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DustyRah
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April 04, 2014, 02:08:41 AM |
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Did anybody actually get a refund? I've been reading horror stories about it taking over a month for a refund and with the news that the April batch isn't going to hit 2Thash it makes no sense to keep my order (there's cheaper hardware out there and the price of BTC keeps dropping so I'm not sure I can ever ROI with this batch).
I bought 3 units but decided to ask for a refund as soon as the performance specs came out. It took 30 days (which they stated was the limit at the beginning). To their credit, they did come through OMG, that's nice to hear that they did refund the money~ With the crappy hashrate and low price of Bitcoins, its going to be refund central at CT! |
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aerobatic
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April 04, 2014, 12:06:15 PM |
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OMG, that's nice to hear that they did refund the money~ With the crappy hashrate and low price of Bitcoins, its going to be refund central at CT!
ok, im going to argue with you on one point. how, do you argue that its a crappy hashrate? can you buy better in the same timeframe? better not just in terms of delivery date, but also in density. Sure, you can have 9 or 10 antminers that achieve the same hashrate but they consume a lot more power and space, and will cost more to run. they may be cheaper now, but at the time they were more expensive too. ive now taken delivery of quite a few cointerra systems since they started shipping (tens of systems). i havnt been able to buy better. even if their hashrate was 20% down on what it was sposed to be, its still quite a bit less expensive than the other options i had available to me at the time. i paid a lot more for my hashfast gear and much much more for my kncminer gear. and even now, pre-ordering a knc neptune with an unknown delivery date still costs more in $/gh than buying a cointerra today that has reliable and predictable delivery dates (right now theyve caught up their backlog and are delivering on the month theyre sposed to for each batch). their latest release oif a few days ago confirms theyre already powering 10% of the bitcoin networks, which if you do the math means theyve shipped thousands of the boxes to achieve that %. cant argue with the low price of bitcoins argument and right now ive been buying bitcoins but thats not a cointerra specific issue, thats simply a 'do i buy bitcoins or mine them' issue... but if you choose to mine, i think its hard to find any 'currently shipping' options that are a better option. and yes, im somewhat biassed. but also, since i own a bunch of kncminer, and a lot of hashfast gear, and even more of cointerra gear... ive at least some 1st hand knowledge of the options on the table. |
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CurcO
Member
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Activity: 84
Merit: 10
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April 04, 2014, 05:16:43 PM |
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How about the 1 Th/s A1 chips setup from china they are going for $3000 so yes CT offers crappy Hashrate = cash , Hence 1.6 Th/s = 6000 + shipping ($589) and China 1Th/s with shipping included is $3000 hmmm u do the math.
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Powell
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 486
Merit: 262
rm -rf stupidity
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April 04, 2014, 05:24:20 PM |
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Not to mention that the Chinese A1 use less power. CT = 2000w for 1.6TH? Vs 2200W for 2TH?
I hate to say at this point people are paying for a name but there is no support so about the same for the Chinese miners well actually I can contact them for questions and not just leave voicemails.
In this industry to me a name doesn't mean crap. Now for example the automotive performance industry ... I pay more to buy let's say TiAL wastegates/blow off valves/etc vs the cheap copies made and sold by eBay and some shops. I do this because hands down the quality is better, there is support, etc. and yes I know a lot is outsourced but even then there is quality out sourcing vs make cheap as possible. When it comes to bitcoin it doesn't make damn bit of difference. Products are worthless in less than 6 months usually so why worry about longevity lol!
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aerobatic
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April 04, 2014, 05:32:20 PM |
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How about the 1 Th/s A1 chips setup from china they are going for $3000 so yes CT offers crappy Hashrate = cash , Hence 1.6 Th/s = 6000 + shipping ($589) and China 1Th/s with shipping included is $3000 hmmm u do the math.
dunno.. definitely not clear cut. all i heard about the a1 chips was speculation about who owns the rights to the a1 chip as bitmine seem to claim some sort of exclusivity or design rights, which of course may be them making false claims, and then plenty of chinese clone companies using them - possibly without permission (do we know yet? has anyone figured out who really owns it?) and i still see a lot of angry a1 chip customers waiting for their promised systems. which also under perform, compared to their claims. no turbo mode, for instance... this isn't as clear as you make out with your 'do the math' statement. also, cointerra at least has a customer support department and can be reached by phone and email. sure, they're snowed under so sometimes take awhile to respond, but at least they employ a customer service department (10+ people). i know i can call when i need something.. or email. i wouldn't know where to start to call a faceless anonymous chinese company, nor would i expect much support. |
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CurcO
Member
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Activity: 84
Merit: 10
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April 04, 2014, 06:14:41 PM |
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Powell
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 486
Merit: 262
rm -rf stupidity
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April 04, 2014, 06:59:19 PM |
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How about the 1 Th/s A1 chips setup from china they are going for $3000 so yes CT offers crappy Hashrate = cash , Hence 1.6 Th/s = 6000 + shipping ($589) and China 1Th/s with shipping included is $3000 hmmm u do the math.
dunno.. definitely not clear cut. all i heard about the a1 chips was speculation about who owns the rights to the a1 chip as bitmine seem to claim some sort of exclusivity or design rights, which of course may be them making false claims, and then plenty of chinese clone companies using them - possibly without permission (do we know yet? has anyone figured out who really owns it?) and i still see a lot of angry a1 chip customers waiting for their promised systems. which also under perform, compared to their claims. no turbo mode, for instance... this isn't as clear as you make out with your 'do the math' statement. also, cointerra at least has a customer support department and can be reached by phone and email. sure, they're snowed under so sometimes take awhile to respond, but at least they employ a customer service department (10+ people). i know i can call when i need something.. or email. i wouldn't know where to start to call a faceless anonymous chinese company, nor would i expect much support. From all I read on the forum is its just luck if you get support. The general public with them will not take them apart in fear of warranty esp since many still believe they are going to get the 2TH upgrade in firmware that is never coming. Iirc it was you and a few others that were told that its hardware limitations on all units in the wild. With the Dragon Miners and clones they are not promised 1.3TH turbo mode and things like bitmine. The chips are capable of doing so but the hardware is not. I'm running one of the original 5 blade 40 chip boards at 1.2TH right now, but all the new ones are 4 blade 32 chip and run at 1TH. I know some have issues with theirs and I've been lucky with 4 so far and my 5th gets here in a few hours so knock on wood lol. But same with CT, HF, KNC, etc. many came in with major issues (some due to shipping some not though). I do understand you have a large amount of CT hardware and you for the most part stand behind them. I won't blame you because I would do the same and I also know you will admit when something just isn't right so I hope this does not come off as an attack against you. I still would buy at CT but even at 6k it is not worth it to me. I am lucky like some because if I did and it broke if I got no response I can just show up to Austin. Spend plenty of time there for cars and friends (plus I live in Houston). So can't ignore the box left at front door if they aren't there with "Please fix! <3"! Lol |
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aerobatic
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April 04, 2014, 07:12:36 PM |
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From all I read on the forum is its just luck if you get support. The general public with them will not take them apart in fear of warranty esp since many still believe they are going to get the 2TH upgrade in firmware that is never coming. Iirc it was you and a few others that were told that its hardware limitations on all units in the wild. With the Dragon Miners and clones they are not promised 1.3TH turbo mode and things like bitmine. The chips are capable of doing so but the hardware is not. I'm running one of the original 5 blade 40 chip boards at 1.2TH right now, but all the new ones are 4 blade 32 chip and run at 1TH. I know some have issues with theirs and I've been lucky with 4 so far and my 5th gets here in a few hours so knock on wood lol. But same with CT, HF, KNC, etc. many came in with major issues (some due to shipping some not though).
I do understand you have a large amount of CT hardware and you for the most part stand behind them. I won't blame you because I would do the same and I also know you will admit when something just isn't right so I hope this does not come off as an attack against you.
I still would buy at CT but even at 6k it is not worth it to me. I am lucky like some because if I did and it broke if I got no response I can just show up to Austin. Spend plenty of time there for cars and friends (plus I live in Houston). So can't ignore the box left at front door if they aren't there with "Please fix! <3"! Lol
the firmware updates have eeked out a bit more performance, especially in some people's systems (the ones that were under performing)... and have been much more stable... however, the new prototype box thats hashing at 2 TH/s is completely new boards with 100% new components, and new power supplies.. thus almost everything inside the old box is completely new in the new version, thus there's nothing much to upgrade.. its pretty much a new box with nothing common from the old one except the beaglebone and some wires. that probably explains why it took a bit of time to get working, and also explains why they can't just rush it through production because the supply chain of components isn't the same so needs to be sourced from somewhere. it is, however, the same identical asics.. so that bit is good news.. their asics did indeed hash at 500 GH/s, as they always claimed. just not with the board or power supplies that their subcontractor had designed for their initial system... thus back to the drawing board for everything else. pretty much the same story with KncMiner as well.. and, for that matter hashfast. these guys all shipped systems that were then upgraded with noticeable performance improvements when they had the time to redesign their boards (probably in all three cases it was about delivering more power to the asics via optimised dc/dc circuit design). |
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DustyRah
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April 05, 2014, 03:39:48 AM |
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OMG, that's nice to hear that they did refund the money~ With the crappy hashrate and low price of Bitcoins, its going to be refund central at CT!
ok, im going to argue with you on one point. how, do you argue that its a crappy hashrate? can you buy better in the same timeframe? better not just in terms of delivery date, but also in density. Sure, you can have 9 or 10 antminers that achieve the same hashrate but they consume a lot more power and space, and will cost more to run. they may be cheaper now, but at the time they were more expensive too. ive now taken delivery of quite a few cointerra systems since they started shipping (tens of systems). i havnt been able to buy better. even if their hashrate was 20% down on what it was sposed to be, its still quite a bit less expensive than the other options i had available to me at the time. i paid a lot more for my hashfast gear and much much more for my kncminer gear. and even now, pre-ordering a knc neptune with an unknown delivery date still costs more in $/gh than buying a cointerra today that has reliable and predictable delivery dates (right now theyve caught up their backlog and are delivering on the month theyre sposed to for each batch). their latest release oif a few days ago confirms theyre already powering 10% of the bitcoin networks, which if you do the math means theyve shipped thousands of the boxes to achieve that %. cant argue with the low price of bitcoins argument and right now ive been buying bitcoins but thats not a cointerra specific issue, thats simply a 'do i buy bitcoins or mine them' issue... but if you choose to mine, i think its hard to find any 'currently shipping' options that are a better option. and yes, im somewhat biassed. but also, since i own a bunch of kncminer, and a lot of hashfast gear, and even more of cointerra gear... ive at least some 1st hand knowledge of the options on the table. It is crappy because I paid for 2THs machine and received 1.6THs. It does not matter what time frame it took or if any other products are available etc. I did not get what I paid for and that's why I call it crappy. I don't care what percentage of Bitcoin network CT miners run because it means nothing to me and my money. At the end of the day, I am short 20% and that whole 20% is supposed to be my income for the amount and efforts invested. |
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hardpick
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April 05, 2014, 04:00:17 AM |
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I am in a GB and we have 5 x Terraminer IV We have had so many problem that our “colo owner, he wants the miners out” Also we have a Terraminer IV at Cointerra repair center, no estimated ETA. see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278460.400My reading Terraminer IV is that they are very unreliable/UN stable, customer support does not respond and do not meet the sold hash rate I would not recommend anyone buy a Terraminer IV BUY another brand -- get you money back before it to late Or is you still believe these are ok then buy a 3 week old miner of this GB for cheap as we are in process of voting to dispose of all 5 miners |
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samsonn25
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April 05, 2014, 02:06:58 PM |
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Thanks for the update/review
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solarion
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April 05, 2014, 05:42:53 PM |
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All the american manufacturers seem to make crappy products that are delivered late and fail to meet specs. No idea why they can't seem to get it right when companies in the eurozone and asia build nice stuff.
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testerx
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April 05, 2014, 07:50:15 PM |
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the firmware updates have eeked out a bit more performance, especially in some people's systems (the ones that were under performing)... and have been much more stable... however, the new prototype box thats hashing at 2 TH/s is completely new boards with 100% new components, and new power supplies.. thus almost everything inside the old box is completely new in the new version, thus there's nothing much to upgrade.. its pretty much a new box with nothing common from the old one except the beaglebone and some wires. that probably explains why it took a bit of time to get working, and also explains why they can't just rush it through production because the supply chain of components isn't the same so needs to be sourced from somewhere. it is, however, the same identical asics.. so that bit is good news.. their asics did indeed hash at 500 GH/s, as they always claimed. just not with the board or power supplies that their subcontractor had designed for their initial system... thus back to the drawing board for everything else. pretty much the same story with KncMiner as well.. and, for that matter hashfast. these guys all shipped systems that were then upgraded with noticeable performance improvements when they had the time to redesign their boards (probably in all three cases it was about delivering more power to the asics via optimised dc/dc circuit design).
The problem is that my $6280 (with shipping) boxes would show up in mid-late April and hash 1.6Thash, whereas I bought a box from a random Chinese manufacturer with an unknown reputation on these forums and they managed to deliver a box that actually mines at the promised hashrate for $3400. No, the hardware is not as polished as Cointerra and the interface was a headache to get up and running because of the weird static IP they chose to assign it but if it weren't for customs taking 5 days to clear the box I would have had the box WITHIN ONE WEEK of payment because they overnighted it from Hong Kong. So for $6800 or so I can have an actual 2TH of computing power within the same power envelope as 1.6Thash from Cointerra and not needing to wait until May for a revised board. Even worse is that it's not even $6800 now because the Chinese manufacturers are so aggressive about dropping their prices, now you can basically buy 2Thash delivered in a week from them for the same price that 1.6Thash delivered sometime later this month would be from Cointerra. The hardware isn't as nicely designed but the boards actually hash at the promised rate, and unfortunately with difficulty skyrocketing and the price of BTC tanking it's become very hard to justify keeping Cointerra orders. Now admitted if BTC hadn't just tanked it's price and if the IRS hadn't announced rather awful taxation policies for miners then Cointerra would probably still be an attractive and profitable choice, but as it is now the missing 400Ghash of hashing power is basically the entire profit margin for people hosted at colo centers. My business partner who controls half of our mining company along with me has been pushing me to get a refund and unfortunately I cannot make a good case for why we should keep our Cointerra orders because it honestly makes no financial sense now. |
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testerx
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April 05, 2014, 07:53:56 PM
Last edit: April 05, 2014, 08:43:58 PM by testerx |
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There are many clones out there that all more or less do 1Thash for 1000W at varying pricepoints but the best deals run around $3000 for the box itself and then varying shipping costs. They are also overclockable though you would have to upgrade the power supplies or add a 2nd power supply for this to be stable long term-I managed to squeeze out 1.2Thash out of my box and I'm gonna add a 2nd PSU so it can be run like this longer term. I paid $3400 for it to be overnighted to the US at the end of March, though customs clearance did take almost a week and it seems like the prices are cheaper now. The quality of the casing isn't nearly nice as the Cointerra units and the software is also less polished, but the lower power use and stable hashrate is a big plus. Then there's also bitmain's Antminer S2 units who are comparable in terms of power draw. |
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linenoise
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April 13, 2014, 01:06:15 AM |
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I'm surprised there hasn't been a class action against Cointerra.
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aerobatic
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April 13, 2014, 01:31:22 AM |
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I'm surprised there hasn't been a class action against Cointerra.
its not surprising. class actions are for companies that do wrong (especially, intentionally do wrong). its hard to argue cointerra did anything other than 'best efforts'... and tried to make the best of an imperfect situation. 1. they actually shipped their products (and by all accounts, i believe at 1,000+/month, there are now thousands of customers with them. 2. they weren't excessively late (unlike most bitcoin mining companies). they made best efforts, and pretty much closed their back orders by march. april batch was shipped 'in april' and they're pretty much caught up now. 3. when they realised their system fell short on performance by 20%, they offered every customer their choice of either a discount on a future order to accept the reality of the situation, or, an insta-refund. yet again, few if any bitcoin mining companies allow refunds, and those that do make it painfully difficult to get them or delay them for months and months. if the company is offering you discount compensation on a future order, or a refund if you're not happy, you pretty much have all bases covered. not much grounds for a class action... and now i believe they're shipping from stock so you can get one in 48 hours (for small premium over pre-order price, and yes, they're allowing may & june pre-orders to upgrade to immed deliver if they want) |
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aerobatic
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April 13, 2014, 03:00:35 AM |
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if theyre shipping from stock, where the f**k is my april order???
some ppl talk so much shit its hard to wade through
They said April orders will ship in April. 12 days in and not even halfway through the month I think you could be a little more patient. THey seemed pretty confident they'd be on time and you're jumping the gun claiming they havn't shipped yet. Plenty of April left to go and there's a good chance you will get it in days not weeks. |
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solarion
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April 13, 2014, 04:33:28 AM |
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I'm surprised there hasn't been a class action against Cointerra.
its not surprising. class actions are for companies that do wrong (especially, intentionally do wrong). its hard to argue cointerra did anything other than 'best efforts'... and tried to make the best of an imperfect situation. 1. they actually shipped their products (and by all accounts, i believe at 1,000+/month, there are now thousands of customers with them. 2. they weren't excessively late (unlike most bitcoin mining companies). they made best efforts, and pretty much closed their back orders by march. april batch was shipped 'in april' and they're pretty much caught up now. 3. when they realised their system fell short on performance by 20%, they offered every customer their choice of either a discount on a future order to accept the reality of the situation, or, an insta-refund. yet again, few if any bitcoin mining companies allow refunds, and those that do make it painfully difficult to get them or delay them for months and months. if the company is offering you discount compensation on a future order, or a refund if you're not happy, you pretty much have all bases covered. not much grounds for a class action... and now i believe they're shipping from stock so you can get one in 48 hours (for small premium over pre-order price, and yes, they're allowing may & june pre-orders to upgrade to immed deliver if they want) So you're saying they did well? ...or they did well compared to the pure scam american companies? If you put charlie manson in a room with hitler and stalin, suddenly manson's crimes don't seem so serious anymore. Feel me? |
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