kmtan
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I love Bitcoin
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October 08, 2013, 08:32:48 AM |
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labcoin.....too much excuse from them ...i sold all the share at very early stage after purchase in with a little lost...
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BitThink
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October 08, 2013, 08:38:45 AM |
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Scam has to be punished.
Otherwise, even if we lose little or even gain a little in this case, we may lose a lot in another one. Even we are always careful and lucky, the public confidence will go away and eventually be harmful to the whole bitcoin economy.
That's the reason why we have to find a way to fight with this scam no matter whether we are victims or not.
Moreover, if a registered company with CEO's name listed in a scam and this guy can be free of penalty by just saying "I don't know anything and I am not really involved", then don't expect any future (virtual) IPO can have any creditability.
How about let's create a volunteer group to unite us together in taking legal action against Fabriazio and Allesia?
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Puppet
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October 08, 2013, 08:53:52 AM |
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They claimed to collect 7000 BTC for mass production of gen1 chips and design gen2 chips. If we can prove these BTC are not used in these two purposes, In fact, we can actually prove they did spend some money to develop these chips (cf Howard wang and TheSeven) and they could easily argue that development is ongoing. Missing deadlines and being or hiring incompetent people is not a crime. Selling unregistered securities however, is. As is making materially incorrect statements in your prospectus. But those are SEC issues. Fabriazio is deceiving since he is the legal representative of the company that initiating this (virtual) IPO.
How would you prove that? The IPO was done by "sam", no one knows who he is or if he even exists. How do you prove Fabrizio is even involved? Dont get me wrong, I have no doubt he is involved, as is Alberto, but IMO you will not be able to prove this without getting the SEC involved and subpoena BTCT. Those documents that were published dont prove a damn thing, I dont even see Fabrizio's signature on there. Anyone could produce those. |
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BitThink
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October 08, 2013, 09:02:36 AM |
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They claimed to collect 7000 BTC for mass production of gen1 chips and design gen2 chips. If we can prove these BTC are not used in these two purposes, In fact, we can actually prove they did spend some money to develop these chips (cf Howard wang and TheSeven) and they could easily argue that development is ongoing. Missing deadlines and being or hiring incompetent people is not a crime. Selling unregistered securities however, is. As is making materially incorrect statements in your prospectus. But those are SEC issues. Fabriazio is deceiving since he is the legal representative of the company that initiating this (virtual) IPO.
How would you prove that? The IPO was done by "sam", no one knows who he is or if he even exists. How do you prove Fabrizio is even involved? Dont get me wrong, I have no doubt he is involved, as is Alberto, but IMO you will not be able to prove this without getting the SEC involved and subpoena BTCT. Those documents that were published dont prove a damn thing, I dont even see Fabrizio's signature on there. Anyone could produce those. Fabriazio admitted himself he has signed a contract, and Howard met him face to face. So he definitely is involved. He has to find a lawyer, not us, to defence for him. Whether to report to SEC or police does not matter. Why not just report to both? |
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Puppet
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October 08, 2013, 09:11:50 AM |
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Fabriazio admitted himself he has signed a contract, Correction; some anonymous forum members (including yours truly) claim that someone who appeared to be Fabrizio claimed that on IRC or through facebook/G+. You will need something better to convince a judge that he really is behind all this. and Howard met him face to face. See above. Whether to report to SEC or police does not matter. Why not just report to both? Dont ask me, I suggested duped investors do that a long time ago. Just dont hold your breath for anyone actually doing it; afaik the only bitcoin scammer that really is in legal trouble is Pirate. And guess who is to thank for that? Indeed, the SEC. Im not even sure anyone else filed a complaint. |
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BitThink
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October 08, 2013, 09:18:27 AM |
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I agree with you on reporting to SEC is a good idea.
I just cannot agree that if a company and the name of its legal representative are listed on the IPO contract and this IPO turns out to be a scam, this company and its founder can be free from even investigating by just saying he is innocent.
That's ridiculous. Then what's the point to list any company name and human name in the contract? If this is allowed, I think there should NOT be any IPO allowed in bitcoin exchange at all. It is encouraging scam rather than honest business. If it is really the current situation, then we either need to change it or be better never touch bitcoin funds since now.
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Puppet
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October 08, 2013, 09:22:35 AM |
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I agree with you on reporting to SEC is a good idea.
I just cannot agree that if a company and the name of its legal representative are listed on the IPO contract and this IPO turns out to be a scam, this company and its founder can be free from even investigating by just saying he is innocent.
That's ridiculous. Then what's the point to list any company name and human name in the contract? If this is allowed, I think there should NOT be any IPO allowed in bitcoin exchange at all. It is encouraging scam rather than honest business. If it is really the current situation, then we either need to change it or be better never touch bitcoin funds since now.
News flash: it isnt allowed. There is a reason SEC regulations require you register these contracts. Otherwise anyone can issue fake stocks, see the fake Cointerra IPO on picostocks as a recent example. Are you going to sue Cointerra over that? |
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superduh
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October 08, 2013, 09:32:24 AM |
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omg, this shit again. SEC = USA. i honestly don't understand how people seem to miss a step in their thinking
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ok
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Puppet
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October 08, 2013, 09:34:42 AM |
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omg, this shit again. SEC = USA. i honestly don't understand how people seem to miss a step in their thinking
omg this shit again. The authority of the SEC relates to where the securities are being sold/targetted. Not the country of origin of the seller nor the object of the security: http://www.sec.gov/rules/interp/33-7516.htmSo yes, this is well within SEC authority, since no reasonable measures were taken to prevent US investors from investing in this, but by all means contact your local security commission if you prefer. |
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BitThink
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October 08, 2013, 09:55:14 AM |
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I don't want to waste time in this arguing. Let's concentrate on fighting with the scammers first.
Maybe we just report to SEC and in the same time report to Hong Kong and Shen Zhen police, if someone of us are living there.
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TsuyokuNaritai
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October 08, 2013, 10:09:13 AM |
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Maybe we should wait until it's confirmed as a scam before giving them an excuse to quit?
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bobboooiie
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October 08, 2013, 10:31:48 AM |
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Stop putting more pressure on labcoin then it already is put... If I remember correctly he said that if they are not Hashing on 15th they will return the rest of the coins. If he fails to do that then go ahead.. but if they are put down by SEC you are never going to see a cent back anyway so what the fuck do you want them to get involved for ? |
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Puppet
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October 08, 2013, 11:04:53 AM |
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Actually, the SEC may well be the only realistic option to get at least some of your money back: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_FundAs for waiting. Sure, go ahead and wait. Im not sure how the current October 15th promise differs from all the previous missed deadlines and promises, nor do I understand what more evidence anyone could possibly want this is a scam, but be my guest. See bitcoindaytrade to see how long Armandi will keep pushing deadlines and keep pretending its not a scam. People will be posting here a year from now and nothing will have changed. |
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TMAN
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Exchange Bitcoin quickly-https://blockchain.com.do
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October 08, 2013, 11:18:52 AM |
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Stop putting more pressure on labcoin then it already is put... If I remember correctly he said that if they are not Hashing on 15th they will return the rest of the coins. If he fails to do that then go ahead.. but if they are put down by SEC you are never going to see a cent back anyway so what the fuck do you want them to get involved for ? give him a few days, lets wait the week out - he said he was travelling & he gave us the 15th of getting the tin back. all this SEC talk is just rubbish @ the moment, if you are stressing then you broke the rule of investing more than you can afford to lose. |
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Puppet
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October 08, 2013, 11:39:24 AM |
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This SEC talk was considered rubbish before Pirate get arrested, and before GLBSE closed it doors. I will say filling out that form most likely wont change a thing, but only because Im pretty sure the SEC is already investigating. Read this carefully (not just the title): http://m.investor.gov/news-alerts/investor-alerts/investor-alert-ponzi-schemes-using-virtual-currenciesAnyone thinking the SEC has no jurisdiction and/or no interest in these bitcoin denominated securities IMO is in for a nasty surprise. |
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jimmy3dita
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October 08, 2013, 11:45:49 AM |
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I would appreciate if any of the Labcoin representatives would almost update us on the measures taken from the Btct imminent shutdown.
Being optimist, Labcoin lost control on the community, situation caused by a mix of events (such as bitcointalk hack, btct shutdown news, greedy ppl drama).
I prefer to give them a try instead of dumping at 1/10 of the ipo price, but apparently I'm among the few that can afford a "0/10" return without being screwed.
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Bitcycle
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October 08, 2013, 11:58:11 AM |
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I'd like to see a percentage of Puppet posts that didn't mention "SEC". The man's got a thing for them.
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drawingthesun
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October 08, 2013, 12:21:56 PM |
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he said he was travelling
Come on! He has been travelling for the entire duration of this company! Wow! Its either "I only got paid 10 bitcoin, sad face" or "I'm/he is travelling" or some other rubbish. Company takes on $700,000 of investment and there are no late nights? No crazy sessions getting everything together? No communication? And you believe this? A friend owns a company that has manufacturing issues and he is working constantly, and communication is one of the founding pillars of any business. But no! We can excuse Labcoin because the chips are more important, well guess what!? no one in this company gives a shit. The only people that care are the investors. This is not how a business is run. Not at all. Travelling. And you're ok with that? 2 photos were ever published, no rig was ever seen. They had a Q&A and had communication issues. How does a internet connection have issues, unless you are in the desert using satellite internet. This is why I was put on the ignore list, because I talk goddamn sense! |
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Bitcycle
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October 08, 2013, 12:48:18 PM |
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It's been 7 days since this list was posted. Unfortunately, no action items have been completed. The list remains as it is. I am including some suggestions added by the community, though it is important to note that these have not been agreed to by Mr. Noi. I am PMing a reminder copy to Mr. Noi as soon as this is posted. NOTES FROM THE Q&A
INCLUDING A TO-DO LIST FOR SAMUELE NOI. I am PMing a copy of this to-do list to the Labcoin account as a reminder of the action items from this session. I am also asking Mr. Noi to inform us when these items are completed. Actions for the next 24 hours. - Skype session with Ukyo regarding Bitfunder listing
- Posting to the forum the amount of BTC left in the company funds.
- Change pool to Eligius
- Make the labcoin portfolio public on BTCT
Other actions to complete ASAP - Verification of ID. A good start would be writing "I am Samuele Noi of Labcoin" and the date on a piece paper, and photograph yourself holding it.
- Photos of the hosting facilities as well as the operational boards
- Send a sample board to TheSeven. This should be done immediately as the sooner he gets the board the sooner he can provide advice. Delays have a direct cost.
- Exact power consumption figures for the chips/boards
Actions for the community to complete ASAP - Nominate a panel of community representatives to work closely with Samuele. This should be done immediately. We complain about delays from Sam, let's not do what we criticize him for.
Suggested additional items from the community - Meet with a shareholder in person in Shenzhen / Hong Kong. Lunch/coffee/tea meeting etc. Merv77 has indicated that he will be in town and available Oct 23 - Nov 11. An in person meeting with a third party could soothe a lot of anxieties.
- Provide a full accounting for all money spent so far. A spreadsheet showing expenses and dates would be ideal.
THIS LIST WILL BE REPOSTED DAILY WITH ITEMS CHECKED OFF AS THEY ARE COMPLETED |
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