all finished

[forevernoob]

Hell, if waldo can get full BTC amount refunded we don't need a vote.

[3rac3]

• If we get full BTC refund I am for refund.
• If we are to be paid in USD exchanged for BTC i say lets get those miners - it would be nice to have additional MPP promised modules with that.
• No idea how to approach upgrades though.

[Ferr]

There only one right solution - get full refund in BTC

[#BiT_pOL]

• If we get full BTC refund I am for refund.
• If we are to be paid in USD exchanged for BTC i say lets get those miners - it would be nice to have additional MPP promised modules with that.
• No idea how to approach upgrades though.

+1

[likehiro]

• If we get full BTC refund I am for refund.
• If we are to be paid in USD exchanged for BTC i say lets get those miners - it would be nice to have additional MPP promised modules with that.
• No idea how to approach upgrades though.

+1

Same here, specially if the MPP is applied (according on the HashFast page they say that we have to get 100% of our invest in 3 months and if it's not the case they will send as much hashing power as necessary to reach the amount).

[beavertank]

Same here, specially if the MPP is applied (according on the HashFast page they say that we have to get 100% of our invest in 3 months and if it's not the case they will send as much hashing power as necessary to reach the amount).

That's not what the MPP is. They'll send chips on boards, which will require additional hardware (i.e. $$) to get hashing, and they'll only send up to 4x the original hashing power. If it would take more than that mining power to break even in three months (and it will) we'll still only get 4x the original hashing power.

There only one right solution - get full refund in BTC

Exactly. We'll never see a return on our BTC investment, we'll be lucky to see a return on our fiat investment, and it is unreasonable and illegal for HF to try to claim anything less than an equivalent number of BTC paid is a "full refund".

[czspeedycz]

Even if we will have additional one in March, it will be worthless and neither we will reach roi for the first one in Janury. So the refund is still better choice.

And what will be with our upgrade kits?

[Ferr]

We should sent refund request before 15 january, there is deadline in the middle of jan. Just friendly remainder Waldo  

[piecinitup]

We should sent refund request before 15 january, there is deadline in the middle of jan. Just friendly remainder Waldo  

He already sent it.

[filharvey]

We should sent refund request before 15 january, there is deadline in the middle of jan. Just friendly remainder Waldo  

He already sent it.

He sent a request yes, but was it in the format they wanted?
Are they going to accept it in the current format in which sen?
Did he confirm that he was willing to take $ value in BTC and BTC back? And hence give up all requirements for us to be paid back in BTC.
If so, when was that put to us for a proper vote?

Phil

[Ferr]

We should sent refund request before 15 january, there is deadline in the middle of jan. Just friendly remainder Waldo  

He already sent it.

Oh thanks, possibly I missed that one

We should sent refund request before 15 january, there is deadline in the middle of jan. Just friendly remainder Waldo  

He already sent it.

He sent a request yes, but was it in the format they wanted?
Are they going to accept it in the current format in which sen?
Did he confirm that he was willing to take $ value in BTC and BTC back? And hence give up all requirements for us to be paid back in BTC.
If so, when was that put to us for a proper vote?

Phil

Yeah, it's a right questions. Also there is no information about upgrade kits, they are also could be refunded (is this batch1?)

[floatyfish]

Apparently they started shipping today, there's a guy in the main Hashfast thread who got his miners. WH, did you receive any tracking #'s?

[beavertank]

Apparently they started shipping today, there's a guy in the main Hashfast thread who got his miners. WH, did you receive any tracking #'s?

The terms of sale specify delivery by Dec. 31. Even if he got a tracking number, we're still entitled to a full refund (as in the same number of BTC we paid) even if he got a tracking number.

...it's looking more and more like it'll take legal action to make them honor their obligations, though. Scummy assholes.

[thomas_s]

Apparently they started shipping today, there's a guy in the main Hashfast thread who got his miners. WH, did you receive any tracking #'s?

The terms of sale specify delivery by Dec. 31. Even if he got a tracking number, we're still entitled to a full refund (as in the same number of BTC we paid) even if he got a tracking number.

...it's looking more and more like it'll take legal action to make them honor their obligations, though. Scummy assholes.

It says delivery EXWORKS which means tendered to the shipper. To get in more detail then they shouldn't be using their own FedEx account it should be the buyers arrangement for shipping.

[beavertank]

One of the main HF threads contained a copy-pasted email from HF informing the poster that reliability issues with PCBs means mass production hasn't started and Batch 1 customers can either accept Rev. 0 hardware now (with reliability issues), Rev. 2 hardware in about a month, or ask for a refund as long as they do so within the next ten days.

It then links to a form they want you to use for the refund request which requires you to agree to accept the USD refund none of us want.

Others in that thread are suggesting sending back a request for a refund with your own form, acknowledging that per the original and still-in-effect Terms of Sale you'll be taking full refund of the original number of BTC you paid and that you request that refund. I would ask that Waldo do this, and do it very soon.

At least one person in the HF thread has claimed to get confirmation from HF that they'll honor the original ToS and pay back the full BTC amount, although this is the internet, so you can take that claim with a grain of salt.

[floatyfish]

One of the main HF threads contained a copy-pasted email from HF informing the poster that reliability issues with PCBs means mass production hasn't started and Batch 1 customers can either accept Rev. 0 hardware now (with reliability issues), Rev. 2 hardware in about a month, or ask for a refund as long as they do so within the next ten days.

It then links to a form they want you to use for the refund request which requires you to agree to accept the USD refund none of us want.

Others in that thread are suggesting sending back a request for a refund with your own form, acknowledging that per the original and still-in-effect Terms of Sale you'll be taking full refund of the original number of BTC you paid and that you request that refund. I would ask that Waldo do this, and do it very soon.

At least one person in the HF thread has claimed to get confirmation from HF that they'll honor the original ToS and pay back the full BTC amount, although this is the internet, so you can take that claim with a grain of salt.

While I totally think Waldo should do this, we did enter this as a group buy, which means that we should get the group's permission to do this. Waldo, could you make a Google Form that could be posted here for everyone to do? The options could be something like this:

• Accept the miners
• Wait for batch 2
• Submit for a refund with a customized form that demands that the refund be the original amount of BTC

There should be a deadline on this survey (say, close in 4 days) after which the results will be tallied and we'll go from there. In order to make sure the answers are valid, each submitter should be asked to say how many shares they have and what their payout address is.

[itod]

Others in that thread are suggesting sending back a request for a refund with your own form, acknowledging that per the original and still-in-effect Terms of Sale you'll be taking full refund of the original number of BTC you paid and that you request that refund. I would ask that Waldo do this, and do it very soon.

At least one person in the HF thread has claimed to get confirmation from HF that they'll honor the original ToS and pay back the full BTC amount, although this is the internet, so you can take that claim with a grain of salt.

I would ask that Waldo do the opposite. That's insane what you are suggesting, any refund request will be gladly accepted by HashFast, but they are the ones who dictate the amount of BTC they will send back to us. How are you going to make them pay the full amount? Who is going to pay for the lawyers? If we do what you are suggesting (customized refund request) we are fucked! They will send partial refund and scratch us of the customers list, resell our miners to somebody else, this time without the obligation to send the MPP.

HashFast wants us to do what you are suggesting, and with our custom refund request we give them the document that we officially requested the refund. Are we that stupid?

Your last paragraph is also wrong. Nobody, I repeat - not a single person, got the fresh confirmation to get the full BTC refund. Quite the opposite, everybody got the confirmation there are only gonna be partial refunds. The famous email you are referring to is from August, and has nothing to do with current official HashFast refund policy.

[AstralWonder]

Others in that thread are suggesting sending back a request for a refund with your own form, acknowledging that per the original and still-in-effect Terms of Sale you'll be taking full refund of the original number of BTC you paid and that you request that refund. I would ask that Waldo do this, and do it very soon.

At least one person in the HF thread has claimed to get confirmation from HF that they'll honor the original ToS and pay back the full BTC amount, although this is the internet, so you can take that claim with a grain of salt.

I would ask that Waldo do the opposite. That's insane what you are suggesting, any refund request will be gladly accepted by HashFast, but they are the ones who dictate the amount of BTC they will send back to us. How are you going to make them pay the full amount? Who is going to pay for the lawyers? If we do what you are suggesting (customized refund request) we are fucked! They will send partial refund and scratch us of the customers list, resell our miners to somebody else, this time without the obligation to send the MPP.

HashFast wants us to do what you are suggesting, and with our custom refund request we give them the document that we officially requested the refund. Are we that stupid?

Your last paragraph is also wrong. Nobody, I repeat - not a single person, got the fresh confirmation to get the full BTC refund. Quite the opposite, everybody got the confirmation there are only gonna be partial refunds. The famous email you are referring to is from August, and has nothing to do with current official HashFast refund policy.

A full refund is preferred and we should get one. The TOS we agreed to allows us the full refund.

If they send us 1 btc back instead of 60 btc, that's pretty much the same as sending 0 btc back instead of 60 btc. By your logic, they can refund us 0 btc and we won't do anything about it.

[itod]

If they send us 1 btc back instead of 60 btc, that's pretty much the same as sending 0 btc back instead of 60 btc. By your logic, they can refund us 0 btc and we won't do anything about it.

No, it's different if they send us 1 BTC and 8 BTC. They can not justify sending 1 BTC because there is no logic behind it, so they will send us 8 BTC per machine claiming it is the BTC equivalent of the US$ amount that we paid. I'm almost certain they would send us happily 8 BTC if we provide them refund request and BTC address to receive the funds.

Additional problem is we can not be certain that HashFast will survive as a company, they have serious troubles, obviously incompetent to ship anything. This looks much worse day by day, so maybe having some legal course of action is the best we can do right now. We need an advice of a lawyer, maybe Waldo should collect some lawyer fund from all of us, and find a good lawyer ASAP.

[floatyfish]

This guy sent a refund notice to Hashfast using modified terms that he introduced, and while I doubt this will go anywhere, I think it's worth following just in case he does get somewhere:

Are you modifying their refund request form or filling it out but putting the btc value instead of USD. I refuse to sing the refund form they sent as long as it contains the " at the exchange rate quoted by Bitstamp on the day HashFast provides such Bitcoins" clause.

I'm not touching that refund form with a 10 foot pole. The original contract is clear and valid. No need to voluntary waive your rights.

I simply sent them my own notice of failure and cancellation & refund letters. Here are some snapshots of the scans: