFL spent months making devices, and decided to "test them" for months, on the live network, because it was more convenient than programming a dummy system.  Awesome.  And then one day they realized, well, we got to look like we are actually doing some kind of business.  So Josh gets this brilliant idea, right?  Shipping 300 units, in one day.  Well no shit.

Also, it is my understanding that if you buy something from outside of your country, and you pay "x".  You receive "x" back if you are warranted a refund.  BFL was the one to flaunt that it accepts BTC, as if it were supporting the network or something.  

[erk]

Wednesday, July 24, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-25-2013 at 11:05 AM

    Jalapenos through November 8, 2012.

    Little Singles: None shipped today. Stopped on June 25, 2012 orders.

    Singles: June 23, 2012

    MiniRigs June 23, 2012

Jalapenos still winning today too.

[jordaninthesky]

It's disgusting that there is a race between the different models.

[k9quaint]

It's disgusting that there is a race between the different models.

Not much of a race. The singles and mini-rigs haven't moved yet.
They have managed to ship 2 days worth of little singles in 2 months.
Good thing they "let the other lines catch up". 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

It's disgusting that there is a race between the different models.

Not much of a race. The singles and mini-rigs haven't moved yet.
They have managed to ship 2 days worth of little singles in 2 months.
Good thing they "let the other lines catch up". 

I sure am glad that this BFL episode is getting behind us. Everything is going to be fine now that BFL is in full production assembling 400 units a day. See my thread for more info.

God's speed, BFL.

[jhansen858]

too bad bill gates didn't get on forums back when windows crashed every day.  windows 95 days. that's about the only thing that could top this.

[erk]

too bad bill gates didn't get on forums back when windows crashed every day.  windows 95 days. that's about the only thing that could top this.

There is actually not much to see here, a bunch of the same people, pretty much all of which have been on my ignore list since April, trolling each other. They inhabit every BFL thread. I am trying to keep it on course a little bit publishing BFL shipping updates when I notice them.

[Unacceptable]

too bad bill gates didn't get on forums back when windows crashed every day.  windows 95 days. that's about the only thing that could top this.

There is actually not much to see here, a bunch of the same people, pretty much all of which have been on my ignore list since April, trolling each other. They inhabit every BFL thread. I am trying to keep it on course a little bit publishing BFL shipping updates when I notice them.

Well,you won't be too busy then,will you 

[YipYip]

too bad bill gates didn't get on forums back when windows crashed every day.  windows 95 days. that's about the only thing that could top this.

There is actually not much to see here, a bunch of the same people, pretty much all of which have been on my ignore list since April, trolling each other. They inhabit every BFL thread. I am trying to keep it on course a little bit publishing BFL shipping updates when I notice them.

Thats great sock puppet ...why dont u just fuck off then !!

We dont really need your neverending pro-BFL smear all over the place ...it leaves a stench of lies and corruption

[Xian01]

too bad bill gates didn't get on forums back when windows crashed every day.  windows 95 days. that's about the only thing that could top this.

There is actually not much to see here, a bunch of the same people, pretty much all of which have been on my ignore list since April, trolling each other. They inhabit every BFL thread. I am trying to keep it on course a little bit publishing BFL shipping updates when I notice them.

Well,you won't be too busy then,will you 

 It's telling and somewhat amusing, that so many people involved with America's Favorite Bitcoin Company lack any sense of irony or meta-awareness.

[dominicus]

I noticed some odd peculiarity with the ongoing diatribes here, and I have to say, if it weren't for all the free time waiting for my BFL box, I wouldn't have come to realize this.

• Copy the full text from any post from Phinnaeus or inaba
  
• Run by SHA256

The resulting hash always includes the characters R-E-D-R-U-M in some position along the string.

Phinnaeus Gage IS inaba!

[joeventura]

I don't think he is a liar, I just think he is wrong. All the time.

 Holy semantics, Batman ! That's quite the noodle-baker.

I am not a liar just wrong 100% of the time ...lolz

That is the best denialist viewpoint of a topic I have ever seen  

Being a liar invokes a sense of knowing better, thus being cunning and trying to cover up the truth.
Being wrong all the time means you are just incompetent.

If you are publicly telling stories that a 3rd grader could see through, are you a liar or incompetent?

The guy is telling us 2+2=96 and then getting snotty when no one believes him.

 

And Josh,  You will NOT get your back orders caught up by the end of September. No way, no how.
My prediction is that by the time you finish delivering your back orders every SKU will be worthless and each will have a negative ROI, your only hope is that BTC goes back up to $235

[LazyOtto]

only hope is that BTC goes back up to $235

Which does no good for those who paid in BTC on assurance of delivery by <date>.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I noticed some odd peculiarity with the ongoing diatribes here, and I have to say, if it weren't for all the free time waiting for my BFL box, I wouldn't have come to realize this.

• Copy the full text from any post from Phinnaeus or inaba
  
• Run by SHA256

The resulting hash always includes the characters R-E-D-R-U-M in some position along the string.

Phinnaeus Gage IS inaba!

Wait one damn minute! All because I have an Honest Abe totem pole in my yard doesn't mean...

Oh, you want to see the totem pole?

Give me a sec.

BRB!

[Unacceptable]

You may have a "totem pole" PG,but Josh is on the upper end of the "scrotem pole"  

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I noticed some odd peculiarity with the ongoing diatribes here, and I have to say, if it weren't for all the free time waiting for my BFL box, I wouldn't have come to realize this.

• Copy the full text from any post from Phinnaeus or inaba
  
• Run by SHA256

The resulting hash always includes the characters R-E-D-R-U-M in some position along the string.

Phinnaeus Gage IS inaba!

Wait one damn minute! All because I have an Honest Abe totem pole in my yard doesn't mean...

Oh, you want to see the totem pole?

Give me a sec.

BRB!

Here it is, with Honest Abe holding the first edition of Bitcoin Magazine, propped in place by a piece of barn wood I stole last night.

[scambutterflylabs]

quote BFL_Jody:

"I did not hire Josh and I do not work for Josh. We are equals in he company even though he is way smarter than I am (in some things). Did you know he can speak Korean and can make BTC Miners light up like toys?"

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/255-thursday-july-25-2013-shipping-update.html

[Syke]

We are no longer taking pre-orders. Since we have fully-tested products, we are taking ORDERS.

BWAHAHA. Orders for things not in stock, not built, and delivered at an unspecified date. That's what a pre-order is. Duh!

[k9quaint]

From BFL_Jody

Little Singles: none shipped today (today I should be a coward and turn off comments, because although it's not my fault they haven't made Little Single boards, you will pummel me with your comments for it.) Little Singles are still ahead of Singles and MiniRigs, though.

Singles: It seems we have only 4 more orders left for June 23, but still no PSU's so I can't ship those orders yet. So we shipped orders from June 23 and June 24, 2012 which were able to accept units without PSU's. Thanks again for emailing your willingness to accept units without PSU's. It makes sending orders to production so much faster. I don't answer those emails--I archive them in a folder for reference as I'm sending the orders. If your order comes up and I don't see an email from you about the PSU's I will email you, so don't worry about whether I got it.

MiniRigs from June 23 shipped.

Response to Comments:

I did not hire Josh and I do not work for Josh. We are equals in he company even though he is way smarter than I am (in some things). Did you know he can speak Korean and can make BTC Miners light up like toys?

We are no longer taking pre-orders. Since we have fully-tested products, we are taking ORDERS.

I am asking about the BitSafe wallet myself. Thank God we don't have pre-orders for those.

The only product that has shipped more than 1 day's worth of orders is the Jalapeno and those still have a 10 month backlog.
BFL equipment will qualify as antiques when their investor's finally get them.

[erk]

BFL_Jody
Thursday, July 25, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-26-2013 at 10:51 AM

    Jalapenos shipping through November 9 paydate

    Little Singles: none shipped today (today I should be a coward and turn off comments, because although it's not my fault they haven't made Little Single boards, you will pummel me with your comments for it.) Little Singles are still ahead of Singles and MiniRigs, though.

    Singles: It seems we have only 4 more orders left for June 23, but still no PSU's so I can't ship those orders yet. So we shipped orders from June 23 and June 24, 2012 which were able to accept units without PSU's. Thanks again for emailing your willingness to accept units without PSU's. It makes sending orders to production so much faster. I don't answer those emails--I archive them in a folder for reference as I'm sending the orders. If your order comes up and I don't see an email from you about the PSU's I will email you, so don't worry about whether I got it.

    MiniRigs from June 23 shipped.

I don't have any singles on order yet, but if I did I would forgo the PSU for two reasons, firstly to get mining!, and secondly to get through customs easier.

[YipYip]

I noticed some odd peculiarity with the ongoing diatribes here, and I have to say, if it weren't for all the free time waiting for my BFL box, I wouldn't have come to realize this.

• Copy the full text from any post from Phinnaeus or inaba
  
• Run by SHA256

The resulting hash always includes the characters R-E-D-R-U-M in some position along the string.

Phinnaeus Gage IS inaba!

Wait one damn minute! All because I have an Honest Abe totem pole in my yard doesn't mean...

Oh, you want to see the totem pole?

Give me a sec.

BRB!

Here it is, with Honest Abe holding the first edition of Bitcoin Magazine, propped in place by a piece of barn wood I stole last night.

Thats my frigen barn door................ you thief !!

I was saving that barn door for a rainy day... Now i am barn doorless ...

I dont know how u got through all the security to steal my barn door wood pilings ...but know this I will not rest until my barn door wood is safe and @ home where it belongs

I am calling you out SIR as a BARNAPHILE  !!!

Please get help...I myself having been hanging around home steads trying to score a paling or just a nice piece of 4 by 2

Next thing you will be sleeping in sawdust and watching "AX MEN" on the discovery channel...

Listen to somebody whop has come back from the edge....BARNAPHILIA  is not a life worth living... lolz

[Unacceptable]

BFL_Jody
Thursday, July 25, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-26-2013 at 10:51 AM

    Jalapenos shipping through November 9 paydate

    Little Singles: none shipped today (today I should be a coward and turn off comments, because although it's not my fault they haven't made Little Single boards, you will pummel me with your comments for it.) Little Singles are still ahead of Singles and MiniRigs, though.

    Singles: It seems we have only 4 more orders left for June 23, but still no PSU's so I can't ship those orders yet. So we shipped orders from June 23 and June 24, 2012 which were able to accept units without PSU's. Thanks again for emailing your willingness to accept units without PSU's. It makes sending orders to production so much faster. I don't answer those emails--I archive them in a folder for reference as I'm sending the orders. If your order comes up and I don't see an email from you about the PSU's I will email you, so don't worry about whether I got it.

    MiniRigs from June 23 shipped.

I don't have any singles on order yet, but if I did I would forgo the PSU for two reasons, firstly to get mining!, and secondly to get through customs easier.

LMAO,I got my 30GH'er July 1st,I can't believe BFL hasn't got past the 23rd or 24th of June yet,3 freakin weeks later 

I am SOO happy to be off the preorder list,NEVER AGAIN BFL 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

BFL_Jody
Thursday, July 25, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-26-2013 at 10:51 AM

    Jalapenos shipping through November 9 paydate

    Little Singles: none shipped today (today I should be a coward and turn off comments, because although it's not my fault they haven't made Little Single boards, you will pummel me with your comments for it.) Little Singles are still ahead of Singles and MiniRigs, though.

    Singles: It seems we have only 4 more orders left for June 23, but still no PSU's so I can't ship those orders yet. So we shipped orders from June 23 and June 24, 2012 which were able to accept units without PSU's. Thanks again for emailing your willingness to accept units without PSU's. It makes sending orders to production so much faster. I don't answer those emails--I archive them in a folder for reference as I'm sending the orders. If your order comes up and I don't see an email from you about the PSU's I will email you, so don't worry about whether I got it.

    MiniRigs from June 23 shipped.

I don't have any singles on order yet, but if I did I would forgo the PSU for two reasons, firstly to get mining!, and secondly to get through customs easier.

LMAO,I got my 30GH'er July 1st,I can't believe BFL hasn't got past the 23rd or 24th of June yet,3 freakin weeks later 

I am SOO happy to be off the preorder list,NEVER AGAIN BFL 

You say that now, but just wait till Q4/13 rolls around and BFL shows photoshopped flipped pics of the next gen minin' rigs on their website. You'll be singin' a different tune then while your fatass fingers rest on your keyboard readied to engage the the pre-order button hopin' to be in early queue position.

You'll be braggin' your ass off with, "Look at me! Look at me! Pre-order #1X." Then, all the naysayers will be signing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQsZOQqO6I

[erk]

Friday, July 26, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-27-2013 at 01:19 PM (555 Views)

    Jalapenos shipping through Nov. 14, 2012 paydate

    Little Singles: None shipped (So maybe next week will be Little Singles Week)

    Singles: Shipping June 23, 24, 25, 2012 without PSU's (only 2 orders on June 23 left!)

    MiniRigs: None shipped today.

Singles without PSU starting to move.

[TheJuice]

I feel like I got caught in the middle buying a LS! It would have been much easier if BFL just came out with 1 unit size.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Friday, July 26, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-27-2013 at 01:19 PM (555 Views)

    Jalapenos shipping through Nov. 14, 2012 paydate

    Little Singles: None shipped (So maybe next week will be Little Singles Week)

    Singles: Shipping June 23, 24, 25, 2012 without PSU's (only 2 orders on June 23 left!)

    MiniRigs: None shipped today.

Singles without PSU starting to move.

Friday, July 27, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-27-2013 at 01:19 AM (4 Views)

The warehouse just called and woke me up to say that they ran out of covers for the all the units. Since somebody on BT shown proof that the units perform better without covers, feel free to request your miners sans covers, thus allowing you to receive your money making machine more quickly.

Comments on!

Friday, July 27, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-27-2013 at 09:17 AM (400 Views)

Due to the overwhelming response, all units will not be sent sans covers to expedite the shipping of units.

Josh has informed me that a nontransferable 10% voucher will be sent to all those receiving such units. The three-step redemption process will be pretty straightforward, with the normal expiration date of 30 days.

Now, if you excuse me, I have eggs to collect.

Comments off!

Singles without covers starting to move.

[Bitcoinorama]

How on earth can you not realise you are running low on casing?!!

Do they not perform something as rudimentary as regular inventory stocktaking? Especially after the PSU issue.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

How on earth can you not realise you are running low on casing?!!

Do they not perform something as rudimentary as regular inventory stocktaking? Especially after the PSU issue.

Note to self: They don't use sarcasm in the UK. 

[Mabsark]

How on earth can you not realise you are running low on casing?!!

Do they not perform something as rudimentary as regular inventory stocktaking? Especially after the PSU issue.

That was obviously nonsense he was posting. Everything he posts related to BFL is utter nonsense, so why would you even consider believing anything he says?

[solitude]

You can still get refunds if you call paypal and explain the situation.

Beyond 45 days ain't no thang

Paypal may hate bitcoins, but they sure love making buyers happy 

[erk]

I feel like I got caught in the middle buying a LS! It would have been much easier if BFL just came out with 1 unit size.

Very true, if the had just released the 5GH/s units in volume, kept the other designs on standby for a midlife speed bump, the entire industry would be different, they would have still sold all their chips,  Avalon may have not released a thing, or it wouldn't have been 66GH/s. BFL drove up the net hash years before it needed to be, and cost themselves countless sales in the process. Well it's too late to do anything about it now, the arms race is up to 200GH/s per chip atm.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

How on earth can you not realise you are running low on casing?!!

Do they not perform something as rudimentary as regular inventory stocktaking? Especially after the PSU issue.

That was obviously nonsense he was posting. Everything he posts related to BFL is utter nonsense, so why would you even consider believing anything he says?

Not sure what planet you're from, but your statement is false, for not everything I post related to BFL is utter nonsense.

Take for instance the many times I've brought up the FCC certification issue of which Josh stated was forthcoming in about two weeks back in last November, 2013.

Would you be so kind as to state that that alone is utter nonsense?

I'll make it easy for you, thereby all you'll have to do is copy and paste for your next post: The issue that Bruno keeps bringing up pertaining to the FCC and BFL is utter nonsense.

I bolded it for you in case your eyes are bad.

The following is more utter nonsense from yours truly, a monumental-asshole-at-large:

I am really hoping this is real.  Grammar and spelling aside the jist of the post rings true for me.  The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable for a newb like me!  Add to that the absolute trainwrek PR and customer service shown by the current players and I feel like this isn't the real world anymore but some wild west cowboy shoot out!
 

Hey man, I think you might have a viable lawsuit on your hands if you were forced to purchase something.  Did they use a gun or a knife or something?  Was your family being held hostage until you ordered?  If you were forced into ordering something, it's under duress and you aren't liable for any contract you signed.  You should definitely consult a lawyer, I think you have a case!

BTW - just out of curiosity, which vendor(s) forced you to order?

You sir are a real gem, one of a kind (I can only hope).

Are you often ignorant simply for the sake of being ignorant (I think yes!)

First of all LOL at lawsuits I am not even sure how you managed to get there from my post but ah OK cool!

Perhaps in its literal definition forced was not the perfect word.  I guess me assuming that someone reading the post could get the "jist" of it without translating every word literally we're just slightly optimistic?

Would you prefer if I said something like The current ASIC vendors have decided to only accept full payment pre-orders thus shifting the burden of risk from themselves to the customer?

If you don't want people to take your inflammatory, false/misleading statements at face value, then say what you mean.  You have never been forced to order from any ASIC vendor.  You have always had the option to wait until the products were available for purchase and shipped to you.  Your entire premise is flawed, in so far as the fact that if you pre-ordered, you chose to do so of your own free will.  If the risk that you would be bearing is too much, then do not pre-order. There is absolutely zero requirement for you to do so, thus your statements are false.  You may not like it, true, but you are free not to participate.  Those that are willing to shoulder the risk and those that don't mind the situation will take your place... but there is nothing forcing you to participate at any level.

Yes, of course, attacking you... pointing out that your entire statement is false in a semi-humorous way is attacking you.  You're the only troll here, sir.

Josh's statement above in 20pt bold red font is in reference to what I posted in the OP:

Pre-order funds are not held in escrow so if you aren't comfortable with our using your payment to prepare your product, you may order post production units at the standard price of $599 when they become available.

Thus, Josh lied below:

I wonder if there will still be people saying that Butterflylabs is not a Scam after they fail to ship by 2027.
I guess a year and a few months is not long enough for most folks.

I wonder why there are still idiots saying that BFL is a scam now that they've started shipping.

I wonder why people are to0 lazy to read the posts explaining why they're scammers.

BFL said every month since OCT 2012 that they were on the verge of delivering only to get pre-orders in. The ones that ask for a refund get their money back. Sounds innocent enough right?

Well that funds RnD and that is tax free loans at 0% interest.

Perpetual pre-order/refund setup while knowing that the products were never going to be delivered until a year+ later and still waiting.

Raise prices to scare people from cancelling and after they deliver only a few jalas to get more pre-orders.

Too bad you can't figure this shit out. Idiot

Just because you repeat the same lies over and over MooC Tals doesn't mean people are going to start believing your lies.  But by all means, continue to spam every thread with your fantasies.

Note, Josh is referencing the entire post he quoted as a lie, including the one I highlighted in yellow.

Further proof that BF Labs Inc. lied about not using any pre-order moneys for the development of their company.

Feel free to poke holes in the above, Josh!

[Inaba]

I feel like I got caught in the middle buying a LS! It would have been much easier if BFL just came out with 1 unit size.

Very true, if the had just released the 5GH/s units in volume, kept the other designs on standby for a midlife speed bump, the entire industry would be different, they would have still sold all their chips,  Avalon may have not released a thing, or it wouldn't have been 66GH/s. BFL drove up the net hash years before it needed to be, and cost themselves countless sales in the process. Well it's too late to do anything about it now, the arms race is up to 200GH/s per chip atm.

No, you can blame that on Tom.  He's the one who posted complete nonsense as far as specs go.  There was nothing for BFL to do except match his specs.  You'll notice that after that speed bump, I posted that we'd match any SHIPPING device, which is what I should have done from the start, but we'd already raised the specs so it was too late.

Similar things are happening now with the new ASIC providers, but fortunately there are actually chips in the field this time around, so no matter what you announce as specs, a working chip today is vastly superior to a non-existent chip tomorrow. 

[alfabitcoin]

May I ask what is current bigest problem in delivery? Production, PCB and other components, manpower or what?

[Xian01]

May I ask what is current bigest problem in delivery? Production, PCB and other components, manpower or what?

 In my humble opinion, all of the above with a liberal sprinkling of Dunning-Kruger.

[Loredo]

No, you can blame that on Tom.  He's the one who posted complete nonsense as far as specs go.  There was nothing for BFL to do except match his specs.  You'll notice that after that speed bump, I posted that we'd match any SHIPPING device, which is what I should have done from the start, but we'd already raised the specs so it was too late.

I have to say, this statement makes more sense to me than anything I've read, from either side in this trainwreck. 

When marketing runs ahead of engineering, the vacuum formed will be filled with shit.

[Bitcoinorama]

I feel like I got caught in the middle buying a LS! It would have been much easier if BFL just came out with 1 unit size.

Very true, if the had just released the 5GH/s units in volume, kept the other designs on standby for a midlife speed bump, the entire industry would be different, they would have still sold all their chips,  Avalon may have not released a thing, or it wouldn't have been 66GH/s. BFL drove up the net hash years before it needed to be, and cost themselves countless sales in the process. Well it's too late to do anything about it now, the arms race is up to 200GH/s per chip atm.

No, you can blame that on Tom.  He's the one who posted complete nonsense as far as specs go.  There was nothing for BFL to do except match his specs.  You'll notice that after that speed bump, I posted that we'd match any SHIPPING device, which is what I should have done from the start, but we'd already raised the specs so it was too late.

Similar things are happening now with the new ASIC providers, but fortunately there are actually chips in the field this time around, so no matter what you announce as specs, a working chip today is vastly superior to a non-existent chip tomorrow.  

That's not entirely true is it. The majority of chips 'available today' are not available to purchase and receive within a similar time period. Most are merely fulfilling pre-orders taken some time back. Aside ASICminer who grossly overcharge for the luxury of having their tech now are the only company with the means to offer such devices...

[erk]

I feel like I got caught in the middle buying a LS! It would have been much easier if BFL just came out with 1 unit size.

Very true, if the had just released the 5GH/s units in volume, kept the other designs on standby for a midlife speed bump, the entire industry would be different, they would have still sold all their chips,  Avalon may have not released a thing, or it wouldn't have been 66GH/s. BFL drove up the net hash years before it needed to be, and cost themselves countless sales in the process. Well it's too late to do anything about it now, the arms race is up to 200GH/s per chip atm.

No, you can blame that on Tom.  He's the one who posted complete nonsense as far as specs go.  There was nothing for BFL to do except match his specs.  You'll notice that after that speed bump, I posted that we'd match any SHIPPING device, which is what I should have done from the start, but we'd already raised the specs so it was too late.

Similar things are happening now with the new ASIC providers, but fortunately there are actually chips in the field this time around, so no matter what you announce as specs, a working chip today is vastly superior to a non-existent chip tomorrow.  

I don't know the Tom story. or who Tom is, you might want to elaborate or post a link if it's to be found elsewhere. I only first heard about BFL back in March.

[Inaba]

I feel like I got caught in the middle buying a LS! It would have been much easier if BFL just came out with 1 unit size.

Very true, if the had just released the 5GH/s units in volume, kept the other designs on standby for a midlife speed bump, the entire industry would be different, they would have still sold all their chips,  Avalon may have not released a thing, or it wouldn't have been 66GH/s. BFL drove up the net hash years before it needed to be, and cost themselves countless sales in the process. Well it's too late to do anything about it now, the arms race is up to 200GH/s per chip atm.

No, you can blame that on Tom.  He's the one who posted complete nonsense as far as specs go.  There was nothing for BFL to do except match his specs.  You'll notice that after that speed bump, I posted that we'd match any SHIPPING device, which is what I should have done from the start, but we'd already raised the specs so it was too late.

Similar things are happening now with the new ASIC providers, but fortunately there are actually chips in the field this time around, so no matter what you announce as specs, a working chip today is vastly superior to a non-existent chip tomorrow.  

That's not entirely true is it. The majority of chips 'available today' are not available to purchase and receive within a similar time period. Most are merely fulfilling pre-orders taken some time back. Aside ASICminer who grossly overcharge for the luxury of having their tech now are the only company with the means to offer such devices...

I'm not sure where you are getting your data, but BFL is the only company shipping ASIC's in any meaningful quantity and hashrate at the moment and looks to be for the next month if you believe any of the estimates out there (which are, frankly, quite unlikely to come to pass), or for the next few months once reality catches up with many of the clones and new vendors.  This is just speculation of my part, of course, but the facts at the moment are BFL is the only ASIC company shipping consumer devices in any reasonable quantity/hashrate.  If the BE's drop to .6 BTC, they might see a return on their investment, but I doubt it even then.

[Syke]

How on earth can you not realise you are running low on casing?!!

Do they not perform something as rudimentary as regular inventory stocktaking? Especially after the PSU issue.

Their Chief Operating Officer is too busy trolling these forums to do his actual job. They're also waiting for new orders to come in so that they'll have funds to purchase parts for the orders placed a year ago. All the refunds from being so late are a huge drain on their cash flow.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm not sure where you are getting your data, but BFL is the only company shipping ASIC's in any meaningful quantity and hashrate at the moment and looks to be for the next month if you believe any of the estimates out there (which are, frankly, quite unlikely to come to pass), or for the next few months once reality catches up with many of the clones and new vendors.  This is just speculation of my part, of course, but the facts at the moment are BFL is the only ASIC company shipping consumer devices in any reasonable quantity/hashrate.  If the BE's drop to .6 BTC, they might see a return on their investment, but I doubt it even then.

Either I'm an idiot or Josh is speaking in riddles again.

This is just speculation of my part, of course,...

Since the phrase is in the second sentence, it can't be in reference to the first that has...

(which are, frankly, quite unlikely to come to pass)

And it can't be in reference to the very sentence it's in because directly thereafter we read...

but the facts at the moment are...

Looks to me somebody needs a refresher course in paragraph structure. We all have an excuse when we pen incorrectly because we are...wait for...monumental assholes.

Josh, please don't comment on this post unless you're prepare to answer the following simple question: What's the status of the FCC certification process?

[dominicus]

May I ask what is current bigest problem in delivery? Production, PCB and other components, manpower or what?

 In my humble opinion, all of the above with a liberal sprinkling of Dunning-Kruger.

A mix of the following:
-higher-than-expected scrap, rework, testing, resulting in unfavorable production costs,
-overspending in development of other products with no prospects of near-term sales,
-lack of technical competence
-lack of organizational focus,
-inability or unwillingness to improve current designs,
-lack or inadequate production planning,
-overspending in marketing,
-overspending in executive compensation, perks, travel,
-overspending in discretionary fluff not contributing to operations,

Causing a lack of cash available for operations, whose consequences are:
-shortage of raw materials as unpaid suppliers suspend deliveries,
-shortage of good components,
-inability to hire, retain, or train factory staff
-degraded customer service as the installed-base expands
-inability to expand current operations (i.e. factory equipment, space, warehouse)

This, in turn, shows up externally in a couple key ways:
-belligerent customer interactions
-order cancellations
-shipment delays

[Phinnaeus Gage]

May I ask what is current bigest problem in delivery? Production, PCB and other components, manpower or what?

 In my humble opinion, all of the above with a liberal sprinkling of Dunning-Kruger.

A mix of the following:
-higher-than-expected scrap, rework, testing, resulting in unfavorable production costs,
-overspending in development of other products with no prospects of near-term sales,
-lack of technical competence
-lack of organizational focus,
-inability or unwillingness to improve current designs,
-lack or inadequate production planning,
-overspending in marketing,
-overspending in executive compensation, perks, travel,
-overspending in discretionary fluff not contributing to operations,

Causing a lack of cash available for operations, whose consequences are:
-shortage of raw materials as unpaid suppliers suspend deliveries,
-shortage of good components,
-inability to hire, retain, or train factory staff
-degraded customer service as the installed-base expands
-inability to expand current operations (i.e. factory equipment, space, warehouse)

This, in turn, shows up externally in a couple key ways:
-belligerent customer interactions
-order cancellations
-shipment delays

And we only have myself and a handful of über-monumental assholes to blame.

Well, the joke's on me, I'm off to join the circus
Oh, Mr. Barnum, save a place for me
Shoot me out of a cannon, I don't care
Let the people point at me and stare
I'll tell the world that I sucked off Sonny V
And those mean bitcoiners made a cryin' clown outta me

[Syke]

I'm not sure where you are getting your data, but BFL is the only company shipping ASIC's in any meaningful quantity and hashrate at the moment

Keep your fingers in your ears and chant, "Avalon is not shipping. Avalon is not shipping." That should make it true.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm not sure where you are getting your data, but BFL is the only company shipping ASIC's in any meaningful quantity and hashrate at the moment

Keep your fingers in your ears and chant, "Avalon is not shipping. Avalon is not shipping." That should make it true.

You know damn well Josh is going to come back at you, highlighting the word "meaningful" don't you? His statement has to be true because a reporter came out and penned an article that BFL is truly in full production mode, assembling and shipping 300 units a day, of which is really 400 a day as I've so proven in another thread.

Josh will even go as far as to state that Avalon doesn't even take the time to even answer simple question when asked, all things being even.

[Bitcoinorama]

I feel like I got caught in the middle buying a LS! It would have been much easier if BFL just came out with 1 unit size.

Very true, if the had just released the 5GH/s units in volume, kept the other designs on standby for a midlife speed bump, the entire industry would be different, they would have still sold all their chips,  Avalon may have not released a thing, or it wouldn't have been 66GH/s. BFL drove up the net hash years before it needed to be, and cost themselves countless sales in the process. Well it's too late to do anything about it now, the arms race is up to 200GH/s per chip atm.

No, you can blame that on Tom.  He's the one who posted complete nonsense as far as specs go.  There was nothing for BFL to do except match his specs.  You'll notice that after that speed bump, I posted that we'd match any SHIPPING device, which is what I should have done from the start, but we'd already raised the specs so it was too late.

Similar things are happening now with the new ASIC providers, but fortunately there are actually chips in the field this time around, so no matter what you announce as specs, a working chip today is vastly superior to a non-existent chip tomorrow.  

That's not entirely true is it. The majority of chips 'available today' are not available to purchase and receive within a similar time period. Most are merely fulfilling pre-orders taken some time back. Aside ASICminer who grossly overcharge for the luxury of having their tech now are the only company with the means to offer such devices...

I'm not sure where you are getting your data, but BFL is the only company shipping ASIC's in any meaningful quantity and hashrate at the moment and looks to be for the next month if you believe any of the estimates out there (which are, frankly, quite unlikely to come to pass), or for the next few months once reality catches up with many of the clones and new vendors.  This is just speculation of my part, of course, but the facts at the moment are BFL is the only ASIC company shipping consumer devices in any reasonable quantity/hashrate.  If the BE's drop to .6 BTC, they might see a return on their investment, but I doubt it even then.

But with all due respect you stated a working chip today, but the timeframe from order to delivery, especially with respect to Butterfly Labs is no where near immediate. By your own estimation you claim a two month timeframe to honour the sale, within that time there is significant competition also claiming to fulfil orders made today...

[k9quaint]

No, you can blame that on Tom.  He's the one who posted complete nonsense as far as specs go.  There was nothing for BFL to do except match his specs. 

Is this Josh admitting that BFL had to post complete nonsense for specs? /giggle
So far BFL has shipped a very small part of the total hashrate. Most of their pre-order/investment hashrate was in singles and mini-rigs, yet they can't ship past the first days worth of orders. That leaves several hundred Jalapenos shipped and that is just noise in a ~250,000 GH/s bitcoin network.

Avalon and ASICMiner currently have commanding leads in market share, but Bitfury and KNCMiner might give them a run for their money.
The good news is BFL customers who paid with PayPal are getting refunds after the 45 day window, so at least PayPal is mitigating the damage BFL has done to it's customer base. If you paid with BTC, you will have to go the long road via the FTC.

[Inaba]

But with all due respect you stated a working chip today, but the timeframe from order to delivery, especially with respect to Butterfly Labs is no where near immediate. By your own estimation you claim a two month timeframe to honour the sale, within that time there is significant competition also claiming to fulfil orders made today...

So you're saying that KnC, Hsahfast, etc.. have a chip in the field that they are shipping to customers?  Not last I checked.  It doesn't matter when the shipping date is, they have no working chip.  You can place an order with them, but you have no guarantee you'll get a working chip.  There are only three working chips at the moment (4 if you want to count Bitfury's new chip, but it's not shipped yet, so it's still a bit questionable, but of the sake of argument, we'll include them).

[Loredo]

[Deleted]

The formatting was all screwed up, and what I posted has been posted many times before.  (Where's the beat a dead horse gif when you need one?)

[Inaba]

Who has shipped in the past?  I'm not aware of a single shipped ASIC beyond ASICminer, Avalon and BFL.  Who am I missing? 

You can say it's disingenuous since it means nothing to a potential buyer, but the same can be said for every other vendor.  My point is, ordering from KnC, et al is more risky, since you don't even know if they have a working chip.  Ordering from Avalon or BFL, it may take you some time to get the chips, but at least you know you'll actually get a working chip. 

[jspielberg]

But with all due respect you stated a working chip today, but the timeframe from order to delivery, especially with respect to Butterfly Labs is no where near immediate. By your own estimation you claim AT BEST a two month timeframe to honour the sale, within that time there is significant competition also claiming to fulfill orders made today...

Clarified that so folks don't get the wrong impression.

Personally, for my BTC purchase, I think Bitfury, and KNC in that order have the best chances of delivering on time (for a purchase today).  I am starting to think that IPO's are pretty much the best/only model for asic manufacturers that works these days.  It has the owners answerable to the shareholders at least, and puts pressure on a timely product.  I am not sure exactly who the owners are responsible to once the pre-order funds have been collected to perform on schedule.  I think 20% upfront -> 80% on delivery pre-buy could put some pressure on manufacturers as well, but there doesn't seem to be much appetite for those kinds of structures.

[one4many]

[.... some stuff deleted ... irrelevant to my question ...]
..., but the facts at the moment are BFL is the only ASIC company shipping consumer devices in any reasonable quantity/hashrate.  If the BE's drop to .6 BTC, they might see a return on their investment, but I doubt it even then.

Yepp ... you are shipping ... a huge backlog ... but shipping at last ...
Anyhow .. BE's dropped to 0.45-0.55 BTC, I'm not sure if you are aware of it, see:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263577.0 (actually shipping tomorrow  ) and
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263587.0

So when is the next price drop at BFL going to happen?  

Thx

[dwdoc]

Who has shipped in the past?  I'm not aware of a single shipped ASIC beyond ASICminer, Avalon and BFL.  Who am I missing? 

You can say it's disingenuous since it means nothing to a potential buyer, but the same can be said for every other vendor.  My point is, ordering from KnC, et al is more risky, since you don't even know if they have a working chip.  Ordering from Avalon or BFL, it may take you some time to get the chips, but at least you know you'll actually get a working chip. 

100TH and Metabank have announced they are getting their bitfury chip shipments this week.
Avalon has delivered its first bulk chip orders and BFL has delivered sample chips in a timely fashion to those of us ordering bulk chips.
On the other hand, we haven't even seen a die shot or heard about a tape-out date from KNCminer.

[geofflosophy]

Who has shipped in the past?  I'm not aware of a single shipped ASIC beyond ASICminer, Avalon and BFL.  Who am I missing? 

You can say it's disingenuous since it means nothing to a potential buyer, but the same can be said for every other vendor.  My point is, ordering from KnC, et al is more risky, since you don't even know if they have a working chip.  Ordering from Avalon or BFL, it may take you some time to get the chips, but at least you know you'll actually get a working chip. 

100TH and Metabank have announced they are getting their bitfury chip shipments this week.
Avalon has delivered its first bulk chip orders and BFL has delivered sample chips in a timely fashion to those of us ordering bulk chips.
On the other hand, we haven't even seen a die shot or heard about a tape-out date from KNCminer.

KnC will deliver in Steptember, at least for their earliest customers like CloudHashing. They are taking a strategy of under-promising and over-producing, and at least part of that is that Swedish laws would skewer them for pulling a BFL.

[Inaba]

So again... Only Avalon, BFL and ASICminer are shipping, like I said. 3 vendors with working chips in the field.

[joeventura]

So again... Only Avalon, BFL and ASICminer are shipping, like I said. 3 vendors with working chips in the field.

So again... Only Avalon and ASICminer are shipping in volume.

Being on Day 1 of orders for 67 days does not count as shipping.  13 months 5 days backlogged.

ASICMiner shipping same week.

Even Avalon being behind as far as they are, are in better shape.

[trichome]

So again... Only Avalon, BFL and ASICminer are shipping, like I said. 3 vendors with working chips in the field.

So again... Only Avalon and ASICminer are shipping in volume.

Being on Day 1 of orders for 67 days does not count as shipping.  13 months 5 days backlogged.

ASICMiner shipping same week.

Even Avalon being behind as far as they are, are in better shape.

Exactly what i thought when josh(inaba) from bfl just wrote that BFL is shipping.  Shipping units from your first week of pre-orders that started over a year ago does not count as shipping you can say trickling out!!!!!

So glad paypal is awesome and forced a refund for me and got me my money back!!!

[jordaninthesky]

We can tell that out of all the "BFL" threads, Josh is paying most attention to this one.  Obviously this brings revenue from the automated investing machines.  For people who are paying attention; this is your cue.

[k9quaint]

So again... Only Avalon, BFL and ASICminer are shipping, like I said. 3 vendors with working chips in the field.

So again... Only Avalon and ASICminer are shipping in volume.

Being on Day 1 of orders for 67 days does not count as shipping.  13 months 5 days backlogged.

ASICMiner shipping same week.

Even Avalon being behind as far as they are, are in better shape.

Exactly what i thought when josh(inaba) from bfl just wrote that BFL is shipping.  Shipping units from your first week of pre-orders that started over a year ago does not count as shipping you can say trickling out!!!!!

So glad paypal is awesome and forced a refund for me and got me my money back!!!

Oh, BFL is shipping alright. But they are using this "ship":

Thus you have to wait 6 months to get your product.

Did BFL just become a verb?
I hope I don't get BFL'ed on the stuff I just ordered online!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The 22 wings shipping vessel is not the problem.



It's BFL's COO...

[ultrix]

So again... Only Avalon, BFL and ASICminer are shipping, like I said. 3 vendors with working chips in the field.

And Bitfury.

[scambutterflylabs]

quote BFL_Josh

"We are working to solve the customer service issue, but unfortunately it's not as easy as waving a magic wand and everything is better. There are many factors that have to be juggled and there are only so many man hours available."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3900-bfl-told-me-they-wont-honor-their-ship-pay-date-sequence-promise-3.html#post49733

[Phinnaeus Gage]

quote BFL_Josh

"We are working to solve the customer service issue, but unfortunately it's not as easy as waving a magic wand and everything is better. There are many factors that have to be juggled and there are only so many man hours available."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3900-bfl-told-me-they-wont-honor-their-ship-pay-date-sequence-promise-3.html#post49733

You are fuckin' kiddin' me! How the fuck can there be one iota of a problem with the CS department when a half dozen or more people were hired on months ago to add to the already 4-6 on hand led by none other that Granny Drake, the person who recently claimed that her and Josh are of equal status at Planet BFL?

By sister handles 300 emails a day along with her other duties, and you telling me that 10 people can't handle 100 emails each per day? That equals to >$5,000/wk in payroll to perform a job that's not being performed properly.

That only means one thing: Minecraft and blowjobs are taking up way too much time at BFL. I suggest ending the Minecraft sessions.

Before hitting the post button, something else just occurred to me. If Josh didn't spend so much time penning smack on this forum, he could easily allocate that time to address emails and other CS duties.

Then again, why the fuck am I giving advice to them fuckturds? The last suggestion I can them, they used without even giving me a thank you.

What suggestion was that you ask? I suggested that instead of using the swarm of locusts to deliver all them packages to the USPS once in full production, simply call them and they will pick up. I'm sure Sonny let Josh blow him twice that day when he ran into Sonny's office to share with him his great revelation.

It must be nice to get blowjobs while I get it stuck up my monumental asshole sans lube.

[dominicus]

The 5 stages of loss/grief: Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.

This thread just got me into the 4th stage.

Looking forward to acceptance.

[PuertoLibre]

So again... Only Avalon, BFL and ASICminer are shipping, like I said. 3 vendors with working chips in the field.

Translated (my interpretation):

"I am worried about these folks. Please, do not buy the KNC devices. We can't do low nm chips at a time like this."

and

"Look, we are charging 60k+ for our mini-rig. KNC, they are charging close to a third of that. Pretty please, don't buy from them! <Insert mind numbing nonsense here>"

[PuertoLibre]

Remember children,



If you throw enough money at a problem...eventually even crippled butterflies can swim!

[HellDiverUK]

That only means one thing: Minecraft and blowjobs are taking up way too much time at BFL. I suggest ending the Minecraft sessions.

That really made me LOL.   

[Threader]

So again... Only Avalon, BFL and ASICminer are shipping, like I said. 3 vendors with working chips in the field.

BFL is to shipping product like Bernie Madoff is to refunding investors.

The majority of both sets of clients will NEVER see ROI

[mezzomix]

Great, BFL ist shipping day one singles since how many weeks now?! Thank you Josh, I paid 200 BTC for my single - do you really think this machine will ever break even? How many months should I expect until my order from the first week is shipped?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Great, BFL ist shipping day one singles since how many weeks now?! Thank you Josh, I paid 200 BTC for my single - do you really think this machine will ever break even? How many months should I expect until my order from the first week is shipped?

Boy, you're in for it now!

[Mabsark]

For homework, you children should calculate the hashing power AM and Avalon are responsible for bringing online so far. Add those 2 values together and add 20 Th/s (the network hash rate at the beginning of the year), then subtract this new value from the current network hash rate. You will have a number representing the hashing power brought online by everyone but AM and Avalon. Explain where this hashing power came from if not BFL.

[k9quaint]

For homework, you children should calculate the hashing power AM and Avalon are responsible for bringing online so far. Add those 2 values together and add 20 Th/s (the network hash rate at the beginning of the year), then subtract this new value from the current network hash rate. You will have a number representing the hashing power brought online by everyone but AM and Avalon. Explain where this hashing power came from if not BFL.

The problem is that both ASICMiner and Avalon are opaque. We only know about units shipped in the public sale batches from Avalon, and the public farm ASICMiner reports on. Even so, with the first 2 batches from Avalon running at ~60TH (900 x 65GH/s) and batch 3 at 40TH/s (600x65GH/s) and ASICMiner public mine running at ~40TH/s that is almost 2/3rds of the network. ASICMiner sells blades to private investors as well and there is no way to know how many they made or sold. Legacy FPGAs & GPUs probably still account for between 10-20TH/s. The 30day estimate puts the network hashrate at 240TH/s

Back of the envelope says:
Avalon batches account for 100TH/s
ASICMiner public mine accounts for 40TH/s
FPGAs + GPUs 15TH/s (assuming a lot of hash power has left for Litecoin)
ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades (10-13GH/s each ) & USB sticks + BFL = 85TH/s (85+100+40+15 = 240)

ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades have been shipping in bulk since early May.
BFL has been shipping Jalapenos since late April and Singles since June.
There is no way to know how much either company has shipped.

Edit: I fixed some bad math on my part

[Mabsark]

For homework, you children should calculate the hashing power AM and Avalon are responsible for bringing online so far. Add those 2 values together and add 20 Th/s (the network hash rate at the beginning of the year), then subtract this new value from the current network hash rate. You will have a number representing the hashing power brought online by everyone but AM and Avalon. Explain where this hashing power came from if not BFL.

The problem is that both ASICMiner and Avalon are opaque. We only know about units shipped in the public sale batches from Avalon, and the public farm ASICMiner reports on. Even so, with the first 2 batches from Avalon running at ~60TH (900 x 65GH/s) and batch 3 at 40TH/s (600x65GH/s) and ASICMiner public mine running at ~40TH/s that is almost 2/3rds of the network. ASICMiner sells blades to private investors as well and there is no way to know how many they made or sold. Legacy FPGAs & GPUs probably still account for between 10-20TH/s. The 30day estimate puts the network hashrate at 240TH/s

Back of the envelope says:
Avalon batches account for 100TH/s
ASICMiner public mine accounts for 40TH/s
FPGAs + GPUs 15TH/s (assuming a lot of hash power has left for Litecoin)
ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades (10-13GH/s each ) & USB sticks + BFL = 125TH/s

ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades have been shipping in bulk since early May.
BFL has been shipping Jalapenos since late April and Singles since June.
There is no way to know how much either company has shipped.

Batch 3 Avalons have only just started shipping and some people still haven't received batch 2 orders yet. It would be more reasonable to assume that 900 units have shipped rather than 1500.

AM recently released a financial report. It included the following:

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC

[k9quaint]

For homework, you children should calculate the hashing power AM and Avalon are responsible for bringing online so far. Add those 2 values together and add 20 Th/s (the network hash rate at the beginning of the year), then subtract this new value from the current network hash rate. You will have a number representing the hashing power brought online by everyone but AM and Avalon. Explain where this hashing power came from if not BFL.

The problem is that both ASICMiner and Avalon are opaque. We only know about units shipped in the public sale batches from Avalon, and the public farm ASICMiner reports on. Even so, with the first 2 batches from Avalon running at ~60TH (900 x 65GH/s) and batch 3 at 40TH/s (600x65GH/s) and ASICMiner public mine running at ~40TH/s that is almost 2/3rds of the network. ASICMiner sells blades to private investors as well and there is no way to know how many they made or sold. Legacy FPGAs & GPUs probably still account for between 10-20TH/s. The 30day estimate puts the network hashrate at 240TH/s

Back of the envelope says:
Avalon batches account for 100TH/s
ASICMiner public mine accounts for 40TH/s
FPGAs + GPUs 15TH/s (assuming a lot of hash power has left for Litecoin)
ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades (10-13GH/s each ) & USB sticks + BFL = 85TH/s

ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades have been shipping in bulk since early May.
BFL has been shipping Jalapenos since late April and Singles since June.
There is no way to know how much either company has shipped.

Batch 3 Avalons have only just started shipping and some people still haven't received batch orders yet. It would be more reasonable to assume that 900 units have shipped rather than 1500.

First, I got my math wrong:
ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades (10-13GH/s each ) & USB sticks + BFL = 85TH/s

The first reported (in English on these forums) batch 3 unit in hand was over a week and a half ago. We don't know how many batch 3 units were shipped to destinations in China which would have arrived much sooner (no 2-3 week boat ride, no customs, etc). Large mining operations in China could have picked up the units themselves from the factory for even earlier deployment, which would be in their best interest to do.

AM recently released a financial report. It included the following:

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC

If we assume it is a gross figure, then they auctioned off at least 600 blades for between 45-50BTC.
USB is a bit trickier since they have two price points. Assuming that the batches were equal size, then we have around 24,000 USB miners shipped. If that income is all from the first sales point, then only about 18,000 were shipped.
So, (assuming gross figures) at least 7.8 TH/s from blade auctions and 6-10 TH/s from USB miners.

We can only estimate lower bounds of sales by ASICMiner and Avalon. If either ASICMiner or Avalon (or both) licensed their designs to mining concerns and sold them chips, then there could be significant clone installations out there by now. If the ASICMiner IP was in a different company, those licensing deals would not be reported. Avalon doesn't have any sort of financial reporting, and neither does BFL.

If I had to guess, I would say by now BFL has shipped about 800 singles (of the 60 GH/s variety) and at least 2000 Jalapeno's by now. That puts them around about 60 TH/s. Tack on the 8 mini-rigs known of, and we can say at least 65 TH/s total. That seems reasonable given the rest of the numbers.
So that is 3 days of singles and 7 days of Jalapeno's. If they are shipping 300 units a day, what did they do for the other 50 work days?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

For homework, you children should calculate the hashing power AM and Avalon are responsible for bringing online so far. Add those 2 values together and add 20 Th/s (the network hash rate at the beginning of the year), then subtract this new value from the current network hash rate. You will have a number representing the hashing power brought online by everyone but AM and Avalon. Explain where this hashing power came from if not BFL.

The problem is that both ASICMiner and Avalon are opaque. We only know about units shipped in the public sale batches from Avalon, and the public farm ASICMiner reports on. Even so, with the first 2 batches from Avalon running at ~60TH (900 x 65GH/s) and batch 3 at 40TH/s (600x65GH/s) and ASICMiner public mine running at ~40TH/s that is almost 2/3rds of the network. ASICMiner sells blades to private investors as well and there is no way to know how many they made or sold. Legacy FPGAs & GPUs probably still account for between 10-20TH/s. The 30day estimate puts the network hashrate at 240TH/s

Back of the envelope says:
Avalon batches account for 100TH/s
ASICMiner public mine accounts for 40TH/s
FPGAs + GPUs 15TH/s (assuming a lot of hash power has left for Litecoin)
ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades (10-13GH/s each ) & USB sticks + BFL = 85TH/s

ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades have been shipping in bulk since early May.
BFL has been shipping Jalapenos since late April and Singles since June.
There is no way to know how much either company has shipped.

Batch 3 Avalons have only just started shipping and some people still haven't received batch orders yet. It would be more reasonable to assume that 900 units have shipped rather than 1500.

First, I got my math wrong:
ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades (10-13GH/s each ) & USB sticks + BFL = 85TH/s

The first reported (in English on these forums) batch 3 unit in hand was over a week and a half ago. We don't know how many batch 3 units were shipped to destinations in China which would have arrived much sooner (no 2-3 week boat ride, no customs, etc). Large mining operations in China could have picked up the units themselves from the factory for even earlier deployment, which would be in their best interest to do.

AM recently released a financial report. It included the following:

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC

If we assume it is a gross figure, then they auctioned off at least 600 blades for between 45-50BTC.
USB is a bit trickier since they have two price points. Assuming that the batches were equal size, then we have around 24,000 USB miners shipped. If that income is all from the first sales point, then only about 18,000 were shipped.
So, (assuming gross figures) at least 7.8 TH/s from blade auctions and 6-10 TH/s from USB miners.

We can only estimate lower bounds of sales by ASICMiner and Avalon. If either ASICMiner or Avalon (or both) licensed their designs to mining concerns and sold them chips, then there could be significant clone installations out there by now. If the ASICMiner IP was in a different company, those licensing deals would not be reported. Avalon doesn't have any sort of financial reporting, and neither does BFL.

If I had to guess, I would say by now BFL has shipped about 800 singles (of the 60 GH/s variety) and at least 2000 Jalapeno's by now. That puts them around about 60 TH/s. Tack on the 8 mini-rigs known of, and we can say at least 65 TH/s total. That seems reasonable given the rest of the numbers.
So that is 3 days of singles and 7 days of Jalapeno's. If they are shipping 300 units a day, what did they do for the other 50 work days?

WTF! If Josh said 300 or 400 a day were assembled then shipped since July 4, 2013, who the fuck are you to call out an outstanding member of BitcoinTalk by implying he's a liar? Please check your figures again, then come back here and apology to the only honest person on this forum, namely Josh Ryan Zerlan, COO of BF Labs Inc. (Butterfly Labs), located at 10770 El Monte, Leawood, KS 66211, whose president is Sonny Vleisides, who's still on probation for fleecing the elderly with his lottery scam, but is on record in stating that he changed his ways, unlike his real Daddy-O, James Ray Houston, the Silver Kind of Nevada and founder of Laissez Faire City in Costa Rica.

Full Disclosure: I am not versed in keyword spamming!

[Flying Hellfish]

... what did they do for the other 50 work days?

Hookers and Blow?

[Mabsark]

Since I know how bad you children are at maths, I will give you a hand.

USB devices initially cost 1.99 BTC and were later reduced to 0.99 BTC. With discount for bulk orders, the lowest price was 0.89 BTC. If every USB device sold at 1.99 BTC, then that's 18,856 units. If every USB device sold at 0.89 BTC, then that's 42,161 units. At 336 Mh/s per unit, USB Block Erupters make up between 6.336 Th/s and 14.166 Th/s.

There were 3 auctions for blades.

The first auction sold 2 for 76 BTC and 8 for 75 BTC. That's a total of 10 for 752 BTC.

The second auction sold 50 for a total of 2578 BTC.

The third auction sold 180 blades at a fixed price of 49.99 BTC each for a total of 8,998.2 BTC

So, 240 Blades were sold in the 3 auctions for a total of 12,328.2 BTC. By subtracting this value from the Blade Sales Income value, we get the following:

29,594.75 - 12,328.2 = 17,266.55 BTC

which is the amount of income from regular sales, with Blades costing 49.99 each or 47.99 with bulk discount. If every Blade sold at 49.99 BTC, then that's 345 units. If every Blade sold at 47.99 BTC, then that's 359 units. That puts the total number of Blades sold between 605 and 619 units. At 10.752 Gh/s per unit and 619 units, the total hashing power is 6.655 Th/s.

The total hashing power from USB BEs and Blades combined is between 12.991 Th/s and 20.821 Th/s. With the mining operation at 40 Th/s, AM have brought online about 60 Th/s.

Explain the remaining network hash rate assuming between 900 and 1500 Avalons have also shipped.

[Ytterbium]

For those that don't know, Tom is the guy from bASIC who took a ton of pre-orders for an ASIC and then delivered nothing - although he made an effort to refund people in BTC, I think. I don't know how that turned out.

I'm not sure where you are getting your data, but BFL is the only company shipping ASIC's in any meaningful quantity and hashrate at the moment and looks to be for the next month if you believe any of the estimates out there (which are, frankly, quite unlikely to come to pass), or for the next few months once reality catches up with many of the clones and new vendors.  This is just speculation of my part, of course, but the facts at the moment are BFL is the only ASIC company shipping consumer devices in any reasonable quantity/hashrate.  If the BE's drop to .6 BTC, they might see a return on their investment, but I doubt it even then.

Avalon has shipped two batches and at least one order of 10k chips. And they're in the middle of shipping batch 3. It's true that some people are complaining but most people got their units. 

Batch 1 and 2 combined are 72Thash (3 modules can easily reach 80Ghash). That's 30% of the network right there.  Combined with ASICMiners 16% (based on the blocks in the last 24h) that's about 47% of the network. Each 10k chip order from Avalon is 3Thash, or about 1% of the current network, and we don't know how many they've sold.  Bitfury is supposed to be shipping at this point as well.  Their first run of chips was for "July delivery", and people have tested sample chips.

So again... Only Avalon, BFL and ASICminer are shipping, like I said. 3 vendors with working chips in the field.

You said you were the only company shipping "in any meaningful quantity and hashrate", clearly that's not the case and there's no reason to think bitfury won't be able to ship.

[erk]

F

You said you were the only company shipping "in any meaningful quantity and hashrate", clearly that's not the case and there's no reason to think bitfury won't be able to ship.

He did say for the next month if you read the post properly.

[Ytterbium]

You said you were the only company shipping "in any meaningful quantity and hashrate", clearly that's not the case and there's no reason to think bitfury won't be able to ship.

He did say for the next month if you read the post properly.

Yes, and I responded that Avalon and ASICMiner have shipped in quantity already. Next month will be even worse if bitfury ships their orders no time. If that doesn't happen, their claim to be the only company shipping a major amount of units is still incorrect.

[erk]

You said you were the only company shipping "in any meaningful quantity and hashrate", clearly that's not the case and there's no reason to think bitfury won't be able to ship.

He did say for the next month if you read the post properly.

Yes, and I responded that Avalon and ASICMiner have shipped in quantity already. Next month will be even worse if bitfury ships their orders no time. If that doesn't happen, their claim to be the only company shipping a major amount of units is still incorrect.

Who else is shipping major amounts in the next month? Block Erupters?

[Mabsark]

It's probably fair to attribute 140 Th/s to AM and Avalon and with the network hash rate at around 250 Th/s, that leaves 110 Th/s to account for.

[Ytterbium]

Who else is shipping major amounts in the next month? Block Erupters?

Bitfury.  As you can see here they offer 3,000 chip reels for "July Delivery", and 400Ghash units for "August Delivery".  Presumably the people who get their chips will have to spend some of their time putting them on boards. The chips are at least 2.8Ghash a piece, so 3k would be 8.4Thash.

How many have they sold? We have no idea. We have no idea how many pre-orders KnC has taken and we don't know how many chips HashFast or BTC Garden is going to make. We don't know if anyone else has chips and hasn't bothered to tell us because they're using them to mine for themselves.

Simply attributing everything that hasn't been publicly announced as being from Avalon or ASICMiner as being done by BFL chips is pretty rich. Especially when BFL themselves haven't said how much hashrate they've shipped.  If BFL isn't publicly announcing it, why would you expect every other company to do so?

[scambutterflylabs]

quote:

BFL_Jody  , 07-29-2013 at 09:50 PM

Jalapenos: None shipped today

Little Singles: One shipped today (okay I gave you an actual count!)

Singles: The bulk of our orders shipped today were Singles from pay dates 6/23, 6/24 and 6/25

MiniRigs: None shipped today

I have sent all orders to production from 6/23/2012 except one who is waiting for psu's.

I only have 2 orders left from 6/24 and 4 from 6/25. So by tomorrow the orders in production should be shipped.

Tonight I am sending Little Singles to production, so a whole different group of people can cry tomorrow.

We are NOT holding up shipping because we lack PSU's for Singles. We are still shipping Singles to people who accept them without a PSU.

If you are moving, send an email to office@butterflylabs.com. Put ADDRESS CHANGE and your order number in the subject. If our address change specialists don't get to it before I send your order to production, I will see it and change it before we ship.

Our intention has always been to do our best and ship as fast as we can. It just sucks when we actually ship this slowly and though many of you don't believe it, we are more frustrated than you are.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/258-monday-july-29-2013-shipping-update.html

[Flying Hellfish]

quote:

BFL_Jody  , 07-29-2013 at 09:50 PM

... It just sucks when we actually ship this slowly ...

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/258-monday-july-29-2013-shipping-update.html

That should help get the backlog all cleared up in the next ~60 days

[erk]

quote:

BFL_Jody  , 07-29-2013 at 09:50 PM

... It just sucks when we actually ship this slowly ...

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/258-monday-july-29-2013-shipping-update.html

That should help get the backlog all cleared up in the next ~60 days

I thought it was 33 days?

[Flying Hellfish]

quote:

BFL_Jody  , 07-29-2013 at 09:50 PM

... It just sucks when we actually ship this slowly ...

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/258-monday-july-29-2013-shipping-update.html

That should help get the backlog all cleared up in the next ~60 days

I thought it was 33 days?

Unbelievably, Josh had to move the date out to end of September, I am guessing they may have to push it out another couple of weeks past that though lol! 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

quote:

BFL_Jody  , 07-29-2013 at 09:50 PM

... It just sucks when we actually ship this slowly ...

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/258-monday-july-29-2013-shipping-update.html

That should help get the backlog all cleared up in the next ~60 days

I thought it was 33 days?

Josh just announced that all pre-orders will be shipped out within 29 days.

[erk]

quote:

BFL_Jody  , 07-29-2013 at 09:50 PM

... It just sucks when we actually ship this slowly ...

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/258-monday-july-29-2013-shipping-update.html

That should help get the backlog all cleared up in the next ~60 days

I thought it was 33 days?

Unbelievably, Josh had to move the date out to end of September, I am guessing they may have to push it out another couple of weeks past that though lol! 

Oh, I didn't know that. That would make the ROI a lot worse, we are getting to a nasty period in diff increases with the chips for Avalon DIY kits starting to arrive already, I was hoping the end of August target would be good.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Our intention has always been to do our best and ship as fast as we can. It just sucks when we actually ship this slowly and though many of you don't believe it, we are more frustrated than you are.

Can somebody explain to me like I'm five how BFL could be more frustrated than the monumental assholes who afforded them a comfortable livelihood, while they wait for their pre-ordered products, sans fewer parts than paid for plus extra s/h cost, to trickle through the hands of 35 competent(?) employees, half of which playing Minecraft on the clock, hence being behind on their customer service duties?

Apologies for the question the above not being put in simple form, but...

[erk]

Tuesday, July 30, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
07-31-2013 at 12:49 PM (475 Views)

    Jalapenos still shipping Nov 14, 2012 pay date

    Little Singles shipping June 25, 2012 pay date

    Singles June 24-26 pay dates (no orders from June 23 shipped)

    MiniRigs from June 23 shipped.

A little bit of all models.

[Syke]

Our intention has always been to do our best and ship as fast as we can. It just sucks when we actually ship this slowly and though many of you don't believe it, we are more frustrated than you are.

Can somebody explain to me like I'm five how BFL could be more frustrated than the monumental assholes who afforded them a comfortable livelihood, while they wait for their pre-ordered products, sans fewer parts than paid for plus extra s/h cost, to trickle through the hands of 35 competent(?) employees, half of which playing Minecraft on the clock, hence being behind on their customer service duties?

Apologies for the question the above not being put in simple form, but...

Jody had to press keys on her keyboard more than 1100 times for that blog posting. The amount of frustration that comes from pressing so many keys in a single day is staggering! In comparison, your forum post wasn't even 500 keystrokes. Just imagine more than double the frustration. Now add to that all the pain caused by the carpal tunnel syndrome, especially when many of those keystrokes were capital letters requiring 2 keys to be pressed at the same time! Jody is being worked to the bone having to post a blog update every single day!

[lindeanin]

quote:

BFL_Jody  , 07-29-2013 at 09:50 PM

... It just sucks when we actually ship this slowly ...

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/258-monday-july-29-2013-shipping-update.html

That should help get the backlog all cleared up in the next ~60 days

I thought it was 33 days?

Josh just announced that all pre-orders will be shipped out within 29 days.

If true, definitivelly best news today.

[minternj]

Josh just announced that all pre-orders will be shipped out within 29 days.

link?

[erk]

Josh just announced that all pre-orders will be shipped out within 29 days.

If true, definitivelly best news today.

Lol, do you think  Phinnaeus Gage is a teller of truth?

[lindeanin]

Josh just announced that all pre-orders will be shipped out within 29 days.

If true, definitivelly best news today.

Lol, do you think  Phinnaeus Gage is a teller of truth?

Yes i believe it may be true. Look at Phinnaeus Gage post count, he definitivelly knows what he is talking about

[GoodStuff]

Josh just announced that all pre-orders will be shipped out within 29 days.

If true, definitivelly best news today.

Lol, do you think  Phinnaeus Gage is a teller of truth?

Well Phinnaeus (I think) got that info from a post where Josh said he expected the backlog to be cleared by the end of August or something like that.

EDIT: He says it here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3611-buttefly-company-still-work-not-3.html#post44788

From Josh:

Yes, I still expect us to be through the back orders by the end of August.

[Dougie]

I'm also sure there was a bit of sarcasm in there since he seems to dislike BFL from what I've read!

[polrpaul]

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

If everyone had just ordered Jalepenos the entire BTC net would have been better off, greed for bigger and bigger rigs will kill the ROI for everyone. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA. It started a trend which is already causing problems. They should have simply sold 10 x the number of 6GH/s rigs. for a much better balanced net, and they could have charged more per GH/s.

Many humans suffer from greed, ordering big rigs straight up is an obvious example of this, like dogs competing for a food bowl.

Go big, or go home. Your attitude likely weakens your profit margin.

[erk]

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

If everyone had just ordered Jalepenos the entire BTC net would have been better off, greed for bigger and bigger rigs will kill the ROI for everyone. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA. It started a trend which is already causing problems. They should have simply sold 10 x the number of 6GH/s rigs. for a much better balanced net, and they could have charged more per GH/s.

Many humans suffer from greed, ordering big rigs straight up is an obvious example of this, like dogs competing for a food bowl.

Go big, or go home. Your attitude likely weakens your profit margin.

I don't think it has anything to do with profit margin, most crypto miners don't seem to be bright enough to consider such things first. More likely it is the "up size" mentality drummed into the consumer culture, why buy an efficient small car when you can have an SUV? Just borrow more, and spend a fortune on running it. Efficiency was never part of the equation, just having more is all that matters.

[Bitcoinorama]

What is really annoying for people like me is that I ordered 3 Jalepenos in the first couple of weeks.  They should have arrived and paid for themselves by now, but I UPGRADED my order to the better mini single, which no one has yet seen!!.

I wish I could down grade my order again.  Id be much better off.

If everyone had just ordered Jalepenos the entire BTC net would have been better off, greed for bigger and bigger rigs will kill the ROI for everyone. Avalon made a huge mistake launching a 60GH/s rig straight up, too much of a leap from FPGA. It started a trend which is already causing problems. They should have simply sold 10 x the number of 6GH/s rigs. for a much better balanced net, and they could have charged more per GH/s.

Many humans suffer from greed, ordering big rigs straight up is an obvious example of this, like dogs competing for a food bowl.

Go big, or go home. Your attitude likely weakens your profit margin.

I don't think it has anything to do with profit margin, most crypto miners don't seem to bet bright enough to consider such things first. More likely it is the "up size" mentality drummed into the consumer culture, why buy an efficient small car when you can have an SUV? Just borrow more, and spend a fortune on running it. Efficiency was never part of the equation, just having more is all that matters.

It was Cyprus and the price rise that turned the spotlight and brought more interest with more money. Obviously some with more liquidity than others, all wanting more power.

[panck4beer]

I'm also sure there was a bit of sarcasm in there since he seems to dislike BFL from what I've read!

Sarcasm or not, 1 month for delivery sounds good after so much wait

[Chronikka]

I'm also sure there was a bit of sarcasm in there since he seems to dislike BFL from what I've read!

Sarcasm or not, 1 month for delivery sounds good after so much wait

Yeah would you like to bet they don't come anywhere close to making that delivery estimate?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm also sure there was a bit of sarcasm in there since he seems to dislike BFL from what I've read!

Sarcasm or not, 1 month for delivery sounds good after so much wait

Since PSUs no longer need to be shipped with the miners, that accelerates the process several fold, coupled with the packages now weigh less putting more moneys in BFL's coffer until their coffin is nailed shut.

A whole new era begins after the end of August. BFL's Gen3 miners will be faster, cheaper, consume less power, look sexier, and will be delivered on time since...

Indeed, the bottom line is we are working to improve customer service and our shipping times.  We just shipped orders from the first of August, so we are getting caught up there.  I have been working hard on the customer service issue as well as the shipping issues.  We are also working very hard on getting the ASICs out the door on time.  We are really beefing up our production capacity and moving everything we can in house.  We've purchased a pick and place machine, an oven, stenciler and other equipment to manufacture all the boards in house.  This means we can produce as many boards as we need without being at the mercy of board manufacturers and their timing/runs. 

Our ASIC chip is 100% original IP and we will have as many chips as we need, when we need them.  We are standardizing a lot of our equipment, so we can keep massive quantities of inventory on hand (at least 6 months of production work is the goal), allowing us to crank out units - literally - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week if need be.  We've hired more personnel and will be hiring yet more people as we gear up.   

The ASIC generation is going to be much less complex, as well, so there will be less steps to creating a fully functional end unit, and we will also be able to assemble/produce the much faster.  Everything you know about BFL is changing now and will continue to change.  The only thing I can do is assure you we understand the concerns and we are doing everything we can to address the past mistakes. 

[solex]

We are standardizing a lot of our equipment, so we can keep massive quantities of inventory on hand (at least 6 months of production work is the goal), allowing us to crank out units - literally - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week if need be.  We've hired more personnel and will be hiring yet more people as we gear up.   

quote:

BFL_Jody  , 07-29-2013 at 09:50 PM

Jalapenos: None shipped today
Little Singles: One shipped today (okay I gave you an actual count!)
Singles: The bulk of our orders shipped today were Singles from pay dates 6/23, 6/24 and 6/25
MiniRigs: None shipped today

Is BFL cranking out these things?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

We are standardizing a lot of our equipment, so we can keep massive quantities of inventory on hand (at least 6 months of production work is the goal), allowing us to crank out units - literally - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week if need be.  We've hired more personnel and will be hiring yet more people as we gear up.   

quote:

BFL_Jody  , 07-29-2013 at 09:50 PM

Jalapenos: None shipped today
Little Singles: One shipped today (okay I gave you an actual count!)
Singles: The bulk of our orders shipped today were Singles from pay dates 6/23, 6/24 and 6/25
MiniRigs: None shipped today

Is BFL cranking out these things?

Hell no! They couldn't even secure a contract to manufacture a common washer even if they were the lowest bidder. You think our government is stupid? They'll even prove that they're not prior to September 15, 2013, the day Sonny Vleisides probation is up for fleecing the elderly outta millions with his 15 year running lottery scheme.

Time to hit those over the head with a cricket bat again who truly think that Sonny has changed his ways and they'll soon get their negative ROI Bitcoin miner sans a PSU from BF Labs Inc.

Backstory: Sonny Vleisides owns webspawner.com: http://www.webspawner.com/users/sunrider



I'm sure the State Department is looking into this. If not, they soon will be.

This post brought to you by Bruno Kucinskas, MONUMENTAL ASSHOLE at Large.

[dominicus]

Mr Phinnaeus Gage,
Every time I see your avatar I get a chuckle. I think the red highlights how overheated your frontal lobe gets, constantly obsessing about BFL and associated characters.
I sure hope your condition is not impairing you in other aspects of your life.

[joeventura]

Josh just announced that all pre-orders will be shipped out within 29 days.

If true, definitivelly best news today.

Lol, do you think  Phinnaeus Gage is a teller of truth?

Well Phinnaeus (I think) got that info from a post where Josh said he expected the backlog to be cleared by the end of August or something like that.

EDIT: He says it here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3611-buttefly-company-still-work-not-3.html#post44788

From Josh:

Yes, I still expect us to be through the back orders by the end of August.

This is physically impossible and will never happen.

Won't happen by the end of September either.

They are currently shipping no more than 75 units a day

[Threader]

EDIT: He says it here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3611-buttefly-company-still-work-not-3.html#post44788

From Josh:
Quote
Yes, I still expect us to be through the back orders by the end of August.

What do you expect Josh_Inaba will say? The hard cold truth with a human touch?

 "Dear Clients, the truth is we have no firm way of knowing when we will get through the backlog of orders. To estimate would be pure conjecture and we have more respect for our clients than this. All we can say is we are doing our best to get through the backlog and we are confident that we will solve our production and logistics issue as soon as possible. We thank you for your patience, understanding, and the trust and money you have invested in BFL.

If unfortunately you feel you can no longer wait we understand and will offer full refunds to any client who request one in short order."

No Sonny is giving strict orders "Josh, tell them anything you want but keep in mind your performance bonus is tied to New Pre-order volumes and Pre-order refunds, so you know what you need to do!"

[cdog]

It looks like nobody who ordered in 2013 will get their order this year, if ever - or get their investment back on their purchase.

Pretty cool stuff. I applaud anyone who cancelled their order as having great foresight.

[dominicus]

It looks like nobody who ordered in 2013 will get their order this year, if ever - or get their investment back on their purchase.

Pretty cool stuff. I applaud anyone who cancelled their order as having great foresight.

Darn you truther!

[HellDiverUK]

I ordered a 7GH/s Jalapeno last month.  I don't care if it takes a year to arrive.  ROI isn't important to me.  It's not even a consideration, really.

Hopefully those who have got ROI in the forefront of their minds will get refunds, making my order shuffle it's way closer to the front of the queue.

[Xian01]

I ordered a 7GH/s Jalapeno last month.  I don't care if it takes a year to arrive.  ROI isn't important to me.  It's not even a consideration, really.

Hopefully those who have got ROI in the forefront of their minds will get refunds, making my order shuffle it's way closer to the front of the queue.

 You should care. The money you spent last month on a 7gH/s miner will more than likely buy you a 70gH/s miner a year from now.

 Furthermore, they have stated they have ceased giving refunds now for your orders as they are shipping.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Mr Phinnaeus Gage,
Every time I see your avatar I get a chuckle. I think the red highlights how overheated your frontal lobe gets, constantly obsessing about BFL and associated characters.
I sure hope your condition is not impairing you in other aspects of your life.

Thank you for your concern. It's not, with the exception of spending less time on MFC.

You do realize that my "constantly obsessing about BFL" has yet to equal all that Josh posted sticking it up naysayers' asses, hence taking my doctor's advice and created a goal in life: Stick it up Josh's ass and see how it likes it. The only flaw I now see in this endeavor was failing to see that Josh likes it.

Sonny Vleisides, on the other hand, won't ever return here to address a single issue because...wait for it...he's a pussy!

[vcsmith]

It looks like nobody who ordered in 2013 will get their order this year, if ever - or get their investment back on their purchase...

I did. It took a month, but I successfully got a refund on my several-months-old order - even after BFL told me "no". 

[scambutterflylabs]

BFL backlog estimate:



source:
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2713-time-table-simplified-14.html#post50313

[Flying Hellfish]

Josh just announced that all pre-orders will be shipped out within 29 days.

If true, definitivelly best news today.

Lol, do you think  Phinnaeus Gage is a teller of truth?

Well Phinnaeus (I think) got that info from a post where Josh said he expected the backlog to be cleared by the end of August or something like that.

EDIT: He says it here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3611-buttefly-company-still-work-not-3.html#post44788

From Josh:

Yes, I still expect us to be through the back orders by the end of August.

BFL delivery estimates are a moving target so it's not surprising you might have missed this one.  This update moving the target again appears to have been penned about 5 days after he wrote the one about clearing the back log by end of August.  I would expect sometime in the next couple of weeks we will hear how it will be end of October and so on (until the house of cards comes tumbling down!).

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3703-josh-its-time-update-bfl-asic-status.html#post45852
I did talk to suppliers and ran some calculations. With the current order book up to today, I expect it to be filled by the end of September. I'm not sure what order number we'll get up to by the end of August, but we'll be pretty far into it by then. I'll probably have a better idea by the middle of this month.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Josh just announced that all pre-orders will be shipped out within 29 days.

If true, definitivelly best news today.

Lol, do you think  Phinnaeus Gage is a teller of truth?

Well Phinnaeus (I think) got that info from a post where Josh said he expected the backlog to be cleared by the end of August or something like that.

EDIT: He says it here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3611-buttefly-company-still-work-not-3.html#post44788

From Josh:

Yes, I still expect us to be through the back orders by the end of August.

BFL delivery estimates are a moving target so it's not surprising you might have missed this one.  This update moving the target again appears to have been penned about 5 days after he wrote the one about clearing the back log by end of August.  I would expect sometime in the next couple of weeks we will hear how it will be end of October and so on (until the house of cards comes tumbling down!).

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3703-josh-its-time-update-bfl-asic-status.html#post45852
I did talk to suppliers and ran some calculations. With the current order book up to today, I expect it to be filled by the end of September. I'm not sure what order number we'll get up to by the end of August, but we'll be pretty far into it by then. I'll probably have a better idea by the middle of this month.

Captain Vague, how soon can you get here to save us from Dr. Doom?

I'm not sure exactly where I am now, but if I'm nearby, expect soon, otherwise probably not as quickly as you would like me to be there to save you all. I'll probably have a better estimate... Damnit! I just wrecked my quadcopter. Honestly, saving you monumental assholes is the the least of my worries.

Captain Vague, out!

[scambutterflylabs]

... 900 units a day ...

quote BFL_Office:

The setup has a conservative capacity of 300 units per 8 hour shift or 900 units in a 24 hour day.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/article-comments/58-article-butterfly-labs-invests-heavily-high-speed-production-equipment-2.html#post886

quote BFL_josh:
"I am often asked the question "If I order now, when do you expect my order to ship." This is a hard question to answer, since we don't know exactly how long it takes to assemble a unit. However, the best estimate we have for this is that if you order today, 13 January 2013, you would likely receive your order around the middle of March or possibly sooner if you're ordering a Jalapeno or a Single"

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html

13 January 2013
"We have all of our parts needed to build the units in stock, with the exception of the chips. We have taken delivery of all of our Chinese made components at this time and they are filling up our warehouse and the assembly plant warehouse. Our fab is not located in China and our chips will be done before CNY in any event. Our packaging plant is located in California and obviously not affected by CNY, our assembly house is located in the US and thus also not affected."

[Phinnaeus Gage]

... 900 units a day ...

quote BFL_Office:

The setup has a conservative capacity of 300 units per 8 hour shift or 900 units in a 24 hour day.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/article-comments/58-article-butterfly-labs-invests-heavily-high-speed-production-equipment-2.html#post886

quote BFL_josh:
"I am often asked the question "If I order now, when do you expect my order to ship." This is a hard question to answer, since we don't know exactly how long it takes to assemble a unit. However, the best estimate we have for this is that if you order today, 13 January 2013, you would likely receive your order around the middle of March or possibly sooner if you're ordering a Jalapeno or a Single"

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html

13 January 2013
"We have all of our parts needed to build the units in stock, with the exception of the chips. We have taken delivery of all of our Chinese made components at this time and they are filling up our warehouse and the assembly plant warehouse. Our fab is not located in China and our chips will be done before CNY in any event. Our packaging plant is located in California and obviously not affected by CNY, our assembly house is located in the US and thus also not affected."

I am often asked the question "If I order now, when do you expect my order to ship." This is a hard question to answer, since we don't know exactly how long it takes to assemble a unit. However, the best estimate we have for this is that if you order today, 13 January 2013, you would likely receive your order around the middle of March or possibly sooner if you're ordering a Jalapeno or a Single. Minirigs take much more time to build than the other product lines, so they will take longer to deliver. However, without actually going through a bulk assembly process, we aren't sure what the major bottle necks will be. We can do estimates and we have strived for simplicity in everything related to the SC line. To that end, it requires 4 screws per Jalapeno and 6 screws per Single. Assembly of these units should take less than 5 minutes (probably around 3 minutes) per unit, so working through our pre-order backlog should be very quick. It will take more time to box and label them than it will to assemble them. The March ship date is a worst case scenario and it's entirely possible you would get your unit much sooner than that.

Inaba the Dream Maker!

[YipYip]

Wow 900 units a day now

it started at 300...now 400 and now hold onto your ears 900 units a day

We are now the 2nd day of August and your 90 days are finished in ~ 28 days

I really think if you liying dogs even shipped 100 units a day people would be dancing in the street !!!

EDIT : Just saw that they shipped ~120 units ...they got so exicted they took a picture.... so far we have had 20 units on a trolly and now 120 units for a week i would guess worth of shipping...wow dont really see the 900 units a day

I really liked the "i dont know how long it takes to build a miner " ....really is this because u have not actually built any or you would not be lying to us again Josh ...


Anyways Bitfury Avalon KNC (maybe) AsicMiner & Others are about to drop the diff curve bomb and i give them 12 weeks until the EOL (End of Life )

So here is my count down............... 90 days and Josh, Sonny and his merry band of thiefs are either

Holidaying in an Non-Extraditable country (Sonny)

or

Josh.Z the professional EPIC FAIL of historic proportions... the most un-employable person on the internet

He would give Casey Anthony a run for her money trying to get a job in a child care center as Josh ever working in the Electronics industry....... I think the only things Josh will be worrying about in the future  are

"What can i actually buy with my food stamps"
                      &
"What shops will accept them "
                  &
"Can i barter Raman noodles for Beer"
                  &
"Will my trolly make it from the Shelter and back to Liquir Store or should I stash it the abandoned building next to the 7 eleven"
                &
"Phineues Gage is on a real money earner with his Barn wood Salavage Entetrprise maybe i should call him for some tips"

Good luck with that Josh.....

Your Future looks so bright, hopefully you will find a pair of discarded sunglass's in the next trash can you go looking through..

Start to get worried when SOnny says I will be gone only for a couple of days and Ill be back Soon ..lolz

[erk]

Thursday, August 1, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
08-02-2013 at 02:08 PM

    Jalapenos: none shipped today

    Little Singles: we shipped through July 23, 2012

    Singles: All shipped through June 26, 2012 and into June 27, 2012

    MiniRigs: Biggest shipment so far. Still from June 23 orders

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/

[scambutterflylabs]

Re: Criminal proceedings against Butterfly Labs for fraud

quote / translation

"The case was closed. BFL had indeed refused to make a refund but after I reported the American trade supervision, BFL has refunded me the 15,000 USD back."

Das Verfahren wurde eingestellt. BFL hatte sich zwar geweigert ein Rückzahlung zu leisten aber nachdem ich es der Amerikanischen Handelsaufsicht gemeldet habe, hat BFL mir die 15,000 USD zurück erstattet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255178.msg2846193#msg2846193

[dominicus]

Re: Criminal proceedings against Butterfly Labs for fraud

quote / translation

"The case was closed. BFL had indeed refused to make a refund but after I reported the American trade supervision, BFL has refunded me the 15,000 USD back."

Das Verfahren wurde eingestellt. BFL hatte sich zwar geweigert ein Rückzahlung zu leisten aber nachdem ich es der Amerikanischen Handelsaufsicht gemeldet habe, hat BFL mir die 15,000 USD zurück erstattet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255178.msg2846193#msg2846193

This BFL debacle may be a textbook example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I get a strong sense that BFL might've done a lot better in many aspects of their operation had they not been surrounded and bombarded by the clinically-suspicious and vocal crowd that is a staple of bitcoin.

It's impossible to succeed in any project where your current customers are vocally and justifiably destroying your ability to get additional customers.  No business succeeds without positive cash-flow from new sales.

Equally or more blameworthy was placing sub-standard individuals to manage their early stumbles, and keep them there when things got ugly.

BFL did have the technical capability and intent to design and market a viable ASIC device that could've made a lot of BTC for a whole lot of folks, but this never came to be.

My point is that incompetent PR and execution on BFL's part, coupled with the barrage from unreasonably acid buyers irrevocably poisoned a business idea that did, in fact, have a real product behind it.

This very damaging combination killed the money supply for BFL.  The louder the cross-fighting, the less sales, less free cash to fix the issues, the more delays, the louder the complaints, the stupider the retorts....all the while, there was, in fact, a product to be had, but no extra money to address the inevitable wrinkles that come with the introduction of new technology.

[Chronikka]

Re: Criminal proceedings against Butterfly Labs for fraud

quote / translation

"The case was closed. BFL had indeed refused to make a refund but after I reported the American trade supervision, BFL has refunded me the 15,000 USD back."

Das Verfahren wurde eingestellt. BFL hatte sich zwar geweigert ein Rückzahlung zu leisten aber nachdem ich es der Amerikanischen Handelsaufsicht gemeldet habe, hat BFL mir die 15,000 USD zurück erstattet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255178.msg2846193#msg2846193

This BFL debacle may be a textbook example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I get a strong sense that BFL might've done a lot better in many aspects of their operation had they not been surrounded and bombarded by the clinically-suspicious and vocal crowd that is a staple of bitcoin.

It's impossible to succeed in any project where your current customers are vocally and justifiably destroying your ability to get additional customers.  No business succeeds without positive cash-flow from new sales.

Equally or more blameworthy was placing sub-standard individuals to manage their early stumbles, and keep them there when things got ugly.

BFL did have the technical capability and intent to design and market a viable ASIC device that could've made a lot of BTC for a whole lot of folks, but this never came to be.

My point is that incompetent PR and execution on BFL's part, coupled with the barrage from unreasonably acid buyers irrevocably poisoned a business idea that did, in fact, have a real product behind it.

This very damaging combination killed the money supply for BFL.  The louder the cross-fighting, the less sales, less free cash to fix the issues, the more delays, the louder the complaints, the stupider the retorts....all the while, there was, in fact, a product to be had, but no extra money to address the inevitable wrinkles that come with the introduction of new technology.

And you are blaming the customers for that? Excuse me but when I pay for something under a pretense I expect it to be fulfilled within reason. Not lied to and treated like crap for months on end while I attempt to figure out when I will in fact get my already months late and now devalued order. Maybe BFL should be focusing on satisfying the people they pissed off instead of finding new suckers to buy into them

[Xian01]

Maybe BFL should be focusing on satisfying the people they pissed off instead of finding new suckers to buy into them

 Pigs would grow wings and fly sooner than this would happen.

[geofflosophy]

Re: Criminal proceedings against Butterfly Labs for fraud

quote / translation

"The case was closed. BFL had indeed refused to make a refund but after I reported the American trade supervision, BFL has refunded me the 15,000 USD back."

Das Verfahren wurde eingestellt. BFL hatte sich zwar geweigert ein Rückzahlung zu leisten aber nachdem ich es der Amerikanischen Handelsaufsicht gemeldet habe, hat BFL mir die 15,000 USD zurück erstattet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255178.msg2846193#msg2846193

This BFL debacle may be a textbook example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I get a strong sense that BFL might've done a lot better in many aspects of their operation had they not been surrounded and bombarded by the clinically-suspicious and vocal crowd that is a staple of bitcoin.

It's impossible to succeed in any project where your current customers are vocally and justifiably destroying your ability to get additional customers.  No business succeeds without positive cash-flow from new sales.

Equally or more blameworthy was placing sub-standard individuals to manage their early stumbles, and keep them there when things got ugly.

BFL did have the technical capability and intent to design and market a viable ASIC device that could've made a lot of BTC for a whole lot of folks, but this never came to be.

My point is that incompetent PR and execution on BFL's part, coupled with the barrage from unreasonably acid buyers irrevocably poisoned a business idea that did, in fact, have a real product behind it.

This very damaging combination killed the money supply for BFL.  The louder the cross-fighting, the less sales, less free cash to fix the issues, the more delays, the louder the complaints, the stupider the retorts....all the while, there was, in fact, a product to be had, but no extra money to address the inevitable wrinkles that come with the introduction of new technology.

WTF? BFL has SOOOO many orders... they're still shipping orders from the middle of 2012. Anyone who puts an order through the door at this point is almost certainly going to lose money, and even if BFL manages to get their current backorders out the door by the end of September;forget August; and new orders out the door shortly after, you're still looking at almost no upside, even if you manage to get back to even. And the people who placed orders in BTC in 2012 are never going to even come close to making back their money relative to just holding BTC during that time.

[erk]

WTF? BFL has SOOOO many orders... they're still shipping orders from the middle of 2012. Anyone who puts an order through the door at this point is almost certainly going to lose money, and even if BFL manages to get their current backorders out the door by the end of September;forget August; and new orders out the door shortly after, you're still looking at almost no upside, even if you manage to get back to even. And the people who placed orders in BTC in 2012 are never going to even come close to making back their money relative to just holding BTC during that time.

There are many things that could change, the next wafer run could be more power efficient, BFL could decide to reduce it's price to improve ROI/sales. You can't tell what's going to happen.

[Threader]

Lesson learned: Never do business with an Asic manufacturer / miner assembler that has an open unending ordersheet. Not saying it won't rule out foul play but at least it shows a level of responsibility.

As someone else pointed out before (can't remember who but iwon't take credit for it) Yes they are shipping an undeniable truth but anyone placing new orders is buying a heavily back-ordered product. Seeing that it is backordered product than not refunding clients is utter BS. Josh has always said (someone find his quote as I'm too lazy to muck through months of mindless drivel from the guy) that BFL does not spend the order money until the item is produced or something along that line.

Well if you haven't spent it then give it the fuck back. Even if you did give it back anyways. It's the right thing to do not that good morals have anything to do with this company's management.

[erk]

Lesson learned: Never do business with an Asic manufacturer / miner assembler that has an open unending ordersheet. Not saying it won't rule out foul play but at least it shows a level of responsibility.

As someone else pointed out before (can't remember who but iwon't take credit for it) Yes they are shipping an undeniable truth but anyone placing new orders is buying a heavily back-ordered product. Seeing that it is backordered product than not refunding clients is utter BS. Josh has always said (someone find his quote as I'm too lazy to muck through months of mindless drivel from the guy) that BFL does not spend the order money until the item is produced or something along that line.

Well if you haven't spent it then give it the fuck back. Even if you did give it back anyways. It's the right thing to do not that good morals have anything to do with this company's management.

Most BFL products are around $50 per GH/s, that's no longer competitive, the market is offering $20 per GH/s elsewhere, so BFL wont have an open ended order book at their old price if people have to wait months for delivery. In the near future, the order book is just going to move to whichever ASIC vendor, has the shortest delivery time.

[dominicus]

Re: Criminal proceedings against Butterfly Labs for fraud

quote / translation

"The case was closed. BFL had indeed refused to make a refund but after I reported the American trade supervision, BFL has refunded me the 15,000 USD back."

Das Verfahren wurde eingestellt. BFL hatte sich zwar geweigert ein Rückzahlung zu leisten aber nachdem ich es der Amerikanischen Handelsaufsicht gemeldet habe, hat BFL mir die 15,000 USD zurück erstattet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255178.msg2846193#msg2846193

This BFL debacle may be a textbook example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I get a strong sense that BFL might've done a lot better in many aspects of their operation had they not been surrounded and bombarded by the clinically-suspicious and vocal crowd that is a staple of bitcoin.

It's impossible to succeed in any project where your current customers are vocally and justifiably destroying your ability to get additional customers.  No business succeeds without positive cash-flow from new sales.

Equally or more blameworthy was placing sub-standard individuals to manage their early stumbles, and keep them there when things got ugly.

BFL did have the technical capability and intent to design and market a viable ASIC device that could've made a lot of BTC for a whole lot of folks, but this never came to be.

My point is that incompetent PR and execution on BFL's part, coupled with the barrage from unreasonably acid buyers irrevocably poisoned a business idea that did, in fact, have a real product behind it.

This very damaging combination killed the money supply for BFL.  The louder the cross-fighting, the less sales, less free cash to fix the issues, the more delays, the louder the complaints, the stupider the retorts....all the while, there was, in fact, a product to be had, but no extra money to address the inevitable wrinkles that come with the introduction of new technology.

And you are blaming the customers for that? Excuse me but when I pay for something under a pretense I expect it to be fulfilled within reason. Not lied to and treated like crap for months on end while I attempt to figure out when I will in fact get my already months late and now devalued order. Maybe BFL should be focusing on satisfying the people they pissed off instead of finding new suckers to buy into them

I didn't ONLY blame the angry customers, you should read my post.  Inept company reps AND customers with anger that feeds on itself will kill any business' sales.
BFL didn't choose to build ASICS in lots like Avalon.  The didn't put the cash from past sales in a lock-box until they fulfilled those orders, instead they rely on ongoing sales to fund current operations, like 99.9999% of businesses.
I'm asserting the irony that the louder customers warn about BFL's non-performance, the less likely BFL will ever be able to correct their performance.  A self-fulfilling prophecy.
BFL is not like Exxon-Mobil that has mountains of cash reserves and a reputation to keep, that they can't go out and hire an army of workers without cashflow.  And what supplier in their right mind will ship them the boatloads of components they need to ramp up deliveries?  Certainly not after they check these boards.
So my point about the self-fulfilling prophecy:  the louder the screams of scam!, the more certain their performance became scam-like, even though they did have a real, well-performing design, and did intend to supply an innovative product.

I don't blame preorder customers for complaining of delays.  I am one of those customers and have complained myself. Nor did I absolve BFL for royally fumbling how they dealt with their non-delivery and wouldn't quit exaggerating their capabilities, creating ever-loftier expectations they had no hope ever meeting.

You know who does deserves blame? Those that incessantly warned about BFL being an outright scam, never placed an order, and wouldn't believe a Jalapeno was real even if it hit them on their heads.  Instead of eating humble pie when shipments started, many of these model human beings (not all) switched their wrath to complain about slow deliveries and bury BFL, even when they had no stake in BFL.  What was (is) their motivation?  I suspect it has more to do with salvaging their ego than trying to improve the situation.

[Threader]

Free market is a wonderful thing  

[Xian01]

Lesson learned: Never do business with an Asic manufacturer / miner assembler that has an open unending ordersheet.

 I recognize I am dangerously close to flirting with a shill accusation for ASICMiner, but after observing the ASIC landscape develop since BFL's first announcement, I will not be participating in any further pre-orders in Bitcoin space.

 Avalon's recent developments have cemented that decision as their chip shipments are late and their customer service/communication is abysmal.

 If you have a product that I can pay for and receive in a week's time, Perfect ! You have my business.

 It's just too risky right now in Bitcoin ASIC space, and it's worth the peace of mind paying a premium for a product I can have right now hashing away on the network.

 I imagine a year from now, the landscape will have changed such that we'll have no trouble picking-and-choosing from several vendors with stock on-hand.

[Threader]

Re: Criminal proceedings against Butterfly Labs for fraud

quote / translation

"The case was closed. BFL had indeed refused to make a refund but after I reported the American trade supervision, BFL has refunded me the 15,000 USD back."

Das Verfahren wurde eingestellt. BFL hatte sich zwar geweigert ein Rückzahlung zu leisten aber nachdem ich es der Amerikanischen Handelsaufsicht gemeldet habe, hat BFL mir die 15,000 USD zurück erstattet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255178.msg2846193#msg2846193

This BFL debacle may be a textbook example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I get a strong sense that BFL might've done a lot better in many aspects of their operation had they not been surrounded and bombarded by the clinically-suspicious and vocal crowd that is a staple of bitcoin.

It's impossible to succeed in any project where your current customers are vocally and justifiably destroying your ability to get additional customers.  No business succeeds without positive cash-flow from new sales.

Equally or more blameworthy was placing sub-standard individuals to manage their early stumbles, and keep them there when things got ugly.

BFL did have the technical capability and intent to design and market a viable ASIC device that could've made a lot of BTC for a whole lot of folks, but this never came to be.

My point is that incompetent PR and execution on BFL's part, coupled with the barrage from unreasonably acid buyers irrevocably poisoned a business idea that did, in fact, have a real product behind it.

This very damaging combination killed the money supply for BFL.  The louder the cross-fighting, the less sales, less free cash to fix the issues, the more delays, the louder the complaints, the stupider the retorts....all the while, there was, in fact, a product to be had, but no extra money to address the inevitable wrinkles that come with the introduction of new technology.

And you are blaming the customers for that? Excuse me but when I pay for something under a pretense I expect it to be fulfilled within reason. Not lied to and treated like crap for months on end while I attempt to figure out when I will in fact get my already months late and now devalued order. Maybe BFL should be focusing on satisfying the people they pissed off instead of finding new suckers to buy into them

I didn't ONLY blame the angry customers, you should read my post.  Inept company reps AND customers with anger that feeds on itself will kill any business' sales.
BFL didn't choose to build ASICS in lots like Avalon.  The didn't put the cash from past sales in a lock-box until they fulfilled those orders, instead they rely on ongoing sales to fund current operations, like 99.9999% of businesses.
I'm asserting the irony that the louder customers warn about BFL's non-performance, the less likely BFL will ever be able to correct their performance.  A self-fulfilling prophecy.
BFL is not like Exxon-Mobil that has mountains of cash reserves and a reputation to keep, that they can't go out and hire an army of workers without cashflow.  And what supplier in their right mind will ship them the boatloads of components they need to ramp up deliveries?  Certainly not after they check these boards.
So my point about the self-fulfilling prophecy:  the louder the screams of scam!, the more certain their performance became scam-like, even though they did have a real, well-performing design, and did intend to supply an innovative product.

I don't blame preorder customers for complaining of delays.  I am one of those customers and have complained myself. Nor did I absolve BFL for royally fumbling how they dealt with their non-delivery and wouldn't quit exaggerating their capabilities, creating ever-loftier expectations they had no hope ever meeting.

You know who does deserves blame? Those that incessantly warned about BFL being an outright scam, never placed an order, and wouldn't believe a Jalapeno was real even if it hit them on their heads.  Instead of eating humble pie when shipments started, many of these model human beings (not all) switched their wrath to complain about slow deliveries and bury BFL, even when they had no stake in BFL.  What was (is) their motivation?  I suspect it has more to do with salvaging their ego than trying to improve the situation.

You remind me of that castro dude in court blaming the helpless victims for his demise

[k9quaint]

Re: Criminal proceedings against Butterfly Labs for fraud

quote / translation

"The case was closed. BFL had indeed refused to make a refund but after I reported the American trade supervision, BFL has refunded me the 15,000 USD back."

Das Verfahren wurde eingestellt. BFL hatte sich zwar geweigert ein Rückzahlung zu leisten aber nachdem ich es der Amerikanischen Handelsaufsicht gemeldet habe, hat BFL mir die 15,000 USD zurück erstattet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255178.msg2846193#msg2846193

This BFL debacle may be a textbook example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I get a strong sense that BFL might've done a lot better in many aspects of their operation had they not been surrounded and bombarded by the clinically-suspicious and vocal crowd that is a staple of bitcoin.

It's impossible to succeed in any project where your current customers are vocally and justifiably destroying your ability to get additional customers.  No business succeeds without positive cash-flow from new sales.

Equally or more blameworthy was placing sub-standard individuals to manage their early stumbles, and keep them there when things got ugly.

BFL did have the technical capability and intent to design and market a viable ASIC device that could've made a lot of BTC for a whole lot of folks, but this never came to be.

My point is that incompetent PR and execution on BFL's part, coupled with the barrage from unreasonably acid buyers irrevocably poisoned a business idea that did, in fact, have a real product behind it.

This very damaging combination killed the money supply for BFL.  The louder the cross-fighting, the less sales, less free cash to fix the issues, the more delays, the louder the complaints, the stupider the retorts....all the while, there was, in fact, a product to be had, but no extra money to address the inevitable wrinkles that come with the introduction of new technology.

And you are blaming the customers for that? Excuse me but when I pay for something under a pretense I expect it to be fulfilled within reason. Not lied to and treated like crap for months on end while I attempt to figure out when I will in fact get my already months late and now devalued order. Maybe BFL should be focusing on satisfying the people they pissed off instead of finding new suckers to buy into them

I didn't ONLY blame the angry customers, you should read my post.  Inept company reps AND customers with anger that feeds on itself will kill any business' sales.
BFL didn't choose to build ASICS in lots like Avalon.  The didn't put the cash from past sales in a lock-box until they fulfilled those orders, instead they rely on ongoing sales to fund current operations, like 99.9999% of businesses.
I'm asserting the irony that the louder customers warn about BFL's non-performance, the less likely BFL will ever be able to correct their performance.  A self-fulfilling prophecy.
BFL is not like Exxon-Mobil that has mountains of cash reserves and a reputation to keep, that they can't go out and hire an army of workers without cashflow.  And what supplier in their right mind will ship them the boatloads of components they need to ramp up deliveries?  Certainly not after they check these boards.
So my point about the self-fulfilling prophecy:  the louder the screams of scam!, the more certain their performance became scam-like, even though they did have a real, well-performing design, and did intend to supply an innovative product.

I don't blame preorder customers for complaining of delays.  I am one of those customers and have complained myself. Nor did I absolve BFL for royally fumbling how they dealt with their non-delivery and wouldn't quit exaggerating their capabilities, creating ever-loftier expectations they had no hope ever meeting.

You know who does deserves blame? Those that incessantly warned about BFL being an outright scam, never placed an order, and wouldn't believe a Jalapeno was real even if it hit them on their heads.  Instead of eating humble pie when shipments started, many of these model human beings (not all) switched their wrath to complain about slow deliveries and bury BFL, even when they had no stake in BFL.  What was (is) their motivation?  I suspect it has more to do with salvaging their ego than trying to improve the situation.

You remind me of that castro dude in court blaming the helpless victims for his demise

Name:   dominicus
Posts:   64
Activity:   42
Position:   Member
Date Registered:   July 01, 2013, 12:30:49 PM

How did a member of The Sockappellas get in here? Singing a tune that the customers are to blame for BFL?
Dumbest sockpuppet ever, I bet this one lasts even less time than int03h does.

[Threader]

Yes, BFL have been running a very harmonious household. Why anyone would complain just destroys this harmony. LOL. We are providing a public service. Like BFL_Jody said "if it makes you angry reading it then stop reading it"...yeah great advice. not

[Radacoin]

Where did Josh or Jody say that the backlog will be cleared by end of August?

[Flying Hellfish]

Where did Josh or Jody say that the backlog will be cleared by end of August?

BFL forums

Here is where he confirms end of August
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3611-buttefly-company-still-work-not-3.html#post44788

Here is where he pushes it out to end of September (about 5 days after he confirms end of Aug...)
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3703-josh-its-time-update-bfl-asic-status.html#post45852

[dominicus]

Name:   dominicus
Posts:   64
Activity:   42
Position:   Member
Date Registered:   July 01, 2013, 12:30:49 PM

How did a member of The Sockappellas get in here? Singing a tune that the customers are to blame for BFL?
Dumbest sockpuppet ever, I bet this one lasts even less time than int03h does.

Nice k9, you sure make it easy to prove a point about posters itching to spew acid out of self-fabricated supposition and spite.

Yes I am new to this forum.  Does one need to drool BFL PTSD, or own coins mined with CPU's to post here?

What is incorrect about pointing to the irony that customer anger causes future sales to crash, which in turn cause further delays due to BFL's lack of cashflow needed to ramp-up?

It's a poisoned vicious cycle, part-n-parcel of this business that's about to implode, but still highly likely what is going on right this minute.

Furthermore, it's my on-topic opinion with respect to the original title of this thread.

[Syke]

What is incorrect about pointing to the irony that customer anger causes future sales to crash, which in turn cause further delays due to BFL's lack of cashflow needed to ramp-up?

You just admitted that BFL is running a Ponzi scheme. Welcome to the BIAS (Bfl Is A Scam) club.

[dominicus]

What is incorrect about pointing to the irony that customer anger causes future sales to crash, which in turn cause further delays due to BFL's lack of cashflow needed to ramp-up?

You just admitted that BFL is running a Ponzi scheme. Welcome to the BIAS (Bfl Is A Scam) club.

I don't think Ponzi is accurate.  Ponzi schemers don't bother building a working product or buying whatever investment they market to attract future investors...much less embarking on custom wafer-level IC design or build factories.  In a Ponzi, investing the principal on anything is a waste, since most of it is what schemers want to steal for themselves.

Maybe a blend, in commercial realm, of a sales crunch (i.e. torrents of bad-press suppressing future sales), plus a bank run (bad-press & incompetence triggers a flood of forced refunds of prepaid orders).

[joeventura]

Currently the only difference between Avalon and BFL is Avalon does not tell us something is going to happen and it doesn't and they don't tell us to "fucking get a clue"

Otherwise they are equal in poor communication, poor customer service, poor delivery time frames, over promising and under-delivering.

[erk]

Currently the only difference between Avalon and BFL is Avalon does not tell us something is going to happen and it doesn't and they don't tell us to "fucking get a clue"

Otherwise they are equal in poor communication, poor customer service, poor delivery time frames, over promising and under-delivering.

I actually see that as a positive for BFL to know that at least one of their execs is on the ground reading forums, knowing what the market thinks, even if he does go over the top with abuse from time to time, it's better than sitting in an ivory tower totally out of touch with the user base.

[k9quaint]

Name:   dominicus
Posts:   64
Activity:   42
Position:   Member
Date Registered:   July 01, 2013, 12:30:49 PM

How did a member of The Sockappellas get in here? Singing a tune that the customers are to blame for BFL?
Dumbest sockpuppet ever, I bet this one lasts even less time than int03h does.

Nice k9, you sure make it easy to prove a point about posters itching to spew acid out of self-fabricated supposition and spite.

Try being less dumb. Try being more informed. This will happen every time one of you noobie/sockpuppets show up spewing random nonsense about how "she was asking for it because of the way she was dressed".

Yes I am new to this forum.  Does one need to drool BFL PTSD, or own coins mined with CPU's to post here?

No, you need to read history before you try to explain it.

What is incorrect about pointing to the irony that customer anger causes future sales to crash, which in turn cause further delays due to BFL's lack of cashflow needed to ramp-up?

It is not ironic. It is just logical. Less victims means less money for BFL. Investors are not to blame for how BFL spent their investment.
If BFL is indeed in a cash crunch then they have lied about it, further absolving investors.

It's a poisoned vicious cycle, part-n-parcel of this business that's about to implode, but still highly likely what is going on right this minute.
Furthermore, it's my on-topic opinion with respect to the original title of this thread.

All BFL would have to do to break the cycle is hire a communications person who does not insult, ridicule, ignore, and taunt their customer base. Or might that be too obvious? You don't see the same time of poisonous hatred for Avalon (quite the contrary in fact) because when they miss a date, they don't show up on the forums to insult their investors.

[YipYip]

Re: Criminal proceedings against Butterfly Labs for fraud

quote / translation

"The case was closed. BFL had indeed refused to make a refund but after I reported the American trade supervision, BFL has refunded me the 15,000 USD back."

Das Verfahren wurde eingestellt. BFL hatte sich zwar geweigert ein Rückzahlung zu leisten aber nachdem ich es der Amerikanischen Handelsaufsicht gemeldet habe, hat BFL mir die 15,000 USD zurück erstattet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255178.msg2846193#msg2846193

This BFL debacle may be a textbook example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I get a strong sense that BFL might've done a lot better in many aspects of their operation had they not been surrounded and bombarded by the clinically-suspicious and vocal crowd that is a staple of bitcoin.

It's impossible to succeed in any project where your current customers are vocally and justifiably destroying your ability to get additional customers.  No business succeeds without positive cash-flow from new sales.

Equally or more blameworthy was placing sub-standard individuals to manage their early stumbles, and keep them there when things got ugly.

BFL did have the technical capability and intent to design and market a viable ASIC device that could've made a lot of BTC for a whole lot of folks, but this never came to be.

My point is that incompetent PR and execution on BFL's part, coupled with the barrage from unreasonably acid buyers irrevocably poisoned a business idea that did, in fact, have a real product behind it.

This very damaging combination killed the money supply for BFL.  The louder the cross-fighting, the less sales, less free cash to fix the issues, the more delays, the louder the complaints, the stupider the retorts....all the while, there was, in fact, a product to be had, but no extra money to address the inevitable wrinkles that come with the introduction of new technology.

Oh My God ...how fucking deluded are you !!!

So i get it just like a battered wife ...its our fault for being critical and calling them on the 100's of missed promises and lies

You are sooooooooooo awesome !!!! 

[YipYip]

Lesson learned: Never do business with an Asic manufacturer / miner assembler that has an open unending ordersheet.

 I recognize I am dangerously close to flirting with a shill accusation for ASICMiner, but after observing the ASIC landscape develop since BFL's first announcement, I will not be participating in any further pre-orders in Bitcoin space.

 Avalon's recent developments have cemented that decision as their chip shipments are late and their customer service/communication is abysmal.

 If you have a product that I can pay for and receive in a week's time, Perfect ! You have my business.

 It's just too risky right now in Bitcoin ASIC space, and it's worth the peace of mind paying a premium for a product I can have right now hashing away on the network.

 I imagine a year from now, the landscape will have changed such that we'll have no trouble picking-and-choosing from several vendors with stock on-hand.

I came to this realization 6 months ago and moved to LTC

I have been happy and profitable ever since

Its not the fantasy get rich quick schemes that drive the ASIC BTC world...but honest hard work (...lolz)

In 6 months when all of this crap calms down and ASICS are at a realistic price & a 1-2 week delivery cycle is when i will look at ASIC's

Life is too short to have all of that stress and angst being involved with unfulfilled promises & disappointments  ...its like being in a divorce and delivery is when u are finally free from these PRE-ORDER nightmares

 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Re: Criminal proceedings against Butterfly Labs for fraud

quote / translation

"The case was closed. BFL had indeed refused to make a refund but after I reported the American trade supervision, BFL has refunded me the 15,000 USD back."

Das Verfahren wurde eingestellt. BFL hatte sich zwar geweigert ein Rückzahlung zu leisten aber nachdem ich es der Amerikanischen Handelsaufsicht gemeldet habe, hat BFL mir die 15,000 USD zurück erstattet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255178.msg2846193#msg2846193

This BFL debacle may be a textbook example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I get a strong sense that BFL might've done a lot better in many aspects of their operation had they not been surrounded and bombarded by the clinically-suspicious and vocal crowd that is a staple of bitcoin.

It's impossible to succeed in any project where your current customers are vocally and justifiably destroying your ability to get additional customers.  No business succeeds without positive cash-flow from new sales.

Equally or more blameworthy was placing sub-standard individuals to manage their early stumbles, and keep them there when things got ugly.

BFL did have the technical capability and intent to design and market a viable ASIC device that could've made a lot of BTC for a whole lot of folks, but this never came to be.

My point is that incompetent PR and execution on BFL's part, coupled with the barrage from unreasonably acid buyers irrevocably poisoned a business idea that did, in fact, have a real product behind it.

This very damaging combination killed the money supply for BFL.  The louder the cross-fighting, the less sales, less free cash to fix the issues, the more delays, the louder the complaints, the stupider the retorts....all the while, there was, in fact, a product to be had, but no extra money to address the inevitable wrinkles that come with the introduction of new technology.

Let me see if I have this correct. BFL was able to secure VC prior to not having a working ASIC-based Bitcoin miner, but will have revenue problems due to not being able to procure an even much larger VC funding now that they've proven to the world that the bitches work and are in FULL PRODUCTION.

What am I missing?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Lesson learned: Never do business with an Asic manufacturer / miner assembler that has an open unending ordersheet. Not saying it won't rule out foul play but at least it shows a level of responsibility.

As someone else pointed out before (can't remember who but iwon't take credit for it) Yes they are shipping an undeniable truth but anyone placing new orders is buying a heavily back-ordered product. Seeing that it is backordered product than not refunding clients is utter BS. Josh has always said (someone find his quote as I'm too lazy to muck through months of mindless drivel from the guy) that BFL does not spend the order money until the item is produced or something along that line.

Well if you haven't spent it then give it the fuck back. Even if you did give it back anyways. It's the right thing to do not that good morals have anything to do with this company's management.

I found one such post you were too lazy to hunt (but glad to do it for you).

It kills me to agree with Jutarul, but this is actually a pretty good way to measure it.  The whole "If you bought BTC instead of XXXX device in YYY time, you would have made ZZZZ" is ludicrous and goes to show that the person making that argument does not understand how money works.

"Hindsight" wasn't my argument. BFL converts all BTC to USD, thus avoiding all currency risk. Buyers on the other hand preorder with BTC, and have their spent BTC sit in limbo until the product they purchase is finally delivered. True, BTC could have fallen instead of risen, which would have made those who have preordered much better off (and BTC did fall from $12 to $10.50 for a time), but this currency risk is taken on entirely by the customers. The decision to preorder a long time ago, which resulted from a huge opportunity cost, turned out to be a bad decision, but the main reason that decision was made to begin with was because BFL claimed that the delivery date was only a couple months away, i.e. BFL claimed that the currency risk would be smaller than it turned out to be. In the end, BFL was not affected, since it is not affected by BTC fluctuation due to holding USD, those who have preordered a long time ago have experienced a huge opportunity cost, and BFL is to blame. (If you think opportunity cost isn't a real cost, the extra $3,000USD worth of BTC that I have and that you don't says otherwise).
Now, I'm not saying that this is something that BFL needs to repay to those who have preordered. Currency exchange risk is often unpredictable, and something those who preordered (maybe) likely expected. I'm just pointing out that delays that happen when dealing with two currencies that fluxuate against each other do have very real costs, begin just annoyed customers and whining on forums.

By the way, it could have been MUCH worse if BFL had kept all their customer preorder funds in BTC instead, because if people asked for a refund, had BTC lost value, they could refund BTC, and had it gained value, sell it for the USD price equivalent and just return the USD, netting the BTC gains for themselves. It would have been an almost risk-free investment for them.

BTW, did BFL mention whether they are still keeping customer's preorder funds in a separate account? Because until they start shipping products, that money is still technically Unearned Revenue, and does not belong to them. I'm assuming that's what they are doing, since they are an LLC, will have to file taxes, and will have to declare it as such, lest they bring the wrath of IRS auditors upon their heads.

I guess I'm not understanding why/how you are applying this opportunity cost to only one side of the transaction, which then results in an unbalanced transaction.  Yes, BFL is late and the opportunity cost is real, but it applies to both sides of the transaction (and thus cancels out).  Saying BFL was not affected is the fundamental problem here - BFL is only not affected if the transaction is unilaterally applied to the customer and not BFL, which is not the case (as you point out in a later paragraph).  BFL would have to hold on to the BTC and then issue refunds in USD for that to apply, and that is not what's happening.  The opportunity cost that affects the customers also affects BFL.  If we had held on to the BTC, we could have gained quite a bit (again, as you already pointed out).  So yes, the opportunity cost is real in so far as "if someone had held on to the BTC, they'd have more USD value than they did before," but again that's only valid with hindsight, not with future predictions.  If BFL had known that BTC was going to rise, BFL should have kept the BTC instead of the USD.  Anyway, I'm rambling at this point... the take away from this is that the potential opportunity cost applies to both the customer and BFL and thus cancels each other out as providing an advantage to one party over another.

To answer your question, yes we maintain preorder funds separate from expenditure funds.

But there's another little nugget in the above. Notice Josh mentions that BFL doesn't not hold unto BTC. Odd! The $100K in BTC charity fund stems from the sales of miners and was not purchased en masse for the sole purpose of setting up that special fund.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The didn't put the cash from past sales in a lock-box until they fulfilled those orders, instead they rely on ongoing sales to fund current operations, like 99.9999% of businesses.

See my post above in bold red. Both statements can't be true.

[scambutterflylabs]

quote BFL_Jody

"Jalapenos: None shipped today, so we are still at Nov. 14,2012

Little Singles: shipping July 31, 2012 today

Singles: Not many--still at June 26

MiniRigs: Shipped a lot of MiniRigs from June 23/ 2012. Doubled our MiniRig staff

The rules for this post: I will only tell you the pay dates for orders shipped, Not quantities; not the order numbers.

I am too sleepy to say more tonight.

Ask me a question I can answer and I will post on Saturday---well, later on Saturday, like day time."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/266-friday-august-2-2013-shipping-update.html

[Noogsy]

quote BFL_Jody

"Jalapenos: None shipped today, so we are still at Nov. 14,2012
+
Little Singles: shipping July 31, 2012 today
+
Singles: Not many--still at June 26
+
MiniRigs: Shipped a lot of MiniRigs from June 23/ 2012. Doubled our MiniRig staff

= 300. Math is just soo relative.

When do you think "September" will be changed to Oct/Nov/Dec ?

[dominicus]

The didn't put the cash from past sales in a lock-box until they fulfilled those orders, instead they rely on ongoing sales to fund current operations, like 99.9999% of businesses.

See my post above in bold red. Both statements can't be true.

You're pulling a Dec-2012, pre-order/pre-ship statement by inaba, and expecting it continues to apply two months post-ship?

So, yes Phinnaeus Gage, I believe both statement can be true, although I doubt inaba's ever was.

I'd love to read an accounting regulation that prevents a private business that ships product from using cash from prepaid ORDERS for whatever they wish to spend it on (i.e. R&D, parties, charity, executive perks, and oooops none left for parts?!).

They do have a legal liability to the customer until they ship, so called "unearned revenue", but really just digits on a spreadsheet until someone successfully sues them or forces a refund...no requirement to keep the cash in any lock-box.

[testerx]

I'm not sure that they're really shipping 300 every single day, it seems like production happens in bursts, but I do think they've probably had several 300 unit type days.  August 1st seems to have been a pretty productive day in terms of shipping since they did most of 3 days of Single SCs and most orders are for multiple units so it's not inconceivable that the total number of units is fairly high even if the orders aren't.  Seems like they're stuck on larger June 26th orders.

Can't wait for my units...gonna be camping for the mailman tomorrow, might even have to miss an important lunch appointment lol.

[scambutterflylabs]

quote:

"The story so far

Butterfly Labs (BFL) is working with more than 1 year back-log of pre-orders. Since the company has no structured information about how this back-log is being cleared, several attempts to illustrate and keep track of the limited information from the company have been made - this is one of them. BFL_Jody (corporate officer and sec/treasurer) keeps the only daily blog with shipping information, otherwise the organisation is highly tightlipped.

The shipping blog lists information about which pre-order pay-dates have been shipped. The blog does not include any information about the number of units shipped, which is information that BFL does not want to share. Nor does the blog explain when production and shipping is slowed down. In fact most questions posed by the ever-increasingly dismayed public go unanswered. It is fair to assume that the company is struggling, not only with supply-chain, production and shipping - but also customer service.

BFL has promised that the back-log would be cleared this summer, but the deadline has been pushed back several times and at this point it appears unlikely that the latest deadline can be met.

BFL is also trying to discourage refunds, by referring to shady customer locked-in-purchase strategies. The coming month (August 2013) is likely to see more disputes regarding refunds as customers loose faith."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2713-time-table-simplified.html#post33138

[YipYip]

The didn't put the cash from past sales in a lock-box until they fulfilled those orders, instead they rely on ongoing sales to fund current operations, like 99.9999% of businesses.

See my post above in bold red. Both statements can't be true.

You're pulling a Dec-2012, pre-order/pre-ship statement by inaba, and expecting it continues to apply two months post-ship?

So, yes Phinnaeus Gage, I believe both statement can be true, although I doubt inaba's ever was.

I'd love to read an accounting regulation that prevents a private business that ships product from using cash from prepaid ORDERS for whatever they wish to spend it on (i.e. R&D, parties, charity, executive perks, and oooops none left for parts?!).

They do have a legal liability to the customer until they ship, so called "unearned revenue", but really just digits on a spreadsheet until someone successfully sues them or forces a refund...no requirement to keep the cash in any lock-box.

You may be right....but

If you have not isolated the pre-payment funds you are open to proofing that an imbezzlement has not taken place and other criminal actvities etc

Having said that the laws are pretty lenient in that even if you have pretended to do a half arse effort and failed... taking millions in funds in directors fees,200k+ salarys and even having other LLC's owned by you provide services such as IT support for 80k a month just to name a few of the old chestnuts .......they should be fine in this regards to criminal law i.e BFL's current state of play

One wildcard fact is Sonny's previous history may give some DA a hard on to really look at WTF has gone on ...lolz

Getting to the point in all of this is once again the never ending lies and deceit that BFL will always say anything to keep the pre-orders flowing

i.e ALL FUNDS HAVE NOT BEEN SPENT AND ARE ISOLATED BLAH BLAH BLAH

They live by the conmans playbook of...... truth is just an inconvenient obstacle that needs to be neutralized every now and again by a few pesky customers who dont buy the SPIN !

Also another point to your failed argument is that as a guesstimate that over ~60%+  of all pre-orders happend before the statements that PG is quoting....so they are valid now completely or at least to 60%

Anyways long and the short socktilla contestant  v6.30 I think we have all discussed this with you over and over again in your many incarnations ...so yeah keep the good work up  

P.S "SUCK IT"

[dominicus]

Hey YipYip,

I'm no BFL lover. I'm a customer that has orders in the endless BFL backlog.  My view, and I believe I've seen BFL posters say so on the BFL forum, is that all "pre-orders" became orders when shipments started.  I think it's safe to assume whatever lock-box they may have had was legally cracked wide open.

I'm not frenetic with anger because:
1. I didn't send BFL thousands of dollars for effen minirigs, and certainly not to the point that I'd turn into an a-hole if I didn't get product on time.
2. I placed my orders later this year, had the benefit of reading this site, and understood the real risks of sending cash to a fly-by-night outfit for a prototype money-making machine.  Surely I should thank you, PG, and countless others for that.
3. I didn't cancel my order, only to later discover BFL actually did have said money-making machines to ship.

I'm incredulously surprised anything functional is coming out of BFL, with such clinically dysfunctional executives. In my book, this was an unlikely outcome.  So pardon me if I choose to stay out of the belligerent crowd, I have my reasons and respect the right of others to blow steam when they have lots more riding on this than me.

I am bothered by those that cling onto and waste their emotional sanity over statements that carry no standing, don't make legal sense, or were physically impossible to accomplish.

If BFL executives decided to give themselves fat retirement accounts and siphon funds into fake contracts, they can shut doors, claim bankruptcy, and not even leave their homes.  Welcome to the USofA, where entrepreneurs (spineless or not) are cherished and protected...just in case, someday, they may become Steve Jobs or even presidential material.

[Threader]

That is just BFL's reality distortion field a la Steve Jobs.

My order is not shipping. Someone elses order is shipping from June 2012. My order is now per commercial rules and definitions a FUCKING BACKORDER.
Gimme my monies back scammers.

[joeventura]

That is just BFL's reality distortion field a la Steve Jobs.

My order is not shipping. Someone elses order is shipping from June 2012. My order is now per commercial rules and definitions a FUCKING BACKORDER.
Gimme my monies back scammers.

Just for the record, Steve Jobs delivered on time.

[YipYip]

Hey YipYip,

I'm no BFL lover. I'm a customer that has orders in the endless BFL backlog.  My view, and I believe I've seen BFL posters say so on the BFL forum, is that all "pre-orders" became orders when shipments started.  I think it's safe to assume whatever lock-box they may have had was legally cracked wide open.

I'm not frenetic with anger because:
1. I didn't send BFL thousands of dollars for effen minirigs, and certainly not to the point that I'd turn into an a-hole if I didn't get product on time.
2. I placed my orders later this year, had the benefit of reading this site, and understood the real risks of sending cash to a fly-by-night outfit for a prototype money-making machine.  Surely I should thank you, PG, and countless others for that.
3. I didn't cancel my order, only to later discover BFL actually did have said money-making machines to ship.

I'm incredulously surprised anything functional is coming out of BFL, with such clinically dysfunctional executives. In my book, this was an unlikely outcome.  So pardon me if I choose to stay out of the belligerent crowd, I have my reasons and respect the right of others to blow steam when they have lots more riding on this than me.

I am bothered by those that cling onto and waste their emotional sanity over statements that carry no standing, don't make legal sense, or were physically impossible to accomplish.

If BFL executives decided to give themselves fat retirement accounts and siphon funds into fake contracts, they can shut doors, claim bankruptcy, and not even leave their homes.  Welcome to the USofA, where entrepreneurs (spineless or not) are cherished and protected...just in case, someday, they may become Steve Jobs or even presidential material.

At least we agree on a large part of "what is" ...cool

Just remember a lot of us have been here watching this never ending tale for a long long time

Also some of the sock puppets and there have been many from BFL have been abosolutely batshit crazy with trying to get the SPIN over the line.... Whatever their motivation

Hopefully with the new players there will be a lvl of professionalism to our community and BFL will disaapear into the void...

We can only hope 

[erk]

That is just BFL's reality distortion field a la Steve Jobs.

My order is not shipping. Someone elses order is shipping from June 2012. My order is now per commercial rules and definitions a FUCKING BACKORDER.
Gimme my monies back scammers.

Just for the record, Steve Jobs delivered on time.

When the first iPad was launched, they took pre-orders via the online Apple store several weeks before the launch date, when the date came around a courier turned up at my door 10am that day with the iPad, he said he felt like Santa with all the smiles he got. That's what I call a pre-order!

[scambutterflylabs]

quote

"Why wait so long to double staff: Our staff makes what we get everyday. If they build all they get everyday, doubling the staff is pointless. Now that more boards are coming daily we can build more each day with more people."


Ok at least we got one new bit of data, they are dealing with supply chain issues everyday, they run out of stuff daily. So currently they are out of some part to build Jalapenos and Singles if you believe Jody

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/267-saturday-miscellaneous-answers.html#comment6566


quote

@BFL_Jody : "Some say we have shipped very few products: If you complain that we ship little and that the difficulty is rising rapidly, you just don't understand how this whole BTC thing works."

Your arrogance towards your customers is absolutely unheard of, your lack of empathy for the people that are responsible for keeping you employed is palpable.
I'm done being treated this way.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/267-saturday-miscellaneous-answers.html#comment6570

[k9quaint]

That is just BFL's reality distortion field a la Steve Jobs.

My order is not shipping. Someone elses order is shipping from June 2012. My order is now per commercial rules and definitions a FUCKING BACKORDER.
Gimme my monies back scammers.

Just for the record, Steve Jobs delivered on time.

When the first iPad was launched, they took pre-orders via the online Apple store several weeks before the launch date, when the date came around a courier turned up at my door 10am that day with the iPad, he said he felt like Santa with all the smiles he got. That's what I call a pre-order!

iPad WiFi pre-orders were 3 weeks in advance. iPad 3G were 6 weeks in advance. Your credit card was authorized, but not charged until Apple shipped your device.
iPad 2 had no pre-orders.
iPad mini had 1 week pre-orders.

But yes, that was a pre-order. Kudos to Apple.

[YipYip]

That is just BFL's reality distortion field a la Steve Jobs.

My order is not shipping. Someone elses order is shipping from June 2012. My order is now per commercial rules and definitions a FUCKING BACKORDER.
Gimme my monies back scammers.

Just for the record, Steve Jobs delivered on time.

When the first iPad was launched, they took pre-orders via the online Apple store several weeks before the launch date, when the date came around a courier turned up at my door 10am that day with the iPad, he said he felt like Santa with all the smiles he got. That's what I call a pre-order!

iPad WiFi pre-orders were 3 weeks in advance. iPad 3G were 6 weeks in advance. Your credit card was authorized, but not charged until Apple shipped your device.
iPad 2 had no pre-orders.
iPad mini had 1 week pre-orders.

But yes, that was a pre-order. Kudos to Apple.

PRE-crypto &BFL

That is what a pre-order was ......2-4 weeks MAX !!!!

BFL have killed this phrase for me forever ...we should contact the grammar police and report a definition crime against humanity !!!

I am sure I am not the only victim in this heinous act against all....BFL are in effect serial grammar definition killers !!!

the body count continues....these are the current victims that have been taken out and counting

1) Pre-order
2) Customer
3) Shipping cost
4) Investor
5) All sales are final ! ...its not a sale until delivery !!
6) we are shipping ...WTF is that supposed to mean...previously if your parcel had left the amazon distrabution center this was the case .... up until that point you could cancel\refund your purchase
7) customer service ...."stop asking me fucking questions otherwise i will cancel your order "

and my personal favourite

8 ) Public relations..........the  delivery platform from the JOSH and JODY show have re-written the book on how to handle the public presence of an organisation.... NIKE should hire them immediately

..."stop crying as you are all arseholes.....Josh

....u have no idea how this all works i am not going to give u facts but just random dates that i keep repeating ,so shutup and did i tell u about my jewelry I am selling....Jody"

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm no BFL lover. I'm a customer that has orders in the endless BFL backlog.  My view, and I believe I've seen BFL posters say so on the BFL forum, is that all "pre-orders" became orders when shipments started.  I think it's safe to assume whatever lock-box they may have had was legally cracked wide open.

Ergo, nary a pre-order satoshi was spent prior to the pseudo-shipping of the Luke Unit, whereupon every last satoshi was immediately at BFL's disposal to do with such as they may, with the exception of obtaining readily available PSUs of which somehow BFL ran short of, although on December 14, 2012, Josh claimed that the warehouse was full of all parts needed to assemble the current backorders at the time. Yet, I even shown that that statement wasn't even true, for a shipment of PSUs from China was shipped to Sonny Vleisides' Walnut Street address.

I'm not a detective, but imagine what a detective would reveal if they were privy to do such during their current investigation of BF Labs Inc. (Butterfly Labs).

Morning, Jody. Anything new besides the calls I'm ignoring from PayPal, the FTC, FCC, NSA, CIA, FBI, them monumental assholes at BitcoinTalk, or that hooker I picked up in NYC?

Nope! But Josh wants to thank you for the practice balloons you sent him...

POP!

I love that sound! Now, if you excuse me...

[erk]

BFL_Jody
Saturday Miscellaneous Answers
by
BFL_Jody
08-04-2013 at 01:08 AM (4067 Views)

    Difference between products: The Jalapeno and the 5gh/s Miner are the same at this point. Those who ordered the Jally are guaranteed 4.5 gh/s + or - 10%. Those ordering the 5 gh/s Miner are guaranteed 5 gh/s + or - 10%. They ship 1-4 per box. The original case and power consumption was supposed to be smaller, so the price we originally charged was lower. With the new parameters, they cost more to make and ship.

    Why wait so long to double staff: Our staff makes what we get everyday. If they build all they get everyday, doubling the staff is pointless. Now that more boards are coming daily we can build more each day with more people.

    Why I don't tell you when you will get your product: I don't make predictions on this blog, because I don't know. When someone here does make a prediction it can be wildly off and then you are angry. We started by telling people when we thought the whole product line would be shipping and everything we thought changed in many ways. If I say I will arrive at work in 20 minutes and then there is an accident on the highway, I run out of gas, the passenger in my car chokes, there is a detour, my car stops running, etc. I may not make it in 20 minutes. We mapped out a plan to create an ASIC product, but having never driven that road before we did not anticipate the things that happened along the way. I do see that we are shipping more and more units everyday as the Production Manager irons out the kinks in our supply chain, but we have hiccups along the way. We depend on overseas manufacturers of parts, carriers that deliver to us (and to you), board manufacturers and many others. We have some parts air-freighted to us while the rest are coming by boat. Since we had to re-vamp our entire product line there are some parts that changed and in various stages of shipment. Recently, one key part was supposed to come in a box of 100. The box broke in shipment and FedEx delivered a broken box with only 20 parts in it. I appreciate all the posts telling us how to multi-source parts arriving at different times and that is what we are doing. The back-picture here looks very different from what you speculate is happening. And no manufacturer goes online to tell their customers about every detail of their production process.

    Luxury of having our customers pay in advance: The customer decides whether he will take the offer of paying in advance and getting in line or not buying the product at all. If you don't want to pay up front and assume part of the risk of the production of the product, don't order from us. We have always stated that all sales were final unless we fail to make any product.

    Some say we have shipped very few products: If you complain that we ship little and that the difficulty is rising rapidly, you just don't understand how this whole BTC thing works.

    I know I haven't answered all your questions, but these are the ones I can answer right now.

I do like the bit about shipping little, but the difficulty is rising rapidly. Kind of a contradiction.

[nexus99]

I wonder how much of the new hash power is Avalon vs BFL vs AsicMiner. And with Bitfury almost here...

[scambutterflylabs]

quote:

"The thing that really seems like a slap in the face, dishonest and down right deceitful is that all of the products you can order today say "delivery may take 2 months or more after order"... Ok I know it says "or more" but you really might as way say delivery will take two days or more, it's the same difference. That statement implies that there is some belief that orders placed now would ship in two months give or take, when there is no indication of that.... in fact Jody states here that she does not know, yet it still says two months or more on the product page. Someone going to the order page for the first time (now or months ago, as this phrase has been on the order page for I don't know how long, over two months now to be sure) reading that statement without going here first would think hey, a few months isn't that bad. Greed and dishonesty by BFL, plain and simple.

SO when it comes right down to it, BFL is ok with lying to people, or at the least being very misleading. As an extension of that, I really don't see any point in listening to any of these updates as I wouldn't put any more stock in them, we have seen repeated claims that units will be delivered by x only for those estimates to be missed without any credible explanation... so while people ask for numbers of units shipped and more details, I'm thinking what is the point, they will just lie to you.

So either a lie or no information... which is better?"

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/267-saturday-miscellaneous-answers-page5.html#comment6680

[dominicus]

Yep...they should really update the product listings.  How's this?


BFL Bitcoin Appliances

Shipment in 6+ months
Original retro design
100% guaranteed to promote bitcoin network health
Best when plugged to free sources of power

[bitdig]

Just got an email from BFL, asking if I want to order one of their unit (I sent them an email few months ago with some question regarding shipping, without placing an order), here it is:

>We have a couple options for you, you can purchase the ASIC chips or ASIC miners themselves on our website.  Please checkout our products page for more information:
https://products.butterflylabs.com/

>hi, aren't you still having very long waiting time?

>Yes. we started shipping April 24 and are now shipping all product lines. You can follow shipping progress here:
For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at <https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/>

[Flying Hellfish]

Just got an email from BFL, asking if I want to order one of their unit (I sent them an email few months ago with some question regarding shipping, without placing an order), here it is:

>We have a couple options for you, you can purchase the ASIC chips or ASIC miners themselves on our website.  Please checkout our products page for more information:
https://products.butterflylabs.com/

>hi, aren't you still having very long waiting time?

>Yes. we started shipping April 24 and are now shipping all product lines. You can follow shipping progress here:
For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at <https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/>

BFL appears to have:
Stopped "firing customers" (not sure which retard thought this was a good long term business model anyways LOL), started refusing refunds, possible supply chain problems, started sending emails asking people to buy their product, a lot more refund requests.

These all appear to be a direct 180 of the things that BFL has done in the last 9-14 months. I wonder why they have done such a stark about face recently, could it be that pre-orders and money are starting to dry up?   

[dominicus]

Just got an email from BFL, asking if I want to order one of their unit (I sent them an email few months ago with some question regarding shipping, without placing an order), here it is:

>We have a couple options for you, you can purchase the ASIC chips or ASIC miners themselves on our website.  Please checkout our products page for more information:
https://products.butterflylabs.com/

>hi, aren't you still having very long waiting time?

>Yes. we started shipping April 24 and are now shipping all product lines. You can follow shipping progress here:
For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at <https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/>

BFL appears to have:
Stopped "firing customers" (not sure which retard thought this was a good long term business model anyways LOL), started refusing refunds, possible supply chain problems, started sending emails asking people to buy their product, a lot more refund requests.

These all appear to be a direct 180 of the things that BFL has done in the last 9-14 months. I wonder why they have done such a stark about face recently, could it be that pre-orders and money are starting to dry up?   

They may be prepping the market for a new ASIC release.  I don't think their order influx, however severely impaired by their past incompetence, has totally dried up.  For every GHps in Erupters sold, BFL must still be selling 7x as many.

They'd be well advised to forgo any product announcements until they can ship at least one product with new technology.

[scambutterflylabs]

quote BFL_Jody

"Monday, August 5, 2012 Shipping Update

Jalapenos: None shipped; still at Nov. 14, 2012

Little Singles: Now shipping August 2, 2012

Singles: Still shipping June 26 (a couple of LARGE orders left to ship)

MiniRigs: Quite a few MiniRigs shipped. They are shipped 500 Gh/s at a time, so each order ships 1/3 of a full Rig each time. All June Orders have been shipped at least one Rig per order. Now starting 1st Rig of July orders and 2nd Rig of June Orders. If you don't have a MiniRig order just ignore this conversation.

Thanks for all your posts to the Saturday Marathon. I need to close comments for awhile so I can concentrate on shipping. I do read all your comments, though. who was that masked man BCP19?"

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/270-monday-august-5-2012-shipping-update.html

[erk]

If all the June Minirig orders have received at least one 500GH/s unit, that's quite a few TH/s added to the net already.

[nexus99]

TH/s is exploding.

[Xian01]

TH/s is exploding.

 Yeah, gut is telling me the Bitfury mines are powering up.

EDIT: ...and if you are into conspiracy theories, I came across this link here on the forums yesterday :: http://bflfraud.com/

<tinfoilhat>
"Joe told me that this was not the first Minirig which had gone out the back door because he had done this sort of display setup around thirty times and had even brokered one or two on ebay. He also told me that within an hour of my departure from the Tracy Street location the Minirig would be moved to a “secret” location which would be the third location owned by J.Morgan"
</tinfoilhat>

[Ytterbium]

There was a huge apparent spike earlier today, but BTCguild had insanely high luck on some of it's shifts: https://www.btcguild.com/index.php?page=pplns  152%, 149% and then 190%.  That could account for what looked like a huge spike.

[erk]

Tuesday, August 6, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
08-07-2013 at 01:03 PM

    Jalapenos: Nov 16, 2012 pay date

    Little Singles: August 6, 2012 pay date

    Singles: June 26, 27, 2012 pay date

    MiniRigs: July 15 for first of three 500 gh/s units; June 23 for second of three 500 gh/s units

    Production in all lines increasing.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/

[a2offrb]

Tuesday, August 6, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
08-07-2013 at 01:03 PM

    Jalapenos: Nov 16, 2012 pay date

    Little Singles: August 6, 2012 pay date

    Singles: June 26, 27, 2012 pay date

    MiniRigs: July 15 for first of three 500 gh/s units; June 23 for second of three 500 gh/s units

    Production in all lines increasing.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/

Thank you for your copy-paste.
No one know this blog url before.

[erk]

Thank you for your copy-paste.
No one know this blog url before.

This is a thread about BFL shipping, if you don't like it leave.

[dominicus]

[kmtan]

Hey All,

Just came across this article on CoinDesk, figured I'd share it: http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/

They claim to be shipping 300 units a day; the fact that very very few of you have been receiving yours makes that possibility a little scary... They're shipping orders in the order in which they were received, but even if they were only shipping 5 GH/s units, that's 1.5 TH/s a day being added to the network; 45 TH/s a month. Scary stuff!

i just see that BFL is ship th order for 5GH/s order by Nov 2012..

[a2offrb]

Thank you for your copy-paste.
No one know this blog url before.

This is a thread about BFL shipping, if you don't like it leave.

There is some others threads about BFL shipping, and everyone that copy-paste same info that is in blog in my opinion just increasing post count
by meaningless posts.
This thread is about BFL
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.2600

If you going to make 1kk different threads about BFL: Shipping, Boxing, Ordering, Spamming, Promises, Lies etc... this forum will be full of BFL threads.

This thread is just joking about Josh lies about shipping units/day and is not official topic about BFL products.

Still all this is my opinion, if you dont like it - dont read it.

[Threader]

ALL A PACK OF LIES FROM BFL

What was really happening was BFL were hoping for 300 pre-orders a day with no intention to ship more than it would take to keep the pre-orders coming and shipping only what was necessary to placate the masses of angry and frustrated clients.

[geofflosophy]

ALL A PACK OF LIES FROM BFL

What was really happening was BFL were hoping for 300 pre-orders a day with no intention to ship more than it would take to keep the pre-orders coming and shipping only what was necessary to placate the masses of angry and frustrated clients.

The masses don't exactly seem placated...

[Threader]

Count me in front of the line as Non-Placated 

[k9quaint]

If all the June Minirig orders have received at least one 500GH/s unit, that's quite a few TH/s added to the net already.

Yes, all 6 mini-rig pre-orders from June 2012 have received 1/3rd of their order. 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

If all the June Minirig orders have received at least one 500GH/s unit, that's quite a few TH/s added to the net already.

Yes, all 6 mini-rig pre-orders from June 2012 have received 1/3rd of their order.  

It's not everyday that a person pays for a complete product but only receives a 1/3 and is happy about it.

Also, I don't think the same people who are receiving other units sans PSUs would do the same if they ordered another product of which their livelihood depend upon said purchase.


You have the option of waiting or taking delivery now sans the PSU.

[Threader]

If all the June Minirig orders have received at least one 500GH/s unit, that's quite a few TH/s added to the net already.

Yes, all 6 mini-rig pre-orders from June 2012 have received 1/3rd of their order. 

How convenient that they overestimated their ASIC's power efficiencies. Would of been a problem taking a chainsaw to a single 1500GH/s unit

[Xian01]

https://i.imgur.com/Rl9eGkF.jpg

 Giving credit where credit is due, this is really fucking funny.

[erk]

Wednesday, August 7, 2012 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
08-08-2013 at 01:32 PM

    Jalapenos: Nov 16, 2012 pay date

    Little Singles: August 15, 2012 pay date

    Singles: June 26, 27, 2012 pay date

    MiniRigs: July 17, 2012 for first of three 500 gh/s units; June 23, 2012 for second of three 500 gh/s units

    Not only are there a lot of orders for early June, a lot of people had big orders.

    Should ship more Jalapenos and Singles tomorrow.

I guess one day they will get to my 2013 orders.

[YipYip]

Wednesday, August 7, 2012 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
08-08-2013 at 01:32 PM

    Jalapenos: Nov 16, 2012 pay date

    Little Singles: August 15, 2012 pay date

    Singles: June 26, 27, 2012 pay date

    MiniRigs: July 17, 2012 for first of three 500 gh/s units; June 23, 2012 for second of three 500 gh/s units

    Not only are there a lot of orders for early June, a lot of people had big orders.

    Should ship more Jalapenos and Singles tomorrow.

I guess one day they will get to my 2013 orders.

So now we are the big bad trolls who have all of these evil alterior motives to try and scam you ...or trying to warn ppl

maybe u see our point of view...as they all do eventually

......lolz

[OmegaNemesis28]

The arrogance is strong with this "business".
why do we continue to put up with it?
Some really good points:
http://redd.it/1jmwlq

[Micon]

1) I have to hand it Facebook, I have never used something so much that I hate with such a passion and cannot bring my stupid, weak human brain to delete the account as many times as I've hovered the link and read about account closure:



2) but of course BFL is far greater evil.  Yes, they have approved and paid for an ad citing 72 hour shipping.

[Bitcoinorama]

1) I have to hand it Facebook, I have never used something so much that I hate with such a passion and cannot bring my stupid, weak human brain to delete the account as many times as I've hovered the link and read about account closure:



2) but of course BFL is far greater evil.  Yes, they have approved and paid for an ad citing 72 hour shipping.

Wow, that's bad, is that really real?!

[Xian01]

Wow, that's bad, is that really real?!

 That's pretty brazen if it's in-fact a real advertisement. It's outright false advertising if so.

EDIT: Confirmed on reddit to be a scam and unrelated to BFL entirely.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1jwx4u/warning_this_facebook_ad_is_a_scam_if_you_click/

[Tigggger]

Wow, that's bad, is that really real?!

 That's pretty brazen if it's in-fact a real advertisement. It's outright false advertising if so.

BFL don't lie therefore it must be facebook's fault. Expect BFL's lawyers to be on the case if you haven't been keeping them too busy 

[ibminer]

1) I have to hand it Facebook, I have never used something so much that I hate with such a passion and cannot bring my stupid, weak human brain to delete the account as many times as I've hovered the link and read about account closure:



2) but of course BFL is far greater evil.  Yes, they have approved and paid for an ad citing 72 hour shipping.

I read somewhere that the link this ad takes you to is not actually BFL...
Micon - did you click on the link?


EDIT: btw - the 'somewhere' I read it at is:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1jwx4u/warning_this_facebook_ad_is_a_scam_if_you_click/

[Micon]

so like... you are allowed to blatantly trick facebook users with a wrong URL in your ad?

how is this up days later?

Sorry for being a n00b it seems like a really huge hole in FB ads...

with BFL being one of the filthiest companies around the ad really didn't shock me all that much.  In fact it seemed like a logical next marketing step as they circle the drain.

[YipYip]

so like... you are allowed to blatantly trick facebook users with a wrong URL in your ad?

how is this up days later?

Sorry for being a n00b it seems like a really huge hole in FB ads...

with BFL being one of the filthiest companies around the ad really didn't shock me all that much.  In fact it seemed like a logical next marketing step as they circle the drain.

Agreed ... the idea that it was real and not  fake ..shows what level of morality is expected from this  group of conmen

[Bicknellski]

so like... you are allowed to blatantly trick facebook users with a wrong URL in your ad?

how is this up days later?

Sorry for being a n00b it seems like a really huge hole in FB ads...

with BFL being one of the filthiest companies around the ad really didn't shock me all that much.  In fact it seemed like a logical next marketing step as they circle the drain.

Agreed ... the idea that it was real and not  fake ..shows what level of morality is expected from this  group of conmen

Anyone report it?

[scambutterflylabs]

http://bfl.miningrigstuff.com/

[dominicus]

BFL 2nd-gen pre-order model....wait for it:

https://www.eliomotors.com/make-a-reservation/

[Phinnaeus Gage]

BFL 2nd-gen pre-order model....wait for it:

https://www.eliomotors.com/make-a-reservation/

I like the part where it states: Be a hardcore BeoFiLe!

[Turbor]

BFL 2nd-gen pre-order model....wait for it:

https://www.eliomotors.com/make-a-reservation/

If it had 4 wheels I would buy one.

[scambutterflylabs]

quote BFL forum

"ASIC Pre-Shipment Testing Policy OR why shipment is so slow
Ever since BFL started shipping orders , I was wondering why it is taking them so long to fulfill everything

If it takes only 5 min to assemble , units should have been flying out the door .
If they have `problems with the supply chain and it is not solved by now , 3 months into shipping , somebody needs to pay the price and go home.
Maybe they don't work hard or long hours ? This could be an option as well .

I like to look at this from a different angle
Every unit that is built , goes through a 'burn in' test . Running the unit for 24 hours to make sure its ok . This is a great policy and I am very happy about it . But ...

Lets talk numbers , and I must state its my assumptions :
According to Josh , Jala will be built at the rate of 400 units a day . Let's assume they are at 100 units a day . This is equal to 500GH (+-10%)
60x30GH = 1.8TH
30X50GH= 1.5TH
One mini rig = 500GH

This total to 5.3-5.5 TH , running on 24/7

At the current difficulty , this comes to 6.5k$ . Every day . Nice

Now , why should I hurry and ship ?

Maybe I am wrong here and I like to apologize if I am .

The fact that BFL activities are not transparent to their customers , makes me wonder"

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/jalapeno-single-sc-support/4233-asic-pre-shipment-testing-policy-why-shipment-so-slow.html

[erk]

Monday, August 19, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
08-20-2013 at 01:49 PM

    Jalapenos: All 4.5 gh/s Jalapenos through Dec 31, 2012 pay date shipped today. Anyone with a 6.5 gh/s upgraded Jalapeno will be shipped tomorrow through this paydate.

    Little Singles: Oct. 5, 2012 pay date

    Singles: July 3, 2012 pay date

    MiniRigs: MiniRigs for June 23 (2nd 500gh/s unit) and July 22 for 1st 500 gh/s This line was static with no shipments today.

With some celebration, it looks like the first 2013 ordered Jalapenos might ship this week!

[YipYip]

Monday, August 19, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
08-20-2013 at 01:49 PM

    Jalapenos: All 4.5 gh/s Jalapenos through Dec 31, 2012 pay date shipped today. Anyone with a 6.5 gh/s upgraded Jalapeno will be shipped tomorrow through this paydate.

    Little Singles: Oct. 5, 2012 pay date

    Singles: July 3, 2012 pay date

    MiniRigs: MiniRigs for June 23 (2nd 500gh/s unit) and July 22 for 1st 500 gh/s This line was static with no shipments today.

With some celebration, it looks like the first 2013 ordered Jalapenos might ship this week!

Awesome ..for some they only have another 7 months to go !!

[Ytterbium]

Monday, August 19, 2013 Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
08-20-2013 at 01:49 PM

    Jalapenos: All 4.5 gh/s Jalapenos through Dec 31, 2012 pay date shipped today. Anyone with a 6.5 gh/s upgraded Jalapeno will be shipped tomorrow through this paydate.

    Little Singles: Oct. 5, 2012 pay date

    Singles: July 3, 2012 pay date

    MiniRigs: MiniRigs for June 23 (2nd 500gh/s unit) and July 22 for 1st 500 gh/s This line was static with no shipments today.

With some celebration, it looks like the first 2013 ordered Jalapenos might ship this week!

OMFG.  Can you imagine being someone who ordered 1.5TH/s mini-rig in the summer of '12? You probably wouldn't see your third unit until next year at which point you'll be able to order 1.5TH/s for $5k.

[dominicus]

Monarch-induced Osbourne syndrome:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

At this point, BTC has better probability of making it to $300 by Sep, than my unit arriving this year.

[nexus99]

My prediction is that it will take 2 more months for all the Jallys to be caught up.

[joeventura]

My prediction is that it will take 2 more months for all the Jallys to be caught up.

Sorry brother, it just gets so much worse.

Have you looked at:  http://bfl.ptz.ro/  ?

83 Jally in January to Clear
then 226 in February
then 414 in March
and then 941 in April

and that is assuming http://bfl.ptz.ro/ is accurate which you know it is on the low side.

[Xian01]

Monarch-induced Osbourne syndrome:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

 Fascinating ! TIL. Thanks for the link.

[erk]

Can this really be Thursday? Shipping Update
by
BFL_Jody
08-23-2013 at 10:26 AM

    Jalapenos: January 21, 2013

    Little Singles: Oct. 11, 2012 pay date

    Singles: July 5, 2012 pay date

    MiniRigs: MiniRigs for June 23 (2nd 500gh/s unit) and July 28 for 1st 500 gh/s

    Observations:
    People who ordered Jalapenos usually only ordered one.
    People who ordered Singles often ordered 3, 6, 12 or more.
    People who ordered in January hardly wrote us any emails.
    People who order MiniRigs don't ask for refunds ...

Jalapenos recently have been going out at about a weeks worth or orders per day.

[warhawk187]

I just received my Little Single ordered on 10/07/2012 and received it today 08/22/2013. Luckily hashing away at 30.5Gh/s, although this thing is as loud as my old 5970.

[erk]

I just received my Little Single ordered on 10/07/2012 and received it today 08/22/2013. Luckily hashing away at 30.5Gh/s, although this thing is as loud as my old 5970.

Pull the loud fans out and replace it with the types that has the switch to change speeds.

[warhawk187]

Any suggestions? What how much CFM are these pushing stock?

[dominicus]

BFL shipping Feb'13 orders and training new workers.
Monarch BTC must be rolling in.

[erk]

BFL shipping Feb'13 orders and training new workers.
Monarch BTC must be rolling in.

They still have a pool of money to come in next month or so when they ship the bulk chip orders, remember they only took 50% payment for those, so there is 50% more waiting for them, which I think was a wise move.

They could even announce another round of chip sales after the first round is delivered, say at $40-$50 per chip, and they would still be competitive with many of the 28nm offers out there, a community of DIY boards tested/shipped would go a long way to restore faith.