[BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast)

[DeaDTerra]

Sorry for not follow the latest news.

As a non American citizen, what if I just want to keep my shares and receive div?

You have to Verify your account at WeExchange.

We are working on a third solution,
If you don't want hardware and you don't want to verify/you are a Us citizen.
Please be patient, we will post more soon.
//DeaDTerra

[pedrog]

Sorry for not follow the latest news.

As a non American citizen, what if I just want to keep my shares and receive div?

You have to Verify your account at WeExchange.

We are working on a third solution,
If you don't want hardware and you don't want to verify/you are a Us citizen.
Please be patient, we will post more soon.
//DeaDTerra

Oh, nice!

[canth]

Sorry for not follow the latest news.

As a non American citizen, what if I just want to keep my shares and receive div?

You have to Verify your account at WeExchange.

We are working on a third solution,
If you don't want hardware and you don't want to verify/you are a Us citizen.
Please be patient, we will post more soon.
//DeaDTerra

How will you handle US customers with less than 120K shares or the shares that don't evenly divide into 120K lots? Is this covered by the 3rd solution?

[dgray9000]

For those of us who are still contemplating on keeping their shares, will IceDrill be doing direct shares since as a US Citizen I cannot keep my shares on Bitfunder after Dec 2nd.

Yes, our handling of direct shares is a necessity and should be considered a given. On Dec 2nd we'll be given a list of bitcoin addresses and their relevant share holdings. Exactly how we'll handle this share transfer will be made crystal clear well before that date (it's a current priority item).

It seems like they'll be handling the shares directly in-house.  On that note, what will I, as a share holder in the U.S. on BitFunder, have to do to get my shares transferred to you guys? 
Will the dividends still be payed at the same time as those that remain on BitFunder?
Also will there be any extra fees associated with you guys handling them in-house as opposed to those handled through BitFunder?

[Isokivi]

Has anyone had their weexchange account verified?  7 days since submitting dox and nothing yet for me.

[pedrog]

Has anyone had their weexchange account verified?  7 days since submitting dox and nothing yet for me.

I'm waiting for some changes in the requirements for submitting my request, and improvements in the form, I believe I need to edit my address.

WeExchange needs at least 1 government issued photo id.
A seperate option for this will be added soon.

-Ukyo

[SimonBelmond]

Has anyone had their weexchange account verified?  7 days since submitting dox and nothing yet for me.

Same here. Nothing happens.

[Rannasha]

Has anyone had their weexchange account verified?  7 days since submitting dox and nothing yet for me.

Same here. Nothing happens.

Same here. Submitted within a day after the announcement, nothing happened.

[Hoofprint]

my we exchange address is verified. it took a while tho and it was done before the mandate to screw all yanks

[molecular]

Sorry for not follow the latest news.

As a non American citizen, what if I just want to keep my shares and receive div?

You have to Verify your account at WeExchange.

more precisely: you can still receive dividends (and withdraw bitcoins) until November 1st. Then you can't trade any more, but still receive dividends (and withdraw bitcoins) until Dec 2nd. On Dec 2nd your shares will be transferred to the issuer.

[DeaDTerra]

Hi All
As it looks now this is our plan:
Everyone will be able to trade until the 1st of November, at this time anyone who has not been verified or are US citizens will not be able to trade the shares on BitFunder. We will be able keep paying dividends on BitFunder up until the 1st of December. At that point we will receive a list of all non-verified users/ US citizen accounts (the address and amount of shares). We will take this list and convert it (destroy at BitFunder and maintain a list internally) into offline shares. We’ll call them “direct shares” and pay dividends to the bitcoin address we’ll be given by BitFunder.

To this end, please ensure you are in direct control of the bitcoin address we’ll be receiving from BitFunder on 2 December. If you cannot sign a message with the address then you are not in direct control of it. For example, a deposit address at an exchange is NOT under your direct control. This is to ensure future tradability of the shares. If you cannot prove you own an address then it will remain untradable indefinitely.

Just to be clear: the solution to making these shares tradable is not technical, it’s legal. We’ll be exploring several different options hard to allow these direct shares to float once again.
//DeaDTerra

[ffssixtynine]

People need to understand that the SEC rules are very strict on shares which can be traded. Any company planning a colored coin or web system is going to fall foul of all the same issues as BTCT and Bitfunder unless they are fully SEC compliant.

Any company allowing their shares to be traded (by US citizens) in this way via a third party  - same problem.

They simply cannot be traded without being an issue for the SEC and it could be an issue with the security itself and not the trading platform (well, that too).

[LorenzoMoney]

Let's be clear, I am no lawyer and I always follow the laws in all things.

This is just speculation. A company, not based in the USA, whose principals (CEO, etc.) is not living in the USA, and whose assets are not in the USA would be pretty hard to stop or prosecute if it was being traded on a networked, distributed exchange.

Sure, one government could put pressure on another, but if there is are guns, drugs, slavery, transportation of people, or use of regular fiat type banks, it will be pretty hard for the SEC, on a practical level, to do very much.

Now, I would never suggest that anyone take my legal advice. I will provide you with advice on theology, psychology and dating, but this is just theoretical speculation.

Data is data. A message sent to a blockchain representing a ledger is just data. It will be fun to see which clever software/financial guy finds a way to circumvent national boundaries and national laws.

On the other hand, I am glad that the EPA, FDA and SEC exist. While I do believe that individuals have the right to make their own informed decisions, there are plenty of scammers and people out there for whom law and ethics do not matter at all and from whom protection is required.

Political boundaries are melting. While Bitcoin is politically agnostic, there are some implications involved in the Satoshi legacy.  If currency or value can be transmitted across borders, that will mean that borders are artificial.  One of them is that if there is a worldwide computer network in which data can be sent from individuals living in countries whose governments are ostensibly at war or at least not in diplomatic relationship, then perhaps, the exchange of information and commerce between the individuals can circumvent the rigidity and stupidity of their respective governments, and thereby, somehow, due to the commerce and communication between individuals bring about a better world.

I look forward to how some clever software guy or girl finds an elegant solution to the SEC/stock exchange problem and hope that this person is not discourage out of fear of rigid existing governmental systems.

People need to understand that the SEC rules are very strict on shares which can be traded. Any company planning a colored coin or web system is going to fall foul of all the same issues as BTCT and Bitfunder unless they are fully SEC compliant.

Any company allowing their shares to be traded (by US citizens) in this way via a third party  - same problem.

They simply cannot be traded without being an issue for the SEC and it could be an issue with the security itself and not the trading platform (well, that too).

[will]

If currency or value can be transmitted across borders, that will mean that borders are artificial. 

Reminded me of the court scene in the movie "Blow". Only, George Jung (Johnny Depp) used the phrase "imaginary line".
http://www.hark.com/clips/gbnkbdbxwg-few-words-to-the-court

[kleeck]

If currency or value can be transmitted across borders, that will mean that borders are artificial. 

Reminded me of the court scene in the movie "Blow". Only, George Jung (Johnny Depp) used the phrase "imaginary line".
http://www.hark.com/clips/gbnkbdbxwg-few-words-to-the-court

One of my favorite scenes in one of my favorite movies:

Gearoge: Alright. Well, in all honesty, I don't feel that what I've done is a crime. And I think it's illogical and irresponsible for you to sentence me to prison. Because, when you think about it, what did I really do? I crossed an imaginary line with a bunch of plants. I mean, you say I'm an outlaw, you say I'm a thief, but where's the Christmas dinner for the people on relief? Huh? You say you're looking for someone who's never weak but always strong, to gather flowers constantly whether you are right or wrong, someone to open each and every door, but it ain't me, babe, huh? No, no, no, it ain't me, babe. It ain't me you're looking for, babe. You follow?

Judge: Yeah... Gosh, you know, your concepts are really interesting, Mister Jung.

George: Thank you.

Judge: Unfortunately for you, the line you crossed was real and the plants you brought with you were illegal, so your bail is twenty thousand dollars.

That being said, I think Lorenzo has a point, and that a colored coins solution is the best bet for those of us under the tyranny of The Land of the Free. I'm not sure what the actual legal situation is, and how it applies to a colored coin solution but I'd much rather trade peer-to-peer at this point in the game.

[molecular]

Hi All
As it looks now this is our plan:
Everyone will be able to trade until the 1st of November, at this time anyone who has not been verified or are US citizens will not be able to trade the shares on BitFunder. We will be able keep paying dividends on BitFunder up until the 1st of December. At that point we will receive a list of all non-verified users/ US citizen accounts (the address and amount of shares). We will take this list and convert it (destroy at BitFunder and maintain a list internally) into offline shares. We’ll call them “direct shares” and pay dividends to the bitcoin address we’ll be given by BitFunder.

To this end, please ensure you are in direct control of the bitcoin address we’ll be receiving from BitFunder on 2 December. If you cannot sign a message with the address then you are not in direct control of it. For example, a deposit address at an exchange is NOT under your direct control. This is to ensure future tradability of the shares. If you cannot prove you own an address then it will remain untradable indefinitely.

Just to be clear: the solution to making these shares tradable is not technical, it’s legal. We’ll be exploring several different options hard to allow these direct shares to float once again.
//DeaDTerra

I appreciate this approach.

I suggest to look also into colored coins (ngccc project). I'm unsure how far they've progressed, but in the long run, I think a decentralized solution like this for trading the shares, paying out dividends and voting on motions would be favorable.

I retract my earlier idea to talk to havelock. I now agree this would just postpone the problem.

[molecular]

That being said, I think Lorenzo has a point, and that a colored coins solution is the best bet for those of us under the tyranny of The Land of the Free. I'm not sure what the actual legal situation is, and how it applies to a colored coin solution but I'd much rather trade peer-to-peer at this point in the game.

The way I see it, if there is a system like colored coins allowing people to own, receive dividends for and trade shares of something defined in some contract, then I don't see an obligation of any sort for any "non-anonymous party" to the contract to identify the other parties and/or make sure they're not American Citizens. That's just bollocks.

I would like to hope there is nothing in international law disallowing conduct of business anonymously.

If the SEC wants to protect American Citizens they should start right there, for example by educating them. They should also (in my mind) do a whole plethora of other things, but that's none of my business since I'm no american citizen and therefore (hopefully) I don't have to suffer the consequences of their actions.

[SeBTC]

A possible location for IceDrill? http://www.arcticstartup.com/2013/10/18/e600-million-datacenter-to-be-built-in-estonia

[ffssixtynine]

It doesn't matter what you might think the SEC should do, what matters is the guidelines and law as they see it. The fact is they do require anyone selling securities to US citizens to be compliant. There is no avoiding it using any of the means suggested here. That's totally naive.

However, the chances of the SEC going after any single operator are negligible unless 1) that operator is US based (Belize but operating from the US - no one knows) and or most likely that the IPO was miscorrect or fraudulent (which also includes not divulging key information to shareholders). They will go for you outside the US.

I would suggest that this is an IPO which the SEC already have their eye on in all honesty. They care about US citizens not getting their investment back, first and foremost. But if it all works out or close then no worries. If they try and get around securities law themselves then that would be silly IMHO.

Any operator trying to do their own colored coins operation is frankly nuts. It's not their job to do this, it takes time and resources away from core ops for no advantage, and they can all pay out to shareholders without any of this. Shareholders lose the ability to sell shares in theory but that would probably come back as third parties do new trading systems. Shareholders looking to sell lose out I know, but if you're going to deal in grey area securities that's the risk you took.

[Mythoranium]

Will or DT,
As indicated in the second post:

Mining start date:
The estimated time of delivery is Q4 of 2013.

The physical mine location will be prepared for chip delivery in September.
Chips will arrive in early November
The IceDrill mine will be operational in Q4 2013, likely in November.

Since it is already the second half of October, could you please confirm that everything is going according to plan? Is the physical mine location ready for chip delivery? Can we get some more detailed information, for example the country, funds spent on mine construction etc.

Thank you in advance