HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet

[gmaxwell]

plenty of scoundrels in business..  where ya been?

Incompetence and malice are often darn hard to distinguish. Keep in mind I'm responding to someone who was suggesting that hashfast was actually going to ship a box of rocks.

[jspielberg]

I think hanlon's razor can be applied here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

The biggest part of the stupidity may have been the original sale and marketing decision to post the wide eyed optimistic shipping date as the first possible date. 
Setting up a date that doesn't allow for a win-win for you and your customers is not going endear you to them.

[Its About Sharing]

From first post, wow, didn't realize they were so far behind:

 - Shipments begin: October 20th-30th, in order of purchase
 

And the difficulty is still skyrocketing, and yet all these failures.
Not poking, I was an Avalon victim and a current BFL one.

[DeathAndTaxes]

The mess for batch 1 HF customers is probably not a result of some great evil plot

Of course it is, however the "plot" is very simple.

They designed a chip, a pretty good chip (at least on paper) but the chip wouldn't be ready for delivery until late Dec (possibly January if one was conservative and padded the timeline for possible delays).
Cointerra is charging $3 per GH/s for late Dec delivery, KNC is charging $20 per GH/s for Sept deliver.  $20 is more than $3 and it really is that simple.

HF has a product worth $3 per GH/s but they want more.  By lying (blatantly lying) to customers they got more, a lot more.  That is the "evil plot".  They simply lied to customers, from day 1 they never expected delivery before late Dec.  The one thing they didn't count on was real delays which may cause them to be unable to meet even their fake delivery date. 

Anyway you slice it the premium of prices above $3 per GH/s was simply stolen from customers under false pretenses.  That is an "evil plot".  Now it wouldn't make a good movie because unlike a bond villian it isn't particularly interesting or creative.  It is simply lying for financial gain or as the lawyery type would call it; fraud.

[perezoso]

Early in the Hashfast delivery saga, shortly after they failed to ship in late October, I disagreed with Cedivad and others, giving Hashfast the benefit of the doubt.  I was a moderate, taking the "reasonable" position that a slight delay was understandable, and that we should bear with them while they ironed out final issues.

Since then, it has become abundantly clear that they never had any ability or serious intent to ship in October. That date was fraudulent from the beginning, and was proffered to a) boost sales to begin with, and b) to boost sales at a higher price.

I think this is an inescapable conclusion now.  And I was a moderate into November.

[joshv06]

Early in the Hashfast saga, shortly after they failed to ship in late October, I disagreed with Cedivad and others, giving Hashfast the benefit of the doubt.  I was a moderate, taking the "reasonable" position that a slight delay was understandable, and that we should bear with them while they ironed out final issues.

Since then, it has become abundantly clear that they never had any ability or serious intent to ship in October. That date was fraudulent from the beginning, and was proffered to a) boost sales to begin with, and b) to boost sales at a higher price.

I think this is an inescapable conclusion now.  And I was a moderate into November.

Same here. I used to keep in close contact with everyone there. They were all cool. Up until 3 days before Oct 20th. They kept telling me they were on schedule for the original ship date. Idk how that's even possible, We are 2 months away from that now. It was an outright lie.

Then I complained about paying a premium while they are shipping late and they kept telling me that it's okay because we are still getting them before anyone else in November.

We are now in December. And don't get any real updates from them.

[JWU42]

The mess for batch 1 HF customers is probably not a result of some great evil plot

Of course it is, however the "plot" is very simple.

They designed a chip, a pretty good chip (at least on paper) but the chip wouldn't be ready for delivery until late Dec (possibly January if one was conservative and padded the timeline for possible delays).
Cointerra is charging $3 per GH/s for late Dec delivery, KNC is charging $20 per GH/s for Sept deliver.  $20 is more than $3 and it really is that simple.

HF has a product worth $3 per GH/s but they want more.  By lying (blatantly lying) to customers they got more, a lot more.  That is the "evil plot".  They simply lied to customers, from day 1 they never expected delivery before late Dec.  The one thing they didn't count on was real delays which may cause them to be unable to meet even their fake delivery date. 

Anyway you slice it the premium of prices above $3 per GH/s was simply stolen from customers under false pretenses.  That is an "evil plot".  Now it wouldn't make a good movie because unlike a bond villian it isn't particularly interesting or creative.  It is simply lying for financial gain or as the lawyery type would call it; fraud.

I think he nailed it  

[driver]

What I would like to know is what type video output does it have and is it male or female plug ? You just never know what will come on a machine when it is not listed in the specs .
 I assume it is vga with female  but who knows .
 Also assume it has it's own ethernet card  . Wonder what speed that is .  They need to put more info on their website about their products .

[minternj]

What I would like to know is what type video output does it have and is it male or female plug ? You just never know what will come on a machine when it is not listed in the specs .
 I assume it is vga with female  but who knows .
 Also assume it has it's own ethernet card  . Wonder what speed that is .  They need to put more info on their website about their products .

its a Raspi (supposedly). Last i checked they use  hdmi

[RickJamesBTC]

I'm sorry, but the thieves at hashfast are a us based company, and better learn the fucking laws about doing business in this country. They will get fined everything they have made and lose any lawsuit filed if they don't. 

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

Do not accept any of their excuses as a customer, do not let them tell you that they are not sure you are eligible for a refund. File complaints with the FTC and your state attorney general. DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.

[gmaxwell]

Now since the only payment option is in BTC Will I get the same ammount of BTC back should you fail to deliver by December 31st?

Orders are taken in BTC, in the unlikely event we get to refunds they will be given in BTC.

HashFast has now announced they'll be missing their "guarantee date", and are attempting to renig on the above. Now customers must choose to lock in an 86% loss or lose all potential of refund:

Batch 1 customers who would like to initiate a voluntary refund request, can do so by sending the following information to: refunds@hashfast.com. Please note this is a request only and not a guarantee of refund eligibility. As orders were priced in USD, refunds will be issued in the equivalent amount of USD. If a refund is to be paid in BTC, the USD to BTC market exchange rate on the date of refund will be used to calculate the amount of BTC to be refunded.

This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy.

[RickJamesBTC]

It's also illegal. I hope people don't fall for it.

[arorts]

Now since the only payment option is in BTC Will I get the same ammount of BTC back should you fail to deliver by December 31st?

Orders are taken in BTC, in the unlikely event we get to refunds they will be given in BTC.

That's a big promise.

A btc rate of $100 is not the same as $150 in 2 months time. What a smoke screen promise.

If HashFast is *using* the pre-order money, refunds of any kind (BTC or current $ value) are out of the question -- you can't refund money that is already spent.
If HashFast is *not using* the pre-order money, why is it being locked in until next year?
Can HashFast make a statement on how pre-order money will be used?

Just so we all are all ABSOLUTELY clear: how HF used of any funding is NOT our fucking problem!!

HF,
Refund 100% of the payment (which was done in BTC)!!

[600watt]

wow, people paid in btc for a miner which delivery date was a lie now get back the current $ amount ?  W O W


how can you let hf go with that ?


knc received a shitstorm for every spelling error. 


 

[drewster]

wow, people paid in btc for a miner which delivery date was a lie now get back the current $ amount ?  W O W


how can you let hf go with that ?


knc received a shitstorm for every spelling error. 

Pretty bad news guys.. I think it's worse than everyone here thinks. I don't think they are EVER shipping and probably not refunding either. No, I'm not privy to any special inside information, but...

1- goofy refund policy that states it's only a "request" for refund
2- just about 3 months late at this point
3- YouTube account has been terminated

To me this means ..

(a) they intended to deliver but ran into serious issues, were severely undercapitalized, and burned up.most or all of the pre-order cash.

Or

(b) they never had any intention of delivering

Delays are not the frightening part. That happens. The closed YouTube account and the refund policy that's a "request" are the reasons I fear the worst.

Can anyone else verify the refund policy?

[aneutronic]

wow, people paid in btc for a miner which delivery date was a lie now get back the current $ amount ?  W O W


how can you let hf go with that ?


knc received a shitstorm for every spelling error. 

Pretty bad news guys.. I think it's worse than everyone here thinks. I don't think they are EVER shipping and probably not refunding either. No, I'm not privy to any special inside information, but...

1- goofy refund policy that states it's only a "request" for refund
2- just about 3 months late at this point
3- YouTube account has been terminated

To me this means ..

(a) they intended to deliver but ran into serious issues, were severely undercapitalized, and burned up.most or all of the pre-order cash.

Or

(b) they never had any intention of delivering

Delays are not the frightening part. That happens. The closed YouTube account and the refund policy that's a "request" are the reasons I fear the worst.

Can anyone else verify the refund policy?

Don't believe their bullshit refund terms, it's a trick to get you to forfeit your rights.

It's also illegal. I hope people don't fall for it.

[HashFast_CL]

 ‏@HashFast
https://twitter.com/HashFast/status/418107074979971072

A big thank you to Amy for camping out in Montreal for the last week!



We did it!! Shipped the first Baby Jets and Sierras today.

[aerobatic]

‏@HashFast
https://twitter.com/HashFast/status/418107074979971072

A big thank you to Amy for camping out in Montreal for the last week!



We did it!! Shipped the first Baby Jets and Sierras today.

good news... well done!  can you mention how many were shipped today?  and whats the schedule for the rest ?

[beavertank]

‏@HashFast
We did it!! Shipped the first Baby Jets and Sierras today.

It's too bad your terms of sale specify refunds are available for all Batch 1 customers who don't receive their miners by... oh look... today!

Good luck on your illegal scammy attempts to refund people a small fraction of the BTC they paid you, too. I sure hope you enjoy getting sued.

[brontosaurus]

It's been a while since I looked on this forum. I'm really disappointed to read about what's happened with Hashfast as it looks as though a lot of trusting customers may end up losing a fair portion of their hard earned money. That's inexcusable as it would seem that HF got more than enough funding to develop a 28nm chip and build their customers' systems. How much they took out of the company in expenses and salaries is anyone's guess.

It's also going to make life very difficult for any new suppliers that  might come along, and that leaves a bigger problem.

I've always felt that mining rigs are grossly overpriced, even at the current lowest offering of $3 per gigahash. It's simply not competitive with what the 'invisible' mining corporations can build capacity for, ie less than $1.50/GH. Think I'm kidding? Well, let me give you some insight....

Recently a previous colleague of mine got in contact. He works for a group of Venture Capitalists in the UAE and had been approached by some of my fellow countrymen with a business plan for the development of a 'consumer' electronic system - he wouldn't tell me what the application was as it was all under Non Disclosure agreements, but basically he asked me to check out their technical plan -edited, of course - and their costings. When I went over the facts and figures it became obvious that the plan centered on a custom silicon device; from the power specs, huge heatsinks and unusually low clock speeds it spelt out SHA256, or 'transaction engine' as my contact called it.

To cut to the chase, it was a very comprehensive and well thought out technical plan with realistic timescales, although I thought some of the costings were a bit on the pessimistic side. It's a real pity the plan I got was so heavily edited as it referred to 'commercial **** companies dominating the market with proprietary systems' and had several graphs and tables totally blacked out. It did, however, refer to a 'Network ##### Rate' and how much they expected it to grow in 2014 - to over 180,000####### by Dec 2014, no less. Whoever these 'companies' were, the guys that wrote the plan seemed to really disapprove of them.

But here's the killer - in their plan a basic system using one 'transaction engine' would retail at 'around' $300 with a manufacturing price well below $200 - I can't give you the real figure - including one-off costs! This system had a 'rated capacity' of 200 billion ###### per second, I'm pretty sure I don't have to spell the rest out.

My UAE contact said his principals were very impressed with the plan, but only if the systems were used in-house, as it were, due to their  potential ROI - I never got to see that part. They most certainly didn't want them sold to the public under any circumstances. He hinted that a very attractive offer was made to the group, but was politely declined. He wouldn't tell me who the group were or how to contact them.

It's a very interesting thought - a 200GH miner for $300?? Anyone heard any hint of this?