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Author Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)  (Read 1058520 times)
VolanicEruptor
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August 19, 2013, 07:42:02 PM
 #2341

<snip>

A lot of people there think 130nm is out of date and obsolite, though. They don't realize that what matters is $/W and a cheaper to tape out chip wins in the short run, and over time Labcoin will have time to reduce feature size.

+1. This certainly worked for AsicMiner and they started out with an even smaller amount of seed funds. At some point all mining operations will need to get more cost efficient and they'll need to be creative for sourcing electricity but that doesn't mean that an initial rush to 28nm is the right answer.

You're right, but I'll put my money on both ends of the spectrum.   There are short-term and long-term advantages with going both routes.

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JohnyBigs
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August 19, 2013, 07:51:41 PM
 #2342

Can someone explain to me what kind of hashrate you can buy for $4,000 with labcoin?
VolanicEruptor
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August 19, 2013, 07:55:43 PM
 #2343

Can someone explain to me what kind of hashrate you can buy for $4,000 with labcoin?

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Chip Specs: Multi-core 130 nm chip with power consumption of: 2.7 w/Ghash. Each chip runs at 4.7 GH/s @ 12.8W
Chip estimated cost (full production run post First-run): $9-$10 USD per chip or $2 per GH

with the 130nm chip, $4000 would produce 2TH/S of hashpower, according to this..

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August 19, 2013, 07:56:09 PM
 #2344

What's the status of the locked shares?

I think they have more important things to focus on right now.

I'm sure they do, but that's not the point here.

There were plenty announcements that the founder and developers start to post here and even more announcements about the shares and yet no founder or developer is active in this thread and the share issue is still unresolved.

I don't expect the devs to check in here and I'm also not that interested in a public portfolio, but once they say, they'll do it, I expect them to do it. That's all. Wink

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August 19, 2013, 07:57:54 PM
 #2345

Can someone explain to me what kind of hashrate you can buy for $4,000 with labcoin?

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Chip Specs: Multi-core 130 nm chip with power consumption of: 2.7 w/Ghash. Each chip runs at 4.7 GH/s @ 12.8W
Chip estimated cost (full production run post First-run): $9-$10 USD per chip or $2 per GH

with the 130nm chip, $4000 would produce 2TH/S of hashpower, according to this..
28nm my ass!!
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August 19, 2013, 07:58:49 PM
 #2346

Can someone explain to me what kind of hashrate you can buy for $4,000 with labcoin?

Quote
Chip Specs: Multi-core 130 nm chip with power consumption of: 2.7 w/Ghash. Each chip runs at 4.7 GH/s @ 12.8W
Chip estimated cost (full production run post First-run): $9-$10 USD per chip or $2 per GH

with the 130nm chip, $4000 would produce 2TH/S of hashpower, according to this..

and how much of that do they payout in dividends every month?
redbeans2012
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August 19, 2013, 08:01:46 PM
 #2347

Can someone explain to me what kind of hashrate you can buy for $4,000 with labcoin?

Quote
Chip Specs: Multi-core 130 nm chip with power consumption of: 2.7 w/Ghash. Each chip runs at 4.7 GH/s @ 12.8W
Chip estimated cost (full production run post First-run): $9-$10 USD per chip or $2 per GH

with the 130nm chip, $4000 would produce 2TH/S of hashpower, according to this..

and how much of that do they payout in dividends every month?

70 - 80%

https://btct.co/security/LABCOIN
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August 19, 2013, 08:03:50 PM
 #2348

Can someone explain to me what kind of hashrate you can buy for $4,000 with labcoin?

Quote
Chip Specs: Multi-core 130 nm chip with power consumption of: 2.7 w/Ghash. Each chip runs at 4.7 GH/s @ 12.8W
Chip estimated cost (full production run post First-run): $9-$10 USD per chip or $2 per GH

with the 130nm chip, $4000 would produce 2TH/S of hashpower, according to this..

and how much of that do they payout in dividends every month?

70 - 80%

https://btct.co/security/LABCOIN

So you can effectively buy 1.2TH/S with around $4,000 which makes them about $3.5/GH?
Ytterbium
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August 19, 2013, 08:20:34 PM
 #2349

<snip>

A lot of people there think 130nm is out of date and obsolite, though. They don't realize that what matters is $/W and a cheaper to tape out chip wins in the short run, and over time Labcoin will have time to reduce feature size.

+1. This certainly worked for AsicMiner and they started out with an even smaller amount of seed funds. At some point all mining operations will need to get more cost efficient and they'll need to be creative for sourcing electricity but that doesn't mean that an initial rush to 28nm is the right answer.

Labcoin had already taped out their 130nm chip when they did their IPO.  The IPO was to raise money for their 65nm chip and pay for massive 130nm orders.

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August 19, 2013, 08:25:43 PM
 #2350

<snip>

A lot of people there think 130nm is out of date and obsolite, though. They don't realize that what matters is $/W and a cheaper to tape out chip wins in the short run, and over time Labcoin will have time to reduce feature size.

+1. This certainly worked for AsicMiner and they started out with an even smaller amount of seed funds. At some point all mining operations will need to get more cost efficient and they'll need to be creative for sourcing electricity but that doesn't mean that an initial rush to 28nm is the right answer.

Labcoin had already taped out their 130nm chip when they did their IPO.  The IPO was to raise money for their 65nm chip and pay for massive 130nm orders.

People were always hating on the "outdated" chip technology these guys were offering, but the more you think about it, the smarter this game plan sounds. Have the reliable tech first. Excited for sure about these guys.
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August 19, 2013, 08:26:43 PM
 #2351

My back of the envelope calculations put the value of the 6TH running on 10/1 at .000605 / share and the remaining 44TH running on 10/15 at .002435/share, for an expected value of at least .0031

EDIT: These calculations assume 35% increase per Difficulty Increase

The number I got was a lot less than your numbers. 0.0006/share is possible with 50TH.
0.0024/share is not possible with 50TH. I predict Labcoin will achieve around 1% of the network and get 0.000084/share in the first few weeks which will eventually be around 0.0005/share by October when they have closer to 50TH.

Anyone else want to do a calculation?
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August 19, 2013, 08:30:48 PM
 #2352

My back of the envelope calculations put the value of the 6TH running on 10/1 at .000605 / share and the remaining 44TH running on 10/15 at .002435/share, for an expected value of at least .0031

EDIT: These calculations assume 35% increase per Difficulty Increase

 .000605 / share per what timeframe?


Total expected value of the mining capability - basically I've charted it out until June 2015

Perhaps you worded it wrong. Perhaps you meant to say 0.000605 / share dividend? in October and then I'd agree with you it's possible if unlikely. Perhaps you mean 0.024 is the current value of the stock price and then I'd agree with you. But you worded it confusing.
oxideNL
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August 19, 2013, 08:33:54 PM
 #2353


I'm sure they do, but that's not the point here.

There were plenty announcements that the founder and developers start to post here and even more announcements about the shares and yet no founder or developer is active in this thread and the share issue is still unresolved.

I don't expect the devs to check in here and I'm also not that interested in a public portfolio, but once they say, they'll do it, I expect them to do it. That's all. Wink

Read the update by swede :  

UPDATE:


- Labcoin has not forgotten about Fabrizio and Developers doing Q/A sessions and the other issues brought to our attention, but currently focus is on time-to-market and all available personnel is 100% committed to a successful mining operation.

- The Labcoin.com website will also be updated shortly and the new design will include real-time statistics of mining operation where visitors can follow miner deployment and hashing speed of the mining operation. More on this later.




I guess we'll see that soon enough Smiley give it some weeks
twentyseventy
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August 19, 2013, 08:36:20 PM
 #2354

My back of the envelope calculations put the value of the 6TH running on 10/1 at .000605 / share and the remaining 44TH running on 10/15 at .002435/share, for an expected value of at least .0031

EDIT: These calculations assume 35% increase per Difficulty Increase

 .000605 / share per what timeframe?


Total expected value of the mining capability - basically I've charted it out until June 2015

You're numbers are absolutely impossible. The dividends cannot be that high.
0.02435/share is impossible. 0.0006 is possible but unlikely given difficulty increasing exponentially.  I think you're trying to pump up the value of the stock price.

Perhaps you just said it wrong. Perhaps you meant to say 0.000605 / share dividend in October and then I'd agree with you. Perhaps you mean 0.024 is the value of the stock price and then I'd agree with you. But you worded it confusing.

I'm going to refrain from ballparking any more numbers since it's really a very rough, very estimated number at this point in any case. What I meant, however, was what the total mining revenue would be over the miner's useful lifetime (about 1.5-2 years). I had estimated using 6TH starting about 1 October and the remaining 46TH starting about 15 October.
SebastianJu
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August 19, 2013, 08:37:23 PM
 #2355

Do i see it correctly that you think the actual shareprice is already overvalued before the real hashing starts? Are the 50TH the end? I guess with the rule to pay out the shareholders first there will be no new investment in new TH soon, so the 50TH will remain for a while right?

@Luckybit... you forgot 0 zero in decimals.
demzie
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August 19, 2013, 08:42:15 PM
 #2356

Do i see it correctly that you think the actual shareprice is already overvalued before the real hashing starts? Are the 50TH the end? I guess with the rule to pay out the shareholders first there will be no new investment in new TH soon, so the 50TH will remain for a while right?

@Luckybit... you forgot 0 zero in decimals.

-Pay regular dividends amounting to a percentual share of ownership in the company on a bi-weekly basis. The dividends paid will consist of between 70-80% all profits while 20-30% of profits will be held as a reinvestment fund for development, marketing and manufacturing. ALL share holders have the right to an equal share of dividends directly based on their ownerhsip.

From their details.. So i assume 50 is not the end station.
Luckybit
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August 19, 2013, 08:45:52 PM
 #2357

Do i see it correctly that you think the actual shareprice is already overvalued before the real hashing starts? Are the 50TH the end? I guess with the rule to pay out the shareholders first there will be no new investment in new TH soon, so the 50TH will remain for a while right?

@Luckybit... you forgot 0 zero in decimals.

-Pay regular dividends amounting to a percentual share of ownership in the company on a bi-weekly basis. The dividends paid will consist of between 70-80% all profits while 20-30% of profits will be held as a reinvestment fund for development, marketing and manufacturing. ALL share holders have the right to an equal share of dividends directly based on their ownerhsip.

From their details.. So i assume 50 is not the end station.

I would expect that they would hash with as many chips as they can afford which don't get sold off. That will have to be a lot more than 50TH but I think they are doing it in stages of 50TH to build up to hundreds of TH and eventually thousands of TH. Difficulty will force this to happen and I think they said the goal was 10% of the network.
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August 19, 2013, 08:57:06 PM
 #2358

My back of the envelope calculations put the value of the 6TH running on 10/1 at .000605 / share and the remaining 44TH running on 10/15 at .002435/share, for an expected value of at least .0031

EDIT: These calculations assume 35% increase per Difficulty Increase

 .000605 / share per what timeframe?


Total expected value of the mining capability - basically I've charted it out until June 2015

Perhaps you worded it wrong. Perhaps you meant to say 0.000605 / share dividend in October and then I'd agree with you. Perhaps you mean 0.024 is the value of the stock price and then I'd agree with you. But you worded it confusing.

Network Hash Rate = 450 Th/s
Mine Hash Rate = 50 Th/s
50 * 100 / 450 = 11.11%

Blocks/Round = 2016
Bitcoin/Block = 25 BTC
Bitcoin/Round = 2016 * 25 = 50,400 BTC

50,400 * 11.11% = 5,599.44 BTC
5,599.44 BTC / 10,000,000 shares = 0.00055994 BTC per share per round.

So, even if Labcoin had 50 Th/s right now, divs (twice a week) from mining would be about 0.00013 BTC.


TheSwede75
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August 19, 2013, 09:01:37 PM
 #2359

Do i see it correctly that you think the actual shareprice is already overvalued before the real hashing starts? Are the 50TH the end? I guess with the rule to pay out the shareholders first there will be no new investment in new TH soon, so the 50TH will remain for a while right?

@Luckybit... you forgot 0 zero in decimals.

The IPO dividend will be sufficient to roll out quite a bit more than 50TH and with 30% reinvestment and 65nm development running parallel labcoin has no plans on stopping production or mining rollout at 50TH.

The 6-50TH is only the short term mining goal. Outside of that labcoin also intends to sell bulk chips, possibly consumer grade mining equipment and of course transition into sales and mining using 65nm technology when development is ready.
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August 19, 2013, 09:03:11 PM
 #2360

My back of the envelope calculations put the value of the 6TH running on 10/1 at .000605 / share and the remaining 44TH running on 10/15 at .002435/share, for an expected value of at least .0031

EDIT: These calculations assume 35% increase per Difficulty Increase

 .000605 / share per what timeframe?


Total expected value of the mining capability - basically I've charted it out until June 2015

Perhaps you worded it wrong. Perhaps you meant to say 0.000605 / share dividend in October and then I'd agree with you. Perhaps you mean 0.024 is the value of the stock price and then I'd agree with you. But you worded it confusing.

Network Hash Rate = 450 Th/s
Mine Hash Rate = 50 Th/s
50 * 100 / 450 = 11.11%

Blocks/Round = 2016
Bitcoin/Block = 25 BTC
Bitcoin/Round = 2016 * 25 = 50,400 BTC

50,400 * 11.11% = 5,599.44 BTC
5,599.44 BTC / 10,000,000 shares = 0.00055994 BTC per share per round.

So, even if Labcoin had 50 Th/s right now, divs (twice a week) from mining would be about 0.00013 BTC.




Your math is wrong.  Typically it does not take 2 weeks to finish a "round."
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